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The United States was not founded in Christianity? I beg to differ.

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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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This post will probably incite a flame war.

But I wish to show you the TRUTH, that is if you can deny ignorance.


It is a common thought now-a-days that the United States was not founded in Christianity. I do not know when this idea became mainstream, but it is absolutely false. I will show you why.


God is the sovereign authority:

God is the sovereign authority. Not government. Not man. I can hear the appeals already. "God is not mentioned in the Constitution," they will say.

In the beginning God created mankind in His own image, placed man on the Land, gave man dominion, agency and possession. Dominion, Agency and Possession are the three elements that define Sovereignty. What God created no man has the capacity to remove. Your sovereign nature simply exists; there is nothing you can do about it. When you enter into a contract your sovereignty is not bound; quite the contrary, it is your sovereignty that binds the contract. It is your sovereign will that gives you the capacity to contract. Without sovereignty you could not enter into a valid contract. This Republic was designed, not to govern the people but to provide for a central body of government that could exercise the ability of our nation: to coin money, to regulate international and interstate traffic of goods and services, to better provide for a common defense of our nation from foreign encroachment and to secure the ability of the people to govern themselves and to protect their private land and property.

In this nation, other than God, there is no power greater than the will of the people. The sovereign people are supposed to be constitutionally secured to their right to pursue life, liberty, happiness and property to their heart's content.

So why is God not mentioned in the Constitution. Because it was understood at the time, and they did not think that the country would deny God. The Constitution was built around issues that people had with Britain. These issues were layed out in the Declaration of Independence. In that document, it says “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights . . ."

While the Declaration is not strictly what our country was founded on, it is evident in the Bill of Rights, that the Declaration was drawn on heavily. the opening of the preamble says "We the people." Where do "we the people" get authority to set up a government? From God, as stated in the Declaration.

Nation of Laws:

The Unites States was set up as a nation of laws, not a nation of men. This means that the same laws apply to everyone. Because you hold a high position does not mean that you are exempt from following the law. This is shown to be God's law as well.

Col. 3:25 - "But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons."

It is also mentioned in other places, but I expect you will do your due diligence.

Man is Sinful:

Rom 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Our founding fathers stated that all men are inherently evil. To help combat this, they imposed checks and balances in the Constitution.

Three Branches of Government:

Isaiah 33:22 - "For God is our judge (judicial), God is our lawgiver (Legislative), God is our king (executive); he will save us."

It is said that James Madison was inspired by this verse. I have not found quotes, but I have not found evidence to the contrary either.

Freedom of Religion:

But Lemon, isn't freedom of religion contrary to Christian dogma? NEGATIVE! In Matthew 19:16-23, the rich young ruler comes to Jesus. After a brief conversation, the young man “went away sorrowful,” choosing not to follow Christ. The salient point here is that Jesus let him go. God does not “force” belief in Him. Faith is commanded but never coerced. In Matthew 23:37, Jesus expresses His desire to gather the children of Jerusalem to Himself, but they “were not willing.” If God gives men the freedom to choose or to reject Him, then so should we.

Republic Form of Government:

Deut 1:13 - "Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.”

2 Kings 14:21 - "Then all the people of Judah took Azariah, who was sixteen years old, and made him king in place of his father Amaziah."

One of the influential books at the time of the American Revolution was a book called The Defense of Liberty Against Tyrants by Junius Brutus, who defended the republican form of civil government from the Bible. He pointed out that, although God sometimes directed His prophets to anoint His choice for the next king, no king of Israel took power until all the people of Israel, or least their representatives, elected him as king (2 Sam. 16:18): David (2 Sam. 2:4, 5:1-3); Solomon (2 Chron. 29:22-23); Rehoboam (1 Kings 12:1); Jeroboam (1 Kings 12:20); Omri (1 Kings 16:16-21); Jehoiada (2 Kings 11:12, 17, 19); Azariah (2 Kings 14:21; Uzziah (2 Chronicles 26:1); ); Jehoahaz (2 Kings 23:30). Thomas Paine, despite his later writings where he denounced the the Bible, defended the republican form of government from the Old Testament in his famous book promoting revolution against England, Common Sense.


I hope that I have helped you learn something today. Though God is not mentioned specifically in the Constitution, there is no denying that the founders had Him in mind when writing one of the world's greatest documents.


edit on 6/21/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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Refer to my sig.

No man can truly claim he knows the will of god.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 




God is the sovereign authority: God is the sovereign authority. Not government. Not man. I can hear the appeals already. "God is not mentioned in the Constitution," they will say.


I guess Nazi Germany is included?

The rest of your post? I guess that can be applied to every nation, past, present and the future.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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the founding fathers are deists. They believe that God Exists but only he turns a blind eye toward our world,



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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Reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Your post makes no sense. Please clarify.


 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by Slawth
Refer to my sig.

No man can truly claim he knows the will of god.


Oh, well I guess that makes it so oh wise one.


Lemon - great post! S&F!

There are plenty of books that illustrate the personal thoughts and written letters between the Founders as they worked through so many of the issues of their time. You can read the entries in their personal journals and see that their innermost ideas and thoughts were genuine and that they believed in a higher power. They referred to God more often as the Creator, and they respected all religions that also respected all religions and their ability to believe in their own God.

Back then, these were men of virtue, integrity and honor. Every man has a low and a high and these men were no different, yet people pick them apart without really knowing much about them and it's sad. When we are no longer virtuous people, we will no longer elect virtuous people to represent us, it's that simple. People today are more swept up with materialism and popularity than they are with the substance of an individual.

If we wonder why the country is falling apart and why our "representatives" ignore our welfare, just look at how much substance the men of old had compared to the men of today. We deserve better and I hope people wake up.

And for the Ron Paul haters - he only ran Republican so that he could get on the ballot, he knew he had no shot as an independent except to guarantee a win for Obama. Ron Paul is an old man, yes, but he is like the men of old, and I think our Founding Fathers would be proud of a man like him. He is a man of substance and I hope with every ounce of me that he becomes President of this country.... he's the only chance we've got.

~Namaste


Mod Note: Changes Coming to Conspiracies in Religion Refrain from attacking your fellow members.
edit on 6/21/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 12:33 AM
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Reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


That does not negate the fact that Biblical portions and Christianity (which Deism is an offshoot of) did not play a heavy role in the formation of our Republic.




 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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Our Founding Fathers on Christianity - - The Faith of our Founding Fathers By Dean Worbis

Anyone who tells you that the Founding Fathers were trying to create a Christian nation is either a liar or parroting what other liars told him. This is what they really had to say about Christianity.


The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based
Christianity

Thomas Jefferson
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."

Here's Thomas Paine
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."

"Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book
(the Bible)."

"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

Finally let's hear from James Madison
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

www.ecis.com...



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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This country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. The founders were not Christians, well not what christians of today would consider christian. Jefferson even made his own bible that suited him, and the use of the word/term god means nothing. It does mean a christian god, a god can anything or anyone that a person puts faith in, so the fact that the word god is used, does not mean that it is referring to the christian god.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by littletheif203
This country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. The founders were not Christians, well not what christians of today would consider christian. Jefferson even made his own bible that suited him, and the use of the word/term god means nothing. It does mean a christian god, a god can anything or anyone that a person puts faith in, so the fact that the word god is used, does not mean that it is referring to the christian god.


True. Deists do not believe in a god to worship or follow. They basically believe in a Universe Architect. In other words something or someone created all that exists - - - then walked away leaving man to build on it.

So yes - when god is used - it doesn't mean a god of worship. It means something like a Right of Man or given to man.
edit on 21-6-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:31 AM
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It has been a long time since I read about it - but I think the original people who came here for religious freedom - - were so extreme in their belief - - - they were practically thrown out of their own country to get rid of them.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:48 AM
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Reply to post by Annee
 


I have given you proof. You call me a liar. So where is your evidence that I am lying?

I can go to a website full of quotes to defend my position as well.

www.faithofourfathers.net...

The problem is that I am not saying that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, or even that the founding fathers were above reproach. I am saying that it was founded on Biblical prreproach, as I have shown.


 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by Annee
 


I have given you proof. You call me a liar. So where is your evidence that I am lying?

I can go to a website full of quotes to defend my position as well.


Excuse me? Where did I call you a liar?

No you haven't. You've interpreted from your belief.

Is the website you are using coming from a Faith Based agenda?

You are making information fit into your belief.

edit on 21-6-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:17 AM
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Reply to post by littletheif203
 


I already addressed religious freedom. Look in the OP.

There are many branches of Christianity. I agree that they were not Christian like we think of Christians today.

That does not negate the fact that our founding documents are based on Biblical ideas.

As for God not necessarily meaning the Christian God … I beg to differ. I will go deeper into that, but the following link pretty much sums up what I have to say, and it says it better than I would.:



 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:17 AM
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Reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


www.unionbaptistohio.org...


 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:25 AM
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Reply to post by Annee
 


--Anyone who tells you that the Founding Fathers were trying to create a Christian nation is either a liar or parroting what other liars told him--

So I am a liar.

And yes, I am going by belief, because I have facts that those beliefs are true. Furthermore, it is supported Biblically, by the founder's words, by the words of men that the founders studied (Blackstone, Locke, etcetera.), and by simple logic.

I have no need to use a faith based website to get my talking points. I can easily pull them out, as you did to try and refute my claims. But all that shows is a knee-jerk reaction, which is more often than not, lacking logic.


 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


Incorrect, the USA was founded by Free Masons, as all the symbolism in our nations Capital proves this. If it were founded as a Christian nation there would be Christian symbolism all over Washington.
edit on 21-6-2011 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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Reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Masonic symbolism such as … ?


 
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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 

ok


Originally posted by LDragonFire
This thread is my attempt to show that the United States of America was founded by secret societies, including the Free Masons, the Rosicrucian and basically all secret societies that exist, because IMHO all of these societies are all connected.

The idea that the USA was founded as a Christian nation is IMO a myth. All you have to do is look around at all the symbolism in the USA, our money or capital city and buildings to see who founded this nation.

Even the very layout of our capital reveals much.


Where is the evidence that this nation was founded on the Christian belief? When there is no real evidence of this anywhere to be seen.

Masonic and other secret societies symbol Everywhere.



As it is Above so it is below.

George Washington in the same pose.

I have read where these secret societies have ruled or attempted to rule for up to 6000 years. They have attempted to combine Paganism with Christianity to form a one world religion to go with a one world rule, and they still are trying to do this today, I believe the Trinity is apart of this conspiracy and just one example of their efforts.

New order of the ages, and a ancient hope fullfilled


The USA was founded by Secret Societies and Not Christianity.

Show me evidence that refutes this.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by Annee
 


--Anyone who tells you that the Founding Fathers were trying to create a Christian nation is either a liar or parroting what other liars told him--

So I am a liar.


If you had bothered to look at the article I linked - - you would have seen that statement is part of the article.





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