You Might Be Christian If.....

reply to post by Trueman


Do you seriously expect me to accept your premises? And to have my words adapted to these premises.

Again: What has mother earth to do with your religion (or any religion for that matter)?

Quote: ["Why is so hard for you to understand. I should charge you for lessons."]

You seem to operate from the misconception, that you are in possession of 'truth', and that disagreement with you implies incompetence. That kind of attitude is called delusions of grandeur (or megalomania).

Quote: ["The way you talk about your parents reflects a social behavior disorder."]

I can see you belong to the tactical school of theists, who suddenly have become expert psychologists or character profilers. You take evening classes?

What about some factual knowledge instead of this rhetorics. Are you guys really so hard pressed, that these meaningless maneuvers are your last resort.

Originally posted by TupacShakur

He commanded: "Kill them all. God will know his own." Nearly 20,000 were slaughtered -- many first blinded, mutilated, dragged behind horses, or used for target practice.

It's funny how many different Christian leaders are supposed to have said that! I can think of half a dozen without trying. Guys, get your story straight!

Originally posted by TupacShakur

. Executions in other countries included the burning of scientists such as mathematician-philosopher Giordano Bruno, who espoused Copernicus's theory that the planets orbit the sun.

You keep dreaming! But first, educate yourself about Giordano Bruno. I used to have nightmares about him (still do, frankly) but you can't put his ghastly fate down to religion. His death had zero to do with Copernicus and was entirely political.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Estimates of the number executed vary from 100,000 to 2 million. Whole villages were exterminated. In the first half of the 17th century, about 5,000 "witches" were put to death in the French province of Alsace, and 900 were burned in the Bavarian city of Bamberg. The witch craze was religious madness at its worst.

Problem is, that these figures are fantasy. Even the most adamant pagan nowadays is forced to admit that far from 100,000 to 2 million, the true number is maybe 10% of that, (To forestall people like Mims and A-and-A, no, that doesn't make it right - but at least, do try to have some facts in your rants...

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Yeah I'm sure thousands of people have also heard Allah, Muhammed, Vishnu, Moses, and Waheguru tell them something along the same lines

Actually no, I think you'll find that Allah (who is God) and Muhammed (who is a prophet, there's a difference that seems to escape Americans) and the others, said nothing that was remotely similar.

Vicky

reply to post by Ellie Sagan
I know what you mean, but for God you are still a Christian, no matter if you do not believe in Him (anymore).

reply to post by OldHag


You wrote:

["What do you mean with: "He has done NOTHING for us". Wasn't it enough that He died on the cross for all human being?"]

A circle-argument. Made on the ASSUMPTION, that 'original sin' doctrine is correct.

And where is 'original sin' accentuated? In pauline christianity preaching redemption doctrine.

So 'orinal sin' justifies redemption, and redemption justifies 'original sin'. It takes theist reasoning to see any sense in that.

Actually your crowd got it all wrong. The flying spaghetti monster lives here and now, attainable for anyone opening his/her heart in the proper authorized way, so he can teach as a living example, not as a dead myth.

The only condition to meet the flying spaghetti monster is some general irony. The rest of the pro-FSM argumentation is on general theist lines.

reply to post by Vicky32


From your recent post:

["Originally posted by TupacShakur
Estimates of the number executed vary from 100,000 to 2 million. Whole villages were exterminated. In the first half of the 17th century, about 5,000 "witches" were put to death in the French province of Alsace, and 900 were burned in the Bavarian city of Bamberg. The witch craze was religious madness at its worst.

Your answer:

Problem is, that these figures are fantasy. Even the most adamant pagan nowadays is forced to admit that far from 100,000 to 2 million, the true number is maybe 10% of that, (To forestall people like Mims and A-and-A, no, that doesn't make it right - but at least, do try to have some facts in your rants... "]

It's true, that the number of 'straight' cases of witch-hunts tends to be exaggerated. But there was a big grey zone of 'heresy' (which could be many things) taking its toll, e.g. the anti-medicine idea based on predestination doctrine. The result: Un-necessary deaths and suffering.

Europen 'natural medicine' is to this day practically non-existing because of that. Only a few pockets survived hidden inside the church in secretly 'heretic' monasteries.

Quote:

["Originally posted by TupacShakur
Yeah I'm sure thousands of people have also heard Allah, Muhammed, Vishnu, Moses, and Waheguru tell them something along the same lines

Your answer:

Actually no, I think you'll find that Allah (who is God) and Muhammed (who is a prophet, there's a difference that seems to escape Americans) and the others, said nothing that was remotely similar."]

Each alleged deity has his/her own brand, consequently the specifics of messages differ. But the overall idea is the same: Information and/or commands from the supernatural.

Similarity to judeaic/christian norms is not a measure-tape for validity.

reply to post by Rustami


I guess I didn't connect the dots because you using YOUR religious scripture to convince others of something is not a valid way to debate something. We are not starting at the same assumptions. You assume that bible to be true and infallible, I do not. Therefore, using it to make your argument doesn't really serve any useful purpose when you are speaking to unbelievers.

As a side note, I have experienced many great miracles and things that made my faith in Jesus stronger. I've even healed people myself. I have experienced those types of things without my faith in Him also. So the fact that you have had mystical experiences in the Christian faith does not make it proof of anything.

reply to post by OldHag


Well great then, I guess the whole free will thing is out the door! I don't want to be a Christian, but you say I am still one? That doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

So believing that wars and massacres that took place directly because of people's religious beliefs would be avoided if those religious beliefs never existed is naive?

Exactly... because that's not what caused the massacres... it was good old human fear, greed, anger, hate, lust etc...


Those things exist with or without religion...

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Rustami

 

Quite a few people have voices in their heads, and as the voices (and similar phenomena) differ considerably concerning the messages they come with, they have no value for validating anything.

Considering that you now are part of a cult worshipping the demon-lord Jahveh, your experience would most likely (if it's not mental illeness or brain-malfucntion) have come from a 'demon'.

tsk-tsk should'nt lie especially in regards to a very specific matter, lets see if you can comprehend it

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. -John8

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
-1John2

Beware of him (the Angel), and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. -Exodus23

not "voices" but A voice and not "in my head" nor was it 'I am "Jahveh"' but "I am Jesus", you can read what men write correct?

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.-Mark3

for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. -Revelation19

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first -1Thessalonians

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. -Revelation5

no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. -1Corinthians12
www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by Ellie Sagan


you know very little and are confused -I am not assuming anything but you are, I suggest you look into the term "direct revelation"! where did you get the name Jesus from and why are you using it? does love rejoice in the truth and protect? who is the God of truth? who is the Spirit of truth and what does He lead in or bring to rememberance? is what He heard from His Father important? is the gospel? was He a man raised from the dead? why are the Apostles names written on the gates to the city? who are the foolish virgins? what is the oil of the wise virgins? what is the more sure prophetic word? what was His Fathers business? have you been bought? what price? who is the body of Christ? who is the great whore? is your body your own? who has a name written no one knows but himself? whose name is the Word of God? how can others know or have known throughout history these things and grown as a body in knowledge of the truth? how is one saved and from what? whose words will never pass even if heaven and earth do? etc. etc.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his KNOWLEDGE shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. -Isaiah53

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. -Romans

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive -Ephesians

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants -Romans9

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. -John 7

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.-2Timothy3

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.-Matthew22

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. -1Peter

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. -Luke24

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. -Acts18

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. -Romans15

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith -16

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures -1 Corinthians 15

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2Timothy

these are the scriptures that testify of me-John5

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. -Apocalips22

devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture -1Timothy

reply to post by Rustami


Alright, you still aren't teaching or convincing me of anything. I almost didn't want to respond to your bunch of questions, but I wanted to say this:

By insulting my intelligence AND my mental state you have only hurt your argument more. I'm done.

reply to post by Ellie Sagan


very similar to what I thought of your first reply and why I chose to post those questions and scriptures, which obviously are all "assumptions" to you and none of which have anything "valid" for an "unbeliever" much less the "Christian" "faith" in the ressurected man "Jesus" Christ born of a woman , so why the concern now? they're just written by man right? would have done better starting with something along these lines-

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. -Jeremiah8

reply to post by Rustami


Disregarding your self-serving, self-contained circle-arguments of bible-citations (as pointed out in OP), you wrote:

["tsk-tsk should'nt lie especially in regards to a very specific matter, lets see if you can comprehend it"]

implying, that my disagreement with your claims is a matter of my non-capacity for comprehension.

Is that your measure-tape: "Disagreeing with me is a sign of intellectual shortcomings". Non-believers use rational arguments, not guessed at IQs in opposition.

and

Quote: ["not "voices" but A voice and not "in my head" nor was it 'I am "Jahveh"' but "I am Jesus", you can read what men write correct?"]

Your grammatical comments have no bearing. Several different people hear voiceS, not voice.

And have you been tested medically, to establish if your voice wasn't 'in your head'?

If it's Jahveh, Jesus, Thor, some spiritual master from the starsystem Sirius or the flying spaghetti monster is unimportant. People have all these in their heads (maybe not the FSM yet. He's a relatively new fantasy).

reply to post by bogomil
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

reply to post by Ellie Sagan
If you say that you are a Christian, it means you will give your life freely to God... or didn't you? And now you say you would not believe anymore.. it is possible... only because you had believe in His ressurection, you will live in heaven as the time being from 1Th 4:13 - 18... only from the moment that you stop believing in Him you cannot get more fruit Gal 5:22.

reply to post by Vicky32

You keep dreaming! But first, educate yourself about Giordano Bruno. I used to have nightmares about him (still do, frankly) but you can't put his ghastly fate down to religion. His death had zero to do with Copernicus and was entirely political.

What nightmares did you have about him? Was being a Copernican who actually first realized that the Sun is but one of many stars all that bad?

Now, let me point out that his charges were as follows (taken from his wiki entry which has further citations)
source

Holding opinions contrary to the Catholic Faith and speaking against it and its ministers.
Holding erroneous opinions about the Trinity, about Christ's divinity and Incarnation.
Holding erroneous opinions about Christ.
Holding erroneous opinions about Transubstantiation and Mass.
Claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity.
Believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes.
Dealing in magics and divination.
Denying the Virginity of Mary.

Now, the rest of that is religious stuff...though I guess really the first charge sort of encompasses all of the later charges. The Church thought it was bad enough to mention it and they didn't acknowledge the idea for quite a while. It did violently repress the idea of a plurality of worlds and the Copernican model, that's sort of well documented.

What did he do that was all that bad? I'm really confused by you having nightmares about him.

Also, can you provide your execution numbers? I'd just like to check out the source on it.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


And yet religion creates thought processes, biases, and moral corruption that can lead to those things very easily and has done so repeatedly through history.

Last I checked, scientists, even at their most petty and vitriolic, don't burn people at the stake.

reply to post by TupacShakur


not THE Antichrist, but you certainly serve him!!!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


What nightmares did you have about him? Was being a Copernican who actually first realized that the Sun is but one of many stars all that bad?

Now, let me point out that his charges were as follows (taken from his wiki entry which has further citations)

Believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes.
Dealing in magics and divination.
What did he do that was all that bad? I'm really confused by you having nightmares about him.

Ma dai! I know you're not stupid, so why pretend to be? My nightmares had nothing to do with being Copernican, and you know that. My nightmares are simply about that particular method of execution, and anyone who doesn't have nightmares about burning to death has no imagination.
I think you'll find that the most relevant charges against Bruno are the ones I have left in your quote above. I also have a link about Giordano Bruno (below) which gives the 'other side' (I think that's only fair!) When I googled, 7 of the top ten results were links to atheist-campaigning sites. Bruno has become a hero of yours, hey? Please note that although you'll almost certainly claim that I think otherwise, I do not think his execution was a good thing!
I am looking for some sources regarding numbers - as what I have learned came from books, and I can't link to them! (Everyone here would benefit from reading more books, and fewer websites.)
Common errors
Bruno

Those were sooo funny! Can we add our own?

You might be a Christian if:

You believe in Matthew 22:39 "Love your neighbor as you love yourself."

Wait, that wasn't funny. Hmm...oh here's one!

You believe the words of Jesus when he said, in Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Maybe not...let's see...OH! Here we go:

You believe in the words of Proverbs 22:9 "Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor."

You try to live the words of John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends."

Well, sorry, those weren't funny, or irreverent, or condescending at all. Never mind!



/TOA