Ancient Aliens Debunked?

reply to post by Toxicsurf


This is also funny but this guy in the picture.....REALLY PISSES ME OFF! I have watched a few of those Ancient Alien shows and thid guy NEVER looks at anything objectively.

Everything that he talks about is PROOF POSITIVE that E.T. did this....or E.T. did that. He looses all credibility with me.

Here is my dilemma....I know E.T. to be a reality. THIS GUY actually makes me want to forget that! LOL!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by nv4711

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by nv4711

 

i agree that it is very similar to a religion, but it is more likely than any religion

Dave, the probabilities might be just as bleak as they are for a given religion. In general, the probability goes down, the more qualifiers you add to a given problem. Probability and statistics are the favorite subject of creationists, as it seemingly allows them to challenge evolution. Perhaps you’ve heard Fred Hoyle’s “Tornado in the junk yard, assembling a Jumbo jet” comparison, which by the way is a specious sound bite.

Anyways, if you want to get an idea of the probability that the AA Hypothesis is true, highly likely, somewhat likely or, in comparison more likely than i.e. a given religion you can, without even using a calculator get an idea by looking at all the qualifiers you have to bring in. Now, of course, the important part is, you have to be as neutral as you can to come to a reasonably correct result.
For example, if you wanted to calculate the probs of “God exists” you've got 50% (Because the only other option is God does not exist) As soon as you introduce “God exist and he is omnipotent” the probs go down. Next, "God exist, he is omnipotent and he created Man”…add ."and he parted the red sea”… and so on, the probs go way down.
Now look at the AA theory. The probs of life in the Universe are very high, perhaps close to 100% (Note that it's not 50% like the God example, because we have much more information and for the very fact that we exist). Now you need higher life forms, intelligent life, intelligent life that explores space, intelligent life exploring space and being able to cross the universe… and picked Earth to visit (out of billions of other options)….and built the pyramids…and gave Pre-columbians little golden air plane models…and changed the DNA of early man…and…and…and..
I guess you see where this is going. Will your result be Zero? No, I guess not, but it will be incredibly small… but now compare your probability to “The Egyptian people had skilled mathematicians, architects and builders, and built the pyramids”…
So, I’m not sure how the probs for AA vs. religion stack up, but I have a good idea how the probs of AA vs. Humans are.

i guess what i meant was
'in my opinion it seems more likely than any religion'

reply to post by DaveNorris


Haha... Yeah, sorry I was going off a bit on a tangent. I got your point :-)

reply to post by DaveNorris


I have more respect for someone...who is just using an idea or theory....to make a statement like....E.T. was around to help our ancient relatives....than say...someone who PROFESSES....without a shred of logic.....There is no such thing as EVOLUTION and it is a THEORY not a FACT....and should not be taught in school.

First of all....not only is EVOLUTION a FACT.....but it stopped being a theory for quite some time now. 100% scientific proof?.....HUMAN GENOME PROJECT.

Not only that but the fact that Humans have been proving evolution to be a fact for millenia by doing things like...cross polinating plants as well as breeding animals....for certain desirable traits. A dog at one time was a wolf. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


u missunderstand me, i agree with what your saying. what i was saying is that they can both be taught in schools, one in science and one in religous studies

Kinda off-topic but there is a great spoof on Ancient Aliens and History Channel at the yesterdays South Park episode... pretty hilarious...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

Kudos on your extensive writing around this theory. Well laid out and very informative! You've given me a great insight around the subject. I myself was very interested when the Ancient Aliens series started, but around half the second season it became so ridiculous I just had to quit watching... At least it provided me with a lot of ancient myths and mysteries where I wasn't aware of. So the positive thing is that I'm even further down the rabbithole, I love that. Luckily I'm not a claustrophobic

In my view, AAT represents a curious instance of a not unreasonable position held by idiots. The supporters of AAT are its greatest hindrance (yes, you, David Childress/Giorgio). Their main problem is trying to throw as much s*** against the wall as possible and hoping that some of it will stick, which leaves them wide open to criticism that discredits their more salient points.
As I see it:
1. Religious stories exist to which an almost desperate level of significance has been assigned. As I lifelong atheist, I generally assumed these stories to be myths. However, the importance attached to these tales by our ancestors and bits of anecdotal evidence (prehistoric flooding at the end of the last ice age --> the tale of Noah's Ark) have led me to believe that there could be some truth to these stories. However, my atheism leads me to seek alternative explanations for these "acts of God." We have documented cases of people misinterpreting other groups as Gods (the Aztecs with Cortes). That, coupled with the mathematical impossibility that we are alone in the universe (and that we live in a relatively new solar system), demonstrates—to me, at least—that AAT is not an irrational belief. At the very least, Occam's razor suggests that it is more reasonable to posit advanced beings as an explanation for these phenomena than to posit spiritual gods.
2. Ancient megalithic structures demonstrate that the mainstream scientific view of history is flawed. Unfortunately, the dogmatism of academia prevents an unbiased assessment of these sites. I certainly believe that the Egyptians COULD have built the pyramids, as that project was more about manpower than technology. But the precision with which other sites (I don't feel like listing them here, but they have all been in Ancient Aliens) were built is far beyond mainstream science's understanding of ancient cultures.
3. Mainstream science cannot account for the quantum leap from hunter-gatherers to the relatively advanced society that we have now, over just a few thousand years.
Where does that leave us? It is certainly possible that aliens had a role in shaping early Man. Unfortunately, AAT proponents see "aliens" everywhere they look—to disregard AAT just because of these charlatans seems unreasonable to me. I'll keep an open mind for now, but I feel that we can only be certain that sophisticated cultures have existed on Earth for longer than previously thought.

^ AAT is the ONLY possibility of the Bible, I wont listen to demons/angels talkabout. And honestly, why would someone bother to make something like the Bible which is considered a source of history? Why would Native Americans, others from India, China talk about encounters, all is legends myths, artist expressions? Don't think so, but since there is no demons or not what they are thought to be, what is left, got better explanations? That's why this theory exists and is a good possibility, not certain but plausible..

reply to post by SplitInfinity


In UFO Hunters Season 3 Giorgio Tsoukalos' hairstyle is normal, even though he talks about ancient aliens, it seems he may have had an electric incident during the show.

Bill Burnes for instance had a reddish face from the sun on one of the episodes of Ancient Aliens, could have been while shooting the third season of UFO Hunters,

As I do think that this TV show is very bias towards just about all religions that exist today as they basically claim that everything is not beaus of some religious figure but because of aliens coming down to earth and making whatever changes they may be talking about at the time. As this is when it seems that they are really bias when they try and debunk some religious belief. Im sure everyone notices this they don't even consider the fact that maybe just maybe the Aliens could be the gods themselves and that technology may actually be magic or power from them after all technology is basically just the control and changing of frequencies, power, or energy or however you would like to put it. And since everything has its own freq signature then the manipulation of power could be done in a magical way (say like one being able to create a carpet spark with their finger at will now translate that into being able to do more crazy phenomenal stuff at will). Not all energy needs to be manipulated by electrical boards i.e. the animal body (yes even humans) which manipulate energy in their own way. Now not sure if anyone can interpret this as im not the best speaker but im sure the point is given. Now with this point this is one thing I hate about the show but other than the fluid debunking of religion I would like to say that with all the research they have done it is hard to really give a really good debunk to it. I mean this article in itself clearly sets out to diminish their research just as they set out to debunk religion though their are some valid points on some artifacts such as the plane artifact that could be a fish and the astronaut drawings but im sure if you watch enough of their shows you can clearly see that their is more than just one or two drawings or artifacts that support their research to help justify their case. Where as in this page it seems that the least probable evidence is what is being used to try and exploit the show. In example good talk is given as to how they try and burn into everyone heads that aliens are the only answer to something they find such as the artifact they think is of a plane but you explain how they leave out it could be a fish or anything else and you give other words and paintings to try and debunk it but you leave out the one artifact that is probably the main reason they believe it is an actual depiction of an actual aircraft and that is the paintings of actual space craft being drawn and tanks and helicopters which is the most compelling evidence out their that clearly shows they aircraft and submerged ships but its left out here. Or how they have actual scientist say and explain how some of the physical properties of some structures were basically impossible to build with what what used back then and even more basically close to impossible to do now even with current tech. As with the paintings of spacemen yes you give good explanation of how they could be just hats they wore things like that back then but you leave out that many of these same paintings of basically the same type of drawings are world wide to not forget about how pyramids seem to be world wide. What I am saying is that they have done pretty good research to justify their case and in my own opinion good reason and argument is given with this site but not even close enough to debunk the show. But hey im open to being given more answers as I am on a project so any help as to what ideas to which may be true or false would help but I just dont see enough here so for now im going more towards the show. Keep in mind im not only using the show for evidence im using my own research of old civilizations and alien reports, military involvement and alien stories to try and combine them to see where im at and of course ill take any debunking as well as it will help me be more accurate on my little experiment.

reply to post by AcidFlow04


My only advice to your seeking the truth project is....seek for data and information that is legaly available through the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT. Look in areas that there would be NO LOGICAL REASON to place files or data about E.T.

But do NOT....under ANY circumstance.....confront any U.S. Military or Civilian Agency or Companies who they do buisness with...or any of their employees.....with questions about ANYTHING concerning UFO craft ot E.T. or even possible high tech. weapons development.

DON'T DO IT! Take my advice in the same way you would take advice from a SHERPA....on what route you should take during a blizzard on Everest.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by bigpoppa
In my view, AAT represents a curious instance of a not unreasonable position held by idiots. The supporters of AAT are its greatest hindrance (yes, you, David Childress/Giorgio). Their main problem is trying to throw as much s*** against the wall as possible and hoping that some of it will stick, which leaves them wide open to criticism that discredits their more salient points.

Lol...Excellent - that must be one of the better comments on the subject I've read so far "...a curious instance of a not unreasonable position held by idiots... Classic - I've got to remember that one :-)

As I see it:
1. Religious stories exist to which an almost desperate level of significance has been assigned. As I lifelong atheist, I generally assumed these stories to be myths. However, the importance attached to these tales by our ancestors and bits of anecdotal evidence (prehistoric flooding at the end of the last ice age --> the tale of Noah's Ark) have led me to believe that there could be some truth to these stories. However, my atheism leads me to seek alternative explanations for these "acts of God." We have documented cases of people misinterpreting other groups as Gods (the Aztecs with Cortes). That, coupled with the mathematical impossibility that we are alone in the universe (and that we live in a relatively new solar system), demonstrates—to me, at least—that AAT is not an irrational belief. At the very least, Occam's razor suggests that it is more reasonable to posit advanced beings as an explanation for these phenomena than to posit spiritual gods.

Occam's Razor - only if the two were your only options - the most reasonable is Man's urge to make sense of things - so in absence of science to explain the world, myths and tales spring up, later turning into religion.

2. Ancient megalithic structures demonstrate that the mainstream scientific view of history is flawed. Unfortunately, the dogmatism of academia prevents an unbiased assessment of these sites. I certainly believe that the Egyptians COULD have built the pyramids, as that project was more about manpower than technology. But the precision with which other sites (I don't feel like listing them here, but they have all been in Ancient Aliens) were built is far beyond mainstream science's understanding of ancient cultures.

We tend to underestimate our ancestors and mainstream science will not posit a theory, even if they have a decent enough hypothesis, unless they're reasonably sure the theory will hold up. We may also have to come to grips with the fact that some things will remain a mystery - but AA wouldn't solve the mystery, only widen it. Besides, the precision or impossibilty of some sites (i.e. Puma Punku) is often grossly overstated. In the case of i.e. Puma Punku it's the "diorite" argument...

3. Mainstream science cannot account for the quantum leap from hunter-gatherers to the relatively advanced society that we have now, over just a few thousand years.

Actually, I believe that this development is fairly well understood and documented. Also, don't forget that development (sociological and technological) was not linear with dramatic setbacks and certainly wasn't a quantum leap (at least not in it's proper definition of being the smallest possible change, but sudden and without intermediary steps).

Where does that leave us? It is certainly possible that aliens had a role in shaping early Man. Unfortunately, AAT proponents see "aliens" everywhere they look—to disregard AAT just because of these charlatans seems unreasonable to me. I'll keep an open mind for now, but I feel that we can only be certain that sophisticated cultures have existed on Earth for longer than previously thought.

Yes, it is possible (however unlikely) and the AAT circus is certainly a problem for anyone wanting to seriously look into it - not to mention a reason why real scientists don't want to touch the subject with a 10 ft pole. Fact is that there is not a single shred of physical evidence that would hold up as proof - at least not any of the things presented in the show.

reply to post by nv4711


4711....I agree with all you post except the issue of how our ancient ancestors were able to perform certain feats of engineering especially at KARNAK and PUMA PUNKU. Some of the stone work here is done with such precision and carved into stone that is close to hardness of diamond as a stone can get....that modern stone workers have said....for them to do the work....not only would it take years but....to get the acuracy....3 to 8 one thousandanths of an inch....a computer controlled robotic Diamond Tipped Lathe would HAVE TO BE USED.
Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by nv4711

 

4711....I agree with all you post except the issue of how our ancient ancestors were able to perform certain feats of engineering especially at KARNAK and PUMA PUNKU. Some of the stone work here is done with such precision and carved into stone that is close to hardness of diamond as a stone can get....that modern stone workers have said....for them to do the work....not only would it take years but....to get the acuracy....3 to 8 one thousandanths of an inch....a computer controlled robotic Diamond Tipped Lathe would HAVE TO BE USED.
Split Infinity

Hey Split...check this out: looks like it wasn't so difficult to work with after all... well, it was..but not impossible...
Did you know that most stones at Puma Punku are red sandstone, and not diorite?

Pre-dynasty Egyptian Diorite vase, ca. 3,500 BC:


Diorite Statue of Khafre (proud owner of the second pyramid at Giza)


Code of Hammurabi - a 7.5 ft Diorite stele, inscribed with 240 laws ("The Babylonian Laws") and intricate carvings, ca. 1,750 BC

reply to post by nv4711


4711....I am not one of these....everything that ancient man built must have been because they got help from E.T.....type of guys.

There is some serious mysteries on how certain ancient temples or carvings were made....considering....when you get consistancies down to a few thousandth of an inch.....and these carvings run in pictographic patterns all over HUGE obelisks.....and a modern day crafts man looks at it and says.....I can't do this without a robotic computirized matrix pattern.....well then....you have some questions.

I know E.T. to be a fact. How long they have been coming here and to what involvement they placed themselves into human society....well....unless someone hasn't told me.....no one knows that question as of yet.

You are right to defend Human will of getting things done. Split Infinity

your right about them looking up to the stars for answers. i suppose it makes since that they built in a pyramid form because the weight is destributed in a way it can be build massively tall. but its such a huge ... challenge ? to build so much and for what ? i agree the e.t components r a stretch. but in my opinion throughout history there are people looking up to the sky... there are religions.. and ufo sightings (supposedly) . scriptures from intelligent teachers who actually say they r from the heavens. idk what to believe. but i think itd be silly not to dig . and be open to the idea. there may be a spiritual/other worldly influence. or maybe our ancestors just really liked psychedelics such as mushrooms and dmt brews. whatever the reason. i dont think this mystery can be discounted just like bigfoot... or the tahoe lachness creature. there is a similarity that for some reason... im only starting to piece together now since the stupid ancient alien show came on.but im glad i did cause im 18 and had no f-ing idea there was even such a theory. sorry for the lengthlyness.. i like this topic and its my first post.


i dont think im the only one whos feeling like all of human kind is starting to piece together..as well as our history and our acestoirs who somehow built empires from the heavens

reply to post by paranoidNcurious


Your 18! What a great age! For me it was. It was also the start of my Education....my Training....and my....Indoctrination....although I thought it way cool and reveled in the power and freedom.

Back in my day....I don't know how it is now but....in High School....you had to take all sorts of tests....SATS...IQ....Psychological....and even tests that were given to every student from the MILITARY RECRUITERS....that had their own little section built right into the guidence councilors offices.

Even back then....I was already a performing musician....and was making good money as well as running one of my families companies at the ripe age of 18....I had a car....I had money.....and being a musician with money who actually was good looking and was into sports and although I drank beer....legal back then....since also sang....I did not smoke....so.....this gave me a cross connection to the Jocks....the Stoners....the Musical Stoners....the Geeks....since I took Calculus, Computer Science, Advanced College Level Physics....as well as throw a mean fast ball and played on the Tennis team....I also played on the Chess team.....but all this had one draw back......MY TEACHERS HATED ME! I mean HATE....with a passion.

I refused to be their GOLDEN BOY.....and although I had Honor level Grades.....I could have had straight A's.....except in spelling deductions on papers....I have ALWAYS SUCKED AT SPELLING.

Anyway....as this applies to this topic....I kept getting called in to the Guidence Counselors office only to be called in to talk to a different branch of the service on a pain in the ass....increacing level. Listening to these guys spout BULL$#!% about the advantages of SIGNING UP....and money for college. I was from a Military/Civilian Agency family to begin with had been warned forehand...not to sign anything.

One day being called in again....I was met by a LT. Colonel of a branch I will not discuss....he brought out a folder with all my test scores and particularily spoke about a certain Moral Flexibility the Psych test supposedly determined as well as spoke of my IQ....which for the record I think little of as it only tests people for a certain type of intelligence....and ignores other people of high IQ just in a different form.

Right in the middle of this....a family friend I call "UNCLE"....swooped in and pulled me out of there. I was stunned! Then after getting into his car....I recieved an offer that....if you are a 18 year old....going to College....playing in a band....eager to see the world and gain new experiences....kid....you say....YES! I AM IN!

Here I am ....all these years later....and know a few things like....E.T. is a reality....and has been around for Milllenia....and that people knew decades ago that there were some clues or discrepencies in the manufacture or carvings of stone work at many ancient sites....that did not add up....especially the fact that since the earliest diggings in GIZA....or KARNAK.....the stone work could not be duplicated by the tech. that existed in the 1920's all the was to the 1970's.....they knew....but they were told to say nothing of this. Split Infinity

wow..
thats is remarkable. i wish i lived in your time...
i wish i could follow my questions myself with answers.. discover.. and not behind lines in a page or computer screen. i was a bad student.. but at the same time i was known by all my teachers as being above others. i tested great .respectful and humble . tried to be nice. im known for a sense of humor thats breaks all ice.. i answered questions like they were rehearsed and i asked questions no one else was thinking. and i honestly cant say i did homework more then once every once or tiwce a month. i just didnt see the point in proving myself when i knew i was learning to these people i thought were jokes.rewriting vocabulary words, and instead of bioology class being interesting was a monotonous hell with ppl waiting for the bell. a person with no depth and no sense of curiousity or sign of having an unquenchable thirst for knowledge got there hw done.. went to college full ride, had all these scandles.but cant answer a damn thing.thats catholic school for you . i dont like to judge so i just went thru highschool
now that i graduated.. im in complete limbo with nothing to look forward to and all i want to do is search and find the answers to lifes mysteries first hand and learn all there is to learn in the "real world" thats existed longer then is given credit or thought. there is alot to know... and alot to find.. i just wish i could be a part of it first hand. but how ?military.. cant see that see thats going anywhere but a battlefield..
college.. so i can pile on some debt for a career i dont give two #s about.
i see these explorers... and researchers doing there own thing. i would give anything to be shipped somewhere just to wonder in a place where questions have truthful .. realistic.. curious and beautiful insight into what "is".the answers.
where does one begin...
i dont have musical skills... connections, not even a car.
im just a white girl from a farm county in california . in the bad side of town living like an average teen.what a waste.even still im a happy person who loves people and sensitive to everything, i like how u admit to ets? so u have experience. i know nothing except others experiences.

reply to post by paranoidNcurious


Do me a favor. NEVER AGAIN SAY....THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO! PLEASE! Do it for me....even if you don't know me. You have ....EVERYTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.....but more importantly....YOU HAVE TO START LIVING RIGHT NOW!

Many people make the mistake of dwelling either too much time on their past or worrying about their future....or even worse....they IGNORE THE PRESENT....and direct all their time and energy worrying or over preparing for a FUTURE that a person cannot hope to determine or guess will be their path.

This doesn't mean....stop any attempt at Higher Education or act like the Carefree Grasshopper that in the famous FABLE....spent all summer long playing and jumping around without spending anytime or effort to prepare for the eventual coming of Winter.....he spent that summer laughing at and making fun of the Ants who worked all day....every day....in preperation for the winter. When Winter eventually came....his attitude changed very quickly at the occurence of the FIRST FROST.

There is a way to get everything and anything you want.....and that way is achieved by BALANCE.

I was at one time....the KING of doing any one particular thing....that at that time....I had an interest in....to a state of obsesive repetitive attempts until it became a thing i could do to PERFECTION. THEN.....I would go a step further....and develop a different way of doing the same thing....that was contrary to many collective experiences of others that develop RULES. Sort of like....always interlock your pinky fingers in attempting a Golf Club swing.....then make my own rules that for me....in certain instances...not all....worked better for me.

My point here is....don't ever sell yourself short because you have tried things using status quo rules and concepts and in only attempting or LOOKING at something to be achieved in OTHER PEOPLES LONG PRACTICED....TRIED AND SUPPOSEDLY TRUE METHODS AND RULES....you make a decision in your mind that you either are not good or capable or have nothing to offer....or your skill sets....that either you or some other group or acadamia have determined to be at THIS LEVEL....and nothing more or greater.

If I did or allowed myself to do that....my 4th Grade Music Teacher gave me an F and told my parents I had NO MUSICAL ABILITY OF ANY KIND AND WAS TONE DEAF!.....I would never have become a World Class Musician and have played and performed all these years making lots of money and even more valuable.....GAINING INVALUABLE EXPERIENCES!

YOU HAVE ALOT GOING ON.....you just need to find what and where it is. To do that....you must be brave and take a leap of faith....and you WILL fall again and again....but....the secret is the ability to pick yourself up and TRY AGAIN.....not worrying about what others think!

Split Infinity

whats funny is that people believe in "time" people belive in the past and the "present" but a clock which is used to measure time goes in a repetitive circle it doesnt actually have an infinite measurement,

so to think the wonders of the earth are ancient is very much insane nothing is ancient as it is current our minds our deteriorated from the lies being forced on us.