Japanese Emergency: Global Financial Implications and What We Should Be Talking About(Please read)

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I've studied very closely what the Zeitgeist people propose.

While it is a wonderful and idealistic prospect it is not rooted in reality. It is wishful thinking.
I wish you luck in your endeavor to convince people of the merits of this idea, but please understand
that so long as you have humans involved, there will be a breakdowns, there will be entropy.

You keep going back to that "rooted in reality" line. What do you mean by that? What reality are you talking about?

EDIT to add: I never said that we would not have breakdowns and such... What I said was that things would be made to the BEST specs, and not the cheapest/most profitable. Things will break down with vastly less frequency than they do now. What could be wrong with that?

reply to post by Amaterasu


There's a huge difference between idealism and realism. What you propose is idealism.

What i'm dealing with is the here and now. We can debate the intricacies of reality all we want, and come up with idealistic views of what reality should be. Realism tells us not to do so on a busy highway because the here and now counts, ignoring it will turn you into road pizza.

That huge difference consists only of our choices, true, for some changing might be something huge. If Amaterasu will be a road pizza for believing in a so-called idealism , let me also state that humanity on Earth will be a squeezed pie due to fake realism.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

There's a huge difference between idealism and realism. What you propose is idealism.

Not at all "idealism." Just a realization that we have the components we need - right NOW in the history we have - to do exactly what I describe, and saying, "Why NOT go for it?" What's stopping us from doing this? And the only thing that I see is that others don't know about it, or struggle to see how it would work. My job then is to try to describe it as best I can for as many people as I can.

Really, much more pragmatic than idealist. I know all we would do is make it a whole lot better for one hell of a lot of people on this planet, not eliminate every problem. But I'm thinking I could be satisfied with a whole lot better for one hell of a lot of people on this planet.

What i'm dealing with is the here and now. We can debate the intricacies of reality all we want, and come up with idealistic views of what reality should be. Realism tells us not to do so on a busy highway because the here and now counts, ignoring it will turn you into road pizza.

I did not come up with an idealistic view, my love. I came up with a solution.

reply to post by Pampamz


Uh huh.


And so what is your point exactly? That we should gamble with a system that is academic at best? Plenty of things look great on paper, it is in practice that we find their true potential. And plenty of things have failed. Every system that has tried to subjugate human nature and overall natural systems of entropy and cyclical recovery have failed and have caused untold suffering in the world.

If i were a gambling man....


Furthermore, how does any of this change the reality of Japanese potentially selling off US bond holdings? How is this "abundance paradigm solution" going to solve that problem NOW?

It isn't.

Road pizza.

Who said anything about listening or obeying a system? Every system seems to be a solution initially, but after a period of time, shorter or longer, it crumbles. People are educated to create or to join a system, I do not believe in that. It is a little late to demand solutions now in Japan, as if you were the captain on Titanic and someone asked you to avoid the iceberg with 10 meters before the impact.

reply to post by Pampamz


Well you do realize you're defending someone who's entire theoretical system is predicated on the idea that one could put an end to systemic entropy don't you?

I am not defending a person, I am sick of the intolerance against idealism only because some think they now reality better. Reality is not the same for all of us.

reply to post by Pampamz


So again, how does this solve the problem of Japan selling off treasuries to deal with their economic crisis as well as their more immediate emergency of quake/tsunami/nuclear meltdown disasters?

It doesn't. The point of this thread is that it's supposed to be a warning to anyone paying attention that bad things are coming down the pike for the global economy. I believe it will begin with a sell off of US treasuries and end with the destruction of the dollar.

That's what this thread is about. Not about the merits of a theory that violates the law of entropy.

That's idealism, and that is NOT reality no matter how you slice it.

Reality may not be the same for all of us, but starvation and economic hardship works the same for all.

Road pizza.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Pampamz

 

Uh huh.


And so what is your point exactly? That we should gamble with a system that is academic at best? Plenty of things look great on paper, it is in practice that we find their true potential. And plenty of things have failed. Every system that has tried to subjugate human nature and overall natural systems of entropy and cyclical recovery have failed and have caused untold suffering in the world.

There's the beauty of it. No gamble required. Just pass the ideas on as widely as possible. Keep doing what you're doing - but keep an eye out for a way you can contribute; a strong betterment ethic is a good thing. As more and more are aware, the more things WILL go in that direction. The fact that you even thought there was a GAMBLE involved... Well, I understand.

If i were a gambling man....

And we all are gambling Beings... Any choice we make is a gamble to one extent or another. But this is a bit off topic. [smile]

Furthermore, how does any of this change the reality of Japanese potentially selling off US bond holdings? How is this "abundance paradigm solution" going to solve that problem NOW?

That depends on how fast we can spread the ideas, I suppose. I am hoping we can spread them fast enough to reach the tipping point before we lose communications and cannot spread them at all. But as I illustrated above, if we DO reach the tipping point, things WILL go that direction.

It isn't.

Not with that attitude it isn't. [grin]

Road pizza.

Not if We can help it.

I think, think global on this issues bouncing around right now are immense and going to cause major impacts across the globe.. I for one would not like to predict the direction the economic meltdown will come from.

take the energy sector which I think will hit crisis very soon, with oil issues raging around the ME and nuclear issues raging around the globe.. the UK (before this incident) and now the EU are postponing building nuke plants (removing huge volumes of cash from a large number of order books) while the EU it seems is going to run stress tests on all it's reactors..

In the meanwhile taking that course of action will place a huge burden on the other parts of the energy sector. while if the US follows suit, shutting down the older reactors/running stress tests etc it'll place that much more strain on the energy markets driving prices up..

Now that might have been possibly bearable if we did not have a crisis in the ME to also contend with.. increasing energy prices further will put even more strain on our already fragile *cough* economies, in my mind it'll only highlight how screwed we actually are..

We appear to be being tipped back into the fire...

reply to post by Amaterasu


The crisis in Japan is immediate. The economic implications are today.

You know what you can do? Spread the IDEA that MAYBE preparing by buying food and supplies is a good idea rather than buying ridiculous theory that will help no one in the NOW. Perhaps spread the idea that those who do prepare should use their position to help others.

Anything less than that and you're blowing smoke.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Pampamz

 

Well you do realize you're defending someone who's entire theoretical system is predicated on the idea that one could put an end to systemic entropy don't you?

edit on 16-3-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

So the piece is entitled "The End of Entropy." You are making a statement that suggests that you haven't in fact read what I wrote. It is the End of Entropy as a Concern in Society. It would seem you failed to grasp that. The original Entropy was all about how we had to concern ourselves with it. My piece shows how we don't have to if we don't want to.

But I understand your confusion.

reply to post by Amaterasu


I've read and understand quite well.

This notion that you can take the worry of systemic entropy out of systems developed by human beings is ridiculous.

Or do you propose that we all become gods? Only gods can change the rules of reality in such a way.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

The crisis in Japan is immediate. The economic implications are today.

You know what you can do? Spread the IDEA that MAYBE preparing by buying food and supplies is a good idea rather than buying ridiculous theory that will help no one in the NOW. Perhaps spread the idea that those who do prepare should use their position to help others.

Anything less than that and you're blowing smoke.

edit on 16-3-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Oh, if it's all about survival, in a radioactive wilderness, that's cool. Somehow I thought the thread was about finding a solution to the problems in the system of money on this planet.

Just curious... What do you recommend for those living on $38 a month cash? To prepare for this survival in the radioactive wilderness? Would love to hear your thoughts on that.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Here this may help:
en.wikipedia.org...

Economic entropy – a semi-quantitative measure of the irrevocable dissipation and degradation of natural materials and available energy with respect to economic activity.[60][66]
Entropology – the study or discussion of entropy or the name sometimes given to thermodynamics without differential equations.[67][68]
Psychological entropy - the distribution of energy in the psyche, which tends to seek equilibrium or balance among all the structures of the psyche.[69]
Social entropy – a measure of social system structure, having both theoretical and statistical interpretations, i.e. society (macrosocietal variables) measured in terms of how the individual functions in society (microsocietal variables); also related to social equilibrium.[70]

reply to post by Amaterasu


Is that what you're reading into this thread?

Or did you read the title and move on?


From the OP:

What does this mean to you? If this happens(and I PERSONALLY FEEL that there is a near certainty of this), it means that the US will have drive themselves much deeper into debt in order to satisfy the debt. After PIMCO's recent dump of all US bonds the market is a little jittery about the value of US debt, this move by Japan could signal a giant bond dump around the world forcing our currency, our government, and our overall markets into a tailspin. It would be wholesale financial destruction. I believe this WILL happen, and it will happen soon. The Japanese are going to have many jittery customers world wide who may fear radiologically contaminated products, stagnant or entirely non-existent industrial growth, and massive debt-loads on top of having to deal with this incredibly MASSIVE crisis. The Japanese economy has been in crisis for some time now and their markets have been shakily supporting massive debt loads since the 1990s. This can no longer continue. Doing so would certainly spell the destruction of all Japanese wealth. What will follow will be a move based entirely on self-preservation, the US be damned. If we were in their position we'd do the same thing.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I've read and understand quite well.

This notion that you can take the worry of systemic entropy out of systems developed by human beings is ridiculous.

Or do you propose that we all become gods? Only gods can change the rules of reality in such a way.

edit on 16-3-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Let's just forget the social entropy thing, really it was more of a literary mechanism and can be dispensed with in the view of the solution. The real question is whether money represents energy expended. What say you on that score? Because I can show you that it is. There's more I want to say, but my eyes droop.

(I'm going to bed after this post but will be back tomorrow.)

reply to post by Amaterasu


I'm tired too.


I look forward to the debate. Good night.


On Topic:

U.S. stocks drop amid Fed meeting and Japan's disaster

The Federal Reserve maintained its ultra-loose monetary policy on Tuesday, saying the economic recovery is on a firmer footing, and overall conditions in the labor market appear to be improving gradually.

The Fed also said that it would continue its 600-billion-dollar government bond-buying program as scheduled, and keep interest rates at very low levels for an extended period.

The remarks relieved investors' concern but the possible outcome of Japan disaster was still hovering around investors' mind.

After an explosion and a fire dramatically escalated Japan's disaster, dangerous levels of radiation began leaking from a broken nuclear plant Tuesday in Japan, investors worried that the nuclear crisis will have a negative impact on Japan's economy, the world's third largest. Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average fell more than 1,000 points, or 10.55 percent on Tuesday.

And the Fed continues to pump the market causing commodity price ramping. The fact is, the Japanese have nothing to lose if they do dump US bonds. The US will devalue the dollar on it's own as there are no signs that the Feds loose monetary policy is changing.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by jackflap

 

Those bonds are promissory notes of payment at a later date. Much of that has rolled over a few times. Those debts are separate from voluntary US aid. It really comes down to one thing, CASH. A positive cash flow has to come from somewhere OTHER THAN their tapped out people. Especially now since much of that is in limbo due to these disasters.

In that case it's each country for themselves and the ships should be somewhere else best serving the citizens of that paid for them - especially if things get worse.