What freedoms have we lost Here are a few

reply to post by maestromason


Well I assume that because you are supportive of the system, anybody that spends 5 seconds of research should automatically be against this, you are not, therefore i assume you are uneducated.

The fact that you think you have RIGHTS clearly shows you are not living in the same USA that I am. The police can bust your door down right now, arrest your whole family on false charges, ask the 250+ that have been taken off of death row.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

I'm not saying that any other part of the world is better, the world is doomed, and the USA is the best place to be. Your telling me to not disagree with the people that LIE to you CONSTANTLY?

Sounds like the opinions from a fool if you ask me or anybody with common sense.

Originally posted by Jrocbaby
reply to post by maestromason

 

Well I assume that because you are supportive of the system, anybody that spends 5 seconds of research should automatically be against this, you are not, therefore i assume you are uneducated.

The fact that you think you have RIGHTS clearly shows you are not living in the same USA that I am. The police can bust your door down right now, arrest your whole family on false charges, ask the 250+ that have been taken off of death row.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

I'm not saying that any other part of the world is better, the world is doomed, and the USA is the best place to be. Your telling me to not disagree with the people that LIE to you CONSTANTLY?

Sounds like the opinions from a fool if you ask me or anybody with common sense.

Ehhhh?, Okkkaayyyyy! I have been advanced book learned since the age of 2 1/2, hold 15 certifications, 2 degrees one of which is a Master's, self paid for $100+K education(zero balance), and I own my business. I think you are attempting to bait me into a dense and follyful conversation with you, however since my common sense tells me not to argue with fools I shall listen to it.

BTW... You babel like a madman, and make no sense what-so-ever in your attempt to have an civil, educated debate! People have fought for your right to do what you are doing right now. Never had the police or Feds "bust down my door", and I NEVER TOLD YOU to not agree with whoever it is that lied to you.

What are you into that YOU have to worry about the Feds busting down your door?

Please listen to yourself and use those facilities that schooling taught you to use.


Bottom line is, I enjoy MY LIFE, MY LIVING CONDITIONS AND MY WAY OF LIFE. That is the beauty of America! I never believed in an "American Dream", for all my life I have lived out my potential, and never wanted a day in it! and have everything I ever wanted out of life and the world!

Sounds like it really $ucks 2bu! Keep on trying, you will get there!

reply to post by Terrorist

I hope this doesn't come off as mean, but can you back up all your claims with citations? We can't just take your word for it

Trust me, take his word for it.

Take my word for it too.

Same stuff is happening here in Canada minus the TSA and rainwater, and I bet we are not far behind.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness



Don't blame the government. Blame the stupid few that need rules like this because of a lack of social ettiquette. I am glad that I am protected from my neighbor putting in a hog lot without approval. Some things are just to thwart stupidity of the few.

As a stupid American sheep would say "Love it or leave it"

reply to post by kyred


Where I live the same rules apply as the OP plus, we cannot hang our clothes outside on a clothes line to dry.

Our grass cannot grow longer than 12 inches and yes they actually do have a lawn police that come around and measure it.

Our house must be freshly painted or sided and all outside doors must be in "newer condition" even if you prefer the rustic look.

We cannot have chickens because we are listed as a "residential" sector.

We cannot collect rainwater, it belongs to the government and water companies. See my post why do we have to pay to live on a planet we were born on.......water, air, sunshine and land should be free - who decided the power companies owned the air, water and sun and who decided the banks own the land?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We cannot burn our trash or leaves, in fact with our trash, our paper cartons must be flattened and glass, paper and all recycle stuff must be separated and placed in the blue "recycle bins" while non recyclable materials are to be placed in the non recyclable bin.............you are fined if you do not comply.

Personally, when I mow the lawn, my mower grinds up the leaves and that is additional food for my lawn.

Dogs must be licensed, veternarian care and medicine is very very expensive, we are only allowed three dogs (I wouldn't want more than my one but I have a hugh yard and could easily support 4)

Getting a syringe, is next to impossible unless you have a prescription (which is okay, I don't need one) but it's a "controlled item".

You cannot have a vegetable garden that is seen from the street.

You have to have a permit to erect a fence, shed, almost anything other than a swing set.

Your house, lawn and flower beds must at all times be in pristine condition, ie: freshly painted, or sided, clean windows, no wild flowers because they are too tall, even though they are indigenous to the midwest prarie states.

And the list goes on and on, each year seeing more and more controls tagged on.

Now, while I really like where I live because I'm at the very end of a street and across from me is a field that will never be built on and my neighbors are all super nice - with each passing year, inch by inch more restrictions to our freedoms are put into place.

This video says it all.



On one hand, I can see having a nice clean aesthetically appealing neighborhood, which ours is.........when you drive down our suburban street it is very pretty - the houses aren't fancy rich but they are very well kept and appealing.

I use to live in a neighborhood where the people had a living room cloth sofa in the middle of their front yard (which would be sited so fast in my neighborhood your head would spin).

You must also, in my neighborhood have a permit to hold a garage sale, yard sale or house sale.

Again, just generally where (what state) do you live in, I might want to buy a couple hundred acres there in order to hang my clothes out to dry and have a vegetable garden I don't have to hide.

While my neighbors are very nice, I'de love to have privacy to just sit out in a chaise lounge with no top on. My neighbor comes out to watch me paint my toe nails, he'd really be out there in a flash if I laid out with no top on (I don't think he would report me though).

On one hand I can appreciate people being partially "regulated" or "controlled" I use to live in a neighborhood, where we bought our first house where the folks up the street had a big cloth sofa right out in their front yard and it looked tacky as hell, but the "controlling/regulations" are getting out of hand.

Don't the rest of you see what this "controlling" inch by inch taking our freedoms away is leading up to?

And yes I keep using the word controlling because that is what it is.

It's like the scene in Fahrenheit 451 where everyone is told to go to their door and look out to find the fugitive.........and all the people opening their doors - all the houses looked like townhouses exactly the same, side by side, no privacy, everyone watching and keeping tabs and reporting on everyone else.

As David Icke says, "It's how the few control the many".

You all just don't see it coming do you?

Pretty soon you will be controlled to the point where even your thoughts and what you read are "regulated".

Well, I'm due to take my leave of this third rock from the sun within probably 20 years so the thought police, the chip embedded within the palm of your hand designating your life span, the patrolling drones will be your problem not mine..................the rest of you just don't see it coming.

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
I keep seeing rebuttals to our lose of freedoms or restoration of the American way saying what freedoms have you lost. Here is a little list for every one .

What good are those things if our infrastructure is crumbling? The whole highspeed rail thing is a very good idea but those on the right hate it. Think about it for a second. We are not in touch with America anymore. We like to fly over states instead of drive through states. Me personally, high speed rail will be the only way middle class folks can afford to travel in the near future. Big Airline is robbing us blind. Big oil is robbing us blind. Big business in general is robbing us blind.

Maybe it was all those czars Bush appointed into office. I mean really, from 8 czars under Clinton to 33 csars under Bush. That's where all your rights and liberties went.

Riding a train gets us back in touch with America and nature in general. Yet, some just don't want that because its Obama's idea.

I feel soo safe though.

Land of the "free" home of the .......wait for it....wait for it......"Brave"


Last time I checked, brave people weren't so afraid of their own shadow that they would sign away their rights
for some safety.

We truely deserve the country we have and I hope it gets worse....much worse.
I'd be interested to see just how bad things can get before people revolt.
Just tween you an me....it aint gonna happen.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Wow... living in rural England I thought we had it bad with anal compulsive bureaucrats and jobsworths. my heart goes out to you guys and I hope you find a way to change the insanity..

thank you cousin! we may hate your monarchy, but we love the Brits!

unfortunately, the anal-compulsive types have a firm grip on the system and are using it to impose their paranoid will on the masses. Our hearts are certainly with you guys, too. UK is where all this crap started, the British Empire is alive and well and America is a clandestine colony.

They always claim that these laws and regs and taxes are for the good of all, but so few actually benefit from these things, you have to wonder... i feel more and more each day that our governments have become so diseased and bloated with 'fraidy-cat laws that the only way to cleanse them is with fire. either way the british People and the american People are on the same side again.

reply to post by RicoMarston

It is interesting to note, that in order to "own" property, you have to work to pay the tax. IE you can choose to work but you cannot choose not to work, unless you have substancial financial assets to draw from. In that way, the only people who are even marginally "free" are people who have considerable savings.

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Wow... living in rural England I thought we had it bad with anal compulsive bureaucrats and jobsworths. my heart goes out to you guys and I hope you find a way to change the insanity..

thank you cousin! we may hate your monarchy, but we love the Brits!

unfortunately, the anal-compulsive types have a firm grip on the system and are using it to impose their paranoid will on the masses. Our hearts are certainly with you guys, too. UK is where all this crap started, the British Empire is alive and well and America is a clandestine colony.

They always claim that these laws and regs and taxes are for the good of all, but so few actually benefit from these things, you have to wonder... i feel more and more each day that our governments have become so diseased and bloated with 'fraidy-cat laws that the only way to cleanse them is with fire. either way the british People and the american People are on the same side again.

Your welcome and thank you for the response..

A Member of Parliament from my neck of the woods at the turn of the last century called it the "big rot" and that rot has not been excised from either of our systems of governance and in that time the rot has crept into every corner of the system.

Which leaves me feeling sad how mammoth the task is to reverse the damage.

Some laws for want of a better phrase are like using a sledge hammer to crack a small nut.. utterly pointless rules.. and all it does is make people angry knowing they are not listened to in any shape or form..

The locals around here have a hatred of government tech and have started blow up the bits they dislike.. you would think that after 400 separate explosions they might stop and listen to the people.. but nope all they've done is develop bomb proof versions of their tech, which really sums up in my mind how blinkered and deaf they actually are.

But still, I do believe we will overcome the insanity and return to more balanced lives.

Originally posted by openminded2011
It is interesting to note, that in order to "own" property, you have to work to pay the tax. IE you can choose to work but you cannot choose not to work, unless you have substancial financial assets to draw from. In that way, the only people who are even marginally "free" are people who have considerable savings.

You are wrong, You MAY CHOOSE not to work, just be prepared to be what we call a "bum", and "dreg of society", in American culture we do not receive vagabonds like most parts of the world does.

You can choose to do, own and be NOTHING. That you can do!

reply to post by maestromason


Thats exactly what I am pointing out. Choose not to work and you are socially stigmatized. I am not talking about becoming a bum. I am talking about a guy who wants to build a cabin out in the woods and live off the land. You cannot do this because you would have no income to pay taxes.

reply to post by openminded2011


Well Yes you can, it is just the land you own is on US territory and the US has a "No Taxation w/o representation" clause in its constitution. You therefore are represented in the House of Representatives meaning we will only pay taxes that our representatives in a House or Assembly have approved and passed into a law.

Now, if you know what you know then you can finagle around all that, but the top 1.8% only seem to know that formula leaving out the other 98.2% to find out.

What are you going to do?

These are the ways of the world!

reply to post by maestromason

The US Constitution my friend, there is nothing like it on the globe....seriously!

"The Constitution is nothing but a GD piece of paper" www.thepeoplesvoice.org...
But to be fair www.capitolhillblue.com... This doesn't mean it wasn't said it only means the sources are questioned.

Apparently you have not read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the UN. I know its new(1948) and all but I'll take this one over the Constitution any day. www.un.org...

You may bog and bitch about taxes, but in other parts of the world they do not have your basic rights that you have here in the US.

And what, prey tell, are those basic rights? They only apply when convenient. Make a list and I will show contradiction to everyone of them. The taxes go to paying the dept to the Federal Reserve, not to taking care of things in the US. They print more money for that which incurs more dept.

Taxes maintain infrastructure people! How old is everyone on this thread? gheeesh!

Taxes incur dept and falter the economy as they are not set up uniformly for all peoples.

and working? You are suppose to work for a living, you have but 24 hours in a day( 1/3rd for work, 1/3 for rest, and 1/3 for entertainment/social time) total time = living.

And how old are you? This may have been true 50 years ago but the economy and cost of living prohibit this today unless you live off of the hard work of others or maintain residual income for the work you or others did in the past. Yes, a lot of the problem is that people live outside of their means on credit which was never a good Idea to begin with. IMO.

That is where you get an education, skill or trade and apply them so you may afford a "standard of living".

This means very little today do to the rapidness of technological advancements. Collage Grads are usually years behind when entering the work place. Skills and trades have become so specialized in todays world that work is simply not there unless by chance someone needs that specific skill and the way the economy is a lot of people can not afford the specialization.

You are entitled to live the way you want to in the United States.

This is a blatant lie. You can not simply live off the land to support yourself. You must enter into commerce using the unlawful fiat money system to pay for the right to live the way you want.

Now, if you choose to FAIL then be prepared to live under the accepted standard of living and become somewhat of an outcast to society, by applying for welfare, social services, government subsidies, ect.

Failure is often not a choice in this world. It is not your choice to be laid off because the stockholders don't want to loose their profits from living off the hard work of others.

Our U.S. system of government is set up for room for improvement of self.

Again that may have been true years ago, but today its about collecting money and you will be kicked while you are down if you don't comply.

All BS aside including bitching about change that occurs, you are very fortunate if you are an American, and I am not a US hater or lover, I just live and abide by the rules and the regulations of the land I am a citizen in.

It must be nice to be a compliant little monkey(not calling you names simply using a figure of speech). By your statements, you are happy, as your rights are removed slowly and systematically at the rate of 300+ a year on the Federal level alone, wiki.answers.com... , not to mention the countless amounts on a State and local level.

All depends once again on your "standard of living"

Work more earn more

Work less earn less

...it is all relative.

...OR your salary level. Working more does not dictate higher pay in all cases.

I work about that, but due to the nature of my work I can work less time and be compensated the same.

This tells me you make money off of the hard work of others, but this is just speculation on my part.

I know nothing about the Federal Reserve huh? That statement alone tells me that you make very broad assumptions about people you do not even know, including the Africans which from my experience with them are very hard workers who come to the US and work harder than the average American, which they are entitled to.

It may be noted that you did not state your knowledge of the Unlawful Federal Reserve, you changed the subject which tells me you are happy living in deceit and abiding by the laws and regulations of the Crown Temple in finance and Law, and by this implied contentment are happy living under foreign rule.

You don't even know me, and that is fine for you do not have to. All you need to know is that as an American I have rights, entitlements, and freedoms nowhere given under any other government body.

All countries have different Laws and regulations. This statement is true in any nation, some of which are much more Free than the United States. This was IMO, a biased uneducated statement.

Sounds to me that you hate your life as an American, you have the right to do that alone without the Feds coming to get you. Why not renege your citizenship and then you may apply for citizenship under the government of your choice, instead of bitching about it on a public forum like you are!

The freedom of speech and the right to question our government is a right we still have for the moment, Bit#ing is what brings us together to change laws and question authority. Maybe you would be happy in a capitalistic dictatorship, but most of us would not.

Action speaks louder than words my friend. Are you going to live the rest of your days on ATS bitching and moaning about US this and US that, or make the move to the country of your choice and get some happiness in your life?

This is just a ignorant statement. As stated above, change comes from questioning and debate. Are you sure you are American?

What are you into that YOU have to worry about the Feds busting down your door?

Are you kidding? Simply by being on this site as a member shows contempt for TPTB, this is not yet illegal but, By the Patriot Act we are all considered possible terrorists, unless of course you are a paid dis-informant. Not pointing fingers, simply stating fact.

Ehhhh?, Okkkaayyyyy! I have been advanced book learned since the age of 2 1/2, hold 15 certifications, 2 degrees one of which is a Master's, self paid for $100+K education(zero balance), and I own my business. I think you are attempting to bait me into a dense and follyful conversation with you, however since my common sense tells me not to argue with fools I shall listen to it.

This tells me two things, one you have an ego based on your superiority complex. You do not know the people you are speaking to nor do you know, much less, have the ability to comprehend their life experiences or education. For the record, to prove my point, My formal education vastly out ways yours as stated( one of which is a Masters, three of which are PhDs), I too have no dept(I don't believe in credit), I own 37 businesses and pay more in taxes than most people see in a decade. And second, you obviously have contempt for your fellow man shown by name calling and assumptions based on your perceptions of reality.

Never had the police or Feds "bust down my door", and I NEVER TOLD YOU to not agree with whoever it is that lied to you.

Most people have not had their door busted in. That does not mean it does not happen or will not happen. Your Government has been lying to you from your "Birth"(Maritime terminology). Your complete compliance is why it is so hard to make changes within the system to reinstate the Constitution as Law of the Land instead of Statute Law or law of the water on land.

BTW... You babel like a madman, and make no sense what-so-ever in your attempt to have an civil, educated debate!

You said it best here. Are you sure you are not trying to tell yourself something?
I rest my case.

Ladies and Gentlemen your Rights as a Human Being, free from slavery, are gone. You are a slave to the system and their whims. The government knows, those that disagree with the way things are done equal less than 1/3 of the population and can not affect the outcome of their decisions upon your life. Spread the knowledge.

reply to post by James1982

...This very basic principle that NOBODY in America owns their own land is overlooked by most everybody. How can you have a free country if you cant even own property? You can't, and we don't have a free country.....

Not everyone, farmers figured it out and have been shouting it is about to get worse. Remember how you have to pee in a bottle to get work but it is not an invasion of your privacy because you are not REQUIRED to do it... You can decide to starve or steal instead?

This is the same sort of thing and includes 40% of the land in the USA.

Farmers have been fighting the UN/WTO NAIS/Premises ID. Many farms are already in registeres, with or without the farmers permission and The data base is in Canada and thus immune to FOI. Worse before anyone knew what was up an Ag Census booklet went around asking questions about EVERYTHING. You KNOW all that info is now in that computer along with the number. Shades of Nazi Germany and their lists of property held by the Jews....


The Brain dead American people fell for the usual lies "It is for YOUR safety" and allowed the "Food Safety Modernization Act" to be passed.


It does not specifically address NAIS/Premises ID but it DOES have:

SEC. 404. COMPLIANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS.

Nothing in this Act (or an amendment made by this Act) shall be construed in a manner inconsistent with the agreement establishing the World Trade Organization or any other treaty or international agreement to which the United States is a party. www.govtrack.us...

This section gives the UNELECTED World Trade Organization control of our food supply and food safety.


Here is the section that makes NAIS/Premise ID law

(f) Traceback and Surveillance Report- The Secretary shall include in the report developed under subsection (a)(1) an analysis of the Food and Drug Administration’s performance in foodborne illness outbreaks during the 5-year period preceding the date of enactment of this Act involving fruits and vegetables that are raw agricultural commodities (as defined in section 201(r) (21 U.S.C. 321(r)) and recommendations for enhanced surveillance, outbreak response, and traceability. Such findings and recommendations shall address communication and coordination with the public, industry, and State and local governments, as such communication and coordination relates to outbreak identification and traceback.....

SEC. 204. ENHANCING TRACKING AND TRACING OF FOOD AND RECORDKEEPING.

(a) Pilot Projects-

(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 270 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services (referred to in this section as the ‘Secretary’), taking into account recommendations from the Secretary of Agriculture and representatives of State departments of health and agriculture, shall establish pilot projects in coordination with the food industry to explore and evaluate methods to rapidly and effectively identify recipients of food to prevent or mitigate a foodborne illness outbreak and to address credible threats of serious adverse health consequences or death to humans or animals as a result of such food being adulterated under section 402 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 342) or misbranded under section 403(w) of such Act (21 U.S.C. 343(w))....


(A) develop and demonstrate methods for rapid and effective tracking and tracing of foods in a manner that is practicable for facilities of varying sizes, including small businesses;

(B) develop and demonstrate appropriate technologies, including technologies existing on the date of enactment of this Act, that enhance the tracking and tracing of food; and....


(B) consider international efforts, including an assessment of whether product tracing requirements developed under this section are compatible with global tracing systems, as appropriate;...



(c) Product Tracing System- The Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, shall, as appropriate, establish within the Food and Drug Administration a product tracing system to receive information that improves the capacity of the Secretary to effectively and rapidly track and trace food that is in the United States or offered for import into the United States. Prior to the establishment of such product tracing system, the Secretary shall examine the results of applicable pilot projects and shall ensure that the activities of such system are adequately supported by the results of such pilot projects....

Pay attention- THIS is the real I GOTTCHA!

Premises ID -- what the heck is Premises ID???
It is a means of stripping not only property rights but the Constitutional right against no warrant searches!

note the wording used in the NAIS document about registering your premises which puts many of us on guard against any tenet of NAIS. Words have meaning and contracts use certain words to avoid confusion. Those words are premises and stakeholder

And many have been signed up without their knowledge or permission.


You register your premises because you have livestock (even one) and effectively become a sharecropper, clouding title to property. By calling the owner a stakeholder and the property a premises, this is where the gray area of property rights happens.



Stakeholder.....Stakeholders are NOT the owners of the property, they are those who hold the property until the owner is determined.

The effects of a permanently assigned federal number to your land and the usage of the
word 'premise' instead of property is cause for serious alarm.

word premises signifies a formal part of a deed,and is made to designate an estate; to designate is to name or entitle. Therefore a premises has no protection under the United States constitution and has no exclusive rights of the owner tied to it.



Would this property once it has a premise number, even be legal to sell? According to the NAIS document, the premises number stays with the land forever even if there are no animals on it....

The term premises as defined by Webster states: the preliminary and explanatory part of a deed or of a bill of equity [its being identified in the premises of a deed] a. a tract of land with the buildings thereon, a building or part of a building with its appurtenances.



Appurtenances - an incidental right (as in a right of way) attached to a principle property right and passing in possession with it. A subordinate part or adjunct. Accessory objects.


Now on the other hand:


Property is something owned or possessed; a piece of real estate. b. the exclusive right to possess, enjoy, and dispose of a thing: ownership c. something to which a person has legal title....

tech.groups.yahoo.com...

Just get rid of the government.

Problem solved.

reply to post by mwood

But.....

Were all safer for it...

So are my sheep and goats.... Until I want dinner

reply to post by IPILYA


The term is "debt" not "dept".

Your very long winded response just proved to be futility at its finest.

That is how I LIVE. One thing about being an analyst, you deal with just the facts which you did not.

Do you live in the States? if yes, then you pay taxes.

Do you own property? if yes, then you pay taxes.

Do you do business in the US, if yes then you pay taxes

Are you in the top 2 percentile? If yes then all of the above does not apply!

I worked all my life and it never felt like it because I DO WHAT I LOVE, not what I have to do.

The 98% do what they have to do, I DO AS I PLEASE!

As for being wealthy it pays to keep your nose in the proper know.

*****IPILYA's opinion does not apply to US law and therefore regardless of your long-winded OPINIONATED responses YOU PAY TAXES! Don't like it, move out of the country! There are flights taking off to all cardinal points on the globe, catch one!

Your opinionated, long-winded poor excuse of a break-down shows me you hate the facts.

Question? Why are you on ATS instead of the US Government shaking and moving the very laws you despise?

Bottom line!

That is the way it is, don't hate me for being successful, and if you ever want to have a "meeting of the minds" just name the place and make sure that you have 10 minutes for me to put you in your place!


*Hey ATS Owners & Admins, I though you guys were doing something about these bots, and rule breakers!