Osama Bin Laden Killed in U.S. Raid

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by 27jd

 

Almost flawless hit....Don Corleone would be proud.
Too bad they lost the chopper though.

Yes, too bad we had to play our "secret stealth helicopter" card on this event to support Obama's NWO agenda. Was it worth it?

Originally posted by 27jd


*snip*

As for the daughter and wife's story, if it's true, we truly have become the monsters we've been fighting. If they had the opportunity to take Bin Laden alive, and just executed him on the spot, despite there being no resistance...that's pretty f-ing heavy. They put Nazis, Saddam Hussein, etc. on trial. People keep saying they would have shot him on the spot too, despite no trial, simply because of their emotions about 9/11. Murder is murder, and everybody deserves the opportunity to defend themselves in court if they choose to surrender.

Yes, the daughter and wife's story is very interesting in context on how this special event went down.

If this was a state sanctioned execution/assassination by a US President on foreign soil in a sovereign country they have certainly moved into a dangerous territory regarding the international Law & treaties.

A civilised country is benchmarked by way they apply the Rule of Law - and this looks very bad in the eyes of the International community, that's probably why you had these complaints & criticism from some certain high politicians in EU countries and other world leaders/politicians yesterday.

From an American perspective it may not be understandable - but from an International legal perspective and the International community on the other hand, this is a political and legal catastrophe!

This has now set some scary peculiar legal standards and precedent circumstances about international conduct and on how a civilised nation, which supposedly is expected to be governed by the Rule of Law can behave - when a US president directly can order an execution by his military to take place on foreign soil in a sovereign country on what can be regarded as international territory, and without a fair trial before the execution.

The US is a signatory of the Nüremburg Laws and Treaties and bound by other signed international agreements - and I don't think such actions are legal according to these agreements in any legal sense.

So yes! as you said, that's pretty f-ing heavy strictly from a legal point of view - your comparison to the actions of the Nazi regime and similar regimes is uncanny, scary - and from the international community's perspective, a political and legal catastrophe - even if they are letting it slide without any hard questions in this special case!

And let us not forget the current true reality that the world community is most certainly better off without someone like OBL - even if I am sceptical to the official story on how exactly the event went down, since they can't say this directly straight out to the world in plain straight manner: yes! we executed the guy in cold blood - and that's perhaps why we have all these changing stories and political rethoric BS & play to the gallery around on how they dumped the body immediately into the ocean, and how the event really went down.

And perhaps also why they are now denying that your President really watched the whole event (and possible execution) in real time taking place - you know, perhaps some plausible legal presidential deniability?

Originally posted by maybereal11
That is opinion.

The President of the United States ..in my opinion...is obligated to pay respect to those that were lost.
I have no doubt if he failed to do the same that his detractors would take the position he does not care about 9-11.

Again...9-11 is not a "card" to be played...yet you seem to be using it for that purpose? To paint the POTUS as the most callous of opportunists? I will leave you to the thread.

It is opinion, I agree. And since my opinion is that the government allowed 9/11 to happen, I personally find it offensive, and beyond disrespectful for the POTUS to be hugging the families of the people they allowed to be killed to make their buddies in the MIC even richer. It's out of respect for the victims that I take offense to what I see as a fake, two faced memorial service. One day, evidence may prove things one way or the other, but it seems the government has gone out of it's way to destroy any evidence.

reply to post by dragonseeker


I agree with you that it is possible that Obama may be getting lied to as well.

The thing is, what'll happen if he starts to ask too many questions, or demand more proof?

I also wondered why GWB declined Obama's inventation to ground zero today......

Here is what I think could have happened. Obama and his people were willing to lie to the American people and tell them that Osama went out in a fierce 40 min firefight, shooting his AK-47 while cowardly hiding behind his young wife.

This was all well and good and no one stepped forward to immediately correct Brennans account of the "official version".

It would have worked until it became apparent that Osama's wife was still alive and in the hands of the Pakistan government who refused to give the US access to her. They were now shielding her just as they had Osama.

All of a sudden Osama's wife and daughter start telling the world a completely different version of what happened. This caused the Obama run peanut gallery to scramble and issue revision after revision to the "official" story.

Now Obama issues orders to the peanut galley and especially Biden. to clam up and not comment any further on the details of what happened.

In effect we have the administration saying, "This is my story and I'm sticking to it". & "What happens in Abbottabad, stays in Abbottabad."

Lies, Damn lies or war fog. Take your pick.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by maybereal11
I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on those points.

I'm okay with that. And I'm not trying to be cold about 9/11, I'm really not. It's just that to me, it seems people in this country seem to feel it trumps all other tragedies, because it happened to Americans.

In the same way that someone who loses a child "feels" that is a greater tragedy in thier world than an earthquake someplace else...Emotions have a proximity component...it makes those emotions no less valid.

Originally posted by 27jd
I also don't see it as a reason to just believe the government, because I feel they let it happen in the first place, in order to gain support for the foreign policy that followed.

I believe it was entirely incompetence rather than conspiracy to let it happen.

Originally posted by 27jd

I agree. It's still early, so we will have to see who comes out and says what in the coming weeks. The decision not to release the photos of Bin Laden really nailed it in, for me, that there is BS afoot.

Sure there is BS afoot...of course. It doesn't mean OBL is alive.

Listen...on the pics thing...you said that nailed it for you that there was BS. I always assumed there was BS in the details, but understood that the fundementals were correct...The Seals killed OBL...and all testimony and evidence confirms that thus far.

the pics...Team 6 could have easily taken 5 minutes to stage OBLs corpse in multiple ways. Holding an AK-47? Cowering under the blankets? In the midst of a homosexual encounter with another compound occupant...they could have taken an entire series of photgraphs that still would not bring us any closer to the truth of how he died. They could have dropped a folder of glossy 8 x 10s on Panettas desk and said pic your theme and story.

Those pics would not have told me anything that I could believe at face value...their value was purely emotive.....witness testimony, dna, logic...those things are more important to me and the reason i believe OBL is dead.

And while it might be an emotional indulgence...He killed thousands of my people and I am glad he is dead...

Originally posted by maybereal11
It doesn't mean OBL is alive.

I don't believe he is alive. They wouldn't be stupid enough to make this claim if there was any chance he was. I have a hunch that they were finally able to verify, somehow, that he was dead. Let's say he died of natural causes, those close to him didn't want his legend to end with him dying sick in bed, that might imply that he didn't die a martyr, and would not then be receiving his virgins, or whatever. Now, maybe through interrogation of some detainee, they were able to locate where he was buried, dig him up, and verify through DNA it was him. Then perhaps, they knew his son, and family was in this compound for some time, and saw that as an opportunity to stage this raid and say they got him. I'm sure we'll never hear directly from the wife and daughter, so from here on out, it's all gonna be a back and forth between the Pakis and our government. Neither is trustworthy, IMO.

Originally posted by Chevalerous
If this was a state sanctioned execution/assassination by a US President on foreign soil in a sovereign country they have certainy moved into a dangerous territory regarding the international Law & treaties.

Yes...Yes it was ...and if anyone has issue with it let them come for us.

Any "sovereign country" that shelters a madman for years (knowingly or unknowingly) who killed thousands of our citizens can expect us to do the same IMO....and that goes for whatever party is in office.

[A civilised country is benchmarked by way they apply the Rule of Law - and this looks very bad in the eyes of the International community,

Very bad in the eyes of the International Community???? How does Osama Bin Laden building a not so subtle compound and living spitting distance from one of Pakistan's largest Military and Intelligence bases look?

I think "our ally" Pakistan would be better off directing thier energy toward convincing the international community that they haven't been aiding and abeding the worlds most wanted mass murderer.

But if they want to make a case that it was not OK to pursue him there....let them..It would be declaring their right to shelter terrorists and then at least we could be honest about our relationship with Pakistan....withdrawl aid and exit the region and let their government deal with Al-Qaeda on thier own.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by maybereal11
It doesn't mean OBL is alive.

I don't believe he is alive. They wouldn't be stupid enough to make this claim if there was any chance he was. I have a hunch that they were finally able to verify, somehow, that he was dead. Let's say he died of natural causes, those close to him didn't want his legend to end with him dying sick in bed, that might imply that he didn't die a martyr, and would not then be receiving his virgins, or whatever. Now, maybe through interrogation of some detainee, they were able to locate where he was buried, dig him up, and verify through DNA it was him. Then perhaps, they knew his son, and family was in this compound for some time, and saw that as an opportunity to stage this raid and say they got him. I'm sure we'll never hear directly from the wife and daughter, so from here on out, it's all gonna be a back and forth between the Pakis and our government. Neither is trustworthy, IMO.

edit on 5-5-2011 by 27jd because: (no reason given)

Faults I see in that theorey..

I think we will in fact here from the wife and daughter..

Also a neighborhhod boy has come forward as well..
www.thisislondon.co.uk...

And all of the kids and the other women that occupied the compound,,,

Lots of evidence that he died at Seals hands.

there is a ton of evidence tracking the evolution of the chase....they constructed all of that but got the cover story wrong repeatedly?

The idea that he was already dead doesn't fly given testimony and evidence and frankly logic.

reply to post by maybereal11


It's just a theory, not saying that's exactly what happened. But not releasing the photos, and dumping the body within hours, before the news even broke, to appease Islamic extremists is what defies logic IMO. Like I said before, if moderate Muslims get bent out of shape, because we want to keep OBL's body a little while, they can get over it. If it was really out of fear of attack from extremists that these decisions were made, and people support that, again, THEY win. They have terrorized us to the point that we take into consideration their sensibilities when making our decisions. They win.

The US government just fuels the skepticism by repeatedly changing their story, and basically the left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing.

Every original story detail has been changed. It wasn’t bin Laden’s wife who was murdered by the Navy SEALs , but the wife of an aide. It wasn’t bin Laden’s son, Khalid, who was murdered by the Navy SEALs, but son Hamza. Carney blamed the changed story on “the fog of war.” But there was no firefight, so where did the “fog of war” come from?

The White House has also had to abandon the story that President Obama and his national security team watched tensely as events unfolded in real time (despite the White House having released photos of the team watching tensely), with the operation conveyed into the White House by cameras on the SEALs helmets.

No explanation has been provided for why an unarmed bin Laden, in the absence of a firefight, was murdered by the SEALs with a shot to the head. For those who believe the government’s story that “we got bin Laden,” the operation can only appear as the most botched operation in history. What kind of incompetence does it require to senselessly and needlessly kill the most valuable intelligence asset on the planet?

Quotes from the following article at globalresearch.ca
Skepticism...
I wholeheartedly agree that the killing of bin laden has certainly been a loss in the sense of the intelligence information that is gone to a watery grave with him. My theory is that OBL knew stuff that would be very incriminating to a great many higher-ups in the US, UK, and elsewhere. Dead men tell no tales indeed...

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by maybereal11

 

It's just a theory, not saying that's exactly what happened. But not releasing the photos, and dumping the body within hours, before the news even broke, to appease Islamic extremists is what defies logic IMO. Like I said before, if moderate Muslims get bent out of shape, because we want to keep OBL's body a little while, they can get over it. If it was really out of fear of attack from extremists that these decisions were made, and people support that, again, THEY win. They have terrorized us to the point that we take into consideration their sensibilities when making our decisions. They win.

Well then...here I will entertain you with another thought.

What if they did not dump the body at sea? They could have simply said they disposed of the body at sea and then shipped it home to the Pentagon so that analysts who have made finding OBL thier life over the past ten years could take a look and say without a doubt, we got him?

That is not outside the realm of possibility....but I have zero proof or evidence.

Supporting that conspiracy would be the question..if they were going to dump the body at sea...why bother taking it with in the first place? They could have gathered DNA at the scene and left the body for the Pakistani's to bury as they saw fit...a lot less headache for us.

I do believe he was killed at the scene as apparently his wife and daughter are confirming...but why take the body with to then only dispose of it at sea hours later? Were they worried the Pakastani's wouldn't give him a burial in accordance with Muslim tradition?...C'mon...see what I am saying? The most headache-free solution would be to confirm his identity and leave the body there. Why did they take the body? That is the question worth asking. You might be on to something in the sense that the body might not have been burried at sea, but rather returned to the states for some purpose....but again...just my imagination and logic playing here...

reply to post by maybereal11


two wrongs don't make a right, this is not a competition to see who is the biggest killer.

Originally posted by maybereal11 Why did they take the body? That is the question worth asking. You might be on to something in the sense that the body might not have been burried at sea, but rather returned to the states for some purpose....but again...just my imagination and logic playing here...

Maybe because he wasn't really dead. Maybe because Osama is right now getting water-boarded in some secret Afghan military base, never to see the light of day again. Who knows what the wife & daughter really saw? Eyewitness accounts are extremely unreliable. All I can saw is that I don't think I have heard the truth from Obama or his sock puppets.

Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by maybereal11

 

two wrongs don't make a right, this is not a competition to see who is the biggest killer.

Really?? He was planning the death of American Citizens and was already responsible for the deaths of thousands...call it self defense..call it whatever you like, but it was just.

Originally posted by Sparky63
Eyewitness accounts are extremely unreliable.

In most circumstances yes, but watching a hole blasted in someones head is a hard thing to be confused about.

Originally posted by Chevalerous
If this was a state sanctioned execution/assassination by a US President on foreign soil in a sovereign country they have certainly moved into a dangerous territory regarding the international Law & treaties.

If this was a state sanctioned execution/assassination by a US President on foreign soil in a sovereign country then Julien Assange and people like him had better start watching backs. Hell, anyone who Caesar deems an enemy of the state is fair game.

Originally posted by maybereal11
That is not outside the realm of possibility....but I have zero proof or evidence.

Nope. It sure isn't. Nothing is at this point, all we have is the word of a few untrustworthy sources. They say they confirmed the DNA, they say the dumped the body at sea. They have provided zero proof they got Bin Laden other than words, and pictures of a bloody room. Something definitely went down at that compound, and now the stealth helicopter cat is out of the bag. Wonder what the Russians and the Chinese are offering the Pakis for that tail section...

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Sparky63
Eyewitness accounts are extremely unreliable.

In most circumstances yes, but watching a hole blasted in someones head is a hard thing to be confused about.

Once again, None of this has been confirmed. Why should we all of a sudden believe any reports coming from Pakistan? Was it dark? Did the wife clearly see the shot? IT would seem from reports that she did, or at least the 12 year old daughter did, but who knows if they gave this info willingly or if they said this under duress.

If I don't trust our own governments official story, why would I trust Pakistan's?

reply to post by Sparky63


If it went down they way even our government is saying, it sure was a state sponsored execution without trial of an unarmed man. This American would have preferred he be put on trial, be given the opportunity to defend himself, or admit guilt, then be put do death in short order if found guilty. Then, we could claim the moral high ground over our enemies, and not make him a martyr that went out a in a blaze of glory, rather a prisoner who was brought to justice properly. Then, we could have dumped his body in the ocean so there would be no "shrine". Although, there already pretty much is, the site where he was allegedly killed in Pakistan.