GREECE IS FALLING APART: Police Fire Tear Gas On Protesters, Bailout Talks "Deadlocked", Banks Dow

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


This is going to happen here if the Right is allowed to gut the U.S. Budget.

reply to post by Scytherius


The "right"?


Have you EVER taken a math class?

Do you know WHY Greece has been downgraded 8 notches below junk status? Because they cannot pay their obligations. Obligations brought on by YEARS of profligacy. If anything anyone who's willing to cut spending here should be cheered on BEFORE this comes here.

We can either take the pain now while it may still be manageable, or we can watch the country collapse like Greece.

On Thursday, the Greek Prime Minister has setup a vote of confidence in his newly created Government - read cabinet reshuffe.

If the vote fails, the Government collapses. Do not pass go, do not collect $200 billion from the IMF.

If the Greek Government collapses, I'd think the DOW would take at least a 200 point hit.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours

 

It's what they are rioting for that is the problem. They are demanding money that does not exist because they spent it all on handouts. The riots there are not for freedom or rights, they are for more candy. Hard to empathize with that. This is always the end result of to much government. Spoiled brats who want, want, want but never give.

This is what a Progressive government gives it's people. It has always been that way.

This is correct. You can't have high Government spending without high taxes, and you spend money on debt restructuring unless you raise taxes AND cut social programs at the same time.

BEWARE - until the Republicans realize that tax increases are inevitable and until Democrats realize that social program cuts are inevitable, you will continue to slide down the slope towards what Greece has become.

It might be a while away (although not far if USA doesn't raise debt ceiling), but USA is slipping down the same slope.

When the world moved away from the British Pound as a reserve currency in the late 1800's, the pound lost 90% of it's value. When the world moves away from the dollar, the trouble the USA will find itself in will make the trouble in Greece look like a drop in the ocean.

reply to post by babybunnies


I think we can avoid massive tax increases if we also cut agencies. Not just trivial spending. We'd have to. We must end our military presence in the Middle East and focus on those threats that are existential in nature. We need to take a counter terrorism approach to radical Islam rather than a military one. don't get me wrong. I'm all about killing terrorists...I just think there are better and cheaper ways to do it than sending a massive war machine half way across the world.

We also have to adjust Social Security, and despite what the left and the right may think, we need to SCRAP managed care because the system has price controls built in and we wonder why healthcare costs continue to rise exponentially year over year and programs like Medicare/Medicaid are continually and exponentially in the red.

HOWEVER, mark my words, the US congress will NOT do anything about this. They will sit on their cozy butts drinking cognac as the country falls apart around their ears. Why? Because the left and the right in this country scraped the constitution long ago, give it lip service when it is convenient, and placate the masses and keep them dumb scared and wholly depended. This wholesale paternalism practiced by the US government will be the end of us. There use to be regard for personal responsibility and a DIY attitude. Not anymore. It's all "what can the government give me, and do for me".

Soon we'll be hearing this in our country "Civil Unrest has intensified with the demise of the US Dollar"

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


TOMC be careful what you wish for. Shhh! Hear that knocking? The wolf is at the door.

Follow the money. Look closely at our financial foundations. There aren't enough fingers to plug that dike.

If you can't swim you had better learn to doggie paddle because it is getting deep and sinking fast.

Oh. You might want to brush up on your Chinese while you practice the breast stroke.

Originally posted by foreshadower99
I suggest that it's only the start of something bigger which will eventually spread
across europe and finally to the US. The economic system in which the countrys are
held together is falling apart, it cannot continue to forever feed it's self without inflation
threating to break it apart. The day banks became over powered that was the start of
world wide economic collapse allthough the BRIC won't be affected as much.

Nothing to be suprised about when everything has been expected for the last hundreds of years.

Not exactly True. If the West was to collapse it would take the rest of the world with it. BRICK nations mostly rely on exporting to the West.

Once the opposing groups in Europe come to an agreement on the direction they want to push shove and force Greece (with Sarkozy meeting Merkel tomorrow I suspect that will be this weekend) then this whole mess will calm down (market wise) and move to obscurity in the MSM as the peoples of Greece are yet again shafted by the major players in the EU and ignored by the MSM.

The market will get what it wants be it QE3 or whatever.. this seems to be the sad/corrupt system of governance now openly prevalent in the West.

Nigel Ferage EMP has just been on RT.com he summed it up for me perfectly. I really do recommend you watch him on RT.

He said that the Governments and Banks appear to be in cahoots with the police in order to maintain and protect the banks from the public, instead of letting some banks fail because of their irresponsibility and the loss of money that they should accept and take (like any other business when things go wrong).

He went on to say that countries should not be tied into a banking system that they cannot work within, especially when the banking model does not work any longer either. If more bankers loose their jobs that can't be helped and people from all other walks of life have lost their jobs already.

(That's it in a simplistic way - have a heart, I have only just worken up)

What he says is quite correct. The police and their obvious and deliberate rough tacits are being used to terrify the public into submission along with, I suspect a number of civilian dressed police within the public flying their own little false flags - you can almost pick them out at some rallies these days. We appear to have forgotten tar and feathering, pity.

If people won't go to work and keep the country's machinery going, it will inevitably bring down the government and today this has a tidal wave effect on other countries because of globalisation of business. That is the weakness of globalisation.

Iceland has baulked the bankers, Belgium is a country running quitly without a government and we all know the governments are desperately trying to make up pay to maintain a banking system or model that has clearly failed
and serves us no longer. It isn't until we face dealing with the banks and cutting them and their actions we a ll know about down to size that the situaton in Greece

Originally posted by Scytherius
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours

 

This is going to happen here if the Right is allowed to gut the U.S. Budget.

Sadly many in the U.S. cannot see it happening as they assume they are excluded from global events. A brief look at what is in my opinion very frightening as at a stroke of the pen it can become what greece has become real fast.

China's purchases of US debt rose $7.6 billion to $1,153 billion - the first month-on-month increase since its holdings reached $1,175.3 billion in October, according to the Treasury International Capital report, known as TIC. China boosted its holdings after selling most of its bonds for five straight months.

The US hit its $14.3 trillion debt limit on May 16. With the debate on raising the debt limit heating up between the White House and Congress in Washington and an Aug 2 deadline to decide on the limit looming, foreign investors of US Treasuries have been watching closely for any new development.

Outspoken Chinese economists have warned that China should stop buying US Treasuries, over worries that the US government securities will be more risky due to the nation's deficits.

The strongest remarks came from Li Daokui, an adviser to the central bank in China, who urged US politicians to assure China that its massive investments in Treasuries are safe, Reuters reported last week.

www.chinadaily.com.cn...

All conspiracy theories aside, i somehow have a feeling that all this going on with greece is merely an experiment to see how and far and wide it affects the world market. We are all very aware of what is required to kick start the global economy......and that is what i am very worried about.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Once the opposing groups in Europe come to an agreement on the direction they want to push shove and force Greece (with Sarkozy meeting Merkel tomorrow I suspect that will be this weekend) then this whole mess will calm down (market wise) and move to obscurity in the MSM as the peoples of Greece are yet again shafted by the major players in the EU and ignored by the MSM.

The market will get what it wants be it QE3 or whatever.. this seems to be the sad/corrupt system of governance now openly prevalent in the West.

As someone mentioned earlier on, it has come to the point that regardless of what those eurozone heads decide the fact remains there is simply no cash flow within greece. It has almost come to a stand still, all those people you see within the links were to my surprise ordinary people, old , young, mothers with children, simple ordinary people like the person living next door. What brought all those people together is the fact that there is simply no money circulating. The banks were handed money a good 6 months ago to keep their internal books running and were to re distribute that handout within the economy. But that never happened, this is what has happened. Banks held onto the bailouts and re-invested into foreign bonds thus creating a vacuum within the very country they reside in.

I have been to quite a few Greek islands (Crete, Kefalonia, Rhodes and Lesvos) however the only main land city i have visited was thessaloniki and i must admit the difference between the two is major. The people on the islands appear to live in a very self sufficient way, local industry such as the making of olive oil seems to be dominant and these are people who are completely uninterested about the games of bankers.

I hope all the best for the people of Greece but Athens is certainly not representative of most Greek people it would appear.

Originally posted by BLV12The Greek diaspora alone could rescue Greece. If the right circumstances existed for them to help. And we want to help more then anything right now. But our hands are tied. It's up to the Greeks in Greece to give us the chance to help them.

When Papandreou was calling upon the diaspora to re-invest into the country some of us actually did, but as you mentioned the majority are sitting back and waiting to see, but bold words require bold actions.

A friend who own's a telecommunications provider based company in cyprus has been extremely frustrated as he is trying to establish a foothold within greece but the stronghold of the market from Vodaphone and Wind have made it so that the country will not sell more cell phone licenses. So he is restricted to land lines and internet connections. As you said, there are monster investor waiting and waiting, but i guess how long does one wait for ? and yes, the volume of investors who expressed a true concern into investing within greece from the diaspora can very easily wipe out the debt within a year, but for some reason there are those in the Eurozone who see 3rd, 4th and 5 the generation diaspora as a threat to existing european traditionally based companies. From what i am aware there is one person whom we speak on a regular basis and his investment alone is tens's of mln but his advisor has mentioned that unless greece clears its laws and creates a security net for foreign investors then the motion to stock holders will never be put forward and this was the why the diaspora bonds idea never really launched as a positive idea. Everyone requires security, if they supply then many can provide the much needed stimulation and create a positive growth market thus attracting future investors.

Originally posted by aRogue
From looking at what's been going on in Greece... It seems like:

The Governments are scared of the People.

The People of Australia, America and other western countries need to take inspiration from this imo.

edit on 15-6-2011 by aRogue because: (no reason given)

im a Greek living in Australia and i also wish the people in Australia were like us Greeks and stand up for our rights.

Unfortunate the people of Australia the system has got the better of them and are very conservative. Here in Victoria since last week you can get a fine for swearing on the street even if it is not abusive just conversation with your friends.

Originally posted by gate13

Originally posted by aRogue
From looking at what's been going on in Greece... It seems like:

The Governments are scared of the People.

The People of Australia, America and other western countries need to take inspiration from this imo.

edit on 15-6-2011 by aRogue because: (no reason given)

im a Greek living in Australia and i also wish the people in Australia were like us Greeks and stand up for our rights.

Unfortunate the people of Australia the system has got the better of them and are very conservative. Here in Victoria since last week you can get a fine for swearing on the street even if it is not abusive just conversation with your friends.

Oh that is so stupid, i guess the new fine's would be "why did you fart", here is a 1k fine due to you contributing to the green house problem or better yet i wonder how much this guy would be fined in australia

Just listening to the news and perhaps in jest, but stinging nonetheless, German and European officials have spoken of Greece selling off its islands.

Originally posted by Aeonflux
Just listening to the news and perhaps in jest, but stinging nonetheless, German and European officials have spoken of Greece selling off its islands.

See there is a problem with what has been said in various papers around the world regarding the island's. People fail to understand that although the provocative articles state as much it simply cannot happen as the island's or the nations sovereignty does not belong to neither the prime minister or who ever, it belongs to the people, sure there are many wealthy russians who are dying for some islands but as i have been told several weeks ago it was put very clear within a cabinet meeting that island could be leased over long terms but cannot be sold

Just to give a quick case of how misinterpreted things are

Greek Island's for Sale

reply to post by cerebralassassins


The sad part is that seems to be true of all the banks and all the bailouts.. all the cash seems to have gone on their balance sheets and they appear to simply be sitting on the cash while the political establishment look the other way.. the shere greed within the system is disgusting.. but since when do those who hold power really care about the people!

I really do suspect Merkel and Sarkozy will come up with some kind of compromise this weekend that will suit them, the EU and the Banks while ignoring the welfare of the people they claim to be saving.. all I can say is

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

The sad part is that seems to be true of all the banks and all the bailouts.. all the cash seems to have gone on their balance sheets and they appear to simply be sitting on the cash while the political establishment look the other way.. the shere greed within the system is disgusting.. but since when do those who hold power really care about the people!

I really do suspect Merkel and Sarkozy will come up with some kind of compromise this weekend that will suit them, the EU and the Banks while ignoring the welfare of the people they claim to be saving.. all I can say is

Very true, well Sarkozy just announced a viable option for greece and we all know Merkel is the pitbull of the eurozone. Not sure if your upto date but several politicians have resigned from Pasok the leading party in power thus moving into new elections within a month. I fear that all these peaceful demonstrations could turn seriously violent and that chatter about greece leaving the eurozone might actually come true. Myself i am over here sitting tight to see what these elections will bring, will it bring reform in the manner of allowing further investors or will i simply lick my wounds and head back home.