Non-Believers who think science has all the answers, riddle me this

Originally posted by AQuestion
You either agree or disagree that science has some pretty crazy beliefs that people accept with no thought.

Science does not have beliefs. Belief is faith without proof. Science is all about proof, so Science and Belief are not compatible. (That's why this whole Science vs God thing never gets anywhere. It's comparing apples and oranges.) People don't hold a "belief" in science any more than they hold a "belief" in mathematics, geography, or language.

Originally posted by vjr1113
science does not have all the answers...

I disagree. Science does have all the answers. We just haven't discovered them all yet. As we move along and study the universe more and more, we discover the answers that science has held all along.

To respond to the OP:

Originally posted by AQuestion
Explain how multi-universes and quantum physics makes sense?

I don't understand these theories well enough to explain them. I am not a scientist and I really don't have the desire to fully understand them, nor do I wish for others to understand them or accept them as truth. I'm not selling science or pushing in on anyone.
.

reply to post by AQuestion

"Which came first the chicken or the egg"?
You say multi-universes are current science, but mention, if true, religions concept of heaven and hell could be proved by it
.
Could science be just catching up to religion?

What about Hubble's discovery of the expanding universe (via red shift) this century?
"And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." - 51:47 Qur'an (before 632CE).

I'm not personally religious although I do believe something had to create whatever caused the big bang. My idea is that God created the elements etc required for the big bang and let evolution carry on from there, Does that make sense?

reply to post by AQuestion


Everything is built on faith in the end. Scientists and those that follow that religion are no more enlightened than any of us. Or i could say they are as enlightened as any of us.
Each of us as a separate individual has to explore and question, this is enlightening.
The search is on to find the truth.
One day it will be realized that there is no truth outside this present moment.
The present moment is the truth.

These experiements that are 'proving' science.
Are now showing that "The problem is the observability of our universe"!!!!
This says it all. "The measurement problem."

Nothing can be measured unless there is someone there measuring. 'Things' don't exist until there is a consciousness for it to 'exist' in. Nothing can be outside of consciousness. There is nothing but consciousness.
Science, God, tables, people appear within consciousness, it is the space for the ten thousand things. But God and you and tables are not separate, all is consciousness appearing to consciousness.

In this precious moment you can see. In this moment you can hear. This is life.
You are life knowing life.

reply to post by AQuestion


Science is still in its infantcy, there is still more that we are learning and need to learn before we will get closer to attaining knowledge. Look at our ancestors. The world is flat, the sun and all planets revolve around the earth, etc. It is amazing to me that each time the church said that these people were wrong, when they went against "common knowledge", they had to change their beliefs and make religion fit. That is the reason I don't believe in religion, if you have a core set of beliefs, why change them?!? I guess for some people it is easier to believe in some entity sitting back and watching us and shaping our future than it is to believe that we are all responsible for our own choices.

Originally posted by AQuestion
You say the multiverse is a theory, do you agree or disagree with the theory

I don't believe in the multiverse, nor do I in god. Is that clear enough?

IRM

reply to post by AQuestion

You either agree or disagree that science has some pretty crazy beliefs that people accept with no thought.

That's the foundation of your misunderstanding right there.

You are mistaking scientists for science. It is a world of difference. Scientists are people, just as fallible as you or I. Science, on the other hand, is a tool that fallible entities can use to understand the world around them. Therefore "science" is never wrong. It's a process, a method. Please try to understand, it is nothing more than this. Scientists are people who use science, for a living. It's as simple as that.

So you see, there is no discrepancy between science and religion. The application of logic to formulate a conclusion is the most basic application of the scientific method, and you use it yourself. The process is fine - it's just that we as humans are very fallible. Science admits this, hence the need for constant revision and change of theories On the other hand, theists, like yourself, seem to have a big problem with this admission of inherent human fallibility.

reply to post by AQuestion

Multiverse is just one of many scientific THEORIES about the universe. Science dosent claim than any of these theories are the truth.

And btw.. I have no idea if any of those multiple universe theories are true.

reply to post by AQuestion

It is the current state of science so it must make sense, right?

So that's your argument? Non-believers think the current state science is infallable?

The great thing about discovering truth is that you can use the scientific method to challenge current understandings, that's how science progresses.

The best scientists admit when they are incorrect in light of a better theory, or a new evidence.

reply to post by AQuestion


You have to first get a grip, and understand what science is.

Science can be perceived in different ways, one definition of science is the understanding creation through blablabla

Science merely explains what is around you, far and close, how it functions, its mechanics, its properties blablabla...

Science doesn't prove Atheism, nor does it go against the notion of GOD, science explains the creation of GOD.

reply to post by confreak

science explains the creation of GOD.

I've never heard such a scientific theory. It's a conclusion of existence conjured from abstraction and based on what we have observed on Earth.

You're right though, God is not a nessasary understanding for finding out more about the nature, nor does it need to be included to explain Solar Systems or Gallaxies.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


GOD is separate from his creation, you can't put GOD inside a scientific theory, because science merely explains the creation, not the creator.

Do you really want to continue?

reply to post by confreak


Yes.

You propose that this God is OUTSIDE of reality? How do you know? What reason do you have for your theory?

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by confreak

 

Yes.

You propose that this God is OUTSIDE of reality? How do you know? What reason do you have for your theory?

I thought we were talking about science? Do you want to talk about something beyond science now?

The discussion is obviously about science, and I proved that science can be looked at in more than one way. Atheists have tried to hold science hostage against those who believe in a creator, that's out dated, and expired.

If you want to discuss the connection between the creator and its creation, then create a thread for it. Also send me a PM with the link.

Ta.

god created science, duh!

GOD is separate from his creation, you can't put GOD inside a scientific theory

This is quite on topic; i'm anxious to know how you know the above?

Obviously, you know faith is not an answer.

It's evident that science is quite good at extracting truth. I'm interested in how you formed your "truth" about God and how it compares to the scientific method in regards to extracting truth.

Ta.

As you have said Aquestion, quantum logic allows the existence of God. What kills me is that some of the responders try to defend quantum logic with aristotelean logic, which has no truth except in text books and history. Quantum logic is observable and therefore God does fit into the scientific explanation.

Sorry to interupt but truth is science and religion are one and were once percieved as such! it's only through miscommunication, the loss of sacred knowlege, wars and power struggles that we are here arguing about it like they are separate issues!!! If everyone could understand the reality of it, we would be spiritually at ease, more advanced than ever and dare I say it.... happy!!!

peace x

Originally posted by Thundersmurf
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Yeah i'm sure it's me that looks ridiculous. This thread is a waste of time. I can already tell that anything i say will be used against me in some petty confrontation. I didn't attack you (like you seem to think many people have on this thread), grow up. And i wan't off-topic. i think i responded to one particular flaw in your logic.

I'm out...

Go to the OP and show me how you responded and were on topic, dont be a weasel and a liar.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You wrote:

["Everything is built on faith in the end."]

Inside the last hour I have elsewhere offered to go together with you towards this 'end' (epistemology).

You responded by calling this offer a wish for conflict on my part.