I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

Originally posted by SatansGift
God has no place in the pledge of allegiance. This country was founded to cater to all religions and no religion. It's not right to force people to say "One nation under God" when there are many who don't believe in said God. Our children everyday are forced to say this pledge in public schools where many of those children come from families who practice Paganism, Satanism, Buddhism, Hindu, Islam, or are atheists. Personally myself I have educated my children to understand, organized religion as a whole, is destroying our society. We as a people can't evolve into a service to others mindset if we keep allowing religion of any form to have a place in our public schools. For example say you are in a second grade classroom and the majority of children in the class are raised a Christian and you have one Muslim child in the class. If after the pledge is said, the Muslim student, tells a class mate he believes in Allah. Odds are as that news spreads around the classroom many of his classmates will ostracize him for his beliefs. While most of you will say that won't happen, I have personally watched that happen in a second grade classroom this past school year.

It says "Under God" not Jesus... the muslim kid can say God can't he? To him/her it could stand for allah.

reply to post by newcovenant


I'm an atheist.
But I would like "under God" to remain in the pledge.
Because of tradition.

I don't agree to have kids saying the pledge at school though.
I get a feeling of Nazi-Germany's Hitlerjugend when I see that.

reply to post by newcovenant



You are just fishing for attention and multiple replies. Talk to your momma if you are not getting enough attention.

Originally posted by Kingbreaker
My question is why does every little thing in this country have to be knit-picked

I think you mean "nit picked".

Anyway, I think it's a good exercise to periodically examine things like this. If not good, at least harmless. I'm a child of the 50s & 60s and we said the Pledge every morning in school. It's a respect thing, and I see nothing wrong with promoting it, but I'd certainly have a problem with making it mandatory.

The way I've always seen it, it's what it says it is. A pledge of allegiance. The flag is the symbol used, the actual pledge is to the nation. One indivisible nation. Which was founded under God, whether you agree with that, or not. Think about that before you're quick to dismiss the importance of that. The Declaration clearly states our rights are inalienable and endowed by our Creator. Says nothing about any particular sect, denomination or creed. Christianity never enters into it.

The alternative is that they were made up by men, and what is granted by Man can be revoked by Man. Do you want those inalienable rights to be endowed by Man and subject to recall? I don't. Even if you believe with all your might that there is no God, for this purpose you're better off if most of the whoevers in charge believes, or acts as though, your basic human rights come from somewhere other than some guys deciding what your basic rights ought to be.

So the pledge is allegiance to a single unified nation, founded under God, with liberty and justice, for all. That's the ideal and the one to bear in mind when taking the pledge. Not allegiance to the suits in DC, not to the international financiers. To the nation, with an ideal of a single nation whose rights are inalienable, meaning cannot be taken away. That's bad? I think, when saying the pledge you're also committing to seeing to it that the country adheres to those ideals as much as possible, and in the event we go off course, you've pledged to work for correction.

Now if I, as a benevolent dictator/philosopher king wanted to create a pledge that was in the best interests of the citizenry, I don't think I could create a better one. And if I was a venal politician or conscienceless corporatist, it's the last thing I'd want to hear the citizenry pledging. No, if there's a malevolent "Them" out there, they don't mind your saying the pledge, but they sure as hell don't want you thinking too much about it.

One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. That's the country I pledge to. That's the country I aspire to have. Put God in the pledge, or take it out individually, as you see fit. It depends upon where you want to put your faith and trust.

Hey, just opinion. Say it, or don't.

reply to post by shadowx089


I say this with utter seriousness. But...



Wut.

personally i think the USA is the most socially backward nation in the western world. Its not surprising they have a bit of brainwashing for kids in school. I don't know of any other western nation who has one.

as for God in the pledge well i thought the whole point of the pledge (indivisible) was to make everyone feel together. Adding God takes that away for people of other religions or athiests

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by AzureSky
Athiests just need to stop taking everything as a personal shot at what they believe in. Who gives a damn, who or what someone believes in.

Use some common sense. Let people display what they want to display, they do it for a reason other than to piss atheists off. So don't take it personally and we'll all be a lot happier.

This is a very good point.
People do not do this to be offensive and so I think the burden of proving the offense should be on the offended. How are you injured? I would ask.

Well I guess what you are saying is that you wouldn't care if it were taken out.
Amirite?

reply to post by newcovenant
I look at it this way, "Say the pledge if you want, the way you want." After all, the last time I checked, this is still America and you still have the freedom of speech, so use it!

If we really want to say the pledge as written we shouldn't be saying the "under God" clause anyway.
That was added in 1954, though I'm sure someone has already pointed that out.
I still think the best comment was get rid of the whole thing altogether.
I'm not a fan of pledging allegiance to symbols, I'd pledge allegiance to the Constitution, as the foundation of our Republic, but not to the flag... it's become a football and a convenient tool for 'tools' trying to ensure us all they are working in the best interests of the country (that'd be us) and all to often that just isn't the case.

"Under God" bothers me because of my concern for the children. However, I realized it could be a tool to show my daughter one way she is being manipulated and indoctrinated on a daily basis. This is a good foundation for showing her other ways and for her to discover how she and her peers are being controlled. I've also taught her to be vocal about deception so she can attempt to rescue others. This has been going on for years, so now she's an 11 year old skeptic.

One of her favorite games is Hive. I noticed some errors she was making that prevented her from beating me. For one game, I decided to show her her errors. She thought I was trying to talk her into losing and said I was using mind control on her . I had to clarify, "Yes, your opponent is trying to win at all costs, but some really do want to teach you."

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by newcovenant

 

The ``pledge`` should be thrown out altogether.

Why do people feel the need to pledge allegiance to a flag anyway?

edit on 26-6-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)

And isn't that sort of like practicing idolatry? To a flag/republic?

Since this nation claims to have separation of church and state the phrase doesn't belong there.

When you get to the part in the pledge where you would say "under God", then don't say it. It's OK to skip that part if you personally don't believe in God. To change the wording of it to appease a small minority of people in the interest of political correctness is wrong. Besides, most Atheists would say that we live in a Democracy (I don't think so, because we were founded as a Republic), but if you are an Atheist that believes in Democracy then why don't we put it to a vote. Let all of America vote on whether or not "under God" should be removed from the pledge. You would find that the vast majority of Americans would want to keep it, because the vast majority of Americans believe in God. Atheists know this is true, which is why they look to our Progressive and Godless government to fix it for them, even though the vast majority of Atheists claim to believe in Freedom and Democracy. I guess that's only when the public agrees with them, because any other time they have no problem with Government forcing the majority to go along.

Thomas Jefferson was a deeply religious man, but he wrote:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

Case closed.

reply to post by daggyz


Dude, I'm sorry if you see that as ignorant, but..

I don't believe in evolution. So why do they still teach it to my kids at school?

Is this directed at my post? I didn't even touch evolution, nor do I promote its teaching to the young, like religion it is something that should be left for a someone to discover on their own, should they feel that desire.

I don't believe there isn't a God, so why should I let people take God out of the pledge?



You see? .....No you probably don't!

Well we're both seem-ably on the same page there, but what I'm saying is, that there are those that do not. As a nation that represents 'freeman' you would think one might be try to get past the beliefs of one man, and embrace the beliefs of the all (or we can allow things like religion to fall out of our legislative process all together),

Maybe I don't, but what I do see, is how religion continues to be divisive, which I think comes back to the major point of discussion here.

and as for...

How ignorant. The Soviet Union eliminated God and they were a non violent nation weren't they. (yeah right!) How many millions disappeared under Communism that actually persected religions?

You are very very ignorant in your statement. Man is essentially evil without God as the above proves.

God isn't the problem, it's man. Where did God come into the first world war? Or the second?. Oh.. how about Vietnam, that was religiously instigated wasn;t it? Nope!

very ignorant statement

There is no love lost between the Soviet state and myself, I think they did a hell of a job in tarnishing the world on even the thought of communism. And I am not debating their disgusting disregard for human life and their rights.

Ignorance? Man is evil without a God? Please, yes there are evil men, but there are evil men with God, just as there are righteous men without God. That is a very sweeping statement sir.

As is that there aren't wars waged over religion lol.. World War 2, even if lies, had some sort of religious undertones, don'tcha think? and I'd say there is enough going on in the world the past decade or so to suggest a deepening divide between the world of Judeo-Christians and their Muslim brothers and sisters, is God in play there? (even if it is the same God)

Personally I think I have a pretty broad look at the situation.
Deny Ignorance
Peace

As I see it religion is completely misunderstood these days. Originally it was a higher multidimensional science and everyone believed in that science because they all had alot of virtue(a white substance in another dimension) and they all could use their third eye and hence had no doubts about God´s existence sincethey could enter into other dimensions during dreams and meditation/prayer.

But since people reincarnate over and over and tend to do bad deeds their virtue was depleted and their black karma was increased as they did more and more bad deeds in each lifetime. In addition modern society became ever more materialistic and science took over as modern people´s religion and created an enormous amount of attachments to material stuff, jealousy, gadgets, desires and comfort etc etc.


In the end we are standing here today when few people believe in anything but their next gadget, finding a new girlfriend or how to become rich and famous. People fight with everyone over petty gains and have no meaning at all with their lives, just waiting for death.

On the other hand, let us for a moment imagine Gods do exist in higher dimensions and that they plan to rectify this place. How would Gods do it?

Gods would probably send down their best man and spread his spiritual teachings across the world and try to save as many kindhearted people as possible, then by supernormal means weed out the wicked people who are beyond hope of saving. Of course they would also let very good people cultivate up and return to the Godhood they originally came from.

In fact, anyone with an open mind and a belief in a multidimensional universe will investigate truth by himself. What is 50 years of atheism compared to 5000 years of God-belief? Were you so stupid in your last lifetime and so clever in this lifetime?...

In my case I tried the Falun Dafa exercises, I read the book Zhuan Falun(in my book signature below) and then, after 36 years of sufferingI did not really understand that I was suffering at the time) I knew the purpose of my life, finally. And now there is a Great Judgment coming up in a few years after all the "natural" catastrophes have passed that Gods will send at us. The solution to eternal survival(not flesh body, the main spirit) is extremely simple and prophesied in a multitude of prophecies.

Just say "Falun Dafa is good" with belief will be enough, also be kindhearted to other people, because that is the nature of this universe. That is why 100 million Chinese started practicing Dafa in 7 years before the Communists banned it.

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.


/Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance is good, Falun Dafa is good

having 6 year olds memorize the pledge allegiance is brain washing pure and simple. it should be thrown out all together.


BRAIN WASHING

Why are some atehist down right intolerate and realy plain old stupid over the subject of faith.This stuff just gets dumber and dumber and dumber.The people in the bible had faith even when they claimed the miracles and claimed they eyewitenssed the miracles Jesus did with healing people they still only had FAITH.

Because other people do, and the USA, like it or not, was founded on religious principles.

If you don't like it, move.

Originally posted by MachiventaMelchizedek
having 6 year olds memorize the pledge allegiance is brain washing pure and simple. it should be thrown out all together.


BRAIN WASHING

Because a total collpase of something called respect will be gone and not understanding the true nature of why governments exist and have an allegiance.Some people do not live in the real world.Freedom like the kind America has is very rare to even happen through out hsitory.We take in America for granted badly,we seem to forget how good we have it.