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Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

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posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





The Earth cannot be our source since we have surpassed the Earth in complexity.


That's a very weird statement...complexity is in the eye of the beholder. DaVinci was brilliant, but if you showed him plans of a spaceshuttle, he'd be clueless and call it "too complex".

And when it comes down to it, we're all made of the same molecules, which are produced in stars without the intervention of a creator:



edit on 10-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Let me go one better for you. The first life, according to evolutionary theory, was the Prokaryote. It has a flagellum that can move it with purpose. Look here at this LINK.

I give you this link on purpose. It goes against my argument. It goes against my argument with this statement.

"Living cells are filled, of course, with complex structures whose detailed evolutionary origins are not known. Therefore, in fashioning an argument against evolution one might pick nearly any cellular structure, the ribosome for example, and claim – correctly – that its origin has not been explained in detail by evolution."

And this is the best science can do. I, however, can go back to the texts of ancient shepherds and give you physics accurately (Light-Genesis 1 / Wave John 1 / Made form what was not visible Hebrews 11:1). I can produce a sequence of events for the formation of it all (Genesis 1). I can give you God's response to man about the Creation. I can give you a correct psychological description of human nature with reasons and purpose for the way it all plays out. I can demonstrate all that you know based on all that the Bible reveals.

Best of all, God said FIAT LUX at the beginning of it all. Light cannot be seen. It only reveals an image of what is there. Not only this, but light also produces the mass and form of what is there. Not only this, but the form is there because of wavelength. A word (LOGOS) is a representation of wave. This is the (as of today) unexplained property of Light and Mass and Time and Gravity.

Again, sheep herders gave me the answers through God's (light) Word. He provided enlightenment when His word illuminated particle from wave. God is not seen, just like light is not seen unless it shines in a dark place, revealing the reflection to our consciousness. AMAZING!!!

Now, unless you just think the sheep herders got lucky, this is proof to you, enough to produce an ounce of faith. That's all you need to get started on your journey to Faith, Hope and Love.




Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I'm really disappointed in your reply to this poster. You stated "I will prove" but you failed to deliver. I'm looking at this objectively, from a removed viewpoint. To see others blindly post you praise and agreement over sharing a personal religious view also does not lend support to your writing. There is difference between adding to the content of a thread, and being a cheering gallery of yes men.

This is not an attack, and I'm not stating beliefs for or against. I just feel you failed to prove.

NOTE: this is for the OP. I meant to reply 'on' another persons post, wherein you had replied tothem, but I see I hit the wrong button. I apologize.
edit on 4/10/2011 by LargeFries because: added 'NOTE" cause i think i messed up my post by not hitting "Quote"

edit on 10-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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DaVinci would recognize the stamp of man on the design. He would be amazed, no doubt, as we should be about God's designs, which make the shuttle look like a Lego set. By comparison, one human cell vastly outstrips the entire design of the shuttle. By comparison, DNA could hold 1000 shuttle blueprints and still have room for a few uncompressed videos of the Big Band Theory. By comparison, the human brain can process more information than all the computers on earth, combined. By comparison, a human has instructions to reproduce when it gets old. By comparison, the human body uses 91 watts of energy per day. One lump of coal. By comparison, our mind built the shuttle. By no comparison imaginable did we build ourselves by accident from a Prokaryote. Even the design of the prokaryote is more complex than the shuttle.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





The Earth cannot be our source since we have surpassed the Earth in complexity.


That's a very weird statement...complexity is in the eye of the beholder. DaVinci was brilliant, but if you showed him plans of a spaceshuttle, he'd be clueless and call it "too complex".

And when it comes down to it, we're all made of the same molecules, which are produced in stars without the intervention of a creator:



edit on 10-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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More proof. It's easy to come by. We live in a purpose driven reality. Life begins immediately on Earth after the crust forms and liquid water is present. The oldest rocks that have fossils already contain fully formed life. Quantum tunneling theory requires that space curves back in on itself and is super heavy. Objective evidence for God's self-revelation. A finely tuned universe. Inference of parallel universes. Observable dimensions of space. The properties of the universe cannot be established by random processes, as stated in Scientific American. Properties of nature have exactly the values to sustain life. The Big Band produced no matter, only light. This guy is really good.




posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I'm sorry, but you've not provided any proof of any creator at all. "It's complex", "It's pretty", and random speculations by people with credentials (I've been trying to find some published work stating that photons were the only thing produced in the Big Bang, but I've not found a single thing) are not proof.

Furthermore, nobody is saying 'chance accident'...it's more like 'consequence of the laws of physics'. So...false dilemma and all sorts of other logically fallacious crap in this thread.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





Life begins immediately on Earth after the crust forms and liquid water is present.


And more nonsense based on pseudo-scientific sources like pathways.org


We know for a fact the earth around 4.5bil years old (+/- 200mil yrs), and the first single celled organisms only showed up around 3.5bil years ago. But who care about facts, right?




The oldest rocks that have fossils already contain fully formed life.


Also not correct...the oldest dated contains no fossils




Quantum tunneling theory requires that space curves back in on itself and is super heavy. Objective evidence for God's self-revelation.


How? No where in the theory does it state magic (aka god) is required for it to hold up...



The properties of the universe cannot be established by random processes, as stated in Scientific American.


First of all, how about you find the original quote...good luck, I couldn't. Apart from that, scientists aren't saying it was random...the universe we see today is the product of physics.



Properties of nature have exactly the values to sustain life.




Exactly the values to sustain life, huh? If life was the goal, it's a giant failure given that most of the universe would kill lifeforms we know of.



This guy is really good.


...at lying and spreading misinformation, yes.




edit on 11-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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Your video below of Neal D forgets the miracle of Earth. There are always reasons to doubt, but it takes common sense to remove it.

And yet, here we are, protected by the gravitational pull of Saturn and Jupiter. Protected by the atmosphere. Protected by the magnetosphere. Protected by our distance to the sun. Protected by the moon. Protected from the solar wind. Protected by climate. Protected by water. Blessed with fine tuning. Gravitational constant, ratio of electrons:protons, ratio of electromagnetic force, expansion rate of the universe, mass of the universe, cosmological constant. And, protected by our location in the galaxy.

“All the evidence available in the biological sciences supports the core proposition of traditional natural theology– that the cosmos is a specially designed whole with life and mankind as its fundamental goal and purpose, a whole in which all facets of reality, from the size of galaxies to the thermal capacity of water, have their meaning and explanation in this central fact.” (Michael Denton, Nature’s Destiny, p. 389)

“There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature's numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming.” (Paul Davies)

“As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?” (George Greenstein)

A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question. (Fred Hoyle)

For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries. (Robert Jastrow)





Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




Exactly the values to sustain life, huh? If life was the goal, it's a giant failure given that most of the universe would kill lifeforms we know of.



This guy is really good.


...at lying and spreading misinformation, yes.




edit on 11-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I love how you completely ignore the other criticism that shows what a bunch of nonsense the video is you posted


Ignorance at its best..
edit on 12-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



And yet, here we are, protected by the gravitational pull of Saturn and Jupiter.


Guess they took a break 65 million years ago.


Protected by the atmosphere. Protected by the magnetosphere. Protected by our distance to the sun. Protected by the moon. Protected from the solar wind. Protected by climate. Protected by water. Blessed with fine tuning. Gravitational constant, ratio of electrons:protons, ratio of electromagnetic force, expansion rate of the universe, mass of the universe, cosmological constant. And, protected by our location in the galaxy.


Yep, everything is so perfect. I suppose if it were any other way we wouldn't be here at all! How that transforms into evidence of a creator is beyond my understanding though. Seems like someone is just a tad impatient to find the answer as to where the universe came from.


“All the evidence available in the biological sciences supports the core proposition of traditional natural theology– that the cosmos is a specially designed whole with life and mankind as its fundamental goal and purpose, a whole in which all facets of reality, from the size of galaxies to the thermal capacity of water, have their meaning and explanation in this central fact.” (Michael Denton, Nature’s Destiny, p. 389)


Narcissism.



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 06:19 AM
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More proof. Rebirth of the nation of Israel. 1948 was a banner year for the world. The prophecies of Ezekiel were verified. This is the single biggest event in our world today, verified by God's self-revelation. Part 2 is the most revealing of all from a standpoint of our current world. You can ignore the proof here, but you cannot deny that this is a fulfillment of God drawing the future into the past for us to see as it comes by our view. Only God can do this. The rest of what I say is verified with fulfilled revelation. This is proof. 26 minutes spent watching these two videos will change your view.

Why does this prove a creator? Only a God capable of creating the universe would know how to project events forward to this day. ATS makes it clear that we are here, at the end before judgment. Clear proof. Matthew 24 is the blossoming of the fig tree and the signs of this day. The fig tree is Israel.







reply to post by sirnex
 



edit on 12-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



Originally posted by SuperiorEd
More proof. Rebirth of the nation of Israel.


...um...no, that's not proof of any creative act. It's an act of a group which managed to cling on culturally after a long diaspora constantly obsessing over it as a cultural act to the point where they worked as hard as possible to get it and then, due to one of the most horrible atrocities enacted by humanity (if not the most), gaining a piece of land back again as a way of compensating a group that had been reduced by nearly half. The Jews were already trying to regain that land prior to the holocaust, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Furthermore, in Matthew 24 Jesus is making a prophecy about things he is claiming will happen to the people he is talking to, in no uncertain terms is he talking about things that will occur within the next 50ish years (and even 50 years is generous considering how short lifespans were back then).



Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Who is he talking to? He's talking to people of his time. And no, the reference to the fig tree is not Israel...


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:


Why did he say that? Oh, because he explained how the people who he is talking to will realize the world is about to end.

Jesus was wrong on this, why is it that Christians bring up the failed prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24 as proof of anything?
edit on 12/4/11 by madnessinmysoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





This is the single biggest event in our world today


- Economic crisis
- Developing nations catching up to developed nations (China vs US vs India vs ...)
- Japanese tsunami
- Wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
- Uprising of the people in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria, Bahrain, etc
- Oceans being overfished which will cause a giant problem for billions of people in the future
- Water shortage
- Rising sea levels flooding entire countries (Bangladesh and Maldives)
- 6.6mil children dying in Africa every year...more deaths than the holocaust!!

All more important or significant (because it impacts many more people) than the country of Israel


Also, I'm happy madness is back, I started losing my patience and had to let South Park videos speak for me


People have claimed the "end is near" for thousands of years...we're still waiting...even though it's always supposed to happen soon(TM)


Also found a hilarious quote by Stephen Colbert...

"How to disprove evolution you ask? Easy! Take a glass of water, throw in a live mouse, put a lid on it...and come back half an hour later. If it hasn't turned into a dolphin, you disproved evolution!"



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 



9And when you hear of wars and insurrections (disturbances, disorder, and confusion), do not become alarmed and panic-stricken and terrified; for all this must take place first, but the end will not [come] immediately.

10Then He told them, Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. [II Chron. 15:6; Isa. 19:2.]

11There will be mighty and violent earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences (plagues: [c]malignant and contagious or infectious epidemic diseases which are deadly and devastating); and there will be sights of terror and great signs from heaven.
24They will fall by [f]the mouth and the edge of the sword and will be led away as captives to and among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed).(A)

25And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [[g]without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring ([h]the echo) of the tossing of the sea,(B)

26Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

27And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor).(C)

28Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near.
32Truly I tell you, this generation ([j]those living at that definite period of time) will not perish and pass away until all has taken place.

33The [k]sky and the earth ([l]the universe, the world) will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

34But take heed to yourselves and be on your guard, lest your hearts be overburdened and depressed (weighed down) with the [m]giddiness and headache and [n]nausea of self-indulgence, drunkenness, and worldly worries and cares pertaining to [the


This post was part of a special Halloween Homage to Orson Wells.
Jumping out from behind the server and shouting BOO!
business of] this life, and [lest] that day come upon you suddenly like a trap or a noose;

35For it will come upon all who live upon the face of the entire earth.
36Keep awake then and watch at all times [be discreet, attentive, and ready], praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things [taken together] that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man. LUKE Ch. 21



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by Faith2011
 


Again, the bible is only proof of what people BELIEVED to be true 2000 years ago. It's not an accurate description of reality...in fact, much has been proven to be completely wrong.

So in short, your scripture quotes are about as useful as these quotes by Master Yoda:



"Lost a planet, Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing... how embarrassing."




"Like fire across the galaxy, the Clone Wars spread. In league with the wicked Count Dooku more and more planets slip. Upon the Jedi Knights falls the duty to lead the newly formed Army of the Republic."





"Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side."




"Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future."



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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When he says, " 32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

He is talking about the generation that sees the fig tree bloom again. This is Israel and the generation is us. Those born in 1948 will not pass until all these things are fulfilled. This is the generation Christ spoke of.




Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



Originally posted by SuperiorEd
More proof. Rebirth of the nation of Israel.


...um...no, that's not proof of any creative act. It's an act of a group which managed to cling on culturally after a long diaspora constantly obsessing over it as a cultural act to the point where they worked as hard as possible to get it and then, due to one of the most horrible atrocities enacted by humanity (if not the most), gaining a piece of land back again as a way of compensating a group that had been reduced by nearly half. The Jews were already trying to regain that land prior to the holocaust, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Furthermore, in Matthew 24 Jesus is making a prophecy about things he is claiming will happen to the people he is talking to, in no uncertain terms is he talking about things that will occur within the next 50ish years (and even 50 years is generous considering how short lifespans were back then).



Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Who is he talking to? He's talking to people of his time. And no, the reference to the fig tree is not Israel...


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:


Why did he say that? Oh, because he explained how the people who he is talking to will realize the world is about to end.

Jesus was wrong on this, why is it that Christians bring up the failed prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24 as proof of anything?
edit on 12/4/11 by madnessinmysoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 12:09 AM
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You just fulfilled prophecy. That's amazing!

2 Peter 3

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





This is the single biggest event in our world today


- Economic crisis
- Developing nations catching up to developed nations (China vs US vs India vs ...)
- Japanese tsunami
- Wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
- Uprising of the people in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria, Bahrain, etc
- Oceans being overfished which will cause a giant problem for billions of people in the future
- Water shortage
- Rising sea levels flooding entire countries (Bangladesh and Maldives)
- 6.6mil children dying in Africa every year...more deaths than the holocaust!!

All more important or significant (because it impacts many more people) than the country of Israel


Also, I'm happy madness is back, I started losing my patience and had to let South Park videos speak for me


People have claimed the "end is near" for thousands of years...we're still waiting...even though it's always supposed to happen soon(TM)


Also found a hilarious quote by Stephen Colbert...

"How to disprove evolution you ask? Easy! Take a glass of water, throw in a live mouse, put a lid on it...and come back half an hour later. If it hasn't turned into a dolphin, you disproved evolution!"



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


All the examples I listed can be perfectly explained with rationality and logic...no magic creator required. Hell, even the wars we are in are less worse than the world wars, and the end didn't come then either



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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You are scoffing, just as God presented it in 2 Peter 3. These verses then point out something interesting. 1000 years is as a day to the lord. What he is referring to is an age of 7000 years. Six days of work and one day of rest. From Adam to Jesus was approximately 4 days (4000) years. From Jesus to today is 2000. He is patient, but the end of this age is nearly here and will show up as birth pangs according to Matthew 24. It says earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars and signs and wonders in the sky.

Let's just take one of those examples and see if this holds true that it is like birth pangs.

National Geophysical Data Center
1 AD to 1000: 15 earthquakes 7.0 or higher (NGDC)
(One every 66 years)
1000 to 1800: 114 7.0 or higher (NGDC)
(One every 7 years)
1800 to 1900: 115 7.0 or higher (NGDC)
(One every 10 months)
(1935 Richter Scale invented)
1900 to 1980: 774 7.0 or higher (NGDC)
(One every 37 days)
United States Geological Survey
1980 to 2000: 255 earthquakes 7.0 or higher (USGS /NEIC)
(One every 28 days)
2000 to 2008: 127 earthquakes 7.0 or higher (USGS / NEIC)
(One every 26 days)
2009: 17 earthquakes 7.0 or higher (USGS / NEIC)
(One every 21 days)
2010: 20 earthquakes 7.0 or higher (USGS / NEIC)
(One every 18 days)
2011: 6 earthquakes 7.0 or higher in 3 months (USGS / NEIC)
(One every 15 days)

Scoff if you like, but it won't change destiny. Your words will condemn you. Better to repent and develop your salvation with fear and trembling.

Phillippians 2

2 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. 14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”[c] Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16 as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain. 17 But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18 So you too should be glad and rejoice with me.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


All the examples I listed can be perfectly explained with rationality and logic...no magic creator required. Hell, even the wars we are in are less worse than the world wars, and the end didn't come then either



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


You do realize that we didn't have seismographs until the 20th century right? The only way we know of earthquakes before that is through surviving historical accounts. Meaning there is no way to accurately determine the number of quakes or their magnitude.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





What he is referring to is an age of 7000 years.


And more nonsense...we know for a fact men has been on earth longer than that


In short, the bible is off by over 140,000 years...not even close




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