GREECE IS FALLING APART: Police Fire Tear Gas On Protesters, Bailout Talks "Deadlocked", Banks Dow

The root of the problem is the greeks run up a gigantic overspend at the governmental level. 150% of GPD by some accounts, which they cannot pay back and can no longer even afford to service.

Locked into the euro they cannot devalue their currency and export their way to growth. Its not possible.

Complaining that the greek government (a parade of them in fact) have been criminally inept gets us nowhere. The average greek is no more a valid target of blame for his national debt than you are for yours.

Its happened. The solution for Greece is to default, withdraw from the Euro and re-introduce a much devalued Drachma. The pain of the populace will be immense but thats inevitable now either way. At least under a default they don't sell off all the national infrastructure to international carpet baggers in the process.

Despite media attempts to portray it as such its not a case of stupid greeks refusing our aid in a fit of pique. The bailout is not to protect/help the greeks. Just the Irish one wasn't to help the Irish. Its to protect those in other institutions/nations who lent them money incompetently. They shouldn't be protected. They deserve to lose their shirts. Privatising profit and socialising loss is immoral and needs to be stopped. It might as well stop here.

The shock might well collapse the Euro and lead to devaluations all around europe, its only a surprise its taken this long.

Originally posted by justwokeup
The root of the problem is the greeks run up a gigantic overspend at the governmental level. 150% of GPD by some accounts, which they cannot pay back and can no longer even afford to service.

Locked into the euro they cannot devalue their currency and export their way to growth. Its not possible.

Complaining that the greek government (a parade of them in fact) have been criminally inept gets us nowhere. The average greek is no more a valid target of blame for his national debt than you are for yours.

Its happened. The solution for Greece is to default, withdraw from the Euro and re-introduce a much devalued Drachma. The pain of the populace will be immense but thats inevitable now either way. At least under a default they don't sell off all the national infrastructure to international carpet baggers in the process.

Despite media attempts to portray it as such its not a case of stupid greeks refusing our aid in a fit of pique. The bailout is not to protect/help the greeks. Just the Irish one wasn't to help the Irish. Its to protect those in other institutions/nations who lent them money incompetently. They shouldn't be protected. They deserve to lose their shirts. Privatising profit and socialising loss is immoral and needs to be stopped. It might as well stop here.

The shock might well collapse the Euro and lead to devaluations all around europe, its only a surprise its taken this long.

I'm curious.
What is the down side for Germany if they switch back to the German Mark?
I can see an economic - BOOM - for Germany.
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However, i can see Spain pointing fingers and then burning the whole country down.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


The downside to Germany is that the 'master plan' of European integration and eventual domination and a federal europe sinks without trace and we, in Europe all become soveriegn states again....... The Euro and closer Economic collaboration was about forming a trading bloc to compete with the USA, Far East and Asia as well as South America etc etc........

Bottomline is that Europe has TOO MANY diverse opinions and traditions that any 'union' would mean a loss of national identity.... something which is becoming more obvious now....

Danger is that with the fall / demise of the Euro rises Nationalistic feelings and decisions and history taught us that casued the Second World War.............. Look back at the history of the late 20's and 30's and there are some uncanny similarities which don't bode well for all concerned !!

PDUK

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Given German exports I wonder how strong would the currency become?
It would seem to me the German economy benefits from a faltering Euro...

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

The downside to Germany is that the 'master plan' of European integration and eventual domination and a federal europe sinks without trace and we, in Europe all become soveriegn states again....... The Euro and closer Economic collaboration was about forming a trading bloc to compete with the USA, Far East and Asia as well as South America etc etc........

Bottomline is that Europe has TOO MANY diverse opinions and traditions that any 'union' would mean a loss of national identity.... something which is becoming more obvious now....

Danger is that with the fall / demise of the Euro rises Nationalistic feelings and decisions and history taught us that casued the Second World War.............. Look back at the history of the late 20's and 30's and there are some uncanny similarities which don't bode well for all concerned !!

PDUK

I see you are from the UK. You still have the British pound.
---------------
Are you saying Germany will start WW 3?

reply to post by Eurisko2012


All things being equal theres no reason a Germany or France couldn't be quite happy on their own with a new Mark and Franc.

Its the process of getting there they are afraid of. France and German banks will take a battering if the weaker states default and the market goes into meltdown. Probably require nationalisation like RBS in the UK.

Theres also the political pride associated with the Euro. Never underestimate political hubris.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Nationalism is not a good thing.

If people are ever going to come together and get past the divisions and prejudices we have, we need to start seeing ourselves as citizens of earth, not Canada, China or Serbia.

Until then, there will always be disagreements, disputes and war.

Then again, a one world government opens a whole new can of worms..................

The greek government won the no confidence vote by 152 to 143 according to Sky News.

A sad day for the Greeks.

I wonder if we are not getting to the end of experiment EU and its time we all started slowly wending our way back home. .

When you look at what is paid in to belong, then the endless stupid laws that interfere with our lives both business and personal and then the bailouts. I want to leave now.

When you look at the Greeks they are out in force, every age group there united in one cause. After its over I hope they take their Police to one side, get the thugs prosecuted and remind the lot of them they are traitors turning on their own people.

Wish you well Greece.

reply to post by Lynda101


Thank you Linda 101 and everyone else for the support you are showing us! You give us courage to keep fighting until we win! It is only fair, after all! Oh, I know it might not be an easy thing to organize, but maybe if you could make a protest in favor of Greece in your country would help us a great deal... Anyhow, Thank you all!
Greetings from Greece!