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Non-Believers who think science has all the answers, riddle me this

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posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by AQuestion
You either agree or disagree that science has some pretty crazy beliefs that people accept with no thought.


Science does not have beliefs. Belief is faith without proof. Science is all about proof, so Science and Belief are not compatible. (That's why this whole Science vs God thing never gets anywhere. It's comparing apples and oranges.) People don't hold a "belief" in science any more than they hold a "belief" in mathematics, geography, or language.


Originally posted by vjr1113
science does not have all the answers...


I disagree. Science does have all the answers. We just haven't discovered them all yet. As we move along and study the universe more and more, we discover the answers that science has held all along.


To respond to the OP:


Originally posted by AQuestion
Explain how multi-universes and quantum physics makes sense?


I don't understand these theories well enough to explain them. I am not a scientist and I really don't have the desire to fully understand them, nor do I wish for others to understand them or accept them as truth. I'm not selling science or pushing in on anyone.
.
edit on 6/4/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)


Dear Benevolent Heretic,

You really made me laugh a lot. You just said that you accept science because it requires proof then you said you don't understand it well enough to give any, sound like faith to me. Is there nobody who understands science on this whole site well enough to answer my question? Sounds like blind faith to me.




posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by CitizenNum287119327
reply to post by AQuestion
 

"Which came first the chicken or the egg"?
You say multi-universes are current science, but mention, if true, religions concept of heaven and hell could be proved by it
.
Could science be just catching up to religion?

What about Hubble's discovery of the expanding universe (via red shift) this century?
"And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." - 51:47 Qur'an (before 632CE).



Dear CitizenNum287119327,

Look, it is not that hard to stay on topic, read the question and answer it. If you are all so logical then how come nobody has bothered answering the question, it is because you cannot. Stop acting as if you can and admit defeat. Don't change the subject, you violate the rules of the forums and show a complete lack of respect for truth and logic. You cannot answer one question, yet ask many.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by confreak
 


You wrote initially:

["Science doesn't prove Atheism, nor does it go against the notion of GOD, science explains the creation of GOD."]

Science explains (incompletely) cosmos. It's up to you to make cosmos 'the creation of GOD'.

It's just a postulate you've presented.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by visualmiscreant
As you have said Aquestion, quantum logic allows the existence of God. What kills me is that some of the responders try to defend quantum logic with aristotelean logic, which has no truth except in text books and history. Quantum logic is observable and therefore God does fit into the scientific explanation.
edit on 6/4/2011 by visualmiscreant because: spelling


In a context of inductive reasoning it ALLOWS for some theistic ideas.

Not giving them any high status of credibility.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by AQuestion
 


Everything is built on faith in the end. Scientists and those that follow that religion are no more enlightened than any of us. Or i could say they are as enlightened as any of us.
Each of us as a separate individual has to explore and question, this is enlightening.
The search is on to find the truth.
One day it will be realized that there is no truth outside this present moment.
The present moment is the truth.

These experiements that are 'proving' science.
Are now showing that "The problem is the observability of our universe"!!!!
This says it all. "The measurement problem."

Nothing can be measured unless there is someone there measuring. 'Things' don't exist until there is a consciousness for it to 'exist' in. Nothing can be outside of consciousness. There is nothing but consciousness.
Science, God, tables, people appear within consciousness, it is the space for the ten thousand things. But God and you and tables are not separate, all is consciousness appearing to consciousness.

In this precious moment you can see. In this moment you can hear. This is life.
You are life knowing life.



Dear Itisnowagain,

Very nice, we are getting closer in our answers, we are understanding one another better, it started with you telling the truth and not taking a superior attitude as so many on this thread have, yes, it is about sentience. Now lets begin understanding consciousness and what it means. Be well. I am happy to seek the truth with you and others, I am tired of seeing jerks trying to stop us seeking the truth and telling us that we are stupid for finding answers they don't like.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by AQuestion
 


Science is still in its infantcy, there is still more that we are learning and need to learn before we will get closer to attaining knowledge. Look at our ancestors. The world is flat, the sun and all planets revolve around the earth, etc. It is amazing to me that each time the church said that these people were wrong, when they went against "common knowledge", they had to change their beliefs and make religion fit. That is the reason I don't believe in religion, if you have a core set of beliefs, why change them?!?
I guess for some people it is easier to believe in some entity sitting back and watching us and shaping our future than it is to believe that we are all responsible for our own choices.


Dear superman2012,

Why is it so hard to stay on topic, I didn't ask about God, I asked about science and look how defensive everyone got. In short you answer is science doesn't know so there can be no God. Great answer, no more proof than anything else, so stop taking a superior attitude and claiming science has the answer.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by AQuestion
You say the multiverse is a theory, do you agree or disagree with the theory


I don't believe in the multiverse, nor do I in god. Is that clear enough?

IRM


Dear InfaRedMan,

How convenient, then you disagree with science and religion, what do you believe, not what don't you believe. Don't be a coward and only attack, put forth your belief and lets examine them. I put forth mine on many posts.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


You wrote:

["If you choose to constantly post on the Faith forum and tell us that we are stupid and that science has all the answers then riddle me this."]

My question: Do you limit relevant answers to only coming from gnostic atheists? Or are answers from agnostic atheists and others in similar positions also acceptable?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by AQuestion
 



You either agree or disagree that science has some pretty crazy beliefs that people accept with no thought.


That's the foundation of your misunderstanding right there.

You are mistaking scientists for science. It is a world of difference. Scientists are people, just as fallible as you or I. Science, on the other hand, is a tool that fallible entities can use to understand the world around them. Therefore "science" is never wrong. It's a process, a method. Please try to understand, it is nothing more than this. Scientists are people who use science, for a living. It's as simple as that.

So you see, there is no discrepancy between science and religion. The application of logic to formulate a conclusion is the most basic application of the scientific method, and you use it yourself. The process is fine - it's just that we as humans are very fallible. Science admits this, hence the need for constant revision and change of theories On the other hand, theists, like yourself, seem to have a big problem with this admission of inherent human fallibility.


Dear Son of Will,

How clever, you believe in science which is never right but I can never be right. Still, nobody has made an attempt to answer the question I asked and keep discussing God and religion which I did not ask about. Apparently logical people like yourself cannot answer one question, please go back to the OP and answer it before trying to discuss religion.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by AQuestion
 

Multiverse is just one of many scientific THEORIES about the universe. Science dosent claim than any of these theories are the truth.

And btw.. I have no idea if any of those multiple universe theories are true.

edit on 4-6-2011 by juleol because: (no reason given)



Dear juleo,

Then you have no answer for the question and are incapable of proving what they believe, so why did you post at all?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



You wrote:

["Is there nobody who understands science on this whole site well enough to answer my question?"]

What are your criteria?

I have a college education in hard science and decennia of lay-interest in theoretical physics behind me. Does that qualify?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by AQuestion
 



It is the current state of science so it must make sense, right?


So that's your argument? Non-believers think the current state science is infallable?

The great thing about discovering truth is that you can use the scientific method to challenge current understandings, that's how science progresses.

The best scientists admit when they are incorrect in light of a better theory, or a new evidence.

edit on 4/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


Dear awake_and_aware,

Why is it so difficult for non-believers to answer a simple question? I am confused by the lack of any attempt to justify what you believe, I justify what I believe. Why are non-believers incapable of staying on topic, maybe because you have no answers.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
I do mean to challenge. If you choose to constantly post on the Faith forum and tell us that we are stupid and that science has all the answers then riddle me this. Explain how multi-universes and quantum physics makes sense? Please do, I know the theories quite well. I will make it even easier, read this article and come back and explain it with simple, straight forward words that everyone will understand, if it is so sensible than this should be easy. It is the current state of science so it must make sense, right? How bout this, would you feel better if I came on the Science site and endlessly told you about God? I posted there once, I quoted Dawkins and nobody agreed with him when he said the only thing we knew was real was matter, because he violated the science that we do know with that statement.

When the multiverse and many-worlds collide

Have fun kids. Don't forget, if you prove multiple realities are possible, you just proved heaven and hell are possible, have fun with that.


When I think of multiple realities, the first thing that comes to mind is DREAMING.

In a dream we can create our own understanding of our surroundings and/or our sub conscience creates them for us to visualize and experience.

I'm no pro on the matter being discussed. This is just my take on things as presented in the OP.

Speaking of the OP, and now a little off topic. Debate and discussion is a great opportunity to enhance ones perception on certain topics such as this one. Done in a respective light, it can be quite constructive and open peoples eyes to knew ideas and ways of thinking. Personal attacks on the people posting in regards to your OP... well that is just uncalled for in my opinion.

I've seen examples of belittling, name calling and outright rudeness on your part, when all people were trying to do was express opinions on your topic. As a fellow member of ATS, I'm pretty sure that there's a part of you deep down inside that's better than that. Like the one who might feel like they owe a few people here an apology for being so rude and nonconstructive.

Peace...



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by confreak
reply to post by AQuestion
 


You have to first get a grip, and understand what science is.

Science can be perceived in different ways, one definition of science is the understanding creation through blablabla

Science merely explains what is around you, far and close, how it functions, its mechanics, its properties blablabla...

Science doesn't prove Atheism, nor does it go against the notion of GOD, science explains the creation of GOD.


Dear confreak,

Ok so science proves nothing, got you. Then why keep bringing it up as proof? Lets discuss philosophy, but, this thread is on science so answer the question and remain on topic.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by AQuestion
 


You wrote:

["If you choose to constantly post on the Faith forum and tell us that we are stupid and that science has all the answers then riddle me this."]

My question: Do you limit relevant answers to only coming from gnostic atheists? Or are answers from agnostic atheists and others in similar positions also acceptable?




Dear bobomil,

I don't limit who answers, I limit to the topic to the OP, to the question and none have bothered to attempt to justify it with logic.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by AQuestion
 



You wrote:

["Is there nobody who understands science on this whole site well enough to answer my question?"]

What are your criteria?

I have a college education in hard science and decennia of lay-interest in theoretical physics behind me. Does that qualify?


Dear bogomil,

How nice that you have a degree, I have many and it proves what, that you cannot answer a question or be responsive to the OP?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Every time science bumps into something we can explain yet, someone will say God is the next level.
The great thing about scientists is that they won't stop there and they will prove what we couldn't explain before wasn't God.

OP, riddle me how you believe in God. Show me proof. I know you can't.
If multiverses are possible, it will be explained with proof a lot sooner then God.

God is just a idea, the idea to limit us from the unknown, to not go crazy about not being able to explain something.

One of the first sign of great intelligence is to know that we don't have answers to everything, so now tell me...
Is it a sign of low intelligence to think we know everything by answering with "God"?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by forall2see

Originally posted by AQuestion
I do mean to challenge. If you choose to constantly post on the Faith forum and tell us that we are stupid and that science has all the answers then riddle me this. Explain how multi-universes and quantum physics makes sense? Please do, I know the theories quite well. I will make it even easier, read this article and come back and explain it with simple, straight forward words that everyone will understand, if it is so sensible than this should be easy. It is the current state of science so it must make sense, right? How bout this, would you feel better if I came on the Science site and endlessly told you about God? I posted there once, I quoted Dawkins and nobody agreed with him when he said the only thing we knew was real was matter, because he violated the science that we do know with that statement.

When the multiverse and many-worlds collide

Have fun kids. Don't forget, if you prove multiple realities are possible, you just proved heaven and hell are possible, have fun with that.


When I think of multiple realities, the first thing that comes to mind is DREAMING.

In a dream we can create our own understanding of our surroundings and/or our sub conscience creates them for us to visualize and experience.

I'm no pro on the matter being discussed. This is just my take on things as presented in the OP.

Speaking of the OP, and now a little off topic. Debate and discussion is a great opportunity to enhance ones perception on certain topics such as this one. Done in a respective light, it can be quite constructive and open peoples eyes to knew ideas and ways of thinking. Personal attacks on the people posting in regards to your OP... well that is just uncalled for in my opinion.

I've seen examples of belittling, name calling and outright rudeness on your part, when all people were trying to do was express opinions on your topic. As a fellow member of ATS, I'm pretty sure that there's a part of you deep down inside that's better than that. Like the one who might feel like they owe a few people here an apology for being so rude and nonconstructive.

Peace...


Dear forall2see,

I had so much hope for you when I read your first words, then you attempted to make the question about my attitude rather than the question, another failed attempt to misdirect. Your answer, in short is it is like a dream and I am not nice, go back and read the OP, I didn't say I was nice, the question doesn't go away even if I am nice and you didn't answer it and neither did anyone else.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


You asked THREE questions in the OP.

Which ONE was it that you wanted answered?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Gastrok
reply to post by AQuestion
 


You asked THREE questions in the OP.

Which ONE was it that you wanted answered?


Dear Gastrok,

I don't want to tax your thinking, how bout you answer this, "Explain how multi-universes and quantum physics makes sense?" explain how parallel universes make sense in science. I gave a link to the article, read it and explain it in simple terms to the rest of us and show us how it is obvious or a matter of faith. Does that make it easier for you?



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