At least seven foreigners killed in attack on U.N. compound in northern Afghanistan

Originally posted by aceshootn
Or have the Musslims been killing themselves for thousands of years

Islam has been around since around 600 AD and, yes, they started out by killing those of their own people who wouldn't submit to the new religion. That took a while. Once they got done with that, they decided to go after everyone else, including Christians. The basic rule was submit or die. There's no doubt on that, BUT, if you actually knew Christian history, you'd know that the same rule applied for a few centuries before Islam.

The pot calling the kettle black, it as it were.

and then some pig [snip] comes along and says, " Hey Ya'll here's the new rule. If you don't believe in me you should die" Go spread the word. Oh and don't eat that pig.

That was pretty crude. You just based all of Islam on bestiality. I snipped that profane censor circumvention out of the quote because it isn't allowed on ATS.

reply to post by aceshootn

Coarse and vulgar.
Inflammatory.
Provoking.
Inciting.
You tarnish the reputation of this site.

reply to post by aceshootn


I will chime in here. If it had been 1 or even 10 or more US officials then it would be all hands in the air. I hope that man is liable for the deaths of the UN foreigners. I have a close uncle who actually works for the UN and pray everyday he is not killed for the tireless work he does overseas.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by mobiusmale

 

Actually, I have linked to the legal definition of Reckless Endangerment.

And Terry Jones's actions do constitute Reckless Endangerment, because his actions did create a substantial risk of physical injury (in this case death of at least seven people)

The accused person isn't required to intend the resulting or potential harm, but must have acted in a way that showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of the actions.

He did so knowing that Muslim extremists would be angered by his actions, he showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of burning the Koran publicly.

I believe that the Federal Government should Arrest Terry Jones for the crime of Reckless Endangerment. As he obviously would know that his actions could cause such a reprisal. He should also be sued by the families of the victims of this horrific event for wrongful death because as a result of his actions their family members died.

This man might as well have went over there and killed those seven innocent people himself.

His actions in burning the Koran may be protected under the 1st Amendment, the result of his actions are not.

You can cut and paste all right...but unfortunately you do not understand the basic concept in law. It is the act itself that must be reckless...in that the act itself might cause harm to another individual.

That is, if he had set fire to the book, and the book then inadvertently ignited a couch someone was sitting on, and that person was singed...a consequence of the act of burning a book itself...then the crime of reckless endangerment has occurred. Therefore it would be, in this case, considered that the manner in which he had burned the book recklessly endangered the well being of the person sitting on the couch.

If the mother of the person sitting on the couch, a well know nutjob, then became enraged and started killing people at the 7-11 on the cornrer...the book burner would not...repeat would not...be held in any way responsible for the deaths of the 7-11 patrons.

Your argument is totally without merit. Your thread is PC taken be the level of absurdity.

The problem is not with the Pastor, who acted within his rights. The problem is with the blood cult known as Islam, and its followers who feel that murder is the remedy for any number of things that they find offend them.

reply to post by mobiusmale


He did this because he knew it would cause this kind of reaction in the Middle East, that is why it's reckless endangerment. He knew there would be retaliation from the people of the Middle East, if this wasn't his intent, he wouldn't have done it publicly.

While he has the right to do what he did, as it's protected free speech under the 1st Amendment, the results of his action were that UN staffers died.

He didn't kill them himself, but he gave their murderers motive.

so we are over there murdering their families and generally terrorizing the entire population, but some doofus burning a book thousands of miles away is where they draw a line in the sand? i feel like im missing something...

MR.TERRY JONES; WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???????.....A CHOSEN ONE????..A PASTOR WITH THE FAVOR OF GOD HIMSELF???.....YOUR CHURCH HAD 53 MEMBERS LAST YEAR , MAYBE MORE TODAY, MAYBE LESS.....DID YOU EVER STOP TO THINK OF THE CONSECUENCES THAT THIS ' RELIGIOUS GESTURE" ITS GONNA CREATE??????...THIS GUYS IN AFGHANISTAN THOUGH THEY WERE KILLING AMERICANS JUDGING BY THE SKIN COLOR.........U CREATE THIS SITUATION , AND YOUR ARROGANCE,YOU SHOW THE WORLD NOTHING BUT HOW IGNORANT AND LOW RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE YOU HAVE. BURNING BIBLES DONT SOLVE YOUR ISSUES, BUT BURNING THEIR HOLLY BOOK DOES.NOW GOD PROTECT OUR SOLDIERS OUR SONS,BROTHERS,FATHERS,MOTHERS,ALL THE BOYS IN UNIFORM THAT ARE GIVING MILITARY SERVICE IN THE MIDDLE EAST,WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THIS FAMILIES???????......THEY ARE FIGTHING FOR YOUR SAFETY IN OUR HOMELAND AND ABROAD. I DONT KNOW HOW THIS IDEA CAME UP BUT ITS NOT THE BEST FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHRISTIAN MITHOLOGY YOU SR. PREACH..........HOPE THE SNOW BALL DONT RUN YOU OVER..

excuse me people,


it was karzai himself who told everyone.

"The Quran was burned March 20, but many Afghans only found out about it when Afghan President Hamid Karzai condemned the desecration four days later. The burning took place at the Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, the same church where the Rev. Terry Jones had threatened to destroy a copy of the holy book last year but initially backed down."

news.yahoo.com...


sooooooo, is he culpable?

You know what guys?

I give up.

Go ahead, hate for the basis of hate, hate those different from yourselves because of those differences. I don't care. I am tired of fighting against bigotry. If that's how you want to live your life. Go ahead. Start your holy crusade against the Muslims, see if that jump starts the Apocalypse.

I just don't care anymore.

Just don't come to me when it's YOUR group they come after.

reply to post by whatukno

He didn't kill them himself, but he gave their murderers motive.

And that is not a crime in any way, not even reckless endangerement.

I just don't care anymore. Just don't come to me when it's YOUR group they come after.

I will not. They have full rights to attack my religion (or lack of it), political views, and other opinions, without being liable for anything. Including burning flags and books. They can burn The God Delusion as much as they want. Hate is not a crime!

Directly incinting violence ("Lets go and kill/harm that person/group!") is the only circumstance where freedom of speech may be restricted, and being liable for the results may be considered (and the second thing is debatable).

The problem is these people have no control over themselves. If you can keep them isolated from everybody else (and the things that set them off), then we wouldn't have the problems. If they were out of the loop, you could burn a billion korans and power a large city with them, and the Afghans that are rioting would have been able get on with life as usual without incident.

(Anyhow, if there really were some magic-guy-in-the-sky those responsible for some infraction would be punished without anybody else needing to do a thing. An entity needing you to do all the heavy lifting isn't really worth worshiping. Well, maybe there's Stephen Hawking... But otherwise... So you can get an idea of what my perception of organized religion is.)

Person A --> Loves book. (No "idolatry" , but damn if you touch that book. )
Person B --> Thinks book is crap. Likes some other ideological system or other and will argue over it.
Person C --> Doesn't have anything really to do with the issues between A & B.

So what happens? Person B runs around making fun of Person A, and burns a copy of Person A's book. The problem is that Person A lacks control. Person A rages and attacks Person C because Person C is there, and because (for some reason or other) they can't do anything to Person A.

(Also note that you can classify societies like people, if those societies are dominated by a certain personality type.)

You can also classify them as "rage-tards", "trolls", and "indifferent". Often the problems for Person C (indifferent) types are because they often end up attacked by Person A (rage-tards) because of Person B (trolls). If only there were something that could be done about both rage-tards and trolls, everybody else could get along without problems.

Rage-tards are probably the worst (and easily manipulated), because just about anything will set them off into physical and destructive violence. Give them an excuse (like religion or some other ideology) and they'll go about taking any percieved slight to act like a wrecking ball. So if you have a rage-tard vs. rage-tard situation, you're always going to have a bloody and pointless conflict.

Trolls are manipulators, and always thinking of some way to make somebody else look stupid. Troll vs. troll battles always end up a battle of words and wit, they just go out of the way to push buttons. Lots of name calling and mud-slinging, but rarely ever gets bloody. Legal manipulation and bureaucratic machinations are typically considered masterpieces of troll grandstanding.

Ironically, in a rage-tard vs. troll battle, the troll ends up bruised and bloodied and the rage-tard looks like a knave reacting like an overgrown child. In a way they've both lost, but somehow they also perceive themselves as winning that same fight. (In other words they're both control freaks that have achieved their objectives.)

Indifferent types can get along with either, as they never do much on their own to press a rage-tards buttons and respond to trolling with not much else than "meh" and get along with their business. They can be considered the most mature of people, having grown past infantile and juvenile inclinations. The indifferents only suffer because of the other two. (If you're caught between a rage-tard and a troll and honestly don't care about the subject at hand, now would be a good time to leave the room. This is because the troll will be more than happy to sacrifice you to make the rage-tard look stupid.)

Originally posted by HenryPatrick
so we are over there murdering their families and generally terrorizing the entire population, but some doofus burning a book thousands of miles away is where they draw a line in the sand? i feel like im missing something...

To be honest, this story has sounded a bit suspicious to me as well. I just figured since it has happened before with the cartoon incident, that it was at least possible the raids/murders were due to the Koran burning.

But you do have a very good point. Something is not making a lot sense. What is more likely:

1). Islamic extremists raided/murdered/beheaded people all the way across the world who had nothing to do with a backwater pastor who burned their sacred book.

2). Islamic extremists raided/murdered/beheaded people in an Afghan UN compound because of the UN's current involvement and attacks on Middle East citizens.

Option B sounds a lot more likely. Occam's razor seems to come into play here. I'm not saying it's impossible the Koran burning started all this but it does seem like the more far fetched explanation.

It also is very odd to me how the attackers apparently heard of this story all the way around the world in their 3rd world country but the Koran burning was news to us. Most of us heard of this pastor last when he called off the planned burning last year and we figured that was the end of it. Now it comes to life that he went through with it a couple weeks ago and it's news to us?

Originally posted by AshleyD
It also is very odd to me how the attackers apparently heard of this story all the way around the world in their 3rd world country but the Koran burning was news to us. Most of us heard of this pastor last when he called off the planned burning last year and we figured that was the end of it. Now it comes to life that he went through with it a couple weeks ago and it's news to us?

That could be because of Zardari and Karzai:

Last week, President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan condemned the burning in an address before the Parliament, and President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan on Thursday called on the United States to bring those responsible for the Qur’an burning to justice. A prominent Afghan cleric, Mullah Qyamudin Kashaf, the acting head of the influential Ulema Council of Afghanistan and a Karzai appointee, also called for American authorities to arrest and try Terry Jones...

asiantribune.com...

Nothing like two presidents and a mullah or two when one needs to spread the message.

It is very clear that Terry Jones is getting off on burning the book. He knows what trouble doing something like this will bring, and i really think this is what he wants. I can't stand the bloke and all his attention seeking. But now he has blood on his hands. He has the taste for it now, and he is not going to stop Very evil little man!

reply to post by Jay-morris


No, he's not going to stop. Next case on his kangeroo court judicial docket is the prophet himself. That should get a few more people killed as it hits the MSM.

reply to post by masqua


Yes, that is what I'm saying. It is suspicious to me that it was a big speech over there (someone posted elsewhere on ATS that the act was spoken out against over there) but it was dead news for us over here. The last most of us heard of this was last year and the pastor ended up backing down.

But the news trickled out over there and was the supposed cause of this raid? Like this was the straw that broke the camel's back while the UN collective invasion was just another sunny day over there?

Something is off about it. Again, Muslim extremists have overreacted in such cases before so it's not impossible the attacks were due to the Koran burnings. If they can kill over a cartoon, I'm sure they will kill over the burning of their most sacred text. But I wouldn't be shocked to hear this is fabricated either.

Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

No, he's not going to stop. Next case on his kangeroo court judicial docket is the prophet himself. That should get a few more people killed as it hits the MSM.

Yeah, i know. Seems he has the brain washing talents, so it would not suprise me if he gets loads of gullible supporters. For me, its easy to see that he loves the attention, and the more he gets, the more dangerous he wil become.

The thing that strikes me the most about this is that, most people in usa see themselves as rolemodels for the rest of the world, but always manage to do the oposite. If yiu want to be rolemodels its fine, but remember to live as you preach.

Of course the pastors actions were the ones that caused the deaths of the un workers. If I offend something you feel passionate about, you will retaliate in some way. These people have lost everything. They only have rheir religion left.

If lets say italy italy invaded usa, for no reason at all, and killed peoplesfamilies took the ritches away and left all of you on the street. I bet people wouldn't have so much patience eiher.

Or let me put it this way: when you have nothing to lose, you are capable of anything...

It's not muslim nature, just human nature.