Is Lucifer Actually God?

reply to post by dude69


derp.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy


Gnostically speaking, the answer to your question is that our creator; that is the one commonly thought of in the KJV of the Bible is Lucifer, and indeed if you follow gnostic scripture and other older and "heretic" texts/scriptures you'll find that they believed that we were created by an "ignorant" god one who did not know where he came from hence he thought he was the only one God, where the creator of the ignorant God hast not claimed he is the only God, although due to the deficiency of the ignorant God, we have had to live out imprisonment in the flesh while this ignorant God learns through us, since he has set his ignorance/confusion upon us who you could claim "is" us, although it is not us because we are superior "technically" superior to the ignorant God, and it is through this "sacrifice" of our imprisonment and our freedom to live in "his" ignorance that will liberate him, once he has learned his own deficiency, through us. We are what we seek, look within.

Well this is an awesomely grand thought, i can follow it and it makes sense to me and I am thankful of your knowledge to share! also it may very well be true... but i would like to try to touch upon the current state of the modern world, for maybe it relates but I also do not see why one would dwell on anything that does not in someway relate to the world or themselves now ... I understand that not all members of this globe see and feel human modernity and its potential, but this has been a striving of possibility for some time now and with no limits to what can be done in this universe, an evolution towards a more perfect and stable state of being through the understanding and using of science and technologies most likely will be acomplished, and if you can not see the expedentionally growing and advertised advancedments in these areas then there are many places you havent been looking, why should or why would that not be the main quest of a concious yet mortal life form that wakes up on a floating orb of fractal infinity, and when i write that last sentence I am thinking of the conspiracies of families that have been in power with these motives of boundless and endless technological advancment, weather it is british royalty or the many secrets of intent and knowledge of the founding fathers of this country, passed on through their spreading family, much much family and also all beings who prosper and reap under the established conditions. . So the question i wish to ask is, what exactly is it that they are doing or wish to do? is It possible that they could confidently live and travel through outer space, the space station is huge! they could easily have large fleets of space ships with technologies that promote longevity and allow easy sustainment,, but then it comes to mind what could they really get out of traveling through space? well we know that earth at times can be an unstable place and especially with all theories and prophecies pertaining to the near maybes of these theories coming true, if they can travel in space they could escape cataclysm on earth, and wait till things settle,I do not know where advancments are in the speed of travel but i assume they are not yet capable of reaching near earth like planets, If they could travel around for years and years throughout space perhaps they would meet some other beings and find some answers to what it is that all of us are in.., is their goal to find an earth like planet for them to settle on just to do what it is that we have always been doing, without of course remnants of the path it took us to gain present advancements ... it is interesting to me that most religion preaches that all answers will be received upon death, and that to simply breath and feel while possessing a body on earth is of great priviledge. for as weird as this universe and existence is, I can not personally say what will be experienced upon death, it is possible that nothing is experienced by the understanding you that is reading this except eternal extinguishment, but then also anything could happen, maybe the electrical charges or photons that bounce around your brain is the bearer of the information that is you and upon death to the structure which allows you to be, photons are sent to be reunited to their source and can intertwine and dance in dreamscapes of experiences had during life untill they are again called up to bat ,for some this may be a nightmare, . so what is the point of what our societies are running towards, is it the machine and robot filled industrial wasteland future of the negative futuristic sci fi movies, or is it a clean and sleek all white, i pad walls, babies with bluetooths, council of intellectual elders, green energy, harmony for all... , what is going on on this planet is very much real, and if you ask me it is one of the most craziest things one can imagine, all that exists in each moment on this planet. different regions and cultures, programming children to different values and duties that are relevant to this time, schools, and trends, and toys, and weapons, and games, and poverty,...I can not really have an opinion on weather it is good or bad right or wrong, I guess i want to know what the plan is.. Im not saying it is fair or should be , im not sure what it is, its a mad dash ruled by fear, fear of failure and death if one does not commit to adapting to ones surrounding circumstance, and there are minds that have set the environment and the game. im not saying fear of failure and death is bad, im not saying adapting is bad, but when one is alowed or promoted to adapt by allowing himself to be programmed into a killing machine, or a faithful servent of any politcal orientation or moneatery system, faith or philosophy, programmed into anything other then the infinitly pure and free being they were born to be, it is a little frieghtening. Maybe we can say that it is our destiny to reach the future point of high advancement through science and technology, a future state of near perfection is what this will be, robots and machines makeing work easy or doing the work, food for all, medicine for all,... although on the journey to the future state there may be found many different ways to do something, like ways to run a car, there also may be a universally unbiased best, that after many a trial and error will be determined, this leads questions into weather there will always be room for advancement and if it is possible to reach anything near what the word perfection means, the word perfection is extremely relative and subjective, will it be possible for us to ever become satisfied?... So if we are leading towards a jetsons future, lets suppose free energy and unbelievable advancements in medicine and technology, cloning body parts, pills that hold all nutrients needed etc. will we still not be doing pretty much the exact same thing we always have been doing.. we can say we are alowing our selves to do more things easily, but now that the method is quiker and easier, your person is just required to acomplish more and quicker,, has not this modernity just allowed priviledged people to personally experience more events. sorry for the rant, but if anyone would like to mind this rambling or think anything of what i have just regurgitated is of value then cool, and maybe we can further discuss some of this of what is going on, what will go on, and why its going on. oh and sorry to get off subject quite a bit but i believe that what i am speaking of is relevant... I guess because the way I view it is, if heros and villians of religions are not describing very real and existing extra terrestrial/alien beings or entities that lead earthly humans in knowledge of civilization and technology and future possibility, if that did not really happen, then does that not mean that all other humans to ever live are very much alot like you and me, people of there time and circumstance, each one knowing only from what they have seen,felt, and thought, from their views and feelings of them selves and where they grew up with their family and environment, too all that has happened till this moment now. That stories of ancient scriptures and religions and myths and legends, could just be the writings and life works of very intelligent, wize, and aware members of a time and place. if you go into a book store you will see a mass amount of information on a mass amount of subjects, all from minds in situations and time... I can imagine that in a time where there were a lot less concerns and distractions,.. what life is and how to live it was of upmost importance... so whether lucifer was an actual historical human, like any historical figure we can rifle off along with a biography, or weather he was meant to represent a way one can be.,., I guess what i mean is the details of the scripture is of no importance when put next to the rawest simplest shout, scream and cry of the message or lesson... I guess in my above thoughts i am leaving no room toward hauntingly acurate prophecy and prediction, and countless other anomolies of supernatural occurances, Things of synchronicity and seeing the future, human collective conciousnes etc. and yea it can be possible that all of those things are true, but to me It does not change the fact that the working together on a community level over time to its members let them live and learn, and eventually onward to an ever increasing area of interaction, all things that are done allow for increasing freedoms for present beings, im talking of things like we can travel great distances because we can use our credit card to buy some food here now and then there further down the road, security in our furture, all these possibilities for a human body and mind to experience and acomplish is what allows for them to have their perspective on things, which I can believe may often allow for some interesting and complex beliefs and views of themselves and the world... which is again all fine and dandy.

If Lucifer/Satan = God
then God = Satan
and Jesus = Antichrist?

What would the Antichrist do:

- Bring people away from the bible (Like Jesus brought people a new law [new testament] from Torah [Old T.])
- Perform miracle (The bible is full of miracles that Jesus did)
- Pretend to be a savior for the people (Jesus claims that you need him to be saved for hell fire)
- Pretend to be god himself (Jesus said "Before Abraham I AM" - I AM was the name of God given to Moses)
- His mark will be the symbol of death (Jesus dieing on the cross)
- He will cause persecution of the true believes. (Crusades and other "kililngs for Jesus")

It all makes sense when seen in this light.

reply to post by arpgme


It's the problem of evil.

If god is omnipotent and willing. then whence cometh Evil?

Since it is unclear precisely how the antecedent of the first premise of "Epicurus"' argument entails the consequent, later philosophers have offered refinements such as:[2]

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

reply to post by awake_and_aware


It sounds like the point you are making is one against the existence of god, or against the definition and description of god you have provided. I would say that yes your logic checks out for the math of meanings you have provided. And I will agree that there are certainly no signs that a large Human like being floats around the universe and checks on all his creations to make sure his children are playing nicely... But my view of the word god, is that when the idea of god was created by earlier humans, it was a word used simply to describe existence, the universe and everything in it, how this waking breathing moment came to be is beyond the single human. You cannot close your eyes and think about what you are, and tell me you are sure you know what it is you are and why you are. why all and any of this is. it seems that something beyond you has brought all that has come to be, to be. through unimaginable passages of "time", great combination and structuring of energies, in an infinitly creative fashion, the more of which we are disecting and learning the more we are baffled and amazed. So please dont view God as something other then the consiousness and body that you possess, that all humans possess... And try to imagine how the endless possibilites the collected energies of these humans can together create wonder, beauty, and harmony, or allow destruction, evil, and greed... If you dont follow what I mean by what I just wrote please further post your questions or problems so that we can try to help each other understand our views and work toward a mutual understanding, for the fact that 2 sepereate minds can share all they have seen and know is surely an incredible gift.

reply to post by ImaFungi


You just described Pantheism.

Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. The word derives from the Ancient Greek: πᾶν (pan) meaning "all" and θεός (theos) meaning "God". As such, Pantheism denotes the idea that "God" is best seen as a way of relating to the Universe.[2] Although there are divergences within Pantheism, the central ideas found in almost all versions are the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity and the sacredness of Nature.

It's not a position i'm keane to adopt. I find it to be a labelling game. The more we discover about the universe/and or reality the more the pantheists opens the scope for "GOD".

I dont even think Lucifer thinks its GOD... When it knows where it was created from.

To appreciate the continuing sage of Enki versus Enlil, it is instructive to note their place in the Sumerian Family Tree, aka the “Grand Assembly of the Anunnaki”.

[color=gold]Marduk (who would become the god of the Babylonians) was Enki’s first born, and that of Enki’s wife, the goddess Damkina. Enki’s other wife was his half-sister, Nin-khursag (meaning “Mountain Queen”), the Lady of Life, also known as Nin-mah, the Great Lady.

Enlil was also espoused to Nin-khursag and their son was Ninurta (Ningirsu), the Mighty Hunter. By another wife, Ninlil (Sud), [color=gold](Enlil had a second son, Nanna (Suen), known as the Bright One ( Nanna and his wife, Ningal, were the parents of Inanna (who was called Ishtar by the Babylonians), and who married the Shepherd King Dumu-zi (the latter given in the Semitic Old Testament book of Ezekiel 8:14 as Tammuz).

There were 2 present but in LIGHT of LIGHT in gold

reply to post by awake_and_aware


OK i never knew that was the name of that idea and that is cool, if a pantheist says that god is a word to describe the universe, wouldnt it be true to their word that the things we are finding out about the universe, have been occuring, and will be occuring, no matter the level of details we personally and collectively unravel, they are not changing the scope of god, the unravelers are...

As for the vortex of possibilities regarding ways to behave as a group of humans existing together, can you not say that we have found that working together for the good of all, (even if a single human being is the most greedy,selfish, other people hating thing) he knows it is better to cooperate with the community, tribe, or society for his own good, he will receive benefits of established systems, and get his hands on the technology and medicine the interactions of the good willed over time has produced....Before you were talking about the allowence of evil being of importance, and how if god is good, or the universe promotes goodness why and how is their evil... hm, the way I view it is anything is possible, humans to one of the largest extents i can think of out of any other gathering of matter has free will! you can right now in this moment do anything you please, dance, get a job, build a car, do anything on the internet, run, swim, make music, make a crazy meal, have a family, hop on a plane to anywhere in the world, shoot pool, kill yourself, go out in the streets and preach, invent something, kill someone else .... what i guess im getting at is society is not a given, and your life is not a given, it had to be willed into existence by much energy and inspiration and at times can be fragile.. so the idea of the good and loving way the universe would see best that humanity would live I think is something over time men have unraveled... I dont know exactly what to say I guess this arguement is about weather we can ignore starving humans, opressed and suffering men, women, and children in distant lands or our own backyards, If life is meaningless or dispensible, so if one should find himself in a good one he must take advantage of everything he can to make it better and best.. or wheather there is great hope, or meaning, or value in helping all and doing good to all, and having the insight to realize that in some time soon technology and medicine will reach to great heights, further connecting and advancing the lives on this earth, and then or before then, maybe it would be best to have all souls enlightened with information of goodness and love towards one another in order to not collapse the high rung that era would occupy on the ladder of history ...

Lucifer is the Prince of this mundane Planet, its his domain and God is the adversary when he treads on the Earth as Jesus or any of the inspired men like John the Baptist & others.

Lucifer being the Prince of the Power of the Air...i.e. nature and the various Kingdoms (plant/animal/etc)
which in all practical terms makes him the 'God' of this material world...

Jesus and Mohammed and Buddah, et al... are temporary interlopers on Lucifers' turf !

they occasionally slip by, but Lucifer pretty much enjoys the competition and toys with them for awhile,
but Lucifer will always prevail...because this is his level and correspondence...the other God has his other dimension called 'Heaven'...

just whom is the one 'stealing' souls?

Lucifer is getting a twisted hate campaign leveled againt him...
is the OP listening ...hey, just think about it...The Biblical God and Allah are vying for your earthly life,
Lucifer just wants you to enjoy the pleasures of living...not to sacrifice one's own hedonism
to forfeit your afterlife to servitude and forced slavery in eternally praising that Biblical God of Heaven

wow what a eternity !?!

to look forward to for Christians and those of the Hebrew faith

reply to post by ImaFungi

OK i never knew that was the name of that idea and that is cool, if a pantheist says that god is a word to describe the universe, wouldnt it be true to their word that the things we are finding out about the universe, have been occuring, and will be occuring, no matter the level of details we personally and collectively unravel, they are not changing the scope of god, the unravelers are...

If you label reality (or the universe itself) as "GOD" we would still we still have the exact same questions;-

Despite whether we call it "GOD", "reality", "existence" or "the force" the questions are still the same. "What is reality?" "Does it have a creator?" "Does the creator have a creator if it exists?" "Does it have a beginning, or an end?" etc. etc.

As for the vortex of possibilities regarding ways to behave as a group of humans existing together, can you not say that we have found that working together for the good of all, (even if a single human being is the most greedy,selfish, other people hating thing) he knows it is better to cooperate with the community, tribe, or society for his own good, he will receive benefits of established systems, and get his hands on the technology and medicine the interactions of the good willed over time has produced

I agree somewhat. Put it this way, I don't think humanity would have progressed very far if we wern't altruistic to each other. If we didn't show solidarity. A civilisation can't withold itself if the majority are murderers, leeches etc. The death rate would soon overtake the birth rate

what i guess im getting at is society is not a given, and your life is not a given, it had to be willed into existence by much energy and inspiration and at times can be fragile.

I'd be inclined to agree. Perhaps it wasn't a "given" that the Moon was formed to hold the earths spin perfect for even distribution of the sun over land. Even our distance from the sun seems like miracle. Or the oxygen allowing us to breath, but we came about BECAUSE of that.

What I'M getting at, is that while it does appear to be chance at work, it's not blind chance. Things arn't put into place from the very start. I don't consider life to be a "miracle", something supernatural, infact i think of it as quite the opposite; NATURAL.

A miracle, by definition, is suspension of the natural order.

To the idea of the good and loving way the universe would see best that humanity would live I think is something over time men have unraveled

I'd agree that it seems that helping each other out, being kind and good hearted is great idea for a civilisation. It still warms my heart even though i don't believe in a deity.

But how would any human decide whether "GOD" is good or bad based on just looking at reality? And people's ideas of "good" are very very different from country to country, time to time etc. As you can see from relgion..... very subjective.

I dont know exactly what to say I guess this arguement is about weather we can ignore starving humans, opressed and suffering men, women, and children in distant lands or our own backyards, If life is meaningless or dispensible, so if one should find himself in a good one he must take advantage of everything he can to make it better and best..

I think most of us would be guilty if we ignored them. God doesn't seem to be if he exists. That's what separates us from nature, we care. Nature doesn't care if 99.8% of all species that ever existed on earth have become extinct, nature doesn't shed a tear.

I agree with you, God has ignored the sick, the dying and the starving. How can humans ignore a world where children grow obese in one country, and children starve to death in another? They seem to be.

It sickens me when people expect their prayers to be answered before that of those less fortunate. As if this is some fun-loving wish system to be abused.

or wheather there is great hope, or meaning, or value in helping all and doing good to all, and having the insight to realize that in some time soon technology and medicine will reach to great heights, further connecting and advancing the lives on this earth, and then or before then, maybe it would be best to have all souls enlightened with information of goodness and love towards one another in order to not collapse the high rung that era would occupy on the ladder of history.

I hope for that ultimately too. Keep spreading the "good" word. Belief or lack of belief, i think that's a common goal we can all unite in.

Originally posted by esqONE
Here is my theory.

you know how people say the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing us he didnt exist?

are they joking? thats not even a good trick, the best trick you could do was convincing people they are worshiping god, when they are infact worshiping the devil. just look at all the crazy stuff hes done, but god works in mysterious ways, yeah OR hes the god damn devil.

very nice very nice you are probably correct

the people of "GOD" are the ones who are doing the bad things they are evil

it makes me so angry

I wish i new the number of people molested and killed by the catholic church

Originally posted by St Udio
Lucifer is the Prince of this mundane Planet,

Thank you but flattery will get you nowhere with me. My "mundane planet" would be far less mundane if the population of religious fanatics were somehow "elimnated," and dispatched to their god in heaven.

its his domain

Yes but I am having trouble dealing with the almost limitless of human stupidity and religious fanaticism.

and God is the adversary

Yes of course; especially the Biblical deity; he is a real sadistic human hating bastard (his parent's were not married) and a total bigot; not a very good example for his sycophantic folowers..

when he treads on the Earth as Jesus or any of the inspired men like John the Baptist & others.

Oh yes, religoius fanatics and their incessant rambling; I cannot abide them; they give me a headache and I have visions of mass firing sqauds.

Lucifer being the Prince of the Power of the Air...i.e. nature and the various Kingdoms (plant/animal/etc)
which in all practical terms makes him the 'God' of this material world...

Well the Christians and the religious fanatics are welcome to leave my material world any time they wish and anything I can do to hasten their departure, please let my know if I can be of any assistance.

Jesus and Mohammed and Buddah, et al... are temporary interlopers on Lucifers' turf !

Yes, they were both fictional religious schizophrenics; the authors of those texts have a lot to answer for; now we have hundred of millions of raving religious fanatics trying to pretend to be religious schizophrenics, charlatans, fake healers, exorcists, fake miracle workers and Islamic slave traders. These fanatics of religion are doing quite a good job with their impersonations of total lunacy.

they occasionally slip by, but Lucifer pretty much enjoys the competition and toys with them for awhile,

I can't be bothered with them and their followers really; the sooner they depart to their Christan heaven and their 72 virgins in the afterlife the better.

but Lucifer will always prevail.

Of course.




Human intelligence, human nature and human reason will eventually prevail over the religious fanatics and the "men of God," but it shall require wars, revolutions and rivers of blood; unfortunately religious fanaticism is a militant and genocidal phenomenon and will require a similar response in order to eradicate this disease.

..because this is his level and correspondence...the other God has his other dimension called 'Heaven'...

just whom is the one 'stealing' souls?
[/quote]

That seems to be the religious fanatics and assorted Christan charlatans.

Lucifer is getting a twisted hate campaign leveled againt him...

Well in a world of hundreds of millions of religious lunatics, it is unsurprising.

is the OP listening ...hey, just think about it...The Biblical God and Allah are vying for your earthly life,

Yes the propagndists of these two invented devils want to imprison your minds.

Lucifer just wants you to enjoy the pleasures of living...not to sacrifice one's own hedonism
to forfeit your afterlife to servitude and forced slavery in eternally praising that Biblical God of Heaven.
wow what a eternity !?! to look forward to for Christians and those of the Hebrew faith

..."your afterlife to servitude and forced slavery in eternally praising that Biblical God of Heaven" How pathetic. Further evidence that religious fanaticism produces a slave mentality; the sooner you leave for your life in eternal Biblical and Islamic heaven, and cease and desist from preying on the psycholgically vulnerable the better.


His Imperial Satanic Majesty
Lucifer

edit on 5-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text was not blasphemous and diabolical enough; not enough Christian flesh and blood consumed. Not enough Christian virgins deflowered & sacrificed,

reply to post by Lucifer777

Yes of course; especially the Biblical deity; he is a real sadistic human hating bastard (his parent's were not married).

Im not understanding the parents not married part

Wow. What an amazing thread and great vid - love the music. It lead me to a moment of inspiration, but I am not sure you will like the answer if you want to believe that Lucifer is God.

That vid lead me to understand 2 things - crop circles are just rip offs of cave drawings and that all of the imagery used was ancient. Probably pre bible (and as recorded in other histories) flood ancient.

All of those beliefs in the ancient imagery were wiped out with the great flood. But obviously some traces of knowledge have survived. The bible says the flood happened because the world was so wicked. This video shows astounding new proof of the level of wickedness via the explanation of the symbology.

Satan (lucifer) is represented as a snake in the book of Genesis, and yes he did lead mankind to knowledge as the video claims. This was the original sin recorded in the bible. Why God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge we will never know.

I theorise that he may have wanted to introduced them to it later on, but never got the chance thanks to Lucifer. Lucifer may have wanted them to gain knowledge just so he could turn them against God. This is all pure speculation on my part.

It is highly likely that these wicked pre flood societies were idolising Lucifer instead of God. Why? Because word got out that he brought knowledge to mankind no doubt and they worshipped him as bringer of knowledge to mankind. What mankind forgot is that Lucifer didn't plant the tree, he just lead Eve to it when God had already strictly forbidden it. So the knowledge that Lucifer gets all the credit for wasn't even his to give in the first place......

So to sum up, Lucifer is the plain old devil and he is up to his usual tricks. Remember the name Lucifer means light bearer and he was chief of staff for worship in heaven. i.e he is well adapted to making things sound very attractive and tempting us of the path of enlightenment into the slippery slope of debauchery and damnation.

And one last thing, the 3 sister faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not meant to be oppressive or at odds with each other. It is the people wielding the books of the faith that make it that way, not the faith itself.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Yes of course; especially the Biblical deity; he is a real sadistic human hating bastard (his parent's were not married).

Im not understanding the parents not married part

Bastard = child born of unmarried parents

IMHO
Lucifer isn't god
lucifer is (organized) religion

the symbols of the day were
earth fire air water
the symbol air equals thought
compared to direct experience
thought is a lie
thought isn't truth bcause it isn't direct experience..it is virtual reality not the reality
its an examination of experience
the subconscious can't tell the difference between truth and a lie, it just accepts
the conscoious (thought) is a lie by nature because it is not direct experience it is virtual experience
it only exists in the mind

Lucifer is the "prince of lies"...lies are creative
but being untrue, they don't actually exist
You can't experience them directly....
if i said there is water in the glass
you can't drink that water out of that glass unless what i said is true
there is water in the glass

now physicists have shown that matter energy information and vibration are all interchangeable

lucifer is the description of creation
god is creation
lucifer the observer, is imperfect by nature - his description doesn't really exist - its false
god is creation and is perfect by nature and because creation exists - its true - its the descriptionn that is false
religion/churches mosques synogogues are the descriptions of god
and so are inherantly false therefore
RELIGION is luciferian

like a truth table in binary math
on or true, real - curent exists
off or false not real current doesn't exist

Lucifer Isn't god
Lucifer is (organized) religion

I'm pretty sure god divided himself through out all living creatures just to see if he could figure out a way to put himself back together again. Or as to say, you're god, I'm god, but only to the extent that we'll accept the responsibility of god.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Yes of course; especially the Biblical deity; he is a real sadistic human hating bastard (his parent's were not married).

Im not understanding the parents not married part

The Bastard god of the Christians

First of all we would have to establish who God's mother was and who Her grandmother was; this is the question of who created God's great, great, great (ad infinitum) grandmother. To a rationalist and a person familiar with scientific epistemology this question is A: beyond the limits of pure reason and has no answer B: is a scientific question, but one for which there is absolutely no scientific evidence..

To the religious fanatic there are a variety of answers which are not derived from reason or evidence but rather from faith.

The mother-impregnating pederastic Christian deity

In Christian theology, there is traditionally a singular deity with three different personalities, and this deity allegedly took on human form around 2000 years ago. Thus when "God (i.e, "Jesus")" impregnated his mother (the Mother of God, the Holy Virgin) in order to give birth to himself, in order to forgive humankind for the ancestral sin of their female ancestor who was tempted by a talking snake, it is quite clear that Jesus and Mary were not married at the time and that it was a pederastic relationship.

Allegedly since the Christian God created the universe "at nightfall preceding Sunday, October 23, 4004 BC," according to the chronology of Archbshop Usher ( en.wikipedia.org... ), then clearly God was "at least" 4004 years old (or even older) in zero BC; thus this would clearly be a pederastic relationship between an older male and a younger female who were not married. Alternatively since God was "fully human and fully divine," we could argue that God was minus 8 months old approximately when he impregnated his mother, and that his mother was an older women, thus making it a pederastic relationship between a younger male and older female.

Either way since Jesus and his mother were not married when he impreganted her to give birth to himself, he was obviously a bastard when born as a human.

Disclaimer: I apologise to all persons whose parents were not married; I do not believe in the institution of marriage (legalised sex slavery) anyway; I am merely making a theological point, and "theology" is not anyway the "study of God," sine God (assuming She even exists) does not subject Herself to empirical observation and cannot be studied; it is merely the study of the various anthropomorphic ramblings of religious fanatics and a study of "human stupidity."

His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

reply to post by Akragon


Does the creator of all that is have parents? Have makers? a maker?

If we assume the theory of God, we have to assume not. Therefore God is a bastard by definition of the word bastard.

A bastard (also called whoreson) in the law of England and Wales is a person whose parents, at the time of his birth, are not married to each other.

But then again, you lot will infer that God was never born, and has and always be. So may be not a bastard by the above definition, but certainly by another

When no one can prove their positive claim, they can always find a way of wriggling out of reason and debate. "Well God is this and god is that, God is infinity, God works in mysterious ways" Always a fallacy when reason and evidence has been found wanting.

God, Lucifer are just names.

Goodness, kindness, compassion, love, truth, peace are the same no matter which 'banner heading' you put them under.

Evil, unkindness, a wish to harm, hatred, lies, disharmony, are the same no matter which banner heading you put them under.