The United States was not founded in Christianity? I beg to differ.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
No. I'm sorry, but a Christian deist is impossible.

Thank you. I read that and went "WHAT?!!!!!

Educate yourself

Hey! Anyone can create and idea on an already existing idea.

But NO! True Deism can not be Christian Deism. I don't care how many website links you post.

You can't be that dense, Annee.

Christian Deism is at least 400 years old. There is factual proof of such.

How wonderful of you to admit that you are ignorant and will accept no proofs, though. Thanks for the heads up on something your opponents already knew.

reply to post by Annee


So prove to me the influence of Solon the Athenian being used in the founding documents.

My point is quite simple: Being able to pick verses out of the Bible that seem to relate to certain parts of our government does not automatically imply that the U.S. was based on Christian anything. One could probably cherry pick verses from just about any religious text (and likely some non-religious texts) and do the same thing.

Also, I acknowledge that the Constitution does seem to acknowledge some kind of higher being. This being said, acknowledging a creator does not automatically mean that it is the Christian version of God. Other religious persuasions hold the concept of a creator as well. I can accept that the nation was founded with a distinct Theistic bent, but I see nothing beyond that.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


IMO - just because it says "God" in it, doesn't mean it's Christian. If they were running around throwing Jesus's name around, then maybe you'd have something there. Otherwise... God is just... well - God. He doesn't just belong to Christianity...

Besides, the whole point was that there was to be no established religion for the country, no theocracy. So.. yeah. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


A Christian deist, in the sense you're proposing it, is ridiculous and impossible. They are not looking for the Christian deity, they're merely culturally Christian. Jefferson, with his edit of the New Testament, removes the supernatural aspects and puts forth Jesus as a moral teacher (mentioned in your 'educate yourself' link to wikipedia), but he sees nothing of the Christian deity in the universe.

To say there are Christian deists is to say there are Jewish atheists, it's a cultural issue.

Originally posted by miniatus
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

I am also curious as to what your point is?

My point is that the US was founded in Christianity. That should be quite obvious.

while I believe you're entirely wrong in what you're suggesting

WHat you believe and what factual evidence is given are two different things.

You can have your opinion, but your opinion can be wrong.

and seem to be injecting your own beliefs, especially in the 1st amendment..

I have already proven with the Bible that the 1st Amendment and Christianity are compatible.

what if you were right?

Than I am right, and history can stop being re-written. Furthermore, we get to deny ignorance.

what would that mean?

That the US was founded in Christianity

you want everyone to adopt Christianity now?

Nope. Everyone is free to make their own choices.

we now are an official Christian country?

Nope. 1st Amendment. No state religion.

so what of our populous of Muslims or any other religion? ( or non religion ) have they suddenly lost their right of religious freedom? What would you do to them?

Nothing. That would not happen. 1st Amendment.

Are you going to suggest that I as a non-religious person now have to pray to your God?

YOu are free to make your own choices, Biblically and Constitutionally.

You're way off base if you think our founders intended for any of that to happen.. any of it... so, then what?

I don't, and your whoe spiel was putting words in my mouth.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by starwarsisreal

 

That does not negate the fact that Biblical portions and Christianity (which Deism is an offshoot of) did not play a heavy role in the formation of our Republic.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Are you confused or am I confused? I'm sure your opening post mentioned the Christian foundations of the U.S.A. and now you're saying that they did not play a heavy role.

Personally I think you're pissing in the wind trying to scrap together a thesis that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, no matter how much you wish it does.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Annee

 

So prove to me the influence of Solon the Athenian being used in the founding documents.

Its not something I have to prove. The point of Solon's 10 commandments - - was to show that these type principles did not start with Christianity.

They did not have TV or Internet - - what did they do? They read a lot. They discussed ideas and philosophy.

Their social lives were probably hanging out in men's clubs - - - and social events. Considering Christianity was the dominant religion in the area - - - it is only understandable that they came in contact with it and discussed it.

That does not exclude other ideas/concepts/beliefs/philosophies.

You can not prove the exclusivity of the influence of Christianity.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Anyone that will take the time to read the Federist Papers will easily see how much our founding fathers DID base our nation on Christianity.

Young liberals get on these boards and love flame wars.As the writter openly admits at the start of the post. Some real history lessons are in order. READ the federlist papers!!!!! It will convince you or you'll deney them. Either way most educated adults realize that this nation was indeed founded on Christianity. I'm sure you'll disagree. I accept that. God bless you.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by miniatus
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

I am also curious as to what your point is?

My point is that the US was founded in Christianity. That should be quite obvious.

That is not a point. It's an open-ended argument. There is no point to be made here apparently, so the argument is useless.

Human ethics are just that, human; not biblical. If you need to resort to a book to reassure you of what is right and wrong, you have serious issues. The United States was founded on practical ethics and a free market, the only thing related to religion that pertains to this is the founders' wishes for the Church not to dictate the Law.

But again, I'm just wasting my time even arguing about this... because it's not like there is a point to argue against... just an argument (aka waste of time, because it's not going anywhere).

Originally posted by Slawth
Refer to my sig.

No man can truly claim he knows the will of god.

He doesn't have to in order to make a nation off those beliefs.

i think it maters NOT on what America was founded on --- or what America was or what any country, gov., corporation, religion, sect, group or person was!

WHY? Because is it not more important to RISE UP anyway? Rise to Where Mankind SHOULD BE --- Not what he is!

We (mankind) have the brains, bodies and souls to "KNOW Right From Wrong", Create great things (not just "stuff" to amuse or entertain), Feed ALL, Cloth All, Give Good Health To ALL, Educate ALL, Empower ALL with EQUALITY ---

We must stop bickering over what is or what was --- JUST MOVE FORWARD --- Anything less just wastes TIME - wastes RESOURCES - Makes for infighting, disagreements and SEPARATES US ALL!

WE MUST UNITE! The past is just that! RISE UP! BECOME MORE THAN part of the problem!

Who cares what we were! I only care WHERE WE GO FROM HERE!!!!!!!

Write me if you agree! Let Us UNITE for the good of ALL!

WarmHeartedWorld.wordpress.com...
[email protected]

reply to post by Moby76065


The federalist papers wanted a powerful central government, with a central bank system with god in the mix. Much like what we have today.

The federalist papers first came out in 1787 11 years after the fact.

BTW the Word God doesn't appear in the Constitution of the United States of America.....

Edit Like others have said, genocide, alcohol, tobacco, and guns, slavery, no rights for women

Jesus said You will know them by there fruits....

I have been observing this site for about 3 months and enjoy it very much. I hesitated to create an account, not wanting to give out personal info....but its not like they dont already know. I have read daily most of the post and many interest me and dont really know why I picked this one to start. I just dont understand why christians would want to associate their religion with the people who created this nation. Your basically putting Gods stamp of approval on genocide, slavery and many generations of gullable people. So because its a fact that some of the people escaped religious persecution and had good ideas for how to live, that means a whole bunch more people didnt come at the same time and do the exact opposite?

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
the founding fathers are deists. They believe that God Exists but only he turns a blind eye toward our world,

No they weren't. A few were, but there were many preachers, priests and devout Christians who helped found this nation. The idea that they were ALL deists is absurd and not found to be historically accurate when one reviews the writings of these men from their time.

Here is the TRUTH - the actual words of The Founding Fathers concerning religion...

www.sullivan-county.com...

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
the founding fathers are deists. They believe that God Exists but only he turns a blind eye toward our world,

No they weren't. A few were, but there were many preachers, priests and devout Christians who helped found this nation. The idea that they were ALL deists is absurd and not found to be historically accurate when one reviews the writings of these men from their time.

Who were the Founding Fathers?

And what were their beliefs?

reply to post by Annee


This site makes good use of original sources:

www.faithofourfathers.net...

Enjoy.

Originally posted by TheFlash
Here is the TRUTH - the actual words of The Founding Fathers concerning religion...

www.sullivan-county.com...

It would seem to me after reading several sites - - - most were overall Independent in their God thinking - - under the umbrella of Deist.

They accepted what they considered worthy from Christianity and denounced the rest. I expect they did the same with any ideas/beliefs presented to them.

There is no exclusivity of Christianity as far as I can tell.

Only talking about the Founding Fathers - - not everyone.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Annee

 

This site makes good use of original sources:

www.faithofourfathers.net...

Enjoy.

That is a Christian based site.

Can't accept that.