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Something just occured to me.......

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 01:20 PM
I find the range of possible explanations as to why ETs have not invaded yet, interesting. :-)

Has anyone considered the possibility, based on the most recently discovered number of exoplanets that:

1. The ETs do not need to invade us for resources, as some of you have suggested (a view which is also expressed by Dr. Robert Wood, a physicist, aeronautical engineer and retired Deputy Director of McDonnell Douglas) because our Solar System's asteroid belt, the Kuiper Belt and Oort cloud has so much more in the way of gases and mineral resources, more easily accessible for mining? The ETs may now be happily mining away in those regions of the Solar System, and we'd never find out. Perhaps when they get bored of supervising their robotic miners and need a break, they fly down deeper into the Sun's gravity well, to take a closer look at Earth, land to stretch their legs and breathe some fresh air, take in the local scenery, enjoy the warmth of our star then take off again?

The crashed UFOs may be the result of some fighter jock's itchy trigger finger, downing an unlucky craft.

2. The ETs may have visited many of the earth-like exoplanets we in our own galactic neighborhood have started to discover, and to the best of our knowledge have no detectable intelligent ET civilisations, otherwise we'd already have discovered them via our SETI program. The ETs may visit those planets, land on the more hospitable ones and possibly mine these for resources. They then notice our Earth and decide we are worthy of exploration, send a few UFOs to survey our planet, and try to figure out why our planet is populated by an emerging technological civilisation, and why the nearby earth like exo planets are either barren of intelligent life, or have no technological civilisation on them yet?

3. The possibility of hostile ETs may be a reality, however they may opt to mine the other Earth like exoplanets that have no intelligent life forms first, and once they have exhausted those resources, they may then turn their attention first to our Kuiper Belt, Oort cloud, asteroid belt, Jovian moons, and then Mars, Venus and last Earth. Perhaps the only reason they haven't invaded us yet is that they are still busily mining everywhere else, and it is important to recall that some of these exoplanets are larger than our Earth, and thus have more mineral resources to mine.

Perhaps they may every now and then send scouting parties to monitor how we are developing on Earth, and they may schedule their invasion depending on how fast our technology evolves. We are already developing for real, defense technologies that only ten years ago would have been considered science fiction: electromagnetic shields to deflect molten copper from RPGs; Directed energy weapons, including a laser rifle to be used by combat army soldiers; electric propulsion drives using ions (in the Star Trek universe, the starships use ion drives for sublight propulsion) that have been used by NASA to explore the asteroid belt; a physicist named Alcubierre has devised a theoretical model for what sounds like a Star Trek like "warp" drive, and subsequent researchers have refined Alcubierre's approach by combining Maxwell's electrodynamics equations, to use electromagnetic energy to generate a local "warp" field around the star ship, this local "warp" field can theoretically travel at superluminal speeds (i.e. faster than light), carrying the star ship inside the local "warp" field, without introducing special relativistic effects such as time dilation.

With reference to the "warp" drive, the above references to theoretical research may sound flimsy as a basis for engineering a real "warp" drive, but these theoretical studies show that it is not impossible to devise interstellar drives that allow a star ship to travel faster than light, within the currently understood frame work of the laws of physics. The work will remain theoretical until someone with enough time, money and resources can figure out how to engineer a practical interstellar drive. Historically, the British Interplanetary Society did a theoretical study of a hypothetical moon landing several decades before NASA placed Apollo 11 on the surface of the moon. The electric propulsion or ion drive was also a set of theoretical studies before someone with enough time, money and resources was able to figure out how to engineer a prototype that could be tested in a physics laboratory.

Perhaps the ETs will invade us when they figure out our technology development efforts into interstellar drives, shields and directed energy weapons reaches a tipping point just before we become technologically advanced enough to pose a real threat to them.

The above raises the question, why then haven't they invaded us once they figured out our technology is exponentiating? Perhaps because for the moment the ETs may be stretched thin exploring other emerging technological civilisations, it is a big galaxy out there. Or perhaps because they have evaluated our military R&D, chuckled and thought 'with their approach, it will take them ages to advance their weapons systems to the point where they can threaten us.'

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Argyll

Surely a civilization that is capable of inter-stellar travel is 100's if not 1000's of years in advance of us if they (if "they" exist!) wanted to harm us, surely they would have done it say, 200 years ago, when we were a civilization that had no nuclear powers, no advanced weapons (at least to present day levels) we would have been fighting with swords and pikes and would have been an absolute walk over!

Probably just the ramblings of a man that's just finished a six pack...........but I thought I'd share it

Which is precisely why I don't buy into the the theory that the aliens are working with the government. they could take what they want when they want and there would be no need for a treaty.

As far as the six pak is concerned, the ramblings are almost definatley a by-product( Happens to me all the time). But I think your thought process is logical. Thanx for sharing.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:10 PM
reply to post by Primal Scream

Hello Primal Scream,

You make an interesting point, however having three fingers is not a limitation in terms of manufacturing mass produced goods.

We humans have developed entire automated robotic factories to assemble anything from integrated circuits, through to motor vehicles using robotic arms with three fingered hands; actually two fingers and a thumb.

I remember reading in an automation technology's magazine, book or web site (I cannot recall which at this time), where robotics research pioneers did a study, to determine what was the minimum number of fingers a robot hand needed to carry out any required manufacturing assembly task. The answer they came up with was two fingers and a thumb.

They did this because at the time the study was done, it proved to be very expensive to build a five fingered robotic hand. Not just in terms of research and development dollars, but in manufacturing them, devising an effective control algorithm for them, and in terms of maintenance. The first robotic tendons were made from materials available at the time such as steel cables or polymers, and these tended to break rather often, so they needed to have a robotic hand that was comparatively cheaper to maintain, and a three fingered robot hand was the best option.

There was a research institute, I think it was either in Japan or the USA, that eventually much later on devise a four finger, one thumb robotic hand but the researchers were disappointed at how often the tendons broke. Eventually when carbon fiber technology matured to the point where they could build stronger artificial tendons, two fingered and one thumb industrial robot arms were already established as the norm for manufacturing.

I have worked for ten years in different roles in electronics manufacturing, and once a production paradigm is established, companies become very nervous about changing something that is proven in the field. They become nervous from a cost increase point of view; no manager would boldly say to company executives "We can change our two finger one thumb robot arms, to four finger one thumb." because the executives who are always cost sensitive, would suggest that it would be prohibitively expensive to retool the manufacturing assembly lines with new robotic arms, and it may cost more to maintain them, the costs of purchasing new software licenses for the more sophisticated control algorithms, the costs of training the maintenance staff to repair or service the new robotic arms, the costs of rewarehousing for new robotic hands, to which the manager would reply with embarrassment that she or he doesn't know and is not able to project what the additional costs would be to have four finger and one thumb robot arms.

New manufacturing set ups would also rather spend less on the purchase, installation/tooling, maintenance and spare parts warehousing on two finger one thumb robotic arms if they can do the same job. Any manager suggesting using more expensive four fingered one thumb robotic arms in a manufacturing environment, for no real added value to the manufactured products, would face political suicide within their company to the detriment of their career advancement.

My apologies for digressing from the topic on hand, but I thought it important to establish why our civilisation has a preference for two finger one thumb robotic hands in automated production lines, to illustrate there is no real proven advantage in using a four finger one thumb robotic hand. Thus an Extraterrestrial with two fingers and one thumb are not at any real disadvantage.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:19 PM
reply to post by clintdelicious

Excellent point Argyll,

I have had a similar thought where once ETs realised we'd exploded our first nuclear device back in 1945, and then used two against our own fellow human beings on August 6 and 9 1945, they became more interested in us which may explain the Roswell incident and their rising interest in us. Then when we began (both the former Soviet Union and the USA) to stockpile nuclear weapons, to the extent where we could wipe out most life on Earth within 48 hours.

We may have sent out inadvertently at first, the message that effectively says to them "Don't mess with us, or we'll apply a scorched earth policy!"

I remember watching a movie called Altered, in which one of the main characters tells his friends, that if one of them found and killed just one Extraterrestrial, to avenge themselves for being abducted, that the human race would simply be gone out of existence, there would be no war. The implication was that the ETs were so technologically advanced that they could wipe us out very fast, and our military would be powerless to stop them. A similar theme was illustrated in the much maligned movie Battlefield Earth with Forest Whitaker and John Travolta, where John Travolta's character expressed with sarcasm how the Earth's military forces could only offer up about 15 minutes' worth of resistance until they were all wiped out. The Tom Cruise movie reimagining of HG Wells' War of the Worlds, has one character mentioning how the Extraterrestrials brought the world's most powerful military down in less than two days.

I would agree with the themes presented in these movies, thus the most effective strategy a less advanced civilization (us) would have over a more advanced civilization (ETs), is for us to destroy our own biosphere and take ourselves with it. Nobody can fight that, no matter how advanced. Sometimes I think the reason our civilisation built enough nukes to destroy Earth's biosphere hundreds or thousands of times over, was not simply due to the statistics of how many warheads would reliably detonate over or on target, or be able to land within its target's CEP (circular error probable), or to overwhelm any of the enemy's ABM (Anti Ballistic Missile) defences, or to make sure hardened targets would be destroyed, but to launch so many missiles, that no matter how hard the ET UFOs tried to shoot them down, they'd be overwhelmed and not be capable of shooting them all down, and even if they did shoot them down, chances are the warhead may be broken up and spread radioactive debris over a wide geographical region, the extent of which would depend on the prevailing weather conditions at the time of the battle. So even if none of the warheads reached their targets, there would be enough radioactive fall out to make the Earth a radioactively "fried" Earth, if not a scorched one.

With the unfortunate Earthquake and Tsunami that hit Japan, we can see what radioactive contamination around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants, is doing to the local geographic region. Nobody can stay there for too long because the level of radioactivity reported several days ago at the Scientific American website was 400 milliSievert (mSv), in comparison a worker at an USA nuclear power plant is permitted to be exposed to a maximum of 50 mSv *per year* which works out to 50/365.25 = 0.137 mSv per day. This means a biological life form staying in the area for one day would be exposed to over 2900 times the maximum "safe" dosage.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 03:51 PM
reply to post by 2manyquestions

Hello 2manyquestions,

I agree with your analysis.

I have often thought about the microbiological mix on our own biosphere, with regards to viruses, bacteria, fungi and protozoans, since I first saw the original War of the Worlds, Alien Hunter, Star Trek, Babylon 5, The X-Files, and the reimagined War of the Worlds.

A technologically advanced ET race needs to figure out for themselves how (to them) aliens such as ourselves can coexist symbiotically with microbes found naturally on planet Earth.

If you are eating something and are squeamish, please stop reading now and resume once you've finished your snack or meal.

In the human large intestine, medical researchers have found that it contains an interesting estimated mix of 500 to 1000 species of bacteria that exists naturally in a symbiotic relationship with us. Without these bacteria, we'd essentially starve to death even if we ate three square meals a day together with snacks. These bacteria digest certain carbohydrates that allows us to extract vital nutrients; we cannot digest these complex carbohydrates without these gut bacteria. Some medical scientists have gone as far to suggest that this region of our gastrointestinal tract should be treated as a previously undiscovered organ of the human body because it performs such a distinct and vital function keeping us all alive.

This discovery may explain the allegations made by some abductees of anal probing by Extraterrestrials. The ETs may have long ago discovered this organ and want to study in more detail how the bacteria survive inside this organ, how they live in a symbiotic relationship with our immune system, and how they contribute to our survival. Perhaps they hope to replicate this specialised structure in their own digestive tracts, to permit them to consume and digest a wide variety of Earth vegetation we humans have long put into a variety of salads or cooked with our meats, fish and chickens. This may provide another explanation why they haven't invaded us yet.

The ETs need to be careful with incorporating these Earth bacteria into their own large intestines because some species of bacteria are opportunistic pathogens, in the sense they will cause disease if the normal immune system response is weakened.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:05 PM
Earth is protected by the Venusians from any and all alien threats. They even intervene when we get careless with our nukes and would steer any asteroid clear long before NASA would even detect it.

All these disaster scenerios are just HOLLYWOOD script.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 04:14 PM
reply to post by neilrued

Very interesting! I have not thought of that connection before (bacteria in the intestines, and the probing). Kudos for such an original idea (at least to me). You make an excellent point.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:47 PM
reply to post by 2manyquestions

Thank you for your feed back.

I must confess that years ago when I first heard of the anal probing some abductees were mentioning, that I was skeptical, and I even thought these people were either being ridiculuous, or had some repressed homosexual desires, or had simply hoaxed their abduction experience, realised it had gotten out of hand and mentioned the anal probing as a joke to gently let the media, and the public at large down about the faking of their incidents.

Then years later I saw in a bona fide Science television program about these bacteria living in the large intestine, medical researchers were taking stool samples and using an endoscope to take samples from the inner walls of the large intestine. Later I read on the Internet about abductees' anal probing claims and then I made the possible connection with the ETs doing their own medical research on human beings.

I now no longer ridicule people who make outrageous claims; they may sound outrageous at first, but once you learn enough about science and find out new discoveries, these claims don't seem as far fetched or as ridiculuous as they sound at first. I blush when I think about my ridiculing people out of my own ignorance because as an educated person, I really should know better, and not fall victim to pre-judging as a result of my own biases due to being too involved with paradigms. In fact the scientific method tries to teach us to avoid paradigms and pre-judgements, and not to be too confining in our interpretations of natural laws.

Scientists who use the scientific method to dismiss all reported UFO sightings, or reports from abductees out of hand without examining the reports with the attention and true scientific analyses they deserve, are doing Science a disfavor, in my humble opinion.

In the past, non-UFO outrageous claims by so-called "fringe" scientists have been ridiculed by the scientific establishment because they contradicted the established paradigms of the time. Some outrageous or ridiculuous ideas used to be:
1. Plate tectonics theory;
2. Special theory of relativity;
3. To some extent Quantum Mechanics;
4. About 20 to 30 years ago: String theory;
5. Before the mid-1970's: Cosmology;
6. Before 1978: Black Holes;
7. Since 1934 the existence of Dark Matter in the Universe.

Of course on the other hand, just because we see something in the sky we can't explain, it doesn't make it an ET piloted UFO. There may be alternative explanations to be considered:
1. Could be ball lightning;
2. Could be the planet Venus;
3. Could be an unknown particle event high in the atmosphere;
4. Could be an orbiting military satellite or the International Space Station, caught at the right angle by sunlight;
5. Could be an experimental military aircraft of some kind; some people have speculated on such craft using pulse detonation engines;
6. Could be human designed, built and flown UFOs.

The famous Nobel Prize winning physicist Dr Stanton Freedman did investigate declassified UFO reports and concluded that a small percentage of these reports may be explained as UFO craft under intelligent control.

I have seen one strange bright light in the sky in the early dark of a Winter's night, when I was 12 years old. It was flying away at some distance, moving fast tracing out a square shape. I stared at it with fascination for a while, trying to figure out how far away it was. I couldn't tell if it was a small object flying above the creek near the apartment block where I used to live with my parents, or if it was a larger object further away. The object did not constantly trace out a square shape, it would sometimes bounce back and forth horizontally and then vertically. This was when I used to live in Sydney, Australia, and Australia has no insect species capable of bioluminescence, such as firebugs. There was no nearby source of electric light that may be shining on a group of insects, and even then why would any insect fly in a square pattern, or bounce back and forth vertically or horizontally? One added component to the mystery is that I had a Seiko self-winding watch given to me as a gift by my grandparents, and it stopped working on that same night. My aunt took it back for repairs, and it was returned several days later unable to be repaired. My parents threw away the watch, so I could not keep it for furher or future study.

When I was in my later mid to late 30's I was in a different part of Sydney having visited my brother, and on the way back home late at night, my brother and I looked up at the night sky because I was admiring the clear night sky and could see a fair few stars, and by total fluke we saw several bright objects flying high and fast in the air in a horizontal formation, making no sound, and no visible contrails, They flew in a South to North trajectory, and as they crossed half way across the sky, as they disappeared to the North horizon, we noticed how their initially flat overhead distribution changed gradually and quickly into an arc shape as their aspect allowed us to see them from their horizontal flight attitude. Both bright objects to the left and to the right were spaced further apart than the objects flying in the central region of the formation. The central objects were spaced equally apart, and the two outermost objects were spaced about three to four times the distance, and both outermost objects were spaced the same distance apart. I can't clearly recall if there were a total of five or seven objects, but this is how they looked: * * * * *

If they were small objects flying at a low altitude then we should have heard some sound, but they flew silently, and if they were larger object flying at a high perhaps LEO (Low Earth Orbit) altitude, then they were flying at a phenomenal speed; much faster than military or spy satellites. They traversed from the South the first time we noticed them, to the Northern horizon so fast that they only took seconds; I know this because I had my video camera with me at the time, and did not have time to even switch it on to take some footage. This left me a bit disappointed with the video camera technology of the time because it took about three seconds to switch on, and then more time to focus and begin rolling the tape; even if I was on the ball with my camera ready, the objects would've been gone out of sight by the time I reacted to begin taking video. Even if I had taken the video, that would still not explain what these objects were.

I could rule out natural explanations such as the planet Venus because Venus has never appeared multiple times distributed in a straight line overhead, then appeared to fly very fast from South to the Northern horizon. It may not have been ball lightning because it was a clear cloudless night. It may not have been some unknown particle event because from our latitude, I have never seen or heard people comment about such an occurrence before. I don't think it would've been some other natural event because bats or birds tend to either fly in a disorderly pattern, or at best a V shape, not in a straight formation with perfect alignment with each other, and equidistant spacing between individual bats or birds.

If the observed objects were not human piloted fighter jets or spy planes, or secret military craft using UFO technology, then could they be UFO craft piloted by ETs? That I am not sure of. There was insufficient evidence to go either way.

I recall when the US Air Force denied for almost twenty years they had any type of hypersonic aircraft, then in the late 1970's they revealed the existence of the SR-71 black bird! For twenty years before that, people who'd thought they saw an UFO of ET origin, were actually seeing an SR-71 flying high at an altitude of 100,000+ feet, and flying at Mach 3+, some military analysts have even claimed it could go as fast as Mach 6.0, but the US Air Force has kept the actual flight ceiling and maximum speed of the SR-71 a classified military secret.

The design work for the SR-71 started in the early 1960's starting with the A-12, then proceeding with the YF-12 after the Francis Gary Powers incident when his U2 spy plane was shot down over the former Soviet Union in 1960.

These days no one knows what type of secret craft the US Air Force is working on and test flying off the Groom Lake Nevada test site. This is the reason why human designed, built and test flown UFO military craft cannot be ruled out as a possible explanation of the objects I had seen when I was 12 and twenty years later.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:12 PM
reply to post by Argyll

They're not just gonna annihalate everything, that's not what they want, they want to basically harvest the genetics the desirable genetics on the planet and create a more controllable society, yet they want it to be one were the people remain unware of it's hideous carnivorous controllers. They want to keep their power always, but keep the surface people clueless.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Argyll
Probably just the ramblings of a man that's just finished a six pack...........but I thought I'd share it

I think you should polish off another sixer and start calling ex-girlfriends.

posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 11:07 PM
reply to post by HistoryforPeons

Hello HistoryforPeons,

I don't quite agree that ETs would necessarily use human beings for food, which is my interpretaion of the term carnivorous controllers. One reason is that according to an American explorer named William Seabrook who travelled to West Africa after World War I, lived with a cannibalistic tribe called the Guere. He got the chance to eat flesh from a man who'd been killed by an accident. The natives offered him some rump and loin, to be cooked any way he wanted. Seabrook was curious as to what human flesh tasted like, so he took the opportunity, and ate it with some rice. He described the taste as most similar to veal.

Years later in 1945, Seabrook committed suicide through a drug overdose. Perhaps he could never live with the guilt of having violated the civilized taboo against eating human flesh.

So if human flesh tastes like veal, then perhaps meat from cows and sheep taste better. Also cows and sheep are not intelligent enough to rebel against the people who breed, harvest and eat them. We on the other hand would most certainly mount a major offensive, and find ways to destroy more advanced civilizations who'd attempt to do the same to us.

Perhaps the large amounts of military R&D spent on developing ever more advanced weapons, are to make sure the ETs get a big bloody nose if they attempt to invade us.

It may be possible that the more advanced ETs may not be that far ahead of us in terms of military technology, and our modern jet fighters and highly destructive non-nuclear weapons systems in our military's arsenal may already pose a significant threat to them, which is why they haven't attempted to invade us.

The ARPA has already developed and deployed weapons that are more advanced than those of a mere ten years ago. Now our military forces have night vision equipment, long range sniper rifles that can even account for wind direction, and able to hit a target the size of a quarter from a distance of two football fields. Smart bullets have been developed that can still hit a target if the rifle is moved or not even aimed directly at the target; think of the multi-purpose military weapon depicted in the movie The Fifth Element with Bruce Willis. That technology is now a reality. They have also developed a rifle launched smart grenade, that has the ability to detect when it's been fired inside a room through a window, and will only detonate once it's inside, killing anything hiding in the room. Add to this vehicle mounted weapons that can fire 1,000,000 rounds per minute (16,600 rounds per second), and any ET in this gun's sights would be pulverised in seconds. This weapon is appropriately named the Metal Storm, the fastest modern machine guns have a 30 yard gap between fired rounds, the Metal Storm has a four inch gap between rounds; no chance for even a fast ET to avoid getting shot. If fired at an UFO from a jet fighter? Well the UFO would suffer sufficient damage to be more easily taken out by an air to air missile, even if the Metal Storm was unable to take down the UFO by itself.

In addition to the above weapons systems, military helicopter pilots have had vision assisted aiming for their weapons since the early 1980's; whatever the pilot looks at, is targetted and destroyed when the pilot pushes the "fire" button.

In an earlier post I had stated my opinion that if ETs were highly advanced, then our military may not offer much resistance, and I thought now that if they were much more advanced than we were, they would have invaded us by now. Since we have demonstrated our savagery in war fare against other human beings, to the extent that we even dropped two nukes against fellow human beings to accelerate the end of World War II, and have since developed even more powerful non-nuclear weapons; these facts may give ETs reason to pause and think very carefully about the serious losses they may suffer if they tried attacking us. If human beings are capable of making such savage war against our own kind, and even then the Geneva convention restrains the amount of damage our military forces are allowed to do against an enemy, imagine how unrestrained human military forces would be against a non-human enemy. We'd never hesitate to use savage weapons against hostile ETs, we'd throw everything at them without restraint. We'd even use dum-dum bullets that are banned in the Geneva convention, but not against ETs because from a technical legal point of view, human rights do not apply to them. We may even use explosive bullets against them fired from military rifles.

Within ten years if not sooner, we will have laser rifles that can cause even more damage, by creating a plasma where the beam contacts an enemy's skin. Essentially the plasma created would burn its way through the body of the enemy after creating substantial trauma from third degree burns, so you get the combined power of a bullet with a long range flame thrower. Other advanced technologies in development include an electromagnetic shield for individual soldiers, and we have already developed invisibility cloaks to hide soldiers or aircraft from radar and visible light sensors.

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:09 AM
reply to post by neilrued

We ridicule what we don't understand. I think most of us have been guilty of doing the same. I've witnessed some things in my life that I can't possibly explain, yet when I hear others tell their stories, I too sometimes feel the urge to ridicule. Keeping an open mind and looking for explanations is all we can do.

It's difficult to know what it is people see in the sky, whether it's military or extraterrestrial. I can't say I've ever seen anything except satellites crossing the sky, but your story sounds fascinating. Years ago my family and I were driving home from Las Vegas at night. My dad was driving. While we all slept in the car, he saw an unidentified flying object over the hills in the distance. He had never witnessed anything like it before. He's not the type to make things up, especially when it might inspire ridicule from other people. He said it moved incredibly fast across the sky in complex maneuvers (I imagine up and down side to side), and disappeared as fast as it appeared. I believe he saw what he saw, but there's no knowing what it might have been.

I wonder why it is that these UFOs (if secret military projects) glow in the night. One would think that they would fly classified aircraft without lights at night to remain hidden. On the other hand if the aircraft is lit up, it is easy to observe it's capabilities from the ground. Then again this should also be achievable through the use of sensors, so why the light show??? It always puzzled me why these UFOs made themselves so visible. They don't really need headlights to light their way, because night-vision has come a long way. If the craft is extraterrestrial, then one would think that if they possessed technology which could fly millions of miles into space, they would have technology which allowed for a lights-out flight. Whether human or alien in origin, it makes me question why they would choose to be so visible, even for a moment.

I've also always wondered whether a human being could withstand the G-forces such abrupt maneuvers might impose on a human body. I suppose those G-forces might be equal to what astronauts might experience when taking off during blast-off, but would they really be the same? Might the military control these flying objects remotely from the ground instead of using human pilots? Or is it possible to create an enclosure within the craft to reduce G-forces during flight? There are so many questions left to be answered.

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:45 AM
reply to post by 2manyquestions

Thank you for your response.

Sounds like your Dad had witnessed a similar set of maneuvers I had seen when I was 12 years old.

As to the question of why do some UFOs glow at night, the answer is that it may depend on the power plant they use to generate the anti-gravitic field. Some physicists and aeronautical engineers claiming to have worked reverse or back engineering crashed ET UFOs, further claim that the advanced power plants used by ET UFOs use magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) propulsion. MHD causes an incidental glow of the craft possibly because of the interaction between the intense fields produced by the UFOs' MHD power plant, and the molecules in our atmosphere

Some other physicists and aeronautical engineers who claim to have worked in places such as Area 51 or Groom Lake in Nevada, and further claim to have been involved in reverse engineering recovered UFOs that have crashed, or been shot down by Air Defense installations, have claimed that some of the UFOs are manufactured by human beings, working in Area 51 and use a plasma ring to generate a magnetic field disrupting the force of gravity. The way I understand this, is that the plasma accelerates within the ring, in much the same way that protons (or Hydrogen nuclei) are accelerated in particle accelerators such as the Large Hadron Collider or LHC built by CERN in Europe. For some experiments the LHC can accelerate plasma in the form of mercury ions.

A fast rotating plasma can generate quite a large rotating magnetic field. In one scientific paper, published by the Russian Academy of Sciences, the researchers report of their building a heavy version Searl Effect Generator weighing 350kg or 771.62lbs, (the SEG used neodymium magnets; 110kg of magnets were used to manufacture the stator, and 115kg to manufacture the rotor) to investigate non-linear magnetic effects in a rotating magnetic field machine. The Russian investigators Roschin and Godin have reported when their Searl Effect Generator is rotated to 550rpm, the change in weight of the machine changes to 35%. If I interpret the English language translation correctly, this seems to be that the machine weighs 35% of its original 350kg or 771.62lbs, which calculates to 122.5kg or 270.07lbs. What does this interesting research have to do with plasma particle accelerators? The answer is that some physicists or engineers have speculated on the design of a triangular shaped UFO, built and flown by the US Air Force the size of a football field, that has a ring like structure inside it thought to be a particle accelerator using a mercury plasma. When this plasma is accelerating inside the ring, the weight of the UFO has been estimated to change between 30% to 10% of its original weight, allowing for the use of comparatively small rockets that can lift the entire UFO out of the ground, and using other rockets to maneuver it horizontally.

Essentially the Russian Academy of Sciences' sponsored SEG experiment with a rotating machine, confirms the same effect as is claimed for the 50,000 rpm rotating heavy ion, or mercury ion plasma in the ring shaped particle accelerator or synchrotron, thought to be used in the USAF's triangular shaped UFO.

Here is a web site that reports on an eyewitness account of a football field sized triangular UFO:

One web site claims an up to 89% mass reduction of the vehicle weight or to put it another way, the vehicle weighs 11% of its original weight when the mercury ion plasma is rotating at 50,000 rpm, and a consequential reduction in the g-Forces the pilots must endure, using a mercury ion plasma for triangular shaped UFOs:

Here is another web site with a technical pdf attempting to analyse the aerodynamic properties of triangular shaped UFOs:

The physicists and aeronautical engineers who claim to have back or reverse engineered crashed ET UFOs have further claimed that due to these non-human manufactured UFOs using anti-gravity generators, an incidental side benefit is the reduction in g-Forces in the crew cabin. This allows the craft to accelerate at a phenomenal rate and the crew only feel mild or tolerable g-Forces. The way I understand how this works, is that the anti-gravitic field that allows the craft to rise off the ground is repelling gravity, and once you have almost no gravity, then there are no g-Forces because when you look at Newton's equation for Force due to gravity, F = mg, where g is the acceleration due to gravity or 32 feet/second/second, and if you generate an anti-gravitic field with a vector direction opposite to the gravity vector, then g becomes almost zero. If g tends to be almost zero, then you have almost zero opposite reaction, and thus almost zero g-Forces. Of course these physicists and aeronautical engineers allege that the ETs can control the strength of the anti-gravitic field, or even generate artificial gravity within the UFO's crew cabin, so they can maintain the gravity inside the UFO at say 1g. For horizontal maneuvering, they have other anti-gravitic generators that can permit the UFO to travel in any desired direction, and have gravity generators to cancel out the effects from horizontal g-Forces.

Since our level of technology is not able yet to replicate the power plants used by non-human manufactured UFOs, the best we have done so far, is to generate a magnetic field disruption or MFD that disrupts the gravitational force, and thus using rotating magnetic fields is not generating anti-gravitic forces. In one sense we have done pretty well, and if we accept the claims of the physicists and aeronautical engineers who say they have worked in Area 51; considering we humans have started to reverse engineer these ET craft since the mid-1940's, and 50 years later have come up with a triangular craft using fast rotating mercury ions in a ring shaped particle accelerator or synchrotron, I think we are doing Ok.

According to one of the web sites, whose URL I posted above, is that the observed glow comes from the liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen rocket exhausts used to maneuver the triangular shaped UFO built by humans. The burning of hydrogen in the presence of oxygen produces water vapour. Such rockets used by any air craft, be it human or ET built, has the advantage that it leaves no exhaust trace; no evidence there was any craft in the area because when you sample the air, all you get is water vapour, and water vapour is a common component of the Earth's atmosphere.

What limits our ability to build a working anti-gravity field generator, in my opinion, may be our inability to successfully construct a physical theory combining Quantum Mechanics with General Relativity theory. Once we devise a coherent theory of Quantum Gravity, that can predict the existence of anti-gravity, we may be able to run physics experiments to test those predictions. If these experiments do allow the construction of an anti-gravity generator using our currently understoond theories on electromagnetism, then we will have true UFO propulsion technology. This is because anti-gravity generators will not only cancel out the weight of the UFO craft itself, but it will also provide propulsion for the craft..

Here is an interesting web site on Dr. Robert Wood, a Physicist, Aeronautical Engineer and retired Deputy Director of McDonnell Douglas:

There was an earlier saucer shaped military built air craft called Project Silverbug, that was designed in the mid-1950's:

Another point is that for human pilots, navigation lights are used in any flying craft as a safety measure, to avoid having other aircraft collide with it. I think that ET UFOs also have their lights on for similar reasons. In the past there have been commercial pilots reporting near misses with UFOs, and they managed to swerve to avoid a mid-air collision once they noticed the UFOs' navigation lights. In some cases human pilots have noticed shimmering disks during daylight hours. Collisions between human aircraft and ET UFOs may have been caused by either pilot not noticing the other's craft. Compared with the primitive biplanes of 1914, our modern jet fighters have the most advanced technologies, yet they still manage to crash due to some system failure, or the pilot not being on the ball during the flight, or sometimes fuel lines get clogged up causing a turbine stall or jet flame out. Even ET UFOs may be subject to similar types of accidents.

Flying at night no matter how advanced the technology human or ET developed, is always risky, particularly when flying at low altitudes. Even with the best night vision technology it is always difficult to spot objects such as power lines. These are hard enough to see in the daytime. This is why human pilots including military pilots have a minimum altitude of 3m above a clear field, and higher over built-up areas to avoid colliding with power lines, or two storey houses. I would expect ET UFO pilots to follow similar flight rules, if they want to avoid wrapping their saucer around a high tension electrical cable support tower. Reports of UFOs hovering over houses, always have them either flying at a very slow speed compared to conventional winged aircraft, or dropping vertically from a height if the house they want to hover over is located in the suburbs. This seems to indicate that no matter if the UFOs are of human origin or ET manufacture, they are careful to avoid colliding with anything.

If you have many questions in your mind, the best way to deal with them is to write them down somewhere, then look up the answers by using Google and read up on serious scientific web sites. Be careful to make sure you learn to recognise the difference between disinformation, misinformation, anecdotal evidence (i.e. evidence from only one source), hoaxes and people asking you for money to download a report or something or other. There are many free sources of information out there, some are bad and some are good, and out of the some that are good, some are fakes, hoaxes or someone's silly idea of a joke.

I am in my late 40's and have done much research into the subject of UFOs. I am also an electronics engineer, and part of the reason I became an electronics engineer is my interest in technology, another part is that electronics engineering is the only University course that exposes one to physics, chemistry, mathematics, software engineering, and engineering science. This includes electromagnetic theory formulated by James Clerk Maxwell, and Quantum Mechanical theory, with a little bit of Special Relativity. Another reason is because I reached the conclusion that the best way for anybody to understand how UFOs work, is to learn as much advanced mathematics and science, including biology to better understand how the body is affected by g-Forces and powerful magnetic fields or electrostatic fields.

What upsets me most about my amateur investigations in the field of UFO, is the time required to separate truth from lies. I dislike people who fake an UFO photo or video because in their attempts at jokes, or trying to get noticed by the media, they are discrediting genuine UFO witnesses such as myself, your Dad or my brother. My brother saw those five or seven lights flying very fast in a South to North direction, (because he was standing next to me) disappearing into the North horizon, but he has refused to ever talk about it.

There are people who fake photos or videos to demonstrate how easy it is to fake anything with the software image processing tools available today, but I wish they'd put a disclaimer at the end of their videos, or somewhere in the photo. Otherwise these image files get circulated around the Internet very quickly, almost going "viral" and soon the Chinese Whispers Effect takes over, and all sorts of stories end up popping out about alleged UFO encounters and alleged abductions that didn't really occur.

In the web site about Dr Robert Wood, have a read of the long pdf analysis by a former NASA employee Dr Richard C. Henry, where he talks about the Tar Baby syndrome that afflicts any serious researcher who is interested in studying UFOs.You can access this interesting pdf document by scrolling down almost to the end of the web site, and clicking on the link: UFOs and NASA.

Here is Dr. Henry's personal web site:

Dr. Henry is involved with SETI or the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence, which is a more traditionally hard core scientific study of discovering the presence of Extra Terrestrials in our local region of our Galaxy.

If you adopt a real scientific method approach, do not allow your mind to get trapped by thinking in terms of paradigms (not an easy thing to do in my experience), try not to pre-judge and ridicule people's eyewitness accounts, until you can gather enough evidence from more than one credible source taking the time in sorting out lies/fiction from the truth, make up your mind once you've examined the evidence always keeping an open mind just in case.

From my almost 30 years' experience in investigating and thinking about the UFO phenomenom, I have thought some accounts were genuine until I learned that going from one eyewitness account is unreliable. It is best to look at different accounts from different people, and look at the common elements.

I found Dr Robert Woods' name from a short promotional online video about the upcoming movie Battle: L.A., Googling his name led me to the web site I posted above. Another name mentioned in the promotional online video is Dr. Bruce Maccabee. I wondered why his name sounded familiar to me, and I remembered that a few months ago, I download a Power Point presentation, in which Dr Maccabee, a physicist, has statistically analysed the UFO eyewitness reports, and found that 33% of UFO sightings are of unknown objects; i.e. objects that cannot explained away as natural or human made objects such as aircraft not properly identified as such (except for human made UFOs, they'd be in the 33% of sightings).

Here is a web site on Dr. Bruce Maccabee's bio:

Essentially I check the credentials of UFO investigators, to sort out the serious researchers from the blind believers or the blind skeptics, in either case of these "blind" people, they have pre-judged the evidence one way or the other. Dr Robert Wood and Dr Bruce Maccabee in my opinion, have taken the middle ground, have carefully and seriously researched eyewitness accounts of UFO sightings, and used the Scientific Method properly taking care not to abuse this powerful tool to analyse the mountains of data.

Another serious researcher for whom I also have respect is Stanton T. Friedman, a nuclear physicist who took the bold step of analysing for himself the mountains of UFO eyewitness reports, and concluded that there was a significant number of cases that merited further serious and open minded scientific study. He rejected the idea that all UFO eyewitness reports were misidentifications, hoaxes or fakes. He is specifically interested in flying saucers which in his opinion present evidence that these objects are of Extra Terrestrial manufacture, and are under the intelligent control of ETs.

Here is Stanton T. Friednman's bio:

Stanton T. Friedman's web site:

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 04:30 PM
reply to post by neilrued

You have posted some very interesting information there. I enjoyed reading the entire post. I like your theory/explanation of the glow, propulsion, and of the G-force reduction. Those seem like valid points.

A few days ago I was watching "Unsolved Mysteries" and learned about the following UFO encounter:

1980 - The Cash/Landrum Piney Woods Encounter

I had never heard this story before, but it seems like of the more legitimate cases out there. What fascinated me most about the story is that the UFO produced enough radiation to cause bodily harm to the three people who were involved. Although they tried to sue the Government for damages (medical bills), it didn't pan out. One of the witnesses eventually died from cancer. If the craft caused so much dangerous radiation to escape and harm anyone standing near it, I wonder who's bright idea it was to use a radioactive propulsion system which so clearly poisoned everything around it. It's a curious case.

I do have many questions, but not nearly enough time to research all these things. I think I'm one of those people who come across interesting things and are inspired to know more, but never take it much further. This is why my kind appreciates people like you, who can sum it up in a few posts.
I take all the information with a grain of salt, and I'm cautious about where it comes from, but I love discovering new facts and stories.

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 04:32 PM
reply to post by Argyll

How would you know THEY haven't already harmed us? The world is seriously f^%$#@ up, but in truth I blame us, not THEM for that lack of genius.

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:35 PM

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Argyll
Why would you wait?.......

They didn't wait... they landed in Sumeria and 'created us in their image, in their likeness'

Once again my humble online friend, you show yourself in the most unlikely times, one that is most appreciated.

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:39 PM
reply to post by 2manyquestions

Thank you 2manyquestions, though you give me too much credit. The glow and g Force reduction and the propulsion system ideas come from other people, such as Dr Woods and Stanton T. Friedman. I got the MHD theory from Stanton T. Friedman's wikipedia web site.

I agree there is a lot out there, which is why for any given field of knowledge, it is often best to specialise in one area that interests you the most, but have some background knowledge in all the others. This is due to the tremendous amount of time that is needed to study any scientific phenomenom. For example in my own field of engineering, whenever a new product is designed such as a stereo sound system, Flat panel TV, automatic control system, cell 'phone, desk top or laptop, there are teams of tens to hundreds of people involved. Some engineers work as a team on the power supply section, another team works on designing one type integrated circuit (IC) such as the memory controller, another team may design another IC to control the CPU access to different system components within the device, and so on. One person couldn't possibly do it all, within a six month to one year time frame.

At Universities, many Masters or PhD level thesis projects have a narrow focus because they need to complete the project within a two to three year time frame.

Some theoretical studies in Astrophysics or Cosmology, may study only one natural phenomenom, but the work can take a lifetime.

The study of UFOs is no different.

The field of UFOs that interests me are genuine reports of flying saucers of ET origin, and what kind of engineering challenges exist and expansion of existing physics and materials science knowledge would be required for the human race to advance, to meet those engineering challenges.

Your post of the 1980 incident is interesting because I have heard of it myself. That led me to consider that those folks who proposed the theory that some UFOs are of human origin, may have something valid. I don't think that an advanced ET race would always manufacture UFOs that leave behind so much radioactive contamination.

In Stanton T Friedman's own website, he reviews a book about a New Horror about the Roswell Incident, and in the review Mr Friedman mentions that in the mid-1950's to 1960's, he used to work as a nuclear physicist, trying to build an aeroplane powered wih a nuclear reactor. In it he spoke of his research in trying to figure out how to shield the crew from the neutron and gamma radiation, and also how to avoid these kinds of radiation escaping from the aircraft into the surrounding environment. One design motivation for a nuclear powered aircraft, is that it could stay aloft for a long time because the nuclear fuel wouldn't need to be replaced for thousands of hours.

It seems the USAF may have taken the work of Mr Friedman and others he worked with on the design challenges, and may have built UFOs out of them.

The football field sized triangular shaped UFO would require a nuclear power plant to power the particle accelerator or synchrotron, because a synchrotron requires tremendous amounts of power to run.

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Argyll
If, as a lot of people on these boards assume, that there are "bad" aliens out there, that would maybe want to colonise/harm us, why have they have waited so long?

Could be any number of reasons. It's hard to imagine what's going on with aliens, because we can't assume they think or act or even exist in reality the same way we do. It could be anything from not being aware of our existence to not caring about our existence, or not even being capable of living in our dimension/universe. Or maybe they already have colonized us, and we just can't comprehend them well enough to notice. Does a bee understand the difference between living in a natural hive and a box? Probably not.

It might also be that if these things are moving around through time in a non-linear way, they can't risk hurting us or altering our reality too much because it might adversely affect them. They may need our consciousness in order for them to exist in our reality, so they can't go around killing us or messing with us too much.

Hard to say. I've always said that one of the problems with discussing or researching aliens is that it's very, very hard for us to think alien enough. We're stuck in our own little monkey brains, and our ability to think outside them is very limited.

edit on 18-3-2011 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:46 PM

Originally posted by HelionPrime
Just finished a six pack eh? I'm right on your heels!

It depends what they want. Nobody ever seems to listen, but I've said this a hundred times & I'll say it again.... the human race in it's present state of 'advancement' is way ahead of the other species on Earth. As the saying goes, one of these things doesn't belong etc. & the only conclusion I come to is that we have been farmed this way for use in a more advanced civilization.

Assuming I'm not completely bonkers (assuming!) then at some point we need to be 'harvested' for want of a better word. How would ET do that? Well maybe a good way to do that would be to corner us into a position where we can't wait to leave the planet because it's in such a terrible state that anywhere is better than here. Suddenly & as if by magic, they provide an escape route, all we have to do is climb aboard their safe & comfy rescue ships.
Bonkers I know, but this is a conspiracy site right?

Assuming they are here.....very logical conclusion. They better pick us up quick befor we wipe out the other candidates....

why do my posts keep ending up in the Quote???

edit on 18-3-2011 by csgt428 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 09:05 AM
My conclusion:

From what psychologists have gathered, the alien abductions are for some sort of alien human genetic program.
From what military officials have said. There has been an ongoing covert war with the Ets due to broken treaties and agreements.
From what mediums say, there is more than once race out there and some are benevolent while others have ill intentions.

I believe just as we have a United Nations and world organizations such as human rights and treaties that bind nations to abide by national security resolutions then so do the aliens.

It is difficult for us to grasp our galaxy as one big earth with each planet being a nation. But with the ease of travel these beings are displaying then it is not only likely but necessary to have peaceful co existence among the different races.

The reason they have not attacked is due to these interstellar laws that are governed by a stronger and hopefully benevolent race or union of races.

However, this policing may be limited and the law as in earth is sometimes broken. Such as taking humans and abducting them without permission. Taking eggs and sperm and mixing with theirs as such breaks a dozen laws just here in the U.S..

Whichever race is doing this is the malevolent race who without having an open invasion is practically raping the human race.
edit on 19-3-2011 by thelionofbabel because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-3-2011 by thelionofbabel because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-3-2011 by thelionofbabel because: (no reason given)

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