GREECE IS FALLING APART: Police Fire Tear Gas On Protesters, Bailout Talks "Deadlocked", Banks Dow

reply to post by cerebralassassins


Getting rid off ALL the cash would work but only temporarily.
------------------------
Greece needs a booming economy. It doesn't have one yet.
-----------------------
My advice would be to switch back to the Drachma and start printing money.
BTW, if Greece goes Mark of the Beast i predict TPTB will find a way to hide it.
Instead of 666 it could look more like Roman Numerals.
-- DCLXVI --

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

Getting rid off ALL the cash would work but only temporarily.
------------------------
Greece needs a booming economy. It doesn't have one yet.
-----------------------
My advice would be to switch back to the Drachma and start printing money.
BTW, if Greece goes Mark of the Beast i predict TPTB will find a way to hide it.
Instead of 666 it could look more like Roman Numerals.
-- DCLXVI --

edit on 17-6-2011 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)

You need to understand economics to truely grasp this. Yes, stopping debt payments and going with their own currency would be a bandaid, but only the most temporary of ones.

They need to address the root issue, their overspending. If you are given $100 dollars and told that is all you have to spend for the week, that is all you have. What countries can do however is either borrow money to allow them to spend beyond their means, or they can print more money to add to their economies. Both come with risks.

If you borrow, you eventually have to pay this money back, plus interest. Now some people will say it is criminal to charge interest, but that makes no sense to me. Think of a society that did not charge interest. People would take out huge loans, with no incentive to ever pay them back. That does not make for a self-sustaining system. Nor would any institution ever want to lend money, they would be insane to.

On the other hand, if you print money to pay for deficits, this creates inflation. Now in a country with an economy as massive as the US or China, this is sustainable to a point. But in an economy as small as Greece, this very quickly creates runaway inflation. This devalues the local currency, making it impossible for the country to ever be competitive on the world market. While you may not think they have to be competitive, keep in mind Greece also has a large trade deficit, which means many commodities are bought on the global market. IE. they are not self-sustaining.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

Getting rid off ALL the cash would work but only temporarily.
------------------------
Greece needs a booming economy. It doesn't have one yet.
-----------------------
My advice would be to switch back to the Drachma and start printing money.
BTW, if Greece goes Mark of the Beast i predict TPTB will find a way to hide it.
Instead of 666 it could look more like Roman Numerals.
-- DCLXVI --

edit on 17-6-2011 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)

You need to understand economics to truely grasp this. Yes, stopping debt payments and going with their own currency would be a bandaid, but only the most temporary of ones.

They need to address the root issue, their overspending. If you are given $100 dollars and told that is all you have to spend for the week, that is all you have. What countries can do however is either borrow money to allow them to spend beyond their means, or they can print more money to add to their economies. Both come with risks.

If you borrow, you eventually have to pay this money back, plus interest. Now some people will say it is criminal to charge interest, but that makes no sense to me. Think of a society that did not charge interest. People would take out huge loans, with no incentive to ever pay them back. That does not make for a self-sustaining system. Nor would any institution ever want to lend money, they would be insane to.

On the other hand, if you print money to pay for deficits, this creates inflation. Now in a country with an economy as massive as the US or China, this is sustainable to a point. But in an economy as small as Greece, this very quickly creates runaway inflation. This devalues the local currency, making it impossible for the country to ever be competitive on the world market. While you may not think they have to be competitive, keep in mind Greece also has a large trade deficit, which means many commodities are bought on the global market. IE. they are not self-sustaining.

I can see it happening as sure as i sit here drinking my morning coffee that when this rolls over to your nation or ours then you will re evaluate your current post.

I only have one word to add

La Rouche , excuse the hyped up title of the video as it was purposely used for obvious reason's, but the internal content is what you and many others within ats should take seriously and take it at face value.

reply to post by cerebralassassins


If you have a better economic solution for Greece I'd love to hear it. What is it that you propose?

Edit. Wow I actually watched the WW3 video! Doncha love Dick Cheney? Are you telling me you can't read between those lines? He is a Republican and Obama a democrat. Quite obvious he is scaring people into voting McCain. Nor does he offer one lick of proof of any of that.

Don't tell me that the so called British Empire doesn't realize that WW3 doesn't mean their own destruction as well.

All that was is fear mongering to get people to vote Republican. He brings up a few good points about biofuels though.

reply to post by nightbringr


Don't forget that tomorrow is another day (25th in total) that athens is again gathering to protest against the useless politicians and bankers as i am sure it will be impressive but its a general strike for 48hrs. One thing that does kinda get under my skin is regardless of all the talk and all the groups or orgs, noone them have actually simply camped outside the white house opposing measures so i guess were all good with whats going on right. Last week's protest gathered 500,000 people there, i mean what if 1,000,000 gathered outside the white house, what are they going to do, throw 1,000,000 citizens in jail for protesting outside the white house.....? I give em this, that these dudes do have balls and have a very interesting approach to pushing what they want in the direction they seek. Remember, silence is often far more effective than voicing and ranting.

As for a solution it simply isn't that cut and dry as everything has come to the point of what exactly do we want, are the bankers willing to take a blow across the chin, is germany willing to reduce its profit from the interest rates imposed, would the I.M.F. accept a cease of payment until measures can be implemented not a time frame according to the theoretical side of economics but on a pragmatic application to how the current nation is structured on its industrial, agricultural and educational system.

reply to post by cerebralassassins


The solution is simple.
---------------
Grow the economy.
Stop spending more than you have.
---------------
The problem is that the protesters are a bunch of - soiled brats - who just want more money.
You don't have the money. So what? Give us the money anyway!
---------------
It's almost as if all of the intellectuals have fled Greece and all you have left is a bunch of
immature 7 year olds .

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

The solution is simple.
---------------
Grow the economy.
Stop spending more than you have.
---------------
The problem is that the protesters are a bunch of - soiled brats - who just want more money.
You don't have the money. So what? Give us the money anyway!

---------------
It's almost as if all of the intellectuals have fled Greece and all you have left is a bunch of
immature 7 year olds .

I thought the money Greece gets goes to the Debt collectors first, not to the economic of Greece.
So who are we paying. ? The people there wont see the bail out money ever me thinks.

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

The solution is simple.
---------------
Grow the economy.
Stop spending more than you have.
---------------
The problem is that the protesters are a bunch of - soiled brats - who just want more money.
You don't have the money. So what? Give us the money anyway!

---------------
It's almost as if all of the intellectuals have fled Greece and all you have left is a bunch of
immature 7 year olds .

I thought the money Greece gets goes to the Debt collectors first, not to the economic of Greece.
So who are we paying. ? The people there wont see the bail out money ever me thinks.

Oh yes. Greece is in a band-aid mode right now.
---------------
I guess Greece will actually solve the root problems some other day.
I can see the stage is set for the Mark of the Beast 666.
Harnessing the underground economy is a real but short term solution.

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


You are right they would not, it will all go to the US banks and the EU to pay for the first bailout and to keep them from another economic crash from selling toxic trash to the Greek government in order to keep functioning, here in the US we just print money and so does the EU that is why they are still up and working, countries like Greek are not so lucky because they sold their nation already.

People ask for a solution and the only drastic one is to pull a Mexico one, see Mexico one day woke up and realized that they could no pay their debt but they had resources like oil, so they defaulted, got the scorn of the nations like the US but they did it and kept their own currency.

Greek may not have oil but they are resourceful, I say they should default and tell the US and the EU to take their dirty money and shove it and start their own currency, that will raise in value as the people support the economy within the nation like that they will become self sufficient. The government will have no other choice but to cater to the people rather than catering to major global and central banks, they are crocks and they are buying nations one debt at a time.

reply to post by marg6043


Its easy to say the EU and US are crooks, but if the Greek government didnt get itself into a financial mess in the first place, foreign states would never have bought their debt. No debt, no one to buy it.

I dont know how many times ive said this, but ill say it again. Dumping the euro and going their own way is not a realistic option for Greece. They are currently far from self-sufficient and have a massive trade deficit. Printing their own money will not work with their current financial structure. They are running large budget deficits, and in order to pay for them they would have to print money.

Now in a large economy like the US this can work to a point. In Greece, with a much smaller economy and a large trade deficit, they must purchase needed commodities on the world market. The runaway inflation that would be caused by printing money to pay for their bloated economy, where one third of Greeces citizens are employed by the government, would make purchasing needed commodities on the world market prohibitively expensive.

If you honestly see this as an option, please explain how Greece is going to purchase what they need when their money is worthless on the world market? They are NOT self-sustaining.

Their ONLY option is fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets. This will hurt the average, urban dwelling Greek citizen but is the only responsible, realistic option. Defaulting on their financial responsibilities is irresponsible and hurts countries that try to help.

reply to post by nightbringr


Who said they need the worlds markets that is what the nations citizens and working force if for, how do you think that nations became wealthy like the US, they exploited their own resources America no long time ago was resourceful, industrial and productive, their major consumer was their own people, globalization and the so call modern worlds markets has taken away our nations resources and sold to the highest bidder for profit, do you think America is doing great, no so, we are in the verge of collapse and the only thing that is keeping the debtors away is that we produce oil and print our own money, US and the EU wanted to control the wealth in the world, it got greedy and now they cause the collapse of many nations, that are still running due to getting into more debt.

I been around for a long time, I remember when banks were just a novelty, debt was just for the rich to dealth with and the poor used to live of the land.

reply to post by nightbringr


Dumping the Euro and printing their own money might just give the people
of Greece a feeling of independence.
------------------
That might be the wake up call that they really need.
Just default on Friday and start over on Monday.
It would end the seemingly endless bailouts.


-----------------
The European Union can get along just fine without Greece.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Dumping the Euro and printing their own money might just give the people
of Greece a feeling of independence.
------------------
That might be the wake up call that they really need.
Just default on Friday and start over on Monday.
It would end the seemingly endless bailouts.

-----------------
The European Union can get along just fine without Greece.

If Greece gets out the Eurozone, means we write of their debt. Causing massive inflation, leading to the collapse of at least another country. Spain perhaps. After that the whole of Euro will fall and then America

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Exactly, the role of bailouts is to keep the nations and the people enslave, bailouts do not work they just go to pay for the interest of the indebted nations previous bailouts making a cycle from where the nation and its citizens could never come out free, because their nation and resources are collateral, even the unborn children like in the US we are indebted for generations to come.

All this to support the wealth of the few in the elite ranks in the world, screw them.

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours

If Greece gets out the Eurozone, means we write of their debt. Causing massive inflation, leading to the collapse of at least another country. Spain perhaps. After that the whole of Euro will fall and then America

Exactly!!!!!!!!!! the same bastard nations that are the cause of the toxic sale of crap, that is why Obama is going out of his way to get Germany to help with the bailout along with the EU, see is 3 major financial institutions link to Greece debt if Greece default so the wealth of the filthy rich in this nation will go in a smoke and we the people will not take another bailout for them.

Let Rome burn baby burn.

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Dumping the Euro and printing their own money might just give the people
of Greece a feeling of independence.
------------------
That might be the wake up call that they really need.
Just default on Friday and start over on Monday.
It would end the seemingly endless bailouts.

-----------------
The European Union can get along just fine without Greece.

If Greece gets out the Eurozone, means we write of their debt. Causing massive inflation, leading to the collapse of at least another country. Spain perhaps. After that the whole of Euro will fall and then America

I see a different ripple effect than you.
-------------
You know Europe got along just fine without the European Union for a long time.
I really don't see an end of the world scenario if Greece simply defaults on Friday
and restarts on Monday with their own Drachmas.
------------
I can see a very bright future for Greece.
They just need to calm down all the spoiled brat government employees with some
ice cream.
Just think. Next Monday could be the New Greece Independence Day !
Long live the Drachma !

reply to post by marg6043


I dont think you understand the concept of a trade deficit, or economics as a whole.

Greece is CURRENTLY not self-sustaining. Perhaps one day in the future they might be, but right now they MUST purchase commodities they do not produce in Greece.

How do you propose they pay for commodities like crude oil? While Greece has refinement capacity, they do not have domestic crude sources. This is only one small example. While one day they may be mostly sufficient, until that day they rely on trade on the world market.

Now again i tell you, printing money is not a realistic option for Greece. If they were to IMMEDIATELY balance their budget, perhaps this would work. But you and I both know that is the root issue. The government is caving to domestic pressure to default on their payments and lessen austerity messures. Printing money year after year to sustain massive budget deficits will create runaway inflation. The common Greek wants to keep spending MUCH more money than they bring in. This is unsustainable.

I encourage you to research Greeces economy and how much of a trade deficit they have and how large their budget deficit is.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Dumping the Euro and printing their own money might just give the people
of Greece a feeling of independence.
------------------
That might be the wake up call that they really need.
Just default on Friday and start over on Monday.
It would end the seemingly endless bailouts.

-----------------
The European Union can get along just fine without Greece.

This I agree with. The EU would do itself a favor to dump Greece and anyone else considering defaulting on their payments.

Dump the leeches. They are a drain on countries who try and help, like Germany. The citizens in Germany are rightfully pissed they have to pay money to help countries who overspend then hold their hands out for handouts.

No different from the average American citizen who is pissed their tax paying dollars go to bail out banks.

But yes, Tribe is right. Writing off their debt hurts other countries. Bad. Its irresponsible and selfish.

Go Greece! Stand strong and bring the Euro Zone to its demise.

This fraudulent, slave based banking system has to crumble and be replaced with an equitable system. Imo the sooner it happens the better. Yes, I know it can bring suffering during the transition, but personally I'm prepared to go through that. To continue with this system which abuses the common men and women and finances the power, wars, expoloitation and blacks ops of the few is a much, much more terrifying option.

Enough is enough.

reply to post by nightbringr


We used crude oil because it was made the only resource available to us, You know I have fate in small countries like Greece that could give a finger to big interest and start fresh, where is a will is way and I believe that the Greek people are resourceful, if the young generation can not live without their computers, ipod phones or new tech device hell they can come to the US or the EU and keep living their dreams with our fake prosperity, they need to make sure that they have good credit to be able to live the credit card dream, after all China our (comunist trade partner needs their credit money).