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Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

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posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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I can give you other references. The Corpus Hermeticum is Egyptian and Hermes calls God the Light and the Word the Son of God. This is in Book 1. In Book 13 he give this mystery to his son Tat but tells him it is too early to reveal this to men. Keep it to himself. Tat wanted to know the mystery of rebirth.

"Tat: Tell me this also, who is the author of rebirth?
Hermes: The Son of God, man complete, and this is God's will."

I could have you read RUMI, the Islamic Sufi. This is some of the most amazing revelation about God I can find outside the Bible. It is very much a synthesis of the Bible (Torah) and Enlightenment similar to what Buddha taught in the Dhammapada. Even in the Dhammapada, I can find the same biblical language of ethics and moral reliance.

Travel to the Hindus. You find the similarities too many to relate here. Try this book. LINK

Back to the fig tree. There are over 900 species of Fig Tree. Each has its own fig wasp that are codependent on each other. We know that the fig wasp of today is exact to the fig wasp in the fossils of 35 million years ago. Each wasp is unique to its tree. YET, evolution would like you to believe that 900 species could have evolved. Only a fool would miss this next assumption:

All nations are like the fig tree that will produce bad or good fruit. Each has it's own wasp, or prophet. The male is not fit to eat but the female is. Christ came to produce fruit through the church when Israel failed to realize its goal. Again, read Romans 11 and see that what I say is in perfect reflection to the text. Even that reflection is not good enough. You have a third reflection in history and a fourth in the revelation that the Fig Tree will bloom again in the land of Israel in 1948. This generation that witnesses the fig tree blooming will see the Lord return. It can't get much clearer that this.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!



Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
There is a good case for Jesus. It fits the rest of the biblical story.


Then what you're saying is that you can get from creation to Jesus because you personally believe the bible. Why then do you believe that book instead of any of the scores of other religious texts that also reference a creation? At some point you'll need to rule out all those others and provide the convincing evidence that establishes the bible's claims as being the correct and true one. Though really, I don't think there's been any convincing evidence presented that the universe or anything in it was created by a deity.

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posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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To summarize the proof so far, I would compare this to a smoke ring.

The standpoint from evolution is a puff of smoke that is here and then gone as soon as it is noticed. The biblical puff of smoke forms a ring and rolls on and on. One connection fits into the next perfectly and forms a consistent movement forward, well connected to its origin. The puff of smoke given off by the other perspective has nowhere to go but every direction of confusion.

I would say this thread has produced good fruit.
edit on 14-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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The video you supplied is very clear. We could say that Christ represents Israel and is against Islam. This is not the case. Israel does not claim Christ and neither do the Islamic extremists. They both claim Him as a prophet only. So, let's not get into the business here of blaming Christ or God. His message was loving-kindness to others and He has clearly offered salvation, but not down the barrel of a missile launcher. Neither Israel or Islam (Brothers-Issac and Ishmael) are practicing their faith here. Not even a little faith. Neither are following God.

God did everything here for the world already. God told us what was going to happen between the two brothers. He gave them the answer to the conflict already. If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. If your enemy hits you, turn the other cheek. If he asks you for your coat, give him your cloak too. If one of these nations would put down their weapons and hand the problem to God, this would be over. If you go back and read the Bible, God has always said that a King is not necessary. Just follow God only. No weapons necessary. In this case, no weapons formed against you will prosper.

Christ said 2000 years ago what would happen to the letter. If we haven't listened, who is at fault?

He also said, "If those days had not been cut short, no flesh would survive." Matthew 24:22. Again, it's all there in the Bible for us to see since we are the generation that witnesses Israel become a nation in 1948. That fact that I am telling you what is in the mirror is your ultimate proof. I tell you, you see it in the Bible and then you see it in revelation, and then you see it on the news. None of the reflection is hard to notice. It's proof. God is what he says. No more, no less.

For our sakes, Christ cuts it short at the last minute, the 11th hour, and brings the two brothers back together. Israel opens it's eyes, as does the brother Ishmael, and the faith turns into fact.

The End.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





Israel is the light unto the nations that covers sin.




Israel's crimes against humanity
More crimes against humanity...



I claim there's dozens of more peaceful countries than Israel...Iceland for example.




edit on 14-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I hope you realize that your last few posts contain ZERO proof backing up your claims, you're basically preaching here...



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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First of all, I'd like to thank SuperiorEd for this amazing thread. I'd like to add to this thread much in the same style that you have been presenting it, from Scripture.

Daniel 11:33

And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder.


Psalm 119:130

The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.


To the guy that has responded to almost every single one of SuperiorEd's posts with "where is the proof, where is the proof?" It seems that you have very strong bias against the idea of God. It seems that you aren't even reading the scriptures that Ed is quoting to you. Please actually read all of the following scriptures, just snippets taken from the bible, and you will have all of the proof that you need.

Luke 12:12

For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Timothy 3:7

Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Job 28:12-13

“But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? Man does not know its worth, and it is not found in the land of the living.

1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

John 3:8

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


I could go on and on and on and on but you should just read the Bible yourself. All the proof you need is in it.
edit on 17-4-2011 by graphuto because: Moar



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by graphuto
 





I could go on and on and on and on but you should just read the Bible yourself. All the proof you need is in it.


Proof of what people BELIEVED to be true 2,000 years ago...NOT poof of reality. Not everything people write is the truth, and that counts not only today, but also 2,000 years ago.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


'Creator or chance accident?' I think, really, its a moot point.
The argument I hear all the time between creationists and atheists really has to do with the bible, you either believe what the bible says or you don't. Now on this point I'm on the atheist's side of the fence. If you take the bible out of the equation then I could envisage a lot of these folks getting on just fine. Of course then we move on to the main issue, 'Creator or chance accident?' and like I said, moot, I really think you cannot prove either. From a certain point of view the universe is our 'creator', from another, we are born of chaos, and in my honest opinion is.....WHO CARES!



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


It's like the above one said. You either believe or you don't. God will never be proven, that's what faith is all about. You have a certain amount of faith everytime you leave the house, or drive, or fly. Anywayz, like the Bible also says, "The fool has said in his heart: There is no God."

Very interesting that the Bible has soooo many messages that pertain to almost any subject one could think of. But there is no point arguing with someone who just does not and doesn't want to believe.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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Those are great verses. You post is amazing!

It's really pretty hard to believe that anyone misses the overall picture here. There is proof everywhere you look. Just the fact that the Bible has an answer for every critic, every situation, every argument is astounding. Add to this the fact that there are multiple authors, spread over thousands of years and again, I'll say, it's astounding that anyone can blow this off as anything but fact. On top of this, the Bible reveals the future perfectly. On top of this, it even says what the scoffers will be saying against the word of God. On top of this, the Bible claims that a tiny country will be the center of world focus and hated by many nations because of God. On top of this, it predicts a nation, scattered over centuries and continents, to be reborn as a nation again. This has NEVER happened, EVER in the history of the world except with Israel. Give me one example. I dare any of the doubters to name one people group that has been scattered and then brought back as a nation, as predicted by any holy book, after 1900 years. I'm like you. I could go on and on and on and on. There is so much proof just kicking you between the two hemispheres of the brain.

Uniqueness in statistical accuracy is yet another proof.

So many statistically accurate prophecies (not predictions) is impossible. Proof.

No stone left unturned to answer critics. PROOF


Originally posted by graphuto
First of all, I'd like to thank SuperiorEd for this amazing thread. I'd like to add to this thread much in the same style that you have been presenting it, from Scripture.

Daniel 11:33

And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder.


Psalm 119:130

The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.


To the guy that has responded to almost every single one of SuperiorEd's posts with "where is the proof, where is the proof?" It seems that you have very strong bias against the idea of God. It seems that you aren't even reading the scriptures that Ed is quoting to you. Please actually read all of the following scriptures, just snippets taken from the bible, and you will have all of the proof that you need.

Luke 12:12

For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Timothy 3:7

Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Job 28:12-13

“But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? Man does not know its worth, and it is not found in the land of the living.

1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

John 3:8

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


I could go on and on and on and on but you should just read the Bible yourself. All the proof you need is in it.
edit on 17-4-2011 by graphuto because: Moar



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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You are absolutely correct. The average time it takes a person to see counterfeit truth is nearly instant. The Bible has not been dismissed by billions of people, thousands of years of scholarship, continuing archeological confirmations and academic rigor from universities spanning the globe. The Bible stands. It continues to be found accurate in its historical records. It continues to astound historians with nuggets of information confirming our origin as a species. It tells the future. Apart from what we know from the history in the Bible, we would have little clue of any of our history as a people. Apart form the Bible, we would not have a clue about the history of Egypt. Apart form the Bible, we would not have printed books. We would not have freedom. I could go on, but if you know your history at all, you will recognize that the Bible is central to government, freedom, justice, equity and every other human quality that can be considered civilized.

Compare this to what has been found to be less than factual. The Bible (rather someone in the Bible) calls Pi 3.0 instead of 3.14159. OUCH! It simplifies creation to an easily understood sequence. I'm shocked. It has scribal errors that amount to a hill of beans after thousands of years. Not surprised really. It contains stories that seem, on the surface, not plausible. Compare this to the new findings in science and physics and more of it comes to light each day as we are only beginning to understand our quantum universe.

I give the Bible my vote of confidence any day.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by graphuto
 





I could go on and on and on and on but you should just read the Bible yourself. All the proof you need is in it.


Proof of what people BELIEVED to be true 2,000 years ago...NOT poof of reality. Not everything people write is the truth, and that counts not only today, but also 2,000 years ago.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





The Bible has not been dismissed by billions of people...


Actually, it's dismissed by the large majority on this planet...



thousands of years of scholarship


...that clearly show how much is wrong in the bible. For example, the earth wasn't created by god "parting waters" to create the heavens and the earth. Humans also didn't pop up in their current form like the bible claims, snakes don't talk, and people can't survive in the stomach of whales. But who cares about facts, right?


I also fully expect you to ignore those facts...



continuing archeological confirmations


...also disprove many parts in the bible. Here's an example.



The Bible stands. It continues to be found accurate in its historical records.


True...and accurat record of what people believed to be true 2,000 years ago, which of course doesn't necessarily represent reality. As is evident by fictional stories that are demonstrably wrong, like people surviving in whales, or females being made out of the rib of men.



It continues to astound historians with nuggets of information confirming our origin as a species.


Actually, it's demonstrably wrong in many aspects. There's zero objective evidence supporting its claims, and in many cases (like the Genesis account), you can demonstrably falsify its claims.



part from what we know from the history in the Bible, we would have little clue of any of our history as a people.


That's a bit of a ridiculous statements given that the bible doesn't even mention the large majority of people that lived around that time. It's also laughable given that many historical accounts in the bible are just plain wrong...



Finally, the biblical account of events of the Exodus from Egypt in the Torah, and the migration to the Promised Land and the period of Judges are not considered historical in scholarship.
Source



Apart form the Bible, we would not have a clue about the history of Egypt.


...which funny enough is exactly the part it got demonstrably wrong




apart form the Bible, we would not have printed books.


Gutenberg invented modern print...the bible had nothing to do with the invention




We would not have freedom.


Again laughable considering many non-Christian countries enjoy freedom




I could go on, but if you know your history at all, you will recognize that the Bible is central to government, freedom, justice, equity and every other human quality that can be considered civilized.


Well, so far everything you said is demonstrably wrong...not sure why you'd want to go on. Of course Christianity influenced some (not the majority) of humans on this planet, but that doesn't automatically validate all of its content...especially if much of it is demonstrably wrong as has been proven above.



Compare this to what has been found to be less than factual. The Bible (rather someone in the Bible) calls Pi 3.0 instead of 3.14159. OUCH! It simplifies creation to an easily understood sequence.


Pi is one of the most important mathematical constants. If we'd use 3 instead of 3.14159, we couldn't do the following:

- Calculate the circumvent of a circle...like the earth.
- Fly to the moon...because you need to know the radius and impact the gravity of earth/moon on the spaceship.
- Trigonometry
- Describe fundamental principles of the universe
- Probability calculations...in economics for example
...

So using 3 is complete and utter nonsense, and yes, 0.14159 makes a difference! You can't just dumb it down




It has scribal errors that amount to a hill of beans after thousands of years.


Complete and utter nonsense that shows you don't really know what Pi really is.




I give the Bible my vote of confidence any day.



Which means you blatantly ignore facts and rate blind belief higher than logic and rationality. I guess if it makes you happy, fine...but it makes you look silly if you attack scientific facts



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by graphuto
 


Wow, lovely anti-education and anti-reason quotes. Those are amongst the worst passages in the Bible. It is the reason why a woman had her skin flayed off with sea shells for the crime of being educated and attempting to educate others in Alexandria.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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If you read the bible you'd realize that things such as having ones skin flayed off mean nothing.
edit on 18-4-2011 by graphuto because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by graphuto
If you read the bible you'd realize that things such as having ones skin flayed off mean nothing.
edit on 18-4-2011 by graphuto because: (no reason given)


Just like genocide, slavery, and the other bad stuff...right?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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Those are amongst the worst passages in the Bible

You have to understand it's how some understood things back then, plus some passages from the bible are older stories, past on generation after generation, and the story might be altered a bit, or changed, just like your evolution theory. A story evolves and it is something else at the begining. I find odd that you base your study only on the bible, and then come to the conclusion that there is no god. Why not study other things as well that connect to the bible.

Maybe you need a sign, your own expiriance to witness that there is something far greater than we can imagine, that there is a god. When you have one of those, you can't deny it anymore.

It all resumes to what would you do then when you found out that it exists ?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by graphuto
 



Originally posted by graphuto
If you read the bible you'd realize that things such as having ones skin flayed off mean nothing.


Except for excruciating pain...and the murderers (a Christian mob) would supposedly be in violation of that whole "love thy neighbor" bit.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 



Originally posted by pepsi78


Those are amongst the worst passages in the Bible

You have to understand it's how some understood things back then,


Yes, I understand that 'back then' people were largely ignorant and quite a lot more savage than we are now.



plus some passages from the bible are older stories, past on generation after generation, and the story might be altered a bit, or changed, just like your evolution theory.


I guess you could correlate it to genetic drift.



A story evolves and it is something else at the begining. I find odd that you base your study only on the bible, and then come to the conclusion that there is no god.


...no. That is not at all what I do. I have studied the Bible...and that was my basis for doubting Christianity. Now, I've not come to the conclusion that there isn't any deity. That would be an unsupportable assertion. I have come to the conclusion that there is currently no good reason to believe in any deity.



Why not study other things as well that connect to the bible.


Such as? Classical history? (check) World mythology? (check)



Maybe you need a sign,


Only if it's verifiable.



your own expiriance to witness that there is something far greater than we can imagine, that there is a god.


There is something far greater than we can imagine...it's called the universe. We really can do our best to wrap our heads around it, but the distance of 95 million miles? That's something that's impossible for us to fathom....and yet that is merely the distance between the Earth and the Sun (on average), or 1 astronomical unit...

The edge of the observable universe is 2,887,707 billion astronomical units from Earth.

And again, personal experience proves nothing. That's why we have the scientific method.



When you have one of those, you can't deny it anymore.

It all resumes to what would you do then when you found out that it exists ?


If I found out a deity existed? Which one?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Either way, the fact that these people actually flayed a woman for whatever reason is proof enough that they do not understand the word of God.

Proverbs 14:12

There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

1 John 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 Thessalonians 5:21

But test everything; hold fast what is good.

James 2:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.



I'd like you to point out which of the verses I quoted actually have anything to do with what you're talking about. The Bible even tells us of people such as yourself:

2 Peter 3:2-3

That you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

2 Corinthians 4:4

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Acts 13:41

“‘Look, you scoffers, be astounded and perish; for I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’”

Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 18:2

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 10:14

The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by graphuto
 



Originally posted by graphuto
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Either way, the fact that these people actually flayed a woman for whatever reason is proof enough that they do not understand the word of God.


Well, considering they were following a bishop who would later be elevated to sainthood. Hypatia also happened to have been killed in the fourth century...around the time when the 'word of God' was being sorted out.

...also, genocide in the Old Testament much?



Proverbs 14:12

There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.


Yes, like all of those life saving technologies that we've developed through a scientific method conspicuously absent from the Bible.



1 John 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


And again...wouldn't this be enough reason to ignore the Bible?



1 Thessalonians 5:21

But test everything; hold fast what is good.


...wouldn't this be an exhortation to ignore the Bible?



James 2:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.


...I'm not saying the Bible doesn't have some good stuff in it.



I'd like you to point out which of the verses I quoted actually have anything to do with what you're talking about.


Well...any of them that says that there is no use in worldly knowledge. Like:



Job 28:12-13

“But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? Man does not know its worth, and it is not found in the land of the living.


Or the ones that say that knowledge actually comes from supernatural sources. And I can give you quite a few places in the Bible where it says that killing false prophets, heretics, etc is okay.



The Bible even tells us of people such as yourself:


You know...using the Bible to prove the claims of the Bible is circular reasoning, right?



2 Peter 3:2-3

That you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.


What sinful desires? My desire for truth? My desire for testable claims? My desire for verification? My desire to help other people? My desire to see the world clearly?

And I'm only scoffing at assertions that are made without evidence. Those are definitively what should be scoffed at. Of course, the Bible has all sort of self-defense mechanisms that prohibit and vilify the questioning of its claims.



2 Corinthians 4:4

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


Except that I started out as a Christian...and I stopped being a Christian as I read the Bible. Also, I thought there was only one deity according to Christianity...



Acts 13:41

“‘Look, you scoffers, be astounded and perish; for I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’”


Of course I won't believe extraordinary claims on second hand accounts. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, that's the whole basis for the scientific method. Just to give you the heads up, the scientific method works, you're using a computer after all.



Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.


This is also the sort of passage that led to Hypatia's demise. I'm sorry, but what about all the atheists and other non-near-eastern-monotheists who have come up with all sorts of great wisdom?



Proverbs 18:2

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.


Like the Christian who simply parrots the Bible without understanding its historical development or context. Or without examining the variety of claims contained therein. If anything, as an agnostic atheist who considers the scientific method to be the greatest creation of humanity...I should be considered anything but a fool.



Proverbs 10:14

The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near.


So now you're just going to resort to name calling? I'm sorry, but how am I a fool?

And again, you're using the Bible...to prove the claims and validity of the Bible. You don't see the circular reasoning there? I could use the Harry Potter books to prove the claims of the Harry Potter books if I wanted to.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



Originally posted by SuperiorEd

You are absolutely correct. The average time it takes a person to see counterfeit truth is nearly instant. The Bible has not been dismissed by billions of people,


Except for the even greater number of billions of people who have....oh, and argumentum ad populum.



thousands of years of scholarship,


Except for the thousands of years of scholarship that have given rise to such academic insights as the documentary hypothesis for the Old Testament....and all of the other wonderful discoveries that have shown the claims of the Bible to often be morally, scientifically, historically, or just simply inaccurate.

And argument from tradition.



continuing archeological confirmations


...which don't exist. "Biblical archeology" quickly became "Palestinian" or "Near Eastern" archeology when they realized that the entire Torah is uncomfirmed by archeology.



and academic rigor from universities spanning the globe.


Argument from authority...and that academic rigor has shown many of the claims of the Bible to be either unfounded or directly contradictory to evidence.



The Bible stands.


Alongside the Illiad...as a piece of mythology.



It continues to be found accurate in its historical records.


Except for its account of the conquest of Canaan, the Exodus, the lack of historical record for the lives of the apostles or Jesus, the hyperbolic claims about the kingdom of Israel, the entire fiction of the first few chapters of Genesis, etc.



It continues to astound historians with nuggets of information confirming our origin as a species.


No, that would be the biological science known as evolution. The head of the human genome project (an evangelical Christian) has said that the theory of evolution would stand on the evidence found in genetics alone...why? Because it was all predicted by the theory of evolution.



It tells the future.


Never has.



Apart from what we know from the history in the Bible, we would have little clue of any of our history as a people.


...except...no. I don't know why you're throwing the archeological record which directly contradicts claims of the Bible under a bus, but you're just plain wrong. We know a lot more about history from sources outside the Bible...and they're confirmed. Hell, the Bible doesn't tell us a thing about the history of China...it doesn't tell us anything about the Ice Age (which apparently happened before the existence of anything), it doesn't tell us anything about the whole of the Western Hemisphere, it doesn't tell us anything about Australia, it doesn't tell us anything about vast swathes of Europe and Africa.



Apart form the Bible, we would not have a clue about the history of Egypt.


Except for the whole field of Egyptology which is decidedly non-Biblical. I mean, we have a lot of physical artifacts about Egypt and a lot of writings by the Egyptians themselves that document all sorts of things.



Apart form the Bible, we would not have printed books.


Unless you count China...which was printing books well before the Western World.



We would not have freedom.


I'm sorry, but how does a book that endorses slavery and limits investigation embrace freedom? And what about...I dunno...Athens? What about Aristotle? What about all of the secular political theorists?



I could go on, but if you know your history at all, you will recognize that the Bible is central to government, freedom, justice, equity and every other human quality that can be considered civilized.


....actually...no. If you know anything about any of those things, you will recognize that SuperiorEd doesn't know the first thing about anything.



Compare this to what has been found to be less than factual. The Bible (rather someone in the Bible) calls Pi 3.0 instead of 3.14159. OUCH! It simplifies creation to an easily understood sequence. I'm shocked.


Except that using 3.0 as Pi is entirely useless in mathematics. If you were to try to make a domed building using 3.0 in your calculation you would have a hard time at it.



It has scribal errors that amount to a hill of beans after thousands of years.


Citation needed.



Not surprised really. It contains stories that seem, on the surface, not plausible. Compare this to the new findings in science and physics and more of it comes to light each day as we are only beginning to understand our quantum universe.


Except...no.



I give the Bible my vote of confidence any day.


Because you're vastly ignorant of: science, history, philosophy, and The Bible itself.



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