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Originally posted by ToneDeaf
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
God is the sovereign authority. Not government.
Try and tell that to them (govt.) and see how far you get;
Next time the government comes to collect your taxes
tell them just how you feel,
in that they are not the sovereign authority (Lol)
As for God creating democracy, legislating abortion and
gay marriages, well that's a new one.
Originally posted by DJW001
. . .
At best, you have made the case that some of the founders believed in some sort of deity.Your claim, however, is that the nation was founded on Christianity. The distinguishing characteristic of Christianity is not belief in a creator, but in a savior. Please indicate which part of the Constitution mandates the acceptance of Jesus Christ in order to achieve salvation. Haven't you ever wondered why the Declaration of Independence didn't begin: In Congress, July 4th, in the year of Our Lord, 1776?
Originally posted by Kryties
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Freedom of Religion:
But Lemon, isn't freedom of religion contrary to Christian dogma? NEGATIVE! In Matthew 19:16-23, the rich young ruler comes to Jesus. After a brief conversation, the young man “went away sorrowful,” choosing not to follow Christ. The salient point here is that Jesus let him go. God does not “force” belief in Him. Faith is commanded but never coerced. In Matthew 23:37, Jesus expresses His desire to gather the children of Jerusalem to Himself, but they “were not willing.” If God gives men the freedom to choose or to reject Him, then so should we.
Pity that isn't practiced in real life.
As far as I'm concerned the whole premise of the U.S. was 'Freedom'. By stating that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation you are contradicting this premise no matter what religious rhetoric or mumbo-jumbo you come up with to explain it away.
Originally posted by totalmetal
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
Look guy if you want to cherry pick lines from the old testament and grant them authority then maybe you should just give the entire old testament authority so we can go back to stoning people for adultery and for disobeying their parents.
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
I am not stating that that it was founded as a Christian nation. I am saying that it was based on Biblical Christian beliefs (and not right wing Christianity, which is what we have today.)
The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity
Moreover, his "Notes on Religion," nine documents Jefferson wrote in 1776, are "very orthodox statements about the inspiration of Scripture and Jesus as the Christ," according to Mark Beliles, a Providence Foundation scholar and author of an enlightening essay on Jefferson's religious life... Jefferson's outlook on religion and government is more fully revealed in another 1802 letter in which he wrote that he did not want his administration to be a "government without religion," but one that would "strengthen … religious freedom."
Originally posted by JeshurunAndronicus
I don't mean to support the claim that the United States was founded upon Christianity but that they weren't opposed to it as some others may claim.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Beg to differ? Well, you're wrong then.
Knowing your posts, the exact opposite is contained in your posts.
This idea became mainstream around 1776 and then faded out due to revivalism that spread throughout the US periodically. Many of the founders were deists, one may have been an atheist (Franklin).
I'm sorry, but which God do you mean? That's my objection. There is no objective evidence of this deity.
Also, were a deity mentioned, how would you make it the theistic deity as opposed to the deistic deity?
None of that ever happened, please bone up on the last 150 years of science.
Eh, fornicate it. You aren't here to talk, your post is ramblingly long, and it contains Bible quotes. You don't quote a single instance of anything in the early history of the USA, yet you quote the Bible. That's just idiotic.
Here's my entire counter-argument against you:
America is not a Christian nation. It's explicitly stated within US law; in a treaty written in 1796
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
I think people in 1796 had a pretty damn good idea on how the nation was founded. Since I have a matter of approved legislation which actively declares that the USA was no founded on Christianity less than ten years after the ratification of the Constitution....I win. You lose.
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The OP is the epitome of scraping the bottom of the barrel to make an incorrect statement somehow true.
Feel free to show me ANY christianity in the Constitution or even the Declaration of Independence
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Originally posted by JeshurunAndronicus
I don't mean to support the claim that the United States was founded upon Christianity but that they weren't opposed to it as some others may claim.
Depends on who you choose and which quotes to mine.
Read Paine's Age Of Reason and tell me he wasn't opposed to it. Or Jefferson and Adams' private letters discussing it. It'll give you greater understanding than just mining for quotes.
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
You quoted the article, which implies that that is what you believe. Perhaps you should be more careful and say what you mean and mean what you say. :shrug:
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
By the way, there are many times more quotes showing that they were Christian Deists (not Deists as it is known today.).
Somehow, all of you are seeing the word Christian, and expecting the founding fathers to be hard right fundamentalists with fire and brimstone flying from their lips every time they open them.
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Originally posted by totalmetal
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
Look guy if you want to cherry pick lines from the old testament and grant them authority then maybe you should just give the entire old testament authority so we can go back to stoning people for adultery and for disobeying their parents.
It is not I who used them. Perhaps you should do more research into the founding fathers, Blackstone, Locke, and Montesquieu