At least seven foreigners killed in attack on U.N. compound in northern Afghanistan

Originally posted by Maslo
You would not be liable for anything if you burn bible or Quran. Only people who do something that is actually against the law would.

Exactly.

How about if someone (like myself) proclaimed on ATS that I was going to burn both the Koran and the bible on August 13, 2011 and on the lawn of the Dove Outreach church? Then. I load a video on YouTube saying the same thing? Hopefully, the story will get picked up by the MSM and get spread around the world by June, which is about the way this all went down with Terry Jones in Fla. An international tempest in a teapot.

Now, August 13 starts to get close and I'd bet somebody somewhere is going to be loading his trusty old deer rifle and heading to the scene of the purported bible burning.

If I step out my back door at noon and burn a bible... nobody will know except me and my cat (who doesn't really give a damn).

reply to post by Maslo


Actually in my opinion I do believe that he is indeed guilty of reckless endangerment.

While a gun manufacturer does have the obvious defense that they do not know what use their product will be used for, and because of this they aren't liable for any crime committed by their product (and with good cause)

They don't manufacture motive.

However Terry Jones, burned the Koran for the purpose of enticing conflict and thus gave motive. He did this knowing full well the repercussions of his actions, and that is enough under the law to indict him under a charge of reckless endangerment.

reply to post by masqua

nobody will know except me and my cat (who doesn't really give a damn).

Acutally I met your cat, and your cat was very upset about the idea, said something about a surprise in your shoes.

Its hard to have a debate with someone who thinks Budwiser is responsible for drunk drivers.

reply to post by aceshootn


I think you just hit the nail on the head. Terry Jones has been on a year long bender and hasn't been in his right mind.

Now THAT makes sense.

Number of Muslims in the world:
Estimates of the total number of Muslims in the world vary greatly:

0.700 billion or more, Barnes & Noble Encyclopedia (1993)
0.817 billion, The Universal Almanac (1996)
0.951 billion, The Cambridge Factfinder (1993)
1.100 billion, The World Almanac (1997)
1.200 billion, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic relations)
1.570 billion, Pew Forums
www.religioustolerance.org...

Looks like you've got some work do do.

reply to post by aceshootn

Its hard to have a debate with someone who thinks Budwiser is responsible for drunk drivers.

Actually Budweiser has about as much to do with drunk drivers as the Koran has to do with Islamic Extremists.

The Koran is a book it's an inanimate object, incapable of doing harm to anything, it's those that use that book for moronic ends that are dangerous.

Just like the Koran in and of itself is inert, however, Terry Jones burning it causes people to freak out and kill innocent UN staffers. It's the action that does something, not the inert object.

Then blaming the "preacher" is like blaming ABC liquors for selling to someone who drives drunk and kills an innocent person.

reply to post by aceshootn


If a bartender knowingly lets someone go out drunk and drive without attempting to stop them they are actually liable under the law in many states.

It's no different here. He knew he would incite violence through his actions, and he did it anyway, he is culpable.

Had he done it without media fanfare, it's protected free speech.

Because he used the media in his act of terrorism, it is if he went to Afghanistan and shot those UN workers himself.

To those supporting the pastor, would you have done the same? would you burn a Koran and if you did and caused the mayhem in Afghanistan, would you feel good about it, would you feel that you had achieved something? Do you think the Pastor feels good tonight watching the riots? I know if it was me I'd feel slightly responsible, but Im not a religious nut.

Then we all must convert to islam. Being an infidel is all it takes to incite violance toward those of us who are not believers in Allah. Nice argument, but BS

reply to post by aceshootn


No you don't have to convert to Islam, you don't even have to condone it. It just would be better if people would tolerate other cultures.

Tolerating something doesn't mean you have to condone it, it doesn't mean you have to believe it. It just means tolerate it.

Here's my whole view on things.

As a Christian, what this pastor did was wrong according to our faith (albeit, legally acceptable under free speech- but I'm not worried about that right now). I'm more interested in God's law instead of what is acceptable under man's law. Jesus told us to be a passive flock, to turn the other cheek, to be the peacemakers, and He also warned us how instigation and provocation does nothing but create vicious cycles of violence.

This pastor's actions are a prime example of what Christ warned us against. What the pastor did was indefensible, IMO. That is something he will have to answer for and I'm glad I'm not in his shoes. He placed a stain on our entire faith when he decided to do what he did.

However... um... talk about bringing an atom bomb to a water gun fight.

The UN slaughter is also indefensible (not to mention exponentially worse). Someone else just equated this with a flag burning in another thread on this subject and I think that is an excellent point. So if someone burns a flag (which happens ALL the time), and that results in a loose cannon patriot shooting up a government building, I mean- hey. It's that flag burner's fault! Well, not quite. Actually, not remotely.

There are really no winners at all in this event. It's too bad the pastor didn't heed his own God's teachings about incitement. On the other hand, sorry but I will not justify murder because someone got their feelings hurt.

Not for koran burnings, not for 'Piss Christ' artwork, not for cartoons, not for flag burning, not for someone defecating on the Bible, etc.

Sometimes you have to be the bigger man and walk away. I think I learned that in kindergarten.

How do you show compassion for group of people who have decided to kill you if you do not have their same beliefs? Are you sure you would survive turning the other cheek?

reply to post by AshleyD

There are really no winners at all in this event. It's too bad the pastor didn't heed his own God's teachings about incitement. On the other hand, sorry but I will not justify murder because someone got their feelings hurt.

You are right, there are no winners in this event at all.

It is wrong what the people did to the UN Staffers in Afghanistan. They shouldn't have done that and they were wrong to do so.

It is also wrong what Terry Jones did. It doesn't justify murder, but it did incite it.

Originally posted by whatukno
What is Terry Jones's problem? If you don't like Islam, and don't like the Koran, then just ignore it. This level of intolerance isn't the American way, we may have the right to do so, but that doesn't mean we should.

I agree.

Originally posted by whatukno
I believe that the families of those people killed should sue Terry Jones for wrongful death, as it was his actions that incited the violence to begin with.

So what you're saying is that the people that killed those workers in A-stan have absolutely no responsibility for their actions and it's ALL Terry Jones fault?

Hmmmm....lemme guess: "The Devil made me do it" defense?

reply to post by whatukno

If a bartender knowingly lets someone go out drunk and drive without attempting to stop them they are actually liable under the law in many states. It's no different here. He knew he would incite violence through his actions, and he did it anyway, he is culpable.

Yes, it is different. Bartender gives people alcohol, and alcohol increases agresivity (just like burning quran). Yet bartender is not responsible for any crimes people commit under the influence of alcohol.

Your situation is a false analogy. If the pastor knew that an this attack is going to take place and did not inform the authorities, then he could be liable, just like you described with your analogy. Thats not the case here.

Your attempts to blame the pastor are really stretching any sensible definitions of crimes. It would never be succesful in any court.

reply to post by jerico65


Actually the people that shot the UN Staffers of course are guilty of murder.

Terry Jones however is guilty of Reckless Endangerment.

See the difference? While Terry Jones didn't actually murder the UN staffers, he is culpable by inciting the people that DID murder the UN staffers.

reply to post by aceshootn


Here's the simple truth:

In much of Europe and the Americas, where Christianity has put down its deep roots, people are more tolerant of those who do NOT ascribe to that faith. This has been an increasing tendency.

In the Middle East, the opposite is true... they are becoming less tolerant.

Why?

Could it be that the west has involved themselves in their governments, installing puppet dictators who, for a few billions of dollars, are willing to allow the resources of those various countries to be removed by western countries? Might it be the resultant impoverished populations evident in those countries because of that political meddling? In Egypt, for example, the average income is about a buck a day. Had America shared the same fate, with a theocratic government and a legal system something like the Christian equal of Sharia, I don't doubt an identical idiocy would be happening here on a scale much larger that the occasional murder of a doctor doing abortions.

Might it also have something to do with conflicting theologies? After all, it's been 600 years that Christianity and Islam have been at loggerheads over something as simple as the divinity of Christ. It's ridiculous. There's the Old Testament ALL agree on to some extent and the New Testament only one agrees with.

Hardly a good excuse for having billions at each other's throats, but we seem to be.

reply to post by masqua


Or have the Musslims been killing themselves for thousands of years and then some pig *ucker comes along and says, " Hey Ya'll here's the new rule. If you don't believe in me you should die" Go spread the word. Oh and don't eat that pig.

reply to post by aceshootn

" Hey Ya'll here's the new rule. If you don't believe in me you should die" Go spread the word. Oh and don't eat that pig.

Before the guy came along and said that, there weren't Muslims. Shesh oh Pete.