Ron Paul A Distaster For The USA. Hes Always Wrong. Why Is There So Much Love For Him ? Wrong Paul

Originally posted by LexiconRiot

Originally posted by parrothead0333
reply to post by gorgi

 

I just wanted to say you are entitled to you opinion but just a couple things in response.

1. The Federal Reserve is not a body of government! Its holding our country hostage and is the number one reason why our dollar is collapsing and the price of everything is skyrocketing.

2. You really believe the DHS is protecting us? All they are doing is taking away our freedoms in the name of protecting us from harm. I am sorry but we do have a military and I can protect myself if need be. DHS is just another unnecessary government agency.

3. The IRS are a bunch of thugs that seek to simply get somebody for making a mistake on their taxes and then charging interest and penalties so they can take more and more money. The IRS needs to be abolished or in the very least their needs to be a fair tax and the IRS can only collect that and prosecute those that intentionally avoid paying their taxes.

The fact that you see the police state in everything scares me. The IRS is a necessary evil. One that needs more funding to go after those corps like GE that are able to turn a profit and still get a Tax return. How is this not obvious? Making a mistake happens and that is fine but there are far more cheats and people attempting to skirt taxes all together then there are mistakes.

The problem is very low tariffs on american brand products produced overseas. Without some form of protectionism(yes I know it sounds bad but its a necessary evil in case people have not figured it out yet) there will be no manufacturing left in the good ole' usa.

The same applies to european brand products. They are fleeing to eastern europe and asia as well due to low cost of production there. The lower the cost of labor, the higher the profit margin on products sold in europe and usa. Yes consumers get a big break in terms of cheaper merchandise but what good is that if you don't have the job you are looking for? Everyone can't be a taxi driver or house painter and even if they are--not enough money to afford anything other than basic survival items.

The standard of living goes way down, the government collects less sales tax and foreign revenue cannot be taxed. I am not even a bookkeeper but this stuff is cut&dry and you don't need to be a bookkeeper/accountant to see what the problem is.

As for "knock off" products/generic merchandise I see no problem with that. If people want to buy chineese, russian brand name stuff and pay less fine. Small tariffs ok since people are getting inferior merchandise and should not pay a premium price.

To conclude my monologue, the only police state I see is an oligarchy-corporate-plutocracy-gone wild. Its time to start reigning those clowns in with strong government somehow. Good luck!

While Paul may have good ideas,

there is no way he would ever beat Obama in 2012 election.

Originally posted by hillynilly
While Paul may have good ideas,

there is no way he would ever beat Obama in 2012 election.

What do you base your assertion on? He has my vote and the votes of many others.

I have been watching the ATS website for some time now. However, for some reason, had not become a member despite how informative and "Real" the members seemed to be. Good work ATS!
The reason my recent membership was established, was to say how strongly I feel toward the self opinionated, convoluted, almost prophetic way this thread represents all that is wrong with this country. Now while I respect other's right to post opinions, it is difficult to imagine there are still people who live in this country that really believe that nothing is wrong here. Those in charge of this country have been caught lying, cheating, embezzling, and the list goes on. The horrors those in charge have instigated upon their own people, one would think, would cause EVERYONE to question what is going on. Why must it be so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, someone unlike the others might have a better idea?
I will not say I am entitled to believe all Ron Paul may offer, but at least he seems to understand (and respond) to not only the voice of the people, but those issues with which most are occupied. In the end, isn't that what government was supposed to represent? The VOICE of the people, not only what they think is good for Us.

Written as an opinion only. Thank you ATS!

Originally posted by gorgi
The DOE oversees the US energy, inspections, research ect. The DHS keeps us safe. FEMA responds to disasters. The federal reserve is a very important body of the government.

you are uninformed. Ron Paul is the only one who actually sounds human to me. You would like to remain a slave to the federal reserve??? The fact that you believe that the fed is a legit body of the government means that you know nothing about reality. I didn't get this info from Ron Paul or anyone else, I know it to be true, and you can too, if you truly look within yourself.

The DHS keeps us safe???

reply to post by hillynilly


According to recent poll, he's currently the one with the best chance - and with fair coverage and more people getting an honest representation of his views, I'd expect the gap to narrow and eventually reverse.

Also, he's the only one who can outflank the republicans both from the right and Obama from the left. Once again, I present the article Ron Paul: A Lesser Evil? to showcase Ron's progressive credentials as compared to Obama's progressive failures.

You have thoughts on anyone else who might oust Obama, and their qualifications to actually do so?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Corporatism is an issue with a large government as well. When politicians are literally owned by the corporate powers, legislation often protects corporate interest over civilian interest, even government interest. And as we have seen since 2007 the Government is willing to merge with corporate powers in order to keep both it's corporate and governing powers in tact. Who's interest is served? Certainly not our interest.

Outside of Monopoly legislation, I see no reason for Government to be involved with corporate affairs. Under a normal, non-Fascist system, nearly all of the largest corporations in the US would have failed in the past 10 years. Some think that's a bad thing, but I know the point of Capitalism is that smaller businesses would have filled the void.

Now we have skeletons of AIG, GM, GE, Bank of America, Citi, Chase, Goldman, etc etc etc etc etc all filling a massive void in the economy with fake books, fake numbers, fake profits while piling the liabilities on the tax payer through shell corporations and monstrosities concocted by an unelected Reserve board.

Government has proven it's incompetence in regards to our economy. Repeatedly.

I am not arguing the sentiment ROCKPUCK... But, your perspective fails to recognize the fact that corporations
will continue to lobby the government. Can you explain why corporations routinely lobby against "big government"
consumer based regulation, the literally spend Billions on it. But you believe that pacifying the regulatory side will somehow stop their crusade of insanity... Then you have the supreme court systematically giving legal advantage to corporations

www.statesman.com...

The class action helped keep corrupt corporate action at bay because it is the only way to address small dollar grievances, which are otherwise too expensive to justify legal expense, times thousand to millions of individuals.
This ruling in short creates a legal vent for corporate fraud and abuse as past/recent contract common law makes unconscionable contracts voidable... Another win for corporate personhood, above the law as usual.

You see it as the government trying to merge corporate power to encompass both.

Yet, who is it that funds the politicians initial venture?

PAul expressly says he will not interfere with business, again, business will have a clear avenue to lobby the government and the government will not address the validity of the overture, because government does not interfere with business.

Maybe I missing something, but how can you stop the rise of corporatism, by expanding their horizons?

reply to post by gorgi


LOL. Is this thread a joke?... Please tell me you are kidding because if you aren't, you have a lot of explaining to do. "TRAP" as you call it, was good? Yeah, because government intervening in the economy and propping up corporations that should have failed is a good practice, right? Are you a communist?

The reason why those companies should've been allowed to fail is because of a little thing we call "free market economics". You let the market sort itself out; never intervening. The demand for goods and services coming from people like you and me when a company fails is quickly supplied by the smaller companies that take its place, and grow as a result.

Just like when a drug cartel is destroyed or its leader killed, the smaller cartels vying for power fill the void and take the old cartel's place. That's why killing Pablo Escobar brought us nowhere closer to ending the drug trade. (He was merely the biggest threat to the status quo's power; it was never about ending drug trafficking). That's one of the major things that drives competition in the market; smaller companies seek to grow, and when the bigger companies fail, the power vacuum is filled. This is simple supply and demand.

But now that our administration (this isn't a strike at obama. this has been going on for decades now) is "By the corporation, For the corporation", they bailed out their CEO friends' businesses so the power vacuum never took place... What occurred was the crappy companies which were fraudulent or bankrupt because their goods weren't desired or they lacked ingenuity, were kept afloat. They should have failed, but didn't, and are still allowed to continue their practices today, thanks to our tax dollars.

You sound like one of those people that was told when watching some major TV News that by saving those companies from failing, they saved the economy... You've literally taken what was told to you by someone whose SALARY IS PAID by these corporations as an absolute truth, and now defend it as if you actually know what you are talking about and it's "The American Way" or whatever empty philosophy you subscribe to. Well to be blunt you do not know what you are talking about, at all... and need to read a book on Austrian Economics.

I could prove about 90% of your other empty arguments with documented facts but this subject alone took up a ton of room, and even if I documented everything, you probably suffer from the psychological condition known as "cognitive dissonance" and are unable to be reasoned with using actual facts.

Good luck out there in the world... Because if you think the 1-5% of people who are driving the gigantic income gap between themselves, and us (the other 95-99% of people), have your best interests in mind, and strive to make America and its people a burgeoning bastion of freedom, wealth and justice...

Well then you are going to have a major difficulty living in the world without getting burned by people willing to take advantage of someone like you. If you truly believe that "the powers that be" are telling you the honest truth all of the time, to the best of their ability to inform us all, then I only have pity for you. It's really sad to see someone defend totally and completely something they have a complete misunderstanding of, and trust people they've never met who make billions off of lying to them every single day.

Sorry for being so harsh and critical, but you're spewing lies. And I won't sit idly by and let someone with a warped perception of reality drive home the false propaganda that is confusing my countrymen and keeping them from taking action and bringing back that justice and wealth I was talking about. This needs to end, and it starts by putting the propagators of lies in their place... whether you do it to misinform others on purpose or not. There is no time left to be spent bulls****ing everyone when everything in our world is falling apart.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

So why does the conservative supreme court keep advancing corporate personhood???

The political notion of conservative changed dramatically in 1964 and in 1980 - you guys are the corporatist now
once you adopted trickle down nonsense

Originally posted by someguy420

Originally posted by gorgi
The DOE oversees the US energy, inspections, research ect. The DHS keeps us safe. FEMA responds to disasters. The federal reserve is a very important body of the government.

you are uninformed. Ron Paul is the only one who actually sounds human to me. You would like to remain a slave to the federal reserve??? The fact that you believe that the fed is a legit body of the government means that you know nothing about reality. I didn't get this info from Ron Paul or anyone else, I know it to be true, and you can too, if you truly look within yourself.

The DHS keeps us safe???

hahaha yeah apparently the attempts being made to take away everyone's Second Amendment Rights to defend themselves from enemies is their way of protecting us for us so we don't have to. How convenient! hahah

Originally posted by robyn
reply to post by Janky Red

 

To condemn free-market capitalism because of anything going on today makes no sense. There is no evidence that capitalism exists today. We are deeply involved in an interventionist-planned economy that allows major benefits to accrue to the politically connected of both political spectrums. One may condemn the fraud and the current system, but it must be called by its proper names — Keynesian inflationism, interventionism, and corporatism.

www.lewrockwell.com...

Ron Paul's approach makes the most amount of sense. Please refer to the above link for additional statements Dr Paul made on the House floor in 2002 that are germain to this discussion.

edit on 7-5-2011 by robyn because: speling

ah but meanwhile, there are a whole handful of politicians who push the worst kinds of cronyism under the guise of the "free market". A complete and under dismantling of the laws and principles that made the regulation work.
Which did not change the fact the something was regulated, it only created loopholes and points of exploit for
business's.

was all the rage of the free market champions a decade past

en.wikipedia.org...–Leach–Bliley_Act

Ron Paul is ok in terms of bravery but not so good in terms of solutions offered.

Isolationism is not good unless you want to become another north korea, cuba or iran.

At least those three countries became isolationist out of necessity; two out of outdated communsim and one out of outdated religion.

America is going to become isolationist due to small government, borderline anarchism? That would be ridiculous for sure!

Dennis Kucinich is just as honest and brave with a more realistic approach to problems, yet he rarely gets any mention. Either he enjoys being out of the limelight or the PTB ignore him cause he goes too far against the globalist agenda. Not sure which is true............

Originally posted by robyn

Originally posted by hillynilly
While Paul may have good ideas,

there is no way he would ever beat Obama in 2012 election.

What do you base your assertion on? He has my vote and the votes of many others.

He has my vote.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Ron Paul is ok in terms of bravery but not so good in terms of solutions offered.

Isolationism is not good unless you want to become another north korea, cuba or iran.

At least those three countries became isolationist out of necessity; two out of outdated communsim and one out of outdated religion.

America is going to become isolationist due to small government, borderline anarchism? That would be ridiculous for sure!

Dennis Kucinich is just as honest and brave with a more realistic approach to problems, yet he rarely gets any mention. Either he enjoys being out of the limelight or the PTB ignore him cause he goes too far against the globalist agenda. Not sure which is true............

Yes

Ron Paul has some good solutions, until it comes to dealing with corporatism

www.actuarialoutpost.com...

Government regulations present the greatest threat to privacy and consumers' loss of control over their own personal information. In the private sector, individuals protect their financial privacy as an integral part of the market process by providing information they regard as private only to entities they trust will maintain a degree of privacy of which they approve. Individuals avoid privacy violators by `opting out' and doing business only with such privacy-respecting companies.

Mr. Paul please tell us which user content based website can be used without agreeing to a pre-stipulated contract?

Individuals avoid privacy violators by `opting out' and doing business only with such privacy-respecting companies.

YES Ron and I suggest people should piss on forest fires to gain more effective fire control

Ron Paul wouldn't close all those agencies immediately. He'd make sure the people are on his side first.

"I believe a president shouldn't be a king, he has to persuade and get the people and Congress to agree. Can you close down the fed? Not as a president you can't, but you can lead the charge."
-- Ron Paul

Ron Paul on Hannity

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Ron Paul is ok in terms of bravery but not so good in terms of solutions offered.

Isolationism is not good unless you want to become another north korea, cuba or iran.

At least those three countries became isolationist out of necessity; two out of outdated communsim and one out of outdated religion.

America is going to become isolationist due to small government, borderline anarchism? That would be ridiculous for sure!

From www.ronpaul.com...

America first. That is what Ron Paul‘s national defense proposal is all about. And with America he means all Americans, not just the elite. If elected President, Ron Paul will continue his efforts to secure our borders, hunt down the 9/11 terrorist planners (who are still at large), safely withdraw our troops from Iraq and other countries around the world, and finally overhaul the intelligence apparatus in cooperation with intelligence professionals rather than political opportunists.

*****

Ron Paul is not an isolationist. Labeling him as such is simplistic, inaccurate and is, quite frankly, disinfo myth.

Ron Paul has repeatedly voted for measures that protect our nation and combat terrorism.

michaelgriffith1.tripod.com... offers a summary of some of Dr Paul's positions and votes relating to our national security.

His approach is intelligent and pragmatic.

Originally posted by BillShears
Ron Paul wouldn't close all those agencies immediately. He'd make sure the people are on his side first.

"I believe a president shouldn't be a king, he has to persuade and get the people and Congress to agree. Can you close down the fed? Not as a president you can't, but you can lead the charge."
-- Ron Paul

Ron Paul on Hannity

Sounds good to me. Much better than the neo fascist state in which we currently reside.

People can really fail to see the trees through the forest sometimes.

I think we all agree things are broken. We all know things need to be changed. Its plain and obvious to all that the current way things happen is not in the best interest of the American people.

Where I defer from the ones who attack me for my lack of support for Paul, is that I think things can be fixed without tearing it apart. I think Paul's ideas are far too drastic. I also do not think the government is "too big". I think its focused in the wrong places. This is due to corporatism. I think smaller government would make this a bigger issue than it already is. Paul does not answer for this. Great ideals but flawed logic.

reply to post by gorgi


He wants to fix things and if you cant see that I dont know what else to tell you...the federal reserve is the reason were in debt so much...who really cares if we can print all the money we want we never have to cut spending. The IRS is a joke...Fema when do they even actually help people there always late responding to disasters...I give him credit for thinking the OLD way I hope he destroys all these companies and everything else that falls with it and put the people BACK IN POWER sh|t we are in power you all just dont realize it

reply to post by Janky Red

Can you explain why corporations routinely lobby against "big government"

They aren't .. they are against certain types of policy from big government. So you'd have to ask your self why they also lobby equally, if not more, for certain legislation. From big tax breaks, contracts, opening resources, need I mention the Military Industrial Complex?

Many of our largest corporations thrive on Big Brother. While banks might lobby to have less regulation, McDonalds lobbies to ignore illegal immigration.

Then you have the supreme court systematically giving legal advantage to corporations

which, imo, is a Big Gov issue.. because there isn't a single philosophy of Capitalism that says "corporations are people". Or that they even have the same rights. Corporations were founded to be an instrument to redeligate responsibility away from people.

For the record, I am anti-Corporate. Anything. I personally think all forms of corporate charters should be abolished. You can have capitalism without Corporatism.

The class action helped keep corrupt corporate action at bay because it is the only way to address small dollar grievances, which are otherwise too expensive to justify legal expense, times thousand to millions of individuals.

It's also a way to make a tiny claim into a multi-billion dollar claim, passing expenses to the consumer. Most class action lawsuits are frivolous. It creates a loophole for corporations, it equally protects consumers from paying for other peoples stupid mistakes.

PAul expressly says he will not interfere with business, again, business will have a clear avenue to lobby the government and the government will not address the validity of the overture, because government does not interfere with business.

Agreed. I don't agree with everything Paul says. IMO, the only way to remove Corporate power and influence from Government is to either abolish Government or Corporations. The wealthy and the power will always regulate government.. what we need is a harmonic bled where a check and balance system can regulate the direct control of corporate influence over politicians. Naturally, no politician would ever try and regulate the source of campaign funds.. the whore simply doesn't smack the pimp.

I like Capitalism over Fascism (merging State and Corporate power/influence)