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Ron Paul A Distaster For The USA. Hes Always Wrong. Why Is There So Much Love For Him ? Wrong Paul

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posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by LexiconRiot

Originally posted by robyn

Originally posted by LexiconRiot

Originally posted by robyn

Originally posted by LexiconRiot
I find it mind blowing that the biggest proponents of small government is BIG business. There is a reason for this. Smaller government makes it easier to control the resources. This would not be a pull your self up by the boot straps deal it would equate to modern day slavery. The issue is not the size of the government, it is that the government is in bed with BIG business. There is no free and open market. Think it this way: Wal-Mart places 6 stores in 10 miles kills small businesses then closes 3 stores to streamline profits. Ideals are nice but the reality is people want small government so they can buy bigger TVs and more cushy items. Be damned with thy neighbor.

Again REFORM not BREAK.

Well...I obviously hit a nerve. We were having a real discussion.

I think you are confused with regard to "small government" v. "limited government". The big, over reaching government that you defend has made the abuses you cite not just possible but highly probable. When government over reaches is Constiutional powers corruption becomes endemic.

Ron Paul defends the government limiting itself to its constitutionally defined powers and leaving to State's government all powers not delegated to the Federal govermnent.

I suggest you read Article 1 Section 8 of our Constitution. Its quite clear.

topics.law.cornell.edu...






edit on 7-5-2011 by robyn because: spelling


I think you are confused with the Ideology vs Reality argument here. The issue is not the over reach of government. It is that the overreaches are perpetrated by the lobbiests who control the government!


I am not in the least confused. You are atempting to confuse the issue. Reread my post. It's clear.

Anyhow, nice use of Rule 8 * of Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsly (Barrack Hussein Obamas inspiration):

RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)


This is silly talk. You give Obama FAR too much credit sir. We can make these rules apply to anything. Please stop with the silliness and attempt to have a real discussion.




posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by LexiconRiot
 


Look, I don't need you to tell me to calm down. Your are neither a parental figure nor are you in charge.

I hear the crap that you are shoveling. It's incorrect and is filled with so much wrong info it's not even funny or amusing anymore.
You want to believe in the crap you are pitching, that's fine. The tooth fairy will be by soon with Santa Clause to drop off your presents.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by parrothead0333
reply to post by gorgi
 


I just wanted to say you are entitled to you opinion but just a couple things in response.

1. The Federal Reserve is not a body of government! Its holding our country hostage and is the number one reason why our dollar is collapsing and the price of everything is skyrocketing.

2. You really believe the DHS is protecting us? All they are doing is taking away our freedoms in the name of protecting us from harm. I am sorry but we do have a military and I can protect myself if need be. DHS is just another unnecessary government agency.

3. The IRS are a bunch of thugs that seek to simply get somebody for making a mistake on their taxes and then charging interest and penalties so they can take more and more money. The IRS needs to be abolished or in the very least their needs to be a fair tax and the IRS can only collect that and prosecute those that intentionally avoid paying their taxes.



The fact that you see the police state in everything scares me. The IRS is a necessary evil. One that needs more funding to go after those corps like GE that are able to turn a profit and still get a Tax return. How is this not obvious? Making a mistake happens and that is fine but there are far more cheats and people attempting to skirt taxes all together then there are mistakes.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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If I'm an idiot for getting excited about Ron Paul then I'm an idiot. The guy actually talks like a founding father. Why has that become so taboo? When did the idea that people should be capable of thinking for themselves become uncool? As for me I want the government out of my business. If I fall on my face I'm perfectly capable of picking my self up. If I can't so be it. All I ask is no one put a boot to my back and keep me down. Oh this debt will soon make this statement all to real. Is Ron Paul my "knight in shining armor"? No, but he is a guy who believes in the constitution like I do.....



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Please provide one example of my "wrong info"? More attempts to simply discredit.

I think that the real disinfo agents and the like are more likely to disrupt logical debate via constant discrediting, than they are to simply stir the pot with objecting points of view. Easier to divide people who fight amongst themselves.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by LexiconRiot
 

Silly conspiracy theorist Gorgi and I are very different people. Sadly you will never be convinced of this because you are so paranoid that you see doom and gloom in everything.


Exactly what Gorgi would say, you've outed yourself!
(that's a joke...)

Just for clarity, I don't personally see doom and gloom in everything. This nation and its people have a lot of potential, and even succeed in doing a lot of good. But we could do a lot better, and have slipped from our founding ideals of non-intervention, liberty, and the rule of law.

How many of our brothers, fathers, sons, mothers, etc., have died in a country that we were afraid *might* do something to us some day - and conversely, how many of that country's people died in the 90s as a result of sanctions and no-fly zones? How many have died since 2003, how many chased from their homes by war and strife - and how many born deformed as a result of DU?

How much suffering in Afghanistan to supposedly swat a gadfly to make us safer - only to be told we are now less safe and more likely to be attacked in revenge? How much money wasted on all these ventures? Have we gone up or down in the eyes of the world as a result? I see no other current politician willing to realistically address any of these points.

How much privacy and liberty lost? Now we have a government that listens to all of our phone calls, watches all our internet usage, tracks us, checks our library records. Enforcers who stomp on protest and rally and use agent provocateurs to incite something that can be responded to. Free speech "zones". Heck, stand up and turn your back on our secretary of state while she speaks, and you will be dragged out and arrested. How many non-violent locked away, how many victims in the crossfire of this drug war? How many victims of gangs and cartels as a result of prohibition making this a profitable and highly-contested market? I see no other current politician willing to really even try to address any of these points.

How many lies told to go into Iraq, Vietnam? How many secret coffins from Iraq in the night? How many actually dead in these needless struggles...how much hope and faith betrayed?

I see unsustainable debt and greater heartache and austerity to come regardless if our spending is not addressed soon - Bernanke and Geithner have recently said as much.

I see a path we cannot continue on, and not many willing to acknowledge it, let alone offer solutions for it. One must remember, as I always state, the authority and capability of a president to enact certain changes and realize that one's more jarring views would be tempered by congress and the people's needs. I do not see doom and gloom, I see a republic fallen from its original values that is no longer the land of the free (with the highest incarceration rate in the world) or the home of the brave (a populace so terrified by boogeymen and some perceived inability of itself, its state and local leaders to address anything that it must pass all this off to political wizards on the east coast who somehow know better despite a proven record of bloat, waste, inefficiency, and questionable moral substance).
edit on 5/7/2011 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I mean really I don't think it can get much worse than what we have been having the last 50 years or so.


Well here is the rub

Can you tell us which nation of people has more power?

More influence?

More wealth?

In the last 50 America became the super power...


I agree with what you are saying but that is only because capitalism was allowed to flourish in america.

Corporatism started off with central and western european market socialism but could not prosper enough thanks to "big government" of those days. Someone always has the upper hand in any eco-political system and in america its corporations and wealthy people.

The problem is corporations have become to powerful in america during this period and not only threaten america and europe but the entire world. There needs to be checks and balances within any system and although that was the case 15-20 years since WW2 corporations through "freedom of speach"(lobbying) have rendered government practically as useless fanboys/cheerleaders. Anti-trust laws are practically meaningless thus we are seeing the development of multinational conglomerates rulling the WTO and bilderberg group.

Do you think its a coincidence so many people were against WTO? Unbalanced trade has lead to crony capitalism and weak governments the world over, as well as reduced taxation and job insecurity.

So america is great in terms of military strength and good paying professional jobs but for everyone else its becoming a living nightmare. The middle class is being reduced to poverty. Its becoming more and more obvious each year imo!



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


I already stated my reasons for the new name. I agree there is good to be found and good to be done. This good can come in reform not deconstruction.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Barack trained ACORN organizers in Class Warfare



When Barack Obama was a "community organizer" and trainer for an ACORN subsidiary, Project Vote, he taught from the 1971 book 'Rules for Radicals', by the late socialist Saul Alinsky. In the photo above-left, Obama is teaching Alinsky's principles of "Power Analysis" and "Relationships built on self-interest" as seen written upon the blackboard [click photo to enlarge.]


From Chapter 1 of Barrack Obama's playbook, Sal Alinsly "Rules for Radicals":

• Community organizers have a Marxist view of society as divided into three rigid "classes".
• Voters divided into typical 'classes' carry 'thermopolitical' labels.
• To community organizers, our legal system exists for the upper class to criminalize the lower class.
• Invoking "hope" is a pre-planned to appeal to the lower class.
• Invoking "change" is a pre-planned to appeal to the middle and lower classes.
• Community organizers believe that folks in the middle class - the majority of our population - are "inert schizoids" who want change but are risk-averse.

theunionnews.blogspot.com...

Please take note of the "hope" and "change". Class warfare, pathological lying to further your goals, and lack of consistant morality (integrity) is just plain dispicable.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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I am not sure why I am even bothering with this thread.... Look what our retarded public education produces here. We are in big trouble, and I thought education was bad when I was in school. I was constantly teaching my teachers, even back then, when they spouted liberally slanted nonesense and called it history. I am glad others have tried to explain to people who might not know all that much, just how wrong this OP is. He hasn't even began campaigning yet really, and already people are spewing BS, he must really scare people I guess.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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seriously most of the people who are bagging on ron paul are the type of people who have close to no idea what they're talking about...but will deny this to the very end...and when proven wrong...they'll still deny that they were even proven wrong...oh and a little observation i've made in this thread is that every person so far who's saying ron paul is bad is a new account...just sayin'



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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US dollar chart. We are currently in the process of losing the reserve status of our currency. China is cashing out its dollars and buying physical. The reason the dollar is in decline is because it is no longer the flight to safety it once was.



Food prices have skyrocketed the last part of the year. The Federal Reserve's continuous printing of money will continue pushing commodities higher across the board. If you understand the deeper economic issues Gorgi you would know that the way the Federal Reserve rates inflation doesn't take into account oil and food prices. It is a sham way to rob the American people and say, "Look, inflation is ok." Inflated food prices and gas is nothing but a heavy tax on the lower and middle class.



You can continue to spout your propaganda that follows hook, line, and sinker with the government mantra. The truth is that we are owned by corporations and corporations take precedent over the people of this country. Without the bailouts big banks would have blown up but the smaller, private banks who didn't rob people with sub-prime mortgages would have taken their place. Sure, we would have had some crazy stuff to deal with, but we would be on our way to recovery instead of on our way to a 2nd recession.






The IMF and S&P have both stated the United States is losing its credibility due to its inability to deal with its debt situation. The above gold and silver charts show where corporations and countries are going for safety instead of investing in the United States.
edit on 7-5-2011 by Bugman82 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRLThe approach
I am not sure why I am even bothering with this thread.... Look what our retarded public education produces here. We are in big trouble, and I thought education was bad when I was in school. I was constantly teaching my teachers, even back then, when they spouted liberally slanted nonesense and called it history. I am glad others have tried to explain to people who might not know all that much, just how wrong this OP is. He hasn't even began campaigning yet really, and already people are spewing BS, he must really scare people I guess.


This is an orchestrated attack on Ron Paul. This is exactly what is taught in Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"

The approach is to instill fear, propagate disinformation, be relentless so as to overwhelm and attack your subject personally.

Unfortunately this is par for the course with this group of political thugs.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I mean really I don't think it can get much worse than what we have been having the last 50 years or so.


Well here is the rub

Can you tell us which nation of people has more power?

More influence?

More wealth?

In the last 50 America became the super power...


I agree with what you are saying but that is only because capitalism was allowed to flourish in america.

Corporatism started off with central and western european market socialism but could not prosper enough thanks to "big government" of those days. Someone always has the upper hand in any eco-political system and in america its corporations and wealthy people.

The problem is corporations have become to powerful in america during this period and not only threaten america and europe but the entire world. There needs to be checks and balances within any system and although that was the case 15-20 years since WW2 corporations through "freedom of speach"(lobbying) have rendered government practically as useless fanboys/cheerleaders. Anti-trust laws are practically meaningless thus we are seeing the development of multinational conglomerates rulling the WTO and bilderberg group.

Do you think its a coincidence so many people were against WTO? Unbalanced trade has lead to crony capitalism and weak governments the world over, as well as reduced taxation and job insecurity.

So america is great in terms of military strength and good paying professional jobs but for everyone else its becoming a living nightmare. The middle class is being reduced to poverty. Its becoming more and more obvious each year imo!


Great points... This is precisely where my problems with Pauls proposed policy exist ~

Paul is not equipped or tempered to deal with corporatism... Meanwhile the supreme court solidifies the notion of
Corporate personhood with rulings that remove the legals checks and balances which impede corporate domination. Paul has expressly stated that he is not willing to intervene in business, unfortunately business
is entirely interested in intervening in governance which is the nature of any good legal/lobby team.

How can crony capitalism die, if you are unwilling to address the business side and are UNWILLING to impede
it from the regulatory side/government? YOU CAN'T

IT is the blind spot which Paul cannot rectify, his sons name is Rand...

Finally why does the corporate world clamor and spend Billions trying to defeat regulation each year???



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by LexiconRiot
 




I think you and I have different views on reform and deconstruction. I think getting rid of redundant departments that don't communicate well and can be handled better via consolidation into previously-existing departments would not be a bad idea.

I think returning control of education to the states would be a fantastic idea as well - perhaps I've missed something, but I believe our performance globally has decreased since Carter introduced the DOE. I think 'deconstruction' and reform can actually be two halves of a whole.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time here as I really want to understand all of this better myself, but I don't see why those who accuse us of doom and gloom for taking into account what we hear even from Geithner and Bernanke themselves (must have more debt or we die!...but if we don't fix the debt soon, we die! - huh?) think doom and gloom would result from cutting spending on unnecessary "defense" (I REALLY can't agree with calling one nation spending more on militarism than the rest of the world put together "defense", even if its actions DO piss off the rest of the world).

I don't see how, instead on constantly giving more taxpayer money to the banks and big business, it's doom and gloom to cut spending and allow people to keep more of their own money.

I don't see how releasing non-violent offenders and treating drugs as a health issue and not a criminal issue, thus saving money on incarceration and prohibition is doom and gloom.

There's just got to be a much better, more sustainable way, and I see Ron Paul being the only one offering any actual course to get there. Yes, if somehow he magically induced all of this suddenly, it would be jarring and destructive - but there's no way he could. I don't see recognition of these issues and what I view as the best currently-offered solutions as being doom and gloom.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by robyn

The approach is to instill fear, propagate disinformation, be relentless so as to overwhelm and attack your subject personally.

Unfortunately this is par for the course with this group of political thugs.


You talking about Obama


and the GOP???

really - look at the PAUL/OBAMA bash thread ratio here... that is laughable



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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Why the hell are you people still here trying to convince brand new members who came here for the sole purpose of invoking doubt?

Don't look at the monster and it will go away.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Corporatism is an issue with a large government as well. When politicians are literally owned by the corporate powers, legislation often protects corporate interest over civilian interest, even government interest. And as we have seen since 2007 the Government is willing to merge with corporate powers in order to keep both it's corporate and governing powers in tact. Who's interest is served? Certainly not our interest.

Outside of Monopoly legislation, I see no reason for Government to be involved with corporate affairs. Under a normal, non-Fascist system, nearly all of the largest corporations in the US would have failed in the past 10 years. Some think that's a bad thing, but I know the point of Capitalism is that smaller businesses would have filled the void.

Now we have skeletons of AIG, GM, GE, Bank of America, Citi, Chase, Goldman, etc etc etc etc etc all filling a massive void in the economy with fake books, fake numbers, fake profits while piling the liabilities on the tax payer through shell corporations and monstrosities concocted by an unelected Reserve board.

Government has proven it's incompetence in regards to our economy. Repeatedly.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Meanwhile the corporatists will sneak in thru your idealism, decide everything and control mankind with contracts
and economic leverage. Paul does not preach balance


Unfortunately the corporatists will sneak through because they bought this country thanks to a Progressive Democrat, Woodrow Wilson in 1913.

It was him who signed into law the Federal Reserve Act and the IRS as it exists today. It was him who gave control over the economy of this nation to corporatists, and private bankers, and even to this day Progressives do the same...Look at Soros wanting a One World Government alongside the rest,look at Bill Gates wanting forced population control among other things.

Please do not preach to the chore when you don't know what you are talking about and are ignorant of the events in history which brought us to this point in time when we are more slaves than free men and women...

We do not even own ANYTHING anymore because Progressives have put taxes even on our eyebrows. This is part of Socialism.

Americans don't own a thing anymore, not even land when we still have to pay yearly taxes on every property, and if we do not, or cannot that property is taken away from us...

Last I checked Progressives also have given more rights to criminals than to law abiding citizens....

Go to a Democrat/Progressive state/region and see what happens when a law abiding citizen has to shoot a robber, or look at the intrusive laws in such states where even the right to bear arms is either heavily restricted, or outright banned.

Unfortunately the Republican party, which once not too long ago was the party of the middle class and the poor, has been slowy infiltrated by RINOs (Republicans in Name Only) and most of these were longtime Democrats/Progressives before joining the Republican Party.

Ron Paul is one of the few Senators who actually endorses the American Constitution and the Bills of Right within it, and knows what we really need to get off this corporatism, and nanny state brought to us thanks to Democrats/Progressives/Liberals.


edit on 7-5-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 





To condemn free-market capitalism because of anything going on today makes no sense. There is no evidence that capitalism exists today. We are deeply involved in an interventionist-planned economy that allows major benefits to accrue to the politically connected of both political spectrums. One may condemn the fraud and the current system, but it must be called by its proper names — Keynesian inflationism, interventionism, and corporatism.


www.lewrockwell.com...

Ron Paul's approach makes the most amount of sense. Please refer to the above link for additional statements Dr Paul made on the House floor in 2002 that are germain to this discussion.
edit on 7-5-2011 by robyn because: speling




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