Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

I will open with a quote from an article I recently wrote:

"The world contains many creeds and faiths, but one central truth should not be overlooked: The flow of all we know is made up of many branches from the same stream, a great river divided many times over. The raging torrent of this river may be blocked by disbelief, but the main body of the flow emanating from the source will never be confined in one place for long. Realizing the initial first cause that governs the universe is the preliminary step for navigating the stream. All scholarship throughout history is a struggle against this flowing current as it meanders its way back to the original spring of creation.

As we each make our way through this stream of education for the soul, the direction of current we follow, and the choice of branches we take, will determine our progress as we drift through our brief lives. The three teachers of choice, chance and the actions of others uniquely influence the journey of each soul. Although we do not always have control over choice, we can clearly see that chance is motivated by providence—the guiding hand of God. Providence ultimately defines all outcomes in an effort to influences choice in the direction of truth. If providence can be seen as shaping our choices by spiritual influence, then recognizing the purpose of these influences should be our primary concern in life. Purpose will be unique to each member of the human family."

Here's the reason for this thread: I a hear many people profess science and reason as an excuse to doubt a Creator. Let me give you a few reasons to believe in the possibility that God is all He claims. I don't ask you to believe me, just consider the possibility.

Reason 1
After less than 100 years with computers, mankind has created his own virtual reality by using information and energy, which works by a process of governing laws and procedures. What could we do with a billion more years of development? Could we step into the virtual environment? Do you think our creations would have a chance to keeping up with our progress compared to theirs? Do you think they could comprehend what is behind the veil of energy.

Reason 2
After a billion years of revisions to SIMS, would there be any difference between our reality and the one we create? Would both require information and energy? This question matters because we have essentially proved God possible by the work of our own hands. The probability can be readily demonstrated and is obvious for anyone with a scientific mindset.

Reason 3
Assuming we create consciousness like God in a virtual world of energy, would we limit our creations to some measurable stopping point? Would we allow it to learn lessons the hard way? Confucius said, "I hear I forget. I see I learn. I do and I understand." Would a billion years of learning lessons the hard way, for our species, provide the ultimate understanding in goodness, loving-kindness and altruism? Could we shake off our greed, lust, hate, malice, envy and arrogance if given the proper lessons from our own creator over time? Would a limit to our patience be set into the time sequence of the program?

Reason 4
Back to my previous article statement. No river flows above its source. This is obvious. Apart from conscious effort, nothing like consciousness can arise apart from some other conscious effort and choice. Does this preclude a God who always was and who will always be? Apart from observation of the spirit world and higher dimensions, it would be presumptuous of us to decide before we die and find out. Our own experience in this reality as creators should demonstrate that we are rising toward a source grater than ourselves. Even our own creations do not rise unless programmed to do so.

Reason 5
We are an obvious bio-mechanical robot with encoded programming and functioning at a nano level of engineering. Do I need to say more?

Conclusion:
We are the products of a loving God who has created more than a few planets with life. Take a look at the sky some night and ask yourself, "Does God have the experience needed to teach us the procedure for inheriting the universe and eternal life?" Can a program be saved, copied and placed in an updated computer? Is God capable of doing this through salvation from this reality?

Personally, I will give Him what is due: Faith, hope and love. That's all He has ever asked of me in this school of reality. Salvation is that simple.

Christ is the updated code you need to properly reboot. Better download Him and hit run before your system gets sent to recycling.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Well, I read carefully through your post, but I could not find proof for either creator or chance accident.

Perhaps you can clarify this proof so that I may understand it?

Thanks.

reply to post by SuperiorEd



GOD IS AWESOME!

Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and dominion, for You created all things; by Your will they were [brought into being] and were created. Revelation 4:11

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Well I have to say I am very impressed with your thought process on that. I wonder if anyone else will get how deep you just went down the rabbit hole? Well said.......you might be right or you might be wrong but it sounded logical to me so it is a possible answer I would say.

No point in trying to reason with atheist. They will agree and say "I see where your coming from" about any conspiracy theory alive on this site but one that has to do with God. You wasted your time. Your intelligence is simply too great to be used on these dipsticks.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

The proof is imprinted in your DNA my friend. Truth is free and easily seen. We demonstrate the proof for God each day we live as a mirror for his creation. What you choose to reflect back to Him is your choice. A mirror cannot reflect itself. True for you and true for God.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Well, I read carefully through your post, but I could not find proof for either creator or chance accident.

Perhaps you can clarify this proof so that I may understand it?

Thanks.

It occurs to me that I just provided an additional reason below. If a God who is not energy wanted to reflect himself in an energy reality, how can he manage this? Reflection in an image of course. Anything else would be Himself in the form of spirit (consciousness) only. Why is this necessary to translate the other side back to the originator of the reflection? We would be required to reflect the same image back to the spirit reality in like manner to make the transition. Shake off the material for the spirit. Something about this sounds familiar. Is this why Christ needed to attain perfection in the material world through his consciousness to make the trip back to pure spirit? This sounds like porting a PC program to the more perfect Apple.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

The proof is imprinted in your DNA my friend. Truth is free and easily seen. We demonstrate the proof for God each day we live as a mirror for his creation. What you choose to reflect back to Him is your choice. A mirror cannot reflect itself. True for you and true for God.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Well, I read carefully through your post, but I could not find proof for either creator or chance accident.

Perhaps you can clarify this proof so that I may understand it?

Thanks.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Dear SuperiorEd

Good thread, it very much sounds like we were created by a future computer programmer. All we are, are 0&1’s a lot of them god is no more than a future computer technician. I just love it.

Oh and by the way when you say I am wrong it was one of your boffins that came up with the idea.

Rabbit's hole indeed! I love making myself think in this way. It's the only way to learn and discover. Based on what I have thrown out so far, I have another reflection (so to speak). Follow me here.

If God appeals to us through reflection from spirit to material, imagine what that literally means. If Spirit is part of God's consciousness which He loans out to us, then we are actually part of God (just like he says). Our bodies travel back, in decay, to the earth. Our spirit (consciousness) rises as we live and learn. This means our body is from the material world but our spirit is not from the material world, since no river flows back to its source in the material world. Since science cannot explain consciousness, the spirit of God (on loan) is not of this reality.

How is this possible?

The spirit connects to energy by the soul (modem so to speak). The soul embodies a vessel and bridges the connection from spirit to material. We get to keep the soul for a future connection if we believe that the process is possible and that Christ is the one to follow out of this reality to the next. Why is this so hard for a logical mind to comprehend? It's just basic science and information management. Truely, everything in this reality is a lesson to be learned that reflects, in image, back to the God who says we are in his image. WOW.

Fiat Lux! Let there be LIGHT! The WORD (Wave) created reality with the light. DUALITY of particle and wave. Is this really so hard to get in this day and age? HOW CAN ANYONE NOT BELIEVE? Tap into this wifi brothers, it's amazing!

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Well I have to say I am very impressed with your thought process on that. I wonder if anyone else will get how deep you just went down the rabbit hole? Well said.......you might be right or you might be wrong but it sounded logical to me so it is a possible answer I would say.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I've heard the simulation theory before and it is intriguing. My only issue about the possibility of simulating a universe equal to ours with computers is that it would have to be the size of our universe to compute sub-atomic particles, dark matter, etc., but using Quantum theory it would only have to simulate what people are actually witnessing.... I have to clarify that quantum theory usually only deals with the sub-atomic particle and what I'm suggesting would deal with objects way bigger(think Schrodinger's Cat)

With todays computers it is impossible to simulate a 1meter by 1 meter by 1 meter area at an atomic and sub-atomic level, however using procedural real-time generators it is very possible. Heres a couple of examples from a game called Infinity-Universe which shows how it is possible to generate entire planets, solar systems, galaxies and even universes using current technology (they're all very long so skip through if you need to):
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Heres an interesting article on DNA written by a computer programmer/decoder
ds9a.nl...

Anyways I'm not sure what point I was trying to make but hopefully that gives you something interesting to think about.

reply to post by STL0913


Oh yea my point was that if it were possible to simulate a universe just like ours down to the sub-atomic level then there is no limit. We are in a simulation now and will create a simulation where beings will live and they will create another simulation where beings will live, etc.

That's a good thought, but it's a reflection of your reality only. Remember that God makes the claim that the spirit world is completely perfected compared with this world. Take your imagination and see it for what it is.

Billions of stars and galaxies with worlds of souls in different types of bodies. Each soul is a spirit connection directly to God. What each creature sees, God sees. God likely started by creating substance as science sees it. The big bang. Then he develops life and connects himself to it. Billions, maybe trillions, of years pass as God experiences consciousness on a broad scale through the eyes of countless lives--possibly countless universes. If all live is directly connected to God, he knows all at once. He can further predict what will happen since he has some hand in the programming of each soul. That's called providence. Look it up if you don't have a definition. He can direct consciousness toward a desired goal, while simultaneously allowing it freedom of the soul's own will. This is entirely Biblical, only with a scientific and material-world comparison.

A mirror can only reflect what it sees. We are mirrors in a sense reflecting back to God. Ultimately, we are in God's image, but he is in ours as well.

Essentially, we are living in a story God tells to us. We are fish that are not swimming, we are swum. We are birds that are not flying, we are flown. Make a move in this reality and you are engaging a governed law for a governed reaction to your action. That puts God in complete control of all you do, but paradoxically, you are doing the driving as well.

Don't assume God is JUST a computer. We have no way of comparing our reality to His. We just know it's much more refined than ours. Subtle to our gross. How else will we learn to behave well when we arrive at our first day of the real reality? You are inheriting the universe. That takes boot camp first. You may be running your own solar system in the next life for all you know. You may be ruler of an other-worldly kingdom on some amazing planet for your next leg of education. Personally, I trust what most religions say: We inherit something beyond what we currently see. It makes sense when I can demonstrate that my consciousness rises as my body decays. Consciousness is the only exception to decay in the universe that we know about.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Dear SuperiorEd

Good thread, it very much sounds like we were created by a future computer programmer. All we are, are 0&1’s a lot of them god is no more than a future computer technician. I just love it.

Oh and by the way when you say I am wrong it was one of your boffins that came up with the idea.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

The proof is imprinted in your DNA my friend.

If there exists extrospective evidence for God, I would be more than happy to accpet it, but the actual proof is still lacking.

Truth is free and easily seen.

Truth may be free, but I suspect it is not so easily seen.

We demonstrate the proof for God each day we live as a mirror for his creation.

An atheist is bound to challenge this assertion, as it is essentially a perspective based on the foundation of the belief in the existence of God. In the absence of a belief in God, one's daily life does not demonstrate the proof for God, at least not to the non-believer.

Your title is misleading. There isn't any "proof" here, just hearsay and conjecture. Proof for many (including myself) requires more than mere Platonic thought. People have been trying to reason out the existence of god for thousands of years, but it just doesn't work. If your interested, you might read up on Thomas Aquinas and his five logical proofs of god.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Dear SuperiorEd

A TWO FOOT CUBE, the whole universe and all that is in it one million years from now. Programs with in programs in fact multiple universes where every eventuality is played out. Nothing exists till someone sees it. And all God is, is a computer programmer perhaps one that got a D- at collage.

At the end of the day the joke really is on us. Which ever way you go the joke is on us. As the song says “the game of life is hard to play, your going to loss it any way”

I just love it.

What is our purpose for living? An animal's purpose appears to be to find a mate and procreate. In order to accomplish this they have to stay alive long enough to find a mate, so they eat to stay alive. Eat and procreate.

What is human's purpose for living? It appears our purpose for living is to find a purpose for living. Funny how we try and find purpose for our lives...or assign a purpose for living. If we didnt, I think we would all go mad (crazy/insane).

Good morning.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

If the bible is true, and God created man in His image, then God is a very damaged and flawed deity.

While you get individual people who are totally godlike - and I am not joking here - I am referring to those people who daily risk their lives saving others, you also get the total arseholes of the world - murderers, abusers, and everyone who ever harms a child in any way.

So, was the creator saying that he or she is in need of the psych ward?

Because people are the best and the worst.

Having said that, I am a Jesus believer, but I do not rule out others who teach love, forgiveness, kindness and charity.

The Hermetic axiom is: "As above, so below. As below, so above." The fractal nature of reality is a reflection above and below. Read the Emerald Tablet.

Originally posted by STL0913
reply to post by STL0913

 

Oh yea my point was that if it were possible to simulate a universe just like ours down to the sub-atomic level then there is no limit. We are in a simulation now and will create a simulation where beings will live and they will create another simulation where beings will live, etc.

Yes. I have read Aquinas. The proof is here: Nothing rises above its source apart from conscious effort. Evolution and natural selection are totally dependent on inanimate matter rising to consciousness by accident. Think about how preposterous that assumption is. We cannot see or demonstrate this happening anywhere in nature apart form consciousness. There are NO exceptions. Find one. I dare you. All matter decays and recycles. Consciousness starts at nothing and builds toward a source. Science says the Earth is our source. How can this be if we are vastly more complex than the Earth? Because our source is vastly more complex than us and the Earth.

Originally posted by LessThanLethal
Your title is misleading. There isn't any "proof" here, just hearsay and conjecture. Proof for many (including myself) requires more than mere Platonic thought. People have been trying to reason out the existence of god for thousands of years, but it just doesn't work. If your interested, you might read up on Thomas Aquinas and his five logical proofs of god.

edit on 23-3-2011 by LessThanLethal because: My text color didn't show up right.

But then again, you only have a two foot cube that has been developed for less than a century. Try a billion years of development. Imagine a billion years of advanced ethical trial and error. You would be left with Love as the primary motivator for bestowing life where there was none. Anything less than love is not bestowal. Living requires suffering for reward. Here's an example:

Suffering leads to reward. Reward leads to suffering. There are no exceptions. Show me one and I'll point to something that came before the other. Buddha almost had it right. He tried to escape suffering through renunciation. He was wrong. The direction suffering takes is what is important.

Example: If you smoke (seeking free reward), you get cancer. If you suffer an education, you get a paycheck. Suffer the cost of a house payment and you get a house. Seek cheap sex and you get VD. Plan ahead with patience (suffering) and you succeed. Rush in and you likely fail. I could keep giving example after example. Christ suffered ever step in this life. Why? How could the Bible possibly get EVERYTHING right. You reap what you sow.

An Atheist will alway fall back on his bias against God. This is what a child does to his father as he grows up. If you have ever been a parent, you realize how eager a young child is to rush in to reward apart from the necessary suffering. Why should this reality be any different? The Earth is essentially a womb and the body a placenta. Birth, death and renewal are everywhere in nature. Why should our life end at the grave? We have plenty of evidence for a spirit that works in reverse order to the material world.

Atheists refuse to believe because they are required to suffer if they do. This is unthinkable to a person who refuses to release the material world. "Where your treasure is, there you heart will be also." The Bible gets it right again.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Dear SuperiorEd

A TWO FOOT CUBE, the whole universe and all that is in it one million years from now. Programs with in programs in fact multiple universes where every eventuality is played out. Nothing exists till someone sees it. And all God is, is a computer programmer perhaps one that got a D- at collage.

At the end of the day the joke really is on us. Which ever way you go the joke is on us. As the song says “the game of life is hard to play, your going to loss it any way”

I just love it.