Ancient Aliens Debunked?

Harte,

I think your motto says it all.

Absence of evidence is not only evidence of absence, it is the only evidence of absence.

I need not waste anymore of my time with you.

originally posted by: CManetta
Harte,

I think your motto says it all.

Absence of evidence is not only evidence of absence, it is the only evidence of absence.

I need not waste anymore of my time with you.

Does such a thing as evidence of absence exist?
That is, is there any way a person can tell if a thing is not there?

You seem to imply not.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: CManetta

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: CManetta

"Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

Right. Citing science fiction - [I]that's[/I] the way to argue your point.

Harte,

"Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

This is a metaphor. Maybe you have heard of them? The origin of the metaphor is irrelevant.

I have no doubt that there are hucksters trying to take your money all over this field of research, but I don't think "Ancient Aliens" is one of these types. Before this show, no one really gathered a large quantity of evidence from all over the world and because of the History Channel's budget these extensive travels and investigations have presented this evidence to the public in an "Entertaining" format where most researchers could never afford to travel to these remote places on the planet.

Yeah, and it's even easier when the perpetrators of the frauds are caught and admit they were lying to you for your money:

There have been many seasons of this show and i will agree that they have been making some wild leaps to keep the show on the air. With that being said, I don't see how this show is defrauding anyone? If you don't like it, you just change the channel. To most people that do like the show it has given us a wealth of information that would not normally be available to us.

So, you didn't watch the vid? They caught VonDaniken in a lie - he actually paid a potter to create an "artifact" for him. He even admitted it.
EVD is one of the main proponents of the AAH on that show.

originally posted by: CManetta
Is this Forum designed for skeptics and debunkers. From it's name, it certainly doesn't appear to have debunking foremost in their goals. If I had to guess, you fall in the role of a typical debunker.

The motto of the site is "Deny Ignorance." What does that mean to you?

originally posted by: CManetta

Many of us here have been doing this for a very long time - including the OP.

Doing what? Investigating the mysteries of the world or debunking free thought and enlightenment?

I would really like to know exactly what you have been doing for a long time.

[r]There's this thing here called a "search function." If you really wanted to know, you would.

I've been looking into these things since 1980 or so - before the internet even existed. I've learned a lot. One of the things I know is that "Ancient Aliens" doesn't present any evidence at all - just tired claims that date back (in some cases) almost 60 years. Some claims are a decade or two younger - some are several decades older - all have been completely refuted. [/r]

All of them.

Harte

Many of us here have been doing this for a very long time - including the OP.

Nice to know that you speak for the Owner and Administrators of this Forum.

Ancient Aliens is only the last platform to present these examples of items that do not fit the normal accepted chronology of history. These aberrations have existed since the beginning of history. If you had "been looking into these things since 1980 or so" you would know that this debate did not start with Ancient Aliens. These "completely refuted" stories, (what arrogance) ancient structures and unclaimed enigmas have been discussed mouth to ear way before there was any form of written communication. To even suggest that this phenomena only goes back approximately 80 years shows how ignorant to the Ancient Astronaut theory that you really are.

Not to mention history in general.

Almost every religion or genesis story in the entire world explicitly explains where their origins come from. This is not just a coincidence.

So you by lack of an answer, you admit that you have never entered the field to investigate any of these "alleged" pieces of evidence and you are basically just an armchair quarterback.

Is this what you mean by "Absence of evidence is not only evidence of absence, it is the only evidence of absence."

Your responses only show evidence of absence.

I have personally visited many of these locations and have invested thousands of dollars into ancient tomes that are hundreds of years old to research this subject. I have also joined secret societies that go back thousands of years in my quest to seek the truth.



I can positively tell you that the truth IS out there but you have to do more than be an armchair quarterback to find it. I know what it is but I am not going to waste my breath on telling you what it is. It is not something that can be proven in today's technology, so for you it is not real and personally I don't think that you could emotionally handle it.

So go a head and live your life in ignorance. Just remember that in today's time we have the ability to quest for the truth. Go back 300 or 400 years and we seekers of the truth would be burned at the stake. Humanity could only believe what was decided in the Council of Nicaea in the year 325 AD.

Intelligent human history is incredibly older than that. So keep your mind closed to only what can be proven. I wonder how it feels to be an atheist?

"Be Happy!"

"Ignorance is Bliss"

originally posted by: CManetta
a reply to: Harte

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

When have you eliminated anything that is impossible here?

More like this:
"When you eliminate the things I prefer to believe are impossible without even trying to determine if I'm right, then I'm free to offer wild speculation as accepted fact."

Harte

originally posted by: CManetta
Nice to know that you speak for the Owner and Administrators of this Forum.

I don't. But I can read.

originally posted by: CManetta
Ancient Aliens is only the last platform to present these examples of items that do not fit the normal accepted chronology of history. These aberrations have existed since the beginning of history. If you had "been looking into these things since 1980 or so" you would know that this debate did not start with Ancient Aliens. These "completely refuted" stories, (what arrogance) ancient structures and unclaimed enigmas have been discussed mouth to ear way before there was any form of written communication. To even suggest that this phenomena only goes back approximately 80 years shows how ignorant to the Ancient Astronaut theory that you really are.

The CLAIMS go back that far. Obviously the things the claims are made about are older. Duh.
Or, are you constructing a straw man here?

originally posted by: CManetta
Almost every religion or genesis story in the entire world explicitly explains where their origins come from. This is not just a coincidence.

Of course it's not a coincidence. What do you think the term "genesis story" means?

originally posted by: CManetta

So you by lack of an answer, you admit that you have never entered the field to investigate any of these "alleged" pieces of evidence and you are basically just an armchair quarterback.

Is this what you mean by "Absence of evidence is not only evidence of absence, it is the only evidence of absence."

Your responses only show evidence of absence.

I see. So your answer is that there is no such thing as evidence of absence then?
Does that mean EVERTHING is present?

originally posted by: CManetta
I have personally visited many of these locations and have invested thousands of dollars into ancient tomes that are hundreds of years old to research this subject. I have also joined secret societies that go back thousands of years in my quest to seek the truth.

Nice pic. I hope you got your money's worth, because as far as the "research" you claim, well, you wasted your money there.
You know, unless you were researching restaurants and hotels.

You should have spent the money on education. Then you'd know that there exist no "secret societies that go back thousands of years."
Yeah, some claim to. However, sensible people immediately grab ahold of their wallets upon hearing such hooie.

originally posted by: CManetta
I can positively tell you that the truth IS out there but you have to do more than be an armchair quarterback to find it. I know what it is but I am not going to waste my breath on telling you what it is. It is not something that can be proven in today's technology, so for you it is not real and personally I don't think that you could emotionally handle it.

You seem to be the one having the breakdown here. You are averse to learning how thoroughly you've been had.
I know that feeling, I believed this crap once myself.

But I decided to look into it, rather than swallow it whole like you have.

originally posted by: CManetta
So go a head and live your life in ignorance. Just remember that in today's time we have the ability to quest for the truth. Go back 300 or 400 years and we seekers of the truth would be burned at the stake. Humanity could only believe what was decided in the Council of Nicaea in the year 325 AD.

Intelligent human history is incredibly older than that. So keep your mind closed to only what can be proven. I wonder how it feels to be an atheist?

"Be Happy!"

"Ignorance is Bliss"

The idiot's last resort - call someone an atheist, without even making the simplest attempt to determine if they are.

I challenge you to find a single instance anywhere on this board where you can definitively prove me wrong.
But, be careful - that works both ways. I can prove you wrong with little or no effort. In fact, I did so with a link to a video in less than 3 minutes.

Harte

originally posted by: CManetta

So, you didn't watch the vid? They caught VonDaniken in a lie - he actually paid a potter to create an "artifact" for him. He even admitted it.

Your "Video" is a dead link in your first hyper-text link and the second one is a 52 minute video. Do you really expect me to watch a one hour show to validate your position?

Only if you are actually interested in the truth.
Yeah, that's an old thread I linked, which is why I offered a new link to the vid.

The motto of the site is "Deny Ignorance." What does that mean to you?

originally posted by: CManetta
It depends on your point of view. If this Forum is a home for skeptics I won't waste any more of my time here.

I understand. You might learn enough to cause an existential moment - very uncomfortable that.

originally posted by: CManetta

I would really like to know exactly what you have been doing for a "Very long time."

There's this thing here called a "search function." If you really wanted to know, you would.

This is another of your attempts to deflect my questions by suggesting I search this humongous database to find out what you have done to contribute to enlightenment. What makes you an expert in this field? Again, I suggest that you are a common debunker.

I'm an uncommon debunker. One that actually offers evidence rather than calls for claimants to offer theirs. Have you not noticed that I haven't asked you to back up your statements?

originally posted by: CManetta

Even if Erich von Däniken (who is only a contributor of information) did do something improper 30 years ago it doesn't change the bulk of evidence given in the show. Only a fool would ignore the overwhelming facts of the past 50 years just because of on man's indiscretion.

Only a fool would call what is presented on that show "evidence."

originally posted by: CManetta

In his day Erich von Däniken was a pioneer in this field that had to go up against a rigid and self-righteous scientific establishment that still today ignore the obvious facts.

What's ignored is a sales pitch made to the ignorant to fleece them of their money. But they would lose that money one way or the other anyway, so no big deal, right?

originally posted by: CManetta

I would like to ask you again and it is a real simple yes or no question have you ever once gone into the field and personally investigated some of these enigmas of the world?

Are you implying that I must stand in Pakal's tomb in order to determine that his carving is not showing him operating a spaceship?

Since you brought it up, what are these "enigmas of the world" that have you so flabbergasted?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

The only reason I mentioned that you might be an atheist is because it appears that unless something can be scientifically proven, you seem to reject it out of hand. A belief in a Supreme Being or "God" takes faith and faith is the absence of proof.

Again I am not trying to insult you or doubt your credibility, I just would like to know what you field of expertise is? Just out of curiosity. Do you have a degree in archaeology, an anthropology or any other specialty that would make you an "expert" in these fields.

I am just an average blue collar Joe that has had numerous extra normal experiences that sent me on my quest. I really don't want to get into a pissing match with you because you seem very well educated and I have witnessed that sometimes the more educated someone is, the more rigid they are in their view and are less likely to have an open mind. (I am not saying this is you)

I know what I have witnessed and I also know there is much more out there than what the Governments or Military will have you believe. Once you have seen something extraordinary and completely at odds with common beliefs, you have the tendency to revert from "Prove it to me" to "I will believe anything is possible unless you prove it is not."

This back and forth between us is taking a toll on me and I am tired of the argument so I would like to we both are entitled out own beliefs and just leave it at that.

I would love to bury the hatchet and just say Peace be with you.

Sincerely,

CManetta

originally posted by: CManetta
a reply to: Harte

The only reason I mentioned that you might be an atheist is because it appears that unless something can be scientifically proven, you seem to reject it out of hand. A belief in a Supreme Being or "God" takes faith and faith is the absence of proof.

Not at all my take on existence.
You can't "prove" a thing. You can only disprove it.
The claims that have been made have no evidence behind them. That can be proven. What is claimed as evidence is actually lies, half-lies and/or complete misrepresentations of what is known. I'd like to point out that everything every fringe author writes about is a thing that mainstream science has discovered, not the author.
Therefore, no real "research" is being done by fringe proponents - it's mostly recycling old claims that have been disproven and conveniently leaving out established facts so that to the reader/follower (IOW, the mark,) there appears to be some basis to the claims.

originally posted by: CManetta
a reply to: Harte
Again I am not trying to insult you or doubt your credibility, I just would like to know what you field of expertise is? Just out of curiosity. Do you have a degree in archaeology, an anthropology or any other specialty that would make you an "expert" in these fields.

No, the only claim to being an expert I've ever made is that I am an expert in the claims made by the fringe.

Offline, you might say I'm a good mathematician, but I wouldn't claim to be an expert there either.
My degree is in Mechanical Engineering. Archaeology is just a hobby. An armchair hobby, as you surmised.
I teach Math and Physics for a living these days though.

originally posted by: CManetta
a reply to: Harte
I am just an average blue collar Joe that has had numerous extra normal experiences that sent me on my quest. I really don't want to get into a pissing match with you because you seem very well educated and I have witnessed that sometimes the more educated someone is, the more rigid they are in their view and are less likely to have an open mind. (I am not saying this is you)

I know what I have witnessed and I also know there is much more out there than what the Governments or Military will have you believe. Once you have seen something extraordinary and completely at odds with common beliefs, you have the tendency to revert from "Prove it to me" to "I will believe anything is possible unless you prove it is not."

This back and forth between us is taking a toll on me and I am tired of the argument so I would like to we both are entitled out own beliefs and just leave it at that.

I would love to bury the hatchet and just say Peace be with you.

Sincerely,

CManetta

I still have an attitude problem with fringe authors and claimants due to having been conned by Erik VonDaniken in the 1970's. That is something I didn't, and don't, appreciate. Mostly I post here and elsewhere to establish the other side of the argument, trying to help prevent others from enduring the same thing.

I don't really see my posts here as arguments with any one individual. It's simply my goal to have counterarguments to those claims that I know to be baseless appear in the same threads as the claims do. For the sake of any readers.

I first started posting on message boards over a decade ago. It started with a Google search on one of the claims I'd read.
Posts here came up and still come up in those kind of searches. People trying to find out deserve to hear the facts along with how they are misrepresented by these authors in their attempts to astound the chronically astonished.

You might notice that I only extremely rarely post on any current subject. I confine myself to the past because there are ways to tell the facts from the BS there. Modern phenomena are much less prone to my sort of analysis. But I feel like there's way more than enough others looking into those claims, so I would be superfluous in those subject areas anyway.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

So can we end our tit for tat and just be friends?

We are probably a lot alike. We both strongly believe in what we feel. I am a retired Professional Firefighter and have only been tormented by very strange events in my past. I am overly sensitive and defensive, but I am a compassionate person.

Maybe some day you might be interested in some of my experiences that have made me who I am today. (A really screwed up soul that has been through some of the most terrifying events you could ever imagine) I suffer every day to survive with my sanity and depression and have been ever since 1975.

Please forgive my ranting.

Friends?

originally posted by: CManetta
a reply to: Harte

So can we end our tit for tat and just be friends?

We are probably a lot alike. We both strongly believe in what we feel. I am a retired Professional Firefighter and have only been tormented by very strange events in my past. I am overly sensitive and defensive, but I am a compassionate person.

Maybe some day you might be interested in some of my experiences that have made me who I am today. (A really screwed up soul that has been through some of the most terrifying events you could ever imagine) I suffer every day to survive with my sanity and depression and have been ever since 1975.

Please forgive my ranting.

Friends?

Your experiences are too modern for me. I probably wouldn't critique them, since the ancient stuff takes enough of my time.
Others here certainly will though.

Whatever you have experienced, if you say you believe it's true then I would tend to believe that you believe it is true.

That sort of thing doesn't depend on the misinformation of hucksters like the ancient alien stuff does. Because of that, I'm fairly indifferent about it. Even ambivalent.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

I see that you are a scientist John.

As I suspected. That explains everything. No wonder you are negative. If it can't be proven it doesn't exist.

I have no more to say. Goodbye!

originally posted by: CManetta
a reply to: Harte

I see that you are a scientist John.

As I suspected. That explains everything. No wonder you are negative. If it can't be proven it doesn't exist.

I have no more to say. Goodbye!

Not what I said at all.
How did you get "If it can't be proven, it doesn't exist" from "You can't "prove" a thing. You can only disprove it "?

Harte

So I've just finished the 3 hour movie on youtube and its really well presented. Seems to be its pretty settled that the Ancient Aliens series is bunk.



So has anyone managed to debunk this debunk movie?

There are a few minor mistakes in it - nothing that would contradict their purpose in making the vid, though.

Harte