Wisconsin Assembly Passes Anti-Union Bill

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by amongus
Unions are bull snip. Nobody should be guaranteed job security and regular raises just because they belong to a pack of wolves.

Yes, I generalized, but unions are whats wrong with this country.

Wow. I had no idea. UNIONS are what's 'wrong with this country'. Not state legislatures with mis-allocated pension funds for pet projects, not Democrats and Republicans who authorize President's to wage endless wars, not a corrupt former MMS allowing BP to spew millions of gallons of oil all over the gulf coast.... NOPE, it's UNIONS, groups of people organizing to give themselves and equal playing feild on the job market whcih is heavily slanted towards employers..

Yep, America was SO much better becofre unions ruined everything.

Why, I remember when if a shoeless child wanted to work in a factory 18 hours a day, the Big Bad Gubbermint didn't step in and say no! Those were the days!

Socialism/Communism is always ushered in under the guise of do-goodism. If not, no one would ever implement any of their plans. In them good ol days, Socialists hated the communists only because they used violence and imprisonment to implement their plans, aka gulags. Ever hear of Alexander Solzhenitsyn? Socialism is just the bridge to Totalitarian communism. Or call it Globalism if it makes you feel better.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

What jobs were just killed? There will be layoffs if they cannot control the budget, then we will really see stuff hit the fan.

You don't think teachers. correction officers and firefighters losing many of the aspects of their compensation that makes their job's desirable wont make fewer people want to apply for those jobs in that state? It's a DIRECT correlation.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus



Socialism/Communism is always ushered in under the guise of do-goodism. If not, no one would ever implement any of their plans. In them good ol days, Socialists hated the communists only because they used violence and imprisonment to implement their plans, aka gulags. Ever hear of Alexander Solzhenitsyn? Socialism is just the bridge to Totalitarian communism. Or call it Globalism if it makes you feel better.

Disregarding all the obvious factual errors in your post (which i'd gladly address if they were even close to on topic), how does that prove your statement that unions are to blame for all our societies ills?

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

What jobs were just killed? There will be layoffs if they cannot control the budget, then we will really see stuff hit the fan.

You don't think teachers. correction officers and firefighters losing many of the aspects of their compensation that makes their job's desirable wont make fewer people want to apply for those jobs in that state? It's a DIRECT correlation.

Oh pullease! Everything the WH occupier has been about has been to increase govt jobs. Did you make this much noise over the loss of jobs in the private sector due entirely to the Occupier's interventionism in private industry, his insistence on Green Jobs, attack on oil industry by moratorium on offshore oil drilling?

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus



Socialism/Communism is always ushered in under the guise of do-goodism. If not, no one would ever implement any of their plans. In them good ol days, Socialists hated the communists only because they used violence and imprisonment to implement their plans, aka gulags. Ever hear of Alexander Solzhenitsyn? Socialism is just the bridge to Totalitarian communism. Or call it Globalism if it makes you feel better.

Disregarding all the obvious factual errors in your post (which i'd gladly address if they were even close to on topic), how does that prove your statement that unions are to blame for all our societies ills?

edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)

What factual errors? Im inclined to think you never heard of Solzhenitsyn. Read his accounts of the gulags before you embarrass yourself.
Ok I will let someone elses words put you in place since you do not take mine seriously. That often works for people who have not done adequate research.
www.hyperhistory.net...
"However, even though Marx's beliefs are now considered to be socialistic rather than communist, many people consider Marx the father of communism. Communism was developed from the writings of Marx and Vladimir Lenin, a Russian revolutionary leader during the early 1900's. Communism and socialism were very similar until a group of socialists called democratic socialists began to reject the principles of communism. The democratic socialists did not agree with the way the communists used violence and revolution to gain control. Communists began to aim more at government power, while socialists concentrated on fair distribution of products and equality for all classes. Communists thought that all means of production or any material necessary for life should be controlled by the government while socialists left some control in the private sector."

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus



Socialism/Communism is always ushered in under the guise of do-goodism. If not, no one would ever implement any of their plans. In them good ol days, Socialists hated the communists only because they used violence and imprisonment to implement their plans, aka gulags. Ever hear of Alexander Solzhenitsyn? Socialism is just the bridge to Totalitarian communism. Or call it Globalism if it makes you feel better.

Disregarding all the obvious factual errors in your post (which i'd gladly address if they were even close to on topic), how does that prove your statement that unions are to blame for all our societies ills?

edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)

Oh yes, and it is your statement which is entirely false. I have not said Unions were the blame for all our societies ills. You just interpreted it that way. You need to do more homework and stop misconstruing people's words. While we are on this subject of misprepresenting people's statements, Jonathon Chait has had to redo his statement on his blog about the phone call with Walker due to the fact that the transcription was misconstrued.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


Oh yes, and it is your statement which is entirely false. I have not said Unions were the blame for all our societies ills. You just interpreted it that way. You need to do more homework and stop misconstruing people's words.

You re correct, it was your buddy 'amongus' who said unions are 'what is wrong with this country'

Originally posted by amongus
Unions are bull snip. Nobody should be guaranteed job security and regular raises just because they belong to a pack of wolves.

Yes, I generalized, but unions are whats wrong with this country.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


No, what I am saying is you attempting to conflate the specific unions being discussed in this thread with the worst examples of TOTALITARIAN regimes is wildly inaccurate, disingenuous, and most importantly, off-topic.


You and several others i this thread have made the claim SEVERAL times now that unions have bankrupted Wisconsin, but none of you have provided even a shred of evidence to support that claim.

I suspect your off-topic ramblings about "Socialism" are likely to deflect from this lack of evidence.You have been asked SEVERAL direct questions in this thread that you have quite obviously avoided. Why is that?

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus



Socialism/Communism is always ushered in under the guise of do-goodism. If not, no one would ever implement any of their plans. In them good ol days, Socialists hated the communists only because they used violence and imprisonment to implement their plans, aka gulags. Ever hear of Alexander Solzhenitsyn? Socialism is just the bridge to Totalitarian communism. Or call it Globalism if it makes you feel better.

Disregarding all the obvious factual errors in your post (which i'd gladly address if they were even close to on topic), how does that prove your statement that unions are to blame for all our societies ills?

edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)

Ok the error is in the use of the word "only" in my post. But, otherwise, even the communists say on their websites that Socialism is a bridge to accomplish communism. Do I need to do that homework for you also? Ok now for Solzhenitsyn, a Nobel Prize Winner I might add, exposed the Russian gulags for all the world to see, and gave an account of his own imprisonment.
brothersjudd.com...
"The Gulag represents Solzhenitsyn's attempt to document nearly every phase of the Bolshevik's use of the police apparatus and prison camps for the suppression of dissent, or suspected dissent. Using a wide range of actual examples--many of them personal, others taken from fellow prisoners he might while he was detained--he takes the reader step-by-step through the process of arrest, interrogation, conviction (always conviction), transportation, and imprisonment"
"Besides offering a comprehensive Russian account of Soviet terror, Mr. Solzhenitsyn does something of extraordinary importance here, the importance of which most in the West did not fully comprehend until after the collapse of the Soviet Union, if then : he drapes the crimes of Communism around the neck of not just Stalin but of Lenin too, and traces the roots of the terror to the very philosophy of Communism itself. It had been a convenient myth for party members in the Soviet Union and fellow travelers here in that the Russian Revolution had been a noble cause and an initial success that was gradually corrupted by the personal evil of just one man, Stalin. "

Originally posted by inkyminds
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

No, what I am saying is you attempting to conflate the specific unions being discussed in this thread with the worst examples of TOTALITARIAN regimes is wildly inaccurate, disingenuous, and most importantly, off-topic.


You and several others i this thread have made the claim SEVERAL times now that unions have bankrupted Wisconsin, but none of you have provided even a shred of evidence to support that claim.

I suspect your off-topic ramblings about "Socialism" are likely to deflect from this lack of evidence.You have been asked SEVERAL direct questions in this thread that you have quite obviously avoided. Why is that?

edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)

You keep sayingits off topic. You and your clicque of friends, calling me names and blackballing. I've done the homework and you have not. Not to mention that I did not expressly say that the Unions bankrupted Wisconsin. But it is a fact that they have a budget crisis which will end in layoffs we are told, if they do not do something. Liberals here have likewise circulated the myth that Walker created the budgetary deficit after he was elected. You and your friends need to stop circulating these myths and outright lies.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Well, it IS off-topic. A history of totalitarian regimes with the implication that these unions in Wisconsin will lead to the same sort of mass-murders is wildly off-topic and akin to Red Baiting of the McCarthy era.


So you still think it is 'fair' to deny workers access to pensions they paid into 100% because politicians mismanaged the funds?

Why?

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


Oh yes, and it is your statement which is entirely false. I have not said Unions were the blame for all our societies ills. You just interpreted it that way. You need to do more homework and stop misconstruing people's words.

You re correct, it was your buddy 'amongus' who said unions are 'what is wrong with this country'

Originally posted by amongus
Unions are bull snip. Nobody should be guaranteed job security and regular raises just because they belong to a pack of wolves.

Yes, I generalized, but unions are whats wrong with this country.

He is NOT my buddy and I never met him before in my life. But you and others here do a lot of ganging up on people who disagree with your position. And please let's address your insistence that you know better than me and are prepared to debunk my ideas.
Let's hear it already.

Originally posted by inkyminds
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Well, it IS off-topic. A history of totalitarian regimes with the implication that these unions in Wisconsin will lead to the same sort of mass-murders is wildly off-topic and akin to Red Baiting of the McCarthy era.


So you still think it is 'fair' to deny workers access to pensions they paid into 100% because politicians mismanaged the funds?

Why?





Do you always have this habit of taking people's words and misconstruing them? Ok who did the mismanagement of funds? Was it Walker? His predecessors?
Red-baiting? Well, until you can prove that the current WH Occupier did not appoing a self-proclaimed communist by the name of Van Jones, your judgement is way off target.
Deny workers their pensions? Heres the truth about that little myth if you dare to take off the blinders:

www.nationalreview.com...

edit on
"Unfortunately, his “smoking gun” is not true. Not even close.

The Wisconsin Retirement System and deferred compensation are two completely separate things. Full-time state- and local-government employees are participants in the Wisconsin Retirement System, which uses taxpayer money to fund both the state (around 5 percent of salary) and employee (another 5 percent) contributions to their pensions.

On top of that, if they choose, state employees can participate in the deferred-comp plan, where they decide how much of their money to set aside, pre-tax, and a portion is matched by the state. That is in addition to their traditional pension contribution.

All this can be found in Chapter 40 of the Wisconsin State Statutes, which clearly demarcates each program in separate subchapters. Further, the Wisconsin Retirement System is explained in detail in this paper from the Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau.

This is what happens when national writers become instant experts in state-benefit issues — expect a correction post soon. Sadly, the toothpaste might already be out of the tube."


26-2-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

reply to post by antonia


Well said, and there's a lot more we can add to your post on why students are failing...(I bite my lip).

Third eye, I've asked you several direct questions in relation to the actual topic.

Do you care to respond to them and have a forward moving discussion?

Originally posted by inkyminds
Third eye, I've asked you several direct questions in relation to the actual topic.

Do you care to respond to them and have a forward moving discussion?

You have done little more than put words in my mouth which I did not say, and lump my ideas and words in with other people here. You have misconstrued just about everything I have said, and you have made generalizations which are not true. The only specific thing you asked me was about the pension fund and I have answered that now. And yes, Socialism/communism is generally at the core of what is going on in the country right now. The current Occupier is well versed in Marxist philosophy and is heavily implementing policies according to his Marxist/Fabian Socialist worldview. Also my posts are not off topic because I have shown the connection between Union protests in foreign countries and the protests here, as well as the whole Socialist outlook of public Unions in general, the history of communist use of tools to promote their agenda, their involvement in the Wisconsin protests and also protests worldwide which they brag about in their websites. Good luck debating this with other people.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
And yes, Socialism/communism is generally at the core of what is going on in the country right now. The current Occupier is well versed in Marxist philosophy and is heavily implementing policies according to his Marxist/Fabian Socialist worldview.

I see. Well, then can you explain to me how "Communism" is directly related to this specific issue in Wisconson? Specifically.

Personally, I think you have it wrong, and CORPORATISM is what this issue is about, and the direction our current President as well as most politicians are leading us, where American workers have as many rights as a 'chinese coolie.

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
And yes, Socialism/communism is generally at the core of what is going on in the country right now. The current Occupier is well versed in Marxist philosophy and is heavily implementing policies according to his Marxist/Fabian Socialist worldview.

I see. Well, then can you explain to me how "Communism" is directly related to this specific issue in Wisconson? Specifically.

Personally, I think you have it wrong, and CORPORATISM is what this issue is about, and the direction our current President as well as most politicians are leading us, where American workers have as many rights as a 'chinese coolie.

You see I already posted my response before you asked it. And no, it is communists/Marxists whose agenda it always was and always will be to break Capitalism, and therefore they constantly attack corporatism. However, they still use Capital and the corporate world to achieve their ends, as always to them, "the ends justifies the means". I am certainly not a fan of corporate monopolism, but I see through the disguise against corporations.

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
And yes, Socialism/communism is generally at the core of what is going on in the country right now. The current Occupier is well versed in Marxist philosophy and is heavily implementing policies according to his Marxist/Fabian Socialist worldview.

I see. Well, then can you explain to me how "Communism" is directly related to this specific issue in Wisconson? Specifically.

Personally, I think you have it wrong, and CORPORATISM is what this issue is about, and the direction our current President as well as most politicians are leading us, where American workers have as many rights as a 'chinese coolie.

I see now that MoveOn.org is involved in the Wi protest, and we know that George Soros, International Socialist is a financier of MoveOn as well as other Left Hegelian organizations.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


You see I already posted my response before you asked it. And no, it is communists/Marxists whose agenda it always was and always will be to break Capitalism, and therefore they constantly attack corporatism. However, they still use Capital and the corporate world to achieve their ends, as always to them, "the ends justifies the means". I am certainly not a fan of corporate monopolism, but I see through the disguise against corporations.

I see. So even though the Unions LOST and Obama didn't step in, you still think this is a communist plot to destroy "capitalism"?

Also, the United States does NOT have a 'capitalist' system. Not in the slightest. It is a corporatist state and has been for centuries.