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This Forum Should Be Closed Down !

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posted on May, 14 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by weedev

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by weedev
 


Minor point - but it's not just jet engines. Prop planes also make contrails - they just didn't fly that high, except during wartime.



Great info on prop planes Uncinus, my opinion still stands on the grounds of the amount of jet traffic now at that altitude.



Even in the last 15 years, we have seen the regional airlines that used to fly turboprops, transition to mostly jets too. The Beech 1900, and ATR 42 were commonly used, now its mostly Canadair CRJ variants, and Embraer series jets.




posted on May, 14 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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Im only alive for 30 years and even notice the difference in the skies..

Now, it's in our games too, conditioning us for it to be normal...

imageshack.us...

(Screenshot from airport simulator)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by ProRipp
 

Dot be too worried about it my friend. Thats how it is in so many forums. At the end of the day we are usually not 100% certain of most of the things we discuss here on ATS, but on the other hand its irritating when people just refute for refuting sake



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Romekje
Im only alive for 30 years and even notice the difference in the skies..

Now, it's in our games too, conditioning us for it to be normal...

imageshack.us...

(Screenshot from airport simulator)


What about that picture is not normal?....it shows a plane leaving a contrail.

I'm nearly 50 years of age.......believe me, the skies look exactly the same as they did when I was a lad, the only difference is there are more planes.

The OP is right though.......this forum needs closing down, just not for the reasons he states.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by A boy in a dress
If we accept the idea that the Powers-That-Be are forcing commercial airlines to
deposit chemicals in the air and privately doing it with specially-altered acraft,
then we must assume the pilots don't know they're doing it.


No we mustn't asume that altogether at all. Many of the pilots said to be using the many unmarked white military type planes are likely fully aware they are releasing *something*, the military has performed numerous open air and other tests over populations for decades, (i.e. Clouds of Secrecy). They may well be told it is to fight 'global warming' as may be any commercial pilots, any programs would likely be compartmentalized on a need to know basis.. Any programs like this these would likely too make use of confidentiality agreements. Also simple addition or carbon, sulpur, barium, aluminum, silver iodide, etc. mixing into the exhaust stream, undetected or not, could be completely automated, either by sensors, GPS etc. simple really.


Would you involve yourself in a programme that 'dumps' chemicals on innocent
people and possibly loved ones and relations?
If you refused, would you stay silent and watch as supposed dangerous sprays
were emitted from the skies onto your house and family?


You mean like the dozens and dozens of open air tests? We'll I don't know, would you? Would you give your kids depleted uranium munitions to scatter across themselves the world, shoot them up with mercury or experimental vaccines, floridate them, put toxic additives in their food, again I don't know but seems some people would. And the range of 'harm' in the different programs and 'tests' will obviously have different outcomes, some may not cause immediate health problems, some may cause none, and some may be very toxic. I don't see a history of the habit of military/industrial concerns going out of their way to keep citizens in the loop of their latest weapons tests. In fact I see very much the exact opposite.


What about the folk who work at airports...? Are they threatened and accept that
they must stay silent as they watch their kids sucking in possible lethal aerosol

particles?

Again why would they have to know all or even any of the details. The military will do what the military does, but civilians that have to know will only be told some convenient story or have to sign confidentiality agreements.


Must we assume that there's a guy somewhere who takes out the trash at the
private airstrips, that has seen these sinister clandestine activities -but never
added everything together to work out why the weather is different than years
ago or his grand-child is sick all the time?


Possibly there is, any such person aware would be quickly discredited, fired (if he broke the agreement) and possibly retaliated against. This should be self evident.


Here in the real world, the grown-ups wouldn't allow this, would they?
Unless they agree that the substances aren't harmful to their wives/husbands
and kids.


Well, read back through the replies, though many 'grown-ups' wouldn't if they could help it, just look around and see what many 'grown-ups' have done and are doing to the world and themselves and families. Again, seems self evident in the world I live in.


Then why keep it hush-hush?


Read all of the above, it should be reasonably apparent.
edit on 14-5-2011 by Tecumte because: quote marks added



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 



What do you think is being sprayed on the worlds population?

What do you think it is doing to us?

Why put chemicals in aviation fuel to harm us.........why not put it in auto mobile fuel?



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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It's funny when someone looks up at the sky for the first time and notices a contrail and immediately concludes it is a government conspiracy.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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In my travels I came across this email were supposedly 6000 odd people died of respiratory failure within 2 weeks after "Tests" in military spraying were carried out in the UK in 1999.


> LINES IN THE SKY IDENTIFIED!! > SAMPLES are ANALYZED!!!

> > The lab director of Aqua-tech Environmental using samples taken from JP-8 contaminated Þelds of Maryland and Pennsylvania, reported today (9/18/97) that ethylene dibromide, otherwise known as EDB, has been the contaminate in the fuel and water samples taken of submitted by farmers, pilots and tanker drivers.

EDB is one of the most tightly controlled EPA substances and was banned in 1983 due to its carcinogenieity. EDB is a pesticide that apparently is being placed in the jet fuel and dispersed on a daily, almost non-stop basis in our skies. The lines Þlling our skies are not contrails. The lines are dispersed and may linger for hours, slowly Þltering down to unsuspecting pests, and I guess we¹re the PESTS.



Full email here

I little more to add
www.netowne.com...
edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by CouncilOfNine
 


Your link doesn't work.

No way did 6000 people die here in the UK (or anywhere else for that matter) as a result of anything sprayed from an aircraft



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Argyll
 

And I am sure you have proof of this.............do you????

Link has been fixed

You probably don't believe in aliens or the NWO either I suppose.
edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by CouncilOfNine
reply to post by Argyll
 

And I am sure you have proof of this.............do you????


He has proof you have no evidence to support the claim. The proof being that if you had the evidence you would present it, and you are not presenting any evidence. Hence it's just another random claim.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by Tecumte
 


What do you think is being sprayed on the worlds population?


If I take all of the evidence that I have available (and others have here as well) and weigh it all out, my best 'hypothesis' is that the bulk of what many are seeing in many parts of the world, is advanced weather modification and/or perhaps warfare use. Where I live locally, without actual chemical analysis, I would have to *speculate* that fuel additives such as those numerously mentioned are used to allow planes to run 'dirty' for various periods in order to build cloud banks to be manipulated by payloads from other planes and/or land and sky based electronics. As many different other programs too have come to light over decades, I would add what others may be seeing and experiencing in their own locations may be different than what is happening where I live and perhaps even on a personal level much more detrimental. On a macro scale I think it's bad bad news for anyone(s) to 'Own The Weather' and to use it as another weapon and tool for 'social enginering'.


What do you think it is doing to us?


Depend's on who you mean by 'us'? Personally where I live, the biggest effect is loss of sunlight and 'natural clouds' and often during the 'blitz' by dozens of these planes in a very short time, a fuel type smell in the air. I am fully aware though of 'leading' people of a 'eugenics' mindset and how 'health problems' have become a pillar of economic 'growth', and the vast history of using an endless amount of toxic things on a unsuspecting public with little or no regard for the end results other than perhaps 'profit' and control. These days I rule very little out.


Why put chemicals in aviation fuel to harm us.........why not put it in auto mobile fuel


Again that MAY not be the 'primary' motive in all or even most cases, it's simply still unknown for sure at ths point, IF it happens and how much may just be 'collateral damage'. Why was lead in fuel for so long, why in paint when we saw 2000 years ago it's effects.Why scatter cancer causing radiation from tests across the U.S and world., why do open air tests with pathogens and chemicals, why overdose our children with injected mercury and aluminum and squalene and polysorbate 80, why overdose them with floride, why feed them garbage and watch brain and personality changes, why let them inhale D.U., why use untested vaccines, why do over 100,000 people every year die from legal drug interactions, again because often 'gain' of profit and more power for the few has historically won out over the well being of the masses, often and especially when it is promoted as the exact opposite, for the 'good' of humanity (special interests). Too, and again I rule little out, maybe there are simply people in the world who really don't care what happens to others as long as they achieve their goals, especially when they hide behind walls and walls of buerocracy and layers of 'subordinate' protection.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by CouncilOfNine
reply to post by Argyll
 

And I am sure you have proof of this.............do you????

Link has been fixed

You probably don't believe in aliens or the NWO either I suppose.
edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)


Yes I have proof.......I live in one of the area's mentioned in your ludicrous links.

read my lips.....6000 PEOPLE DID NOT DIE WITHIN A 2 WEEK PERIOD IN 1999 BECAUSE OF ANYTHING SPRAYED FROM AN AIRCRAFT.

what the hell has aliens got to do with any of this?



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by CouncilOfNine
 



I little more to add
www.netowne.com...


That article was written by Will Thomas.

He is a principle behind the perpetuation of the "chem"-trail myth, from its outset. Back in mid 1990s.

I will ry to find the post by firepilot, in other thread....he names several names, as he's got the goods on these guys, and remembers their names better than I can (yet).

Oh, yeah....and ART BELL, and his crap radio show!!! He is behind many, many types of sensationalist claims and hoaxes. He out-Alex Jones'd Alex Jones....before AJ even showed up on scene to do his crap fear mongering, in his style.

It's ALL about the money, baby! Advertisers....profits....income.....




edit on Sat 14 May 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 


When you gather your "evidence" do you take into account weather conditions?

Are you aware of the upper air conditions that are required to form contrails?

What do you consider the difference to be between a "contrail" and a "chemtrail"?.......bearing in mind you are normally observing these trails at approx. 36,000 feet.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by CouncilOfNine
In my travels I came across this email were supposedly 6000 odd people died of respiratory failure within 2 weeks after "Tests" in military spraying were carried out in the UK in 1999.


> LINES IN THE SKY IDENTIFIED!! > SAMPLES are ANALYZED!!!

> > The lab director of Aqua-tech Environmental using samples taken from JP-8 contaminated Þelds of Maryland and Pennsylvania, reported today (9/18/97) that ethylene dibromide, otherwise known as EDB, has been the contaminate in the fuel and water samples taken of submitted by farmers, pilots and tanker drivers.

EDB is one of the most tightly controlled EPA substances and was banned in 1983 due to its carcinogenieity. EDB is a pesticide that apparently is being placed in the jet fuel and dispersed on a daily, almost non-stop basis in our skies. The lines Þlling our skies are not contrails. The lines are dispersed and may linger for hours, slowly Þltering down to unsuspecting pests, and I guess we¹re the PESTS.



Full email here

I little more to add
www.netowne.com...
edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)


Clearly as I and so many others have asserted over and over the difference in *many* trails seen often at the same time and in *reasonably* close proximity to each other is IMO much better explained overall and over time by a difference in the chemical makeup of th exhaust plume (VERY possibly caused by a difference in fuel additives) rather than just a difference in 'atmospheric conditions'. That's fine if 'debunkers' want to disagree, you've made your point,it won't be PROVEN either way at this juncture, I fully agree many more samples need to be taken and there likely is only ONE way that would ever satisfy and constitute 'proof' for 'debunkers' and that is to collect multiple samples at the required altitude. But we all know that's unlikely to happen until at some point someone PROVEN impartial and has the resources does a series of the required sampling.

Too, this difference in trails that I am talking about is not that one trail 'quickly disapates' while the one close to it lingers for awhile and spreads abit,we already KNOW that sometimes happens, what I am talking about instead is a *night and day* difference between a heavy brilliant white smokey looking exhaust being put down in a very very short time by *dozens* of planes often working in a quadrant of the sky to build clouds and THEN often flying off in another direction leaving often NO trail, while the occasional USUAL air traffic flys around and occcasionaly through this nasty soup and leaves little or no trails. All I can say is it is a night and day difference not just in the plume structure but also in the flight paths and what results from these HUGE very apparent differences.

What really needs to happen until actual samples can be obtained at altitude is for concerned people to really start putting even MORE effort into getting samples and high resolution pics and start doing more actual science to PROVE once and for all, Intentional weather modificaton is happening on a LARGE scale (and I don't discount any other programs being implemented), Here are a few things I think most everone could agree would help to potentially understand the methods and materials of any weather mod. especially if any of the materials are truly coming down in the air and rain. The first one deals only with a specific fuel but it is likely far from the only one and I would say having all available fuels tested for composition from a TRUSTED source might shed some additional light if this 'pollution' is based around type of fuel (rather than being 'sprayed' out from sprayers or are just richer burns to produce more carbon/pollution for cloud nuclei as some atmsopheric engineering methods have called for)

Also a link below showing how some trails (no matter their composition) appear to be effecting clouds and weather)




--> 1. Obtain a commercial sample of Stadis 450 and perform LCMS analysis for presence of metals associated with chemtrails.

2. Collect and analyze air samples from locations varying in proximity to major airports that use commercial jet fuel. Use blind labeling of samples and data. Look for any association between metal aerosol in air and proximity to airports.

3. Obtain high power gimball tracking telescope. Record chemtrail aircraft. Check trail dispersal pattern and plane for spray nozzles and spray or exhaust pattern behind aircraft that leave persistent chemtrails. Produce a video with wide angle time lapse and close-up overlay to show whether chemtrails are associated with spray pattern from nozzles or with exhaust gases.


chemtrails.cc...




edit on 14-5-2011 by Tecumte because: link added



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 





Clearly as I and so many others have asserted over and over the difference in *many* trails seen often at the same time and in *reasonably* close proximity to each other is IMO much better explained overall and over time by a difference in the chemical makeup of th exhaust plume (VERY possibly caused by a difference in fuel additives)


How do you know what the chemical make up of any contrail is?......do you have any scientific reports relating to the chemical composition of contrails?



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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Did schools stop teaching about different clouds in the third grade? Like how, why, when, and where they form?

And if barium is dangerous to breath, why do doctors make people swallow it?

sandhoffdisease.webs.com...



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Please enlighten me as to what these photo's are then, water vapour? ....highly unlikely given the colour of the trails in the sun.










What could the purpose of criss crossing a blue sky serve??
Why would they need to cover such large area's??
Why are the planes used unmarked??
Why is there so much secrecy surrounding this type of spraying??


edit on 14-5-2011 by CouncilOfNine because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by CouncilOfNine


Please enlighten me as to what these photo's are then, water vapour? ....highly unlikely given the colour of the trails in the sun.


Highly unlikley why?



Why is there so much secrecy surrounding this type of spraying??



WHAT 'spraying'?



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