It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Danbones
On the other hand you can't have a privileged class like say teachers, with a terrible success rate, where kids are proven to do better at home, expecting pensions and outlandish benefits while the people that are "paying" now are starving, and having to teach their kids at home anyway (statistically, if you want them to be able to read, you better...)...
Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers. How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages -- as pensions when they retire -- rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.
Originally posted by inkyminds
Originally posted by Danbones
On the other hand you can't have a privileged class like say teachers, with a terrible success rate, where kids are proven to do better at home, expecting pensions and outlandish benefits while the people that are "paying" now are starving, and having to teach their kids at home anyway (statistically, if you want them to be able to read, you better...)...
Let's clear a few things up. When you sign a contract for a job, and it includes a pension, you and your employer both pay into it. To imply that they are asking for more than they deserve is asinine. The STATE mis-spent the money that was meant to go into pensions. IF the state didn't think they could afford to pay the pensions, they shouldnt have offered them.
Blaming the employees for expecting to receive a pension they paid into themselves and agreed upon is CRAZY.
Let's say you paid into Social Security your whole life. Then, come retirement, you decide you want to collect and the federal government says, sorry, we spent it all on other crap.
You'd find that "fair"???????????????
This distorts the issue at hand because, Johnston writes at Tax.com, it leads to a certain implicit impression:
"Somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not.
Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers. How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages -- as pensions when they retire -- rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.
www.huffingtonpost.com...edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Eurisko2012
Ah, you stumbled right into the truth.
"If the state didn't think they could afford to pay the pensions, they shouldn't have offered them."
Bingo!
-- Seek the Truth --
The corrupt politicians who signed off on the "sweetheart union deals" couldn't care less about the
ability to pay for the pensions.
Originally posted by mysterioustranger
I belong to 3 separate unions. AFSCME, AF of M and PPAN. So, without salary and benefits, Im screwed, and stand to lose all. Just have to let the cards fall I suppose..but I am wondering. All union brothers and sisters here? Check in. Lets see what we got here at ATS.
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Vitchilo
These protesters want money. This is not about rights, privileges, nor anything else. They want money. People are being taxed because they want money. Therefore, let them go. They're a cancer.
Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by inkyminds
They got rid of collective bargaining in the great state of Indiana.
Look what happened. -- success -- !
Indiana is in great shape right now.
The cuts are going to happen. Get used to it.
Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by Alxandro
If you don't make the kind of salary unions fight for, I guess you have to attack them, is that it? Instead of attacking people who are making a livable wage, maybe you should be attacking corporations that have sent their manufacturing facilities over seas for cheap labor and high profits.
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by inkyminds
Yes. because it's being taken from the people for workers whom honestly never deserved that much.
The government before, with different people, spent on useless crap. Unfortunately, they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. They should have known that the money train would not last. Now it's over.
To sound like a total dick, sucks to be them. And that's just that. They bought into an unsustainable government. Now it;s collapsing, and they got screwed over. No different than Enron really. Blame the last guy, not the guy trying to fix it.
Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by inkyminds
. But to say they deserve that which was based off a lie is simply foul hearty.
The money they were promised never existed. They are the victims of a fraud. They should sue, not protest.
Originally posted by Gorman91
They should sue, not protest.
Originally posted by inkyminds
All Right! The race for the bottom continues! Let's strip people of access of the pensions they paid into, because the states mismanaged the funds! And pay teacher's less! It's the BEST way to attract TOP NOTCH educators! Maybe all these jobs that will suposedly be created by the tax incentives to out-of-state companies can replace some of the jobs that the governor just killed.