What is the Position of Christian Women? Mighty Men?

Originally posted by Raist
People are also forgetting that those letters were addressed to certain churches that had problems. Same goes for the women should not cut their hair thing. It was directed to a certain type of woman whom were trying to combine Christianity with a life style they had prior to converting.

This is what happens when people do not read things in context.

Raist

so true, in fact from my understanding the letter that Paul wrote to the corinthian church, where he said for the women to be silent, he went on to say if you have a question ask at home.
because at that time, men sat at one side of the temple and women on the other, but there were some women who were being a distraction by shouting across the room, asking their husbands questions.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by nithaiah

 

Unbelievable. It was all in front of you the whole time, and you never noticed it as such of what this post is exactly about. Is any of these people alive today?

If they were, I'd have many questions for them. They are not.

What's in front of me is a person saying that women have roles determined by men's shortcomings, which is something I have fundamental problems with.

Originally posted by nithaiah

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by nithaiah

 

Unbelievable. It was all in front of you the whole time, and you never noticed it as such of what this post is exactly about. Is any of these people alive today?

If they were, I'd have many questions for them. They are not.

What's in front of me is a person saying that women have roles determined by men's shortcomings, which is something I have fundamental problems with.

No you missed it, that's not it at all. And too bad they aren't alive, cause they would have told you how they did it and then you'd get it.

In Christ there is neither male nor female....

For the sake of humility it's best to submit to the customs of whatever Christian community you are in, but always follow your conscience and try not to create trivial scandals. Time is short, just do the work of Christ, what else matters in the end?

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by nithaiah

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by nithaiah

 

Unbelievable. It was all in front of you the whole time, and you never noticed it as such of what this post is exactly about. Is any of these people alive today?

If they were, I'd have many questions for them. They are not.

What's in front of me is a person saying that women have roles determined by men's shortcomings, which is something I have fundamental problems with.

No you missed it, that's not it at all. And too bad they aren't alive, cause they would have told you how they did it and then you'd get it.

I know how they did it. They did it by talking to each other, and holding each other in high regard, with respect towards each other as people on the same road, together. Not by "You are my wife, you are subject to my desires."

What other way is there to interpret "a wife must submit to her husband", as the bible so often suggests? It is worded very simply, with little room for error, and even less for equality.

Originally posted by halfoldman
We have just had a Mighty Men crusade locally, and it brings up many issues.
In the New Testament 1 Timothy 2:12 stipulates quite clearly that women must remain silent, and are not allowed to teach. Eve (or women) are also responsible for man's fall in the following verses.

If mainstream Christianity . . . and Christianity haters, for that matter, would bother to read the whole text and put the verse into context, people would get a greater understanding of this scripture.

Just a hint:

--Just before this, Paul tells in 1 Tim 1:13 how God had mercy on him, as his sin was the result of being misled. And after God had mercy and Paul learned the truth, he could preach. On the other hand, those who sinned knowingly did not get God’s mercy. (1:19-20) In this context, why would 2:12-14 forever bar everyone from the same gender as the misled Eve from teaching while not barring the gender of the knowingly sinning Adam from anything? Paul certainly admit that Adam also sinned, see Romans 5:14

It is easy to see how “women should never teach or have authority, because Eve was misled, men (from the knowing sinner Adam) should lead” really does not fit the context. Nor does it fit God’s character, His perfect atonement, or His statements about children not being punished for their parents’ sin. Scholars struggle with this passage, but whatever the correct interpretation, Moore’s does not fit the data. Link--

Mostly however, women are impressed, and are willing to be the "heart" of the home; whilst men are the "head" of the home.
What exactly do these metaphors mean?
I think it means a mass Christian movement wants women to shut up and be silenced.

No. It is generally accepted that (generally) men think with logic and women think with emotion. There is even a best selling book on this subject (Men are Mars, Women are from Venus). If one person alone is making decisions, it will be faulty. You can't judge everything by logic alone. You can't judge everything by emotions only. If you both run the house together, things will be better.

reply to post by Elostone


Just as I thought, your only showing a small part of the chapter and taking it all out of context. Read it all to get the complete meaning of what is being said and explained.
Matthew 24:19 "[woe] unto them that are with child"
15 So when you see the appalling sacrilege [the abomination that astonishes and makes desolate], spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place--let the reader take notice and ponder and consider and heed [this]
16 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
17 Let him who is on the housetop not come down and go into the house to take anything;
18 And let him who is in the field not turn back to get his overcoat.
19 And alas for the women who are pregnant and for those who have nursing babies in those days!
"Here it is talking about how hard it will be for those that will be struggling through in the last days."
20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].(B)
22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
23 If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!--do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones).
"Where did you get this from? It doesn't even say that."
Luke 2:22 Mary is unclean after birth of Jesus
Luke 2:22 (Amplified Bible)
22 And when the time for their purification [the mother's purification and the Baby's dedication] came according to the Law of Moses, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord
14:26 You cannot be Jesus's disciple unless you
hate your mother, father, and family
"Again totally out of context and only a very little part you quote." In this one He is saying if you don't like or care about your father or mother and He takes it further.. how can you even think of being a disciple.
Luke 14:26 (Amplified Bible)
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother [in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and children and brothers and sisters--[yes] and even his own life also--he cannot be My disciple.

I can see that your only twisting words to denounce the bible. It's very ridicules and I won't even waist my time going on here, there's no point.
Unbelievable

reply to post by nithaiah


You know what, I'm starting to think that your avatar is an actual photo of you.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by nithaiah

 

You know what, I'm starting to think that your avatar is an actual photo of you.

Ad hominem. I'm done.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by Akragon

 

Than your just a guy that loves women. I know I sure do, and that can only get me in trouble.

Yeh true enough...

But they have that power over us... what man wouldn't.... as the song quotes

"turn his back on his best friend if he puts her down"

But we have physical strength over them 98% of the time, which is probably a good reason why people consider them the weaker sex.... but... try squeezing a watermelon out of your arse, then tell me whos weaker...

Theres no reason women shouldn't be equal in every way...

And Btw... I love everyone i don't care who you are...

reply to post by hawaii50th


Like most ... you present opinions; like some ... you claim special qualifications, which you postulate turn your opinions into absolute 'truths'; like a few ... your completely refuse to answer, when opposition can thwart your evangelistic aims.

All this is actually not very important, if it wasn't that your postulated 'truths' would interfere severely and sometimes brutally with other peoples' lives, should these 'truths' ever get any influence on society. So even disregarding the lacking authenticity in your procedure, its social impact is something to be questioned.

Ideological fascism should never be allowed to pass unchallenged, and examples of the consequences of elitist attitudes are abundant through history as a reminder of what happens when extremism get the upper hand. It's not enough vaguely to declare women in possession of special female virtues and talents, if that means that this effectively places them with a limited amount of options, when they choose their direction in life.

This is, no matter how many layers of deflectionary rhetoric trying to disguise it, undiluted bible-justified patriarchy. What's next...slavery, as recommended in OT?

Yeah, the movement is called the GOP! They are anti-women. Passing bills that will represses women's rights is more important to them than creating jobs.

reply to post by halfoldman


I don't know anything about those conferences, but the Bible doesn't teach that. In the culture of that time, women were not to teach men. Men were to teach men. However, women have a role as well. Not silent, not chattels. Loved, cared for, as a man does his own body. Ephesians has some great verses on this. Women are told simply to respect the husbands. Husbands are given far more direction (more thick-headed, maybe? ), and the way women are to be treated is very carefully laid out, and not derogatory at all. My husband does have final say, but believe me, we discuss, and my opinion counts.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

I'm glad it all works for some people, but to the novice or outsider it still sounds like a worryingly mixed and unclear message.
You can discuss, but the man has the final say?
The man must love the woman like his body?
Scripture also says if a part of that body offends you it must be cut off or stuck out.
So in ages past this applied, but then some Christians say God is the same yesterday and today, and what applied under the Law of Moses should apply now too.
Very confusing.

The position of Christian women? Missionary.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

He, he ... yeah, I suppose.
But then as we read in Joseph Conrad, men had their sexual "adventures" in the colonies, where women were submissive and hardly considered human.

Before that in Europe, I saw that women who were not silent enough were placed in torture devices, with the total blessing of the churches.
Some well known examples were the dunking stool, or scold's bridal.
This was considered moral and Christian discipline for over 1 500 years of Christianity.
So how can the verse be misinterpreted?

reply to post by halfoldman


This is interesting. If you discern the purpose of each gender and what they each represent you will understand the reason for the statement in 1st Timothy 2. There is a vessel which was created and made to bear the seed of God and there is a vessel which is made to engender and multiply the seed; and this second vessel is an important part of the first vessel in which is the seed; without one the other cannot fulfill its purpose.

To truly understand these things, go to waterofshiloh.com... and be enlightened.