Wisconsin Assembly Passes Anti-Union Bill

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posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by drink2forget

Originally posted by inkyminds
reply to post by drink2forget
 


You STILL havent explained how it's the EMPLOYEES fault that the EMPLOYERS mismanaged pension finds.






We are going to have to agree to disagree. Mostly because i've completely lost interest in disecting this further. I stated my opinion on Unions and the adverse effects of them. I thought I was explaining it correctly but I guess i'm now. I'm so lost on this one but i'm glad you like my anecdotes. That is at least a win.
edit on 07/23/2007 by drink2forget because: (no reason given)


Well thanks for taking the time to stop by and give your opinion.

Perhaps next time you will have the time to substantiate it.
edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by inkyminds
 


I thought I did their chief...but maybe not up to par with what you were expecting. I'll keep try to keep my opinions to myself on this public forum.



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by drink2forget
 


No, I readily encourage your opinions. What I've asked for was substantiation, so as to have a more informed self.

You see, when someone says "Unions are destroying America", I tend to want some sort of specifics behind it, but I see that you don't have the time for such extravagances.



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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my lifereply to post by inkyminds
 


Never said it was "destroying America." If you re-read some of my posts, I was clearly stating how unions have effected my lifeand many other airline non-union airline employees. I'm fairly certain I didn't have some master plan or bombshell that was to blow minds on ATS. I apologize for any confusion. If I had the answers or we all had the answers then this forum would be awfully boring...



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by drink2forget
. If I had the answers or we all had the answers then this forum would be awfully boring...

You find constructive, informed dialogue boring?

noted.

----------------------

On a related note, I once knew a guy from Wisconsin. He was a fat jerk. Fat Jerky Wisconsonians are a drain on our society, and we should get rid of them, they have run their course.
edit on 26-2-2011 by inkyminds because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by inkyminds
 


Note away their stud. I find peoples opinions on pressing matters very interesting. Having to substantiate every opinion to pacify members like yourself could be quite a doozy. Moving along from this one, it's a lose-lose for me.



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by drink2forget
 



Well, you've done an excellent job flooding a once informative thread with unsubstantiated opinions you 'dont have time' to prove.

So good job!



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by inkyminds
reply to post by drink2forget
 



Well, you've done an excellent job flooding a once informative thread with unsubstantiated opinions you 'dont have time' to prove.

So good job!


Do opinions need to be substantiated? Jesus if it offends you that much (and I made a strong point, I didn't post several paragraphs of just nonsense) report it to a mod chief. I'm very passionate about my issues with Unions, and I see how they've effected my life and I thought I explained that. I find it a form of organized extortion, but again it wasn't up to par with your standards of a reply. Win some, lose some. Sorry to let you down.
edit on 07/23/2007 by drink2forget because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
Public unions are perversions of their private counterparts.

They should be banned. They ruin it for real unions.


So because you are a public worker, you should have your rights to join a private Union stripped, right? And yet here I am being told that the concerns of tea partiers and conservatives are real and impartial. Yes, I was referring to public unions as private as well, as that is what they essentially are, independent unions formed by public workers, they are of difference from unions over private jobs. This demonization of unions is an example of the "do as I say not as I do" attitude folks from the right carry with em'.

In anycase this law being passed does not prevent public workers from participating in Unions. People have choices, and if their employers are not willing to budge, simply walk off. Your fundamental right to petition has not gone anywhere.
edit on 27-2-2011 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by Alxandro
 


Congratulations, you're one of the lucky ones. Not everyone has a job that pays them a livable wage. I don't know your situation, but you're taking for granted that many people are in the same boat. There's a reason why there is such a divide between the working poor and the rich. The gap is only widening. Sure, I agree their are "some" union workers who take advantage of union protection and become lazy, and that should be changed. But this current push to break unions altogether is another snake plan by the republicans to go after workers rights. Maybe they should spend more time defending the people who elected them rather than themselves and corporations. These same law makers you agree with, vote themselves raises, they have the best health care plan available, they're paid 4 times the average worker with added perks, and they've robbed from pension money that state workers paid into. Yet as a taxpaying citizens we have no control of stepping in and cutting their pay, or giving them a weeks notice and booting them out of a job for mismanaging our money! If you think voting is our way of taking control, you're fooling yourself. Swaying votes by both parties by the use of corporate donations, bending facts and capturing the minds of the uninformed causes these corporate puppets to slide into office. You're just painting union people with a broad brush.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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What we have to do is focus on the facts that are well documented throughout history. Why was America once the incredible place that we learned about in school? Two words republic and capitalism. There was never any need for the institution of the public sector and definitely not entitlements. America was once such a profound nation because you could be anything you wanted to be. But it was always understood that you have to work hard to earn. You are not merely entitled to everything for just simply being an american. But you are entitled to the pursuit of happiness. You can try to achieve everything that you want. Sadly, these are concepts that the Democrats seem to have forgotten. But it is not your fault. The increasing Democratic ideals in our government have made you dependent on our government and this public sector that never should have been.

Lets think back to the Great Depression and FDR. The very creation of this dependence. Everyone views FDR as a great president and he has been glorified in the school system which is run by these unions and democratic ideals. What they fail to tell you is that his institution of all of these public programs only left the nation in dire straits. It was not until he resorted to true capitalist ideas that the nation escaped poverty. What did he do? He limited production of necessary goods to be exported for awhile so that demand would increase and then the price could be increased. This created competition and stimulated the economy which is something that public unions and entitlements could never do. Unfortunately it does not seem that the democratic party has learned from history.

This recession started in 2001 which is the same year that Bush was elected. Economic trends do not just fall off the deep end overnight, stocks do. And so Bush is blamed for something that was never his fault. Granted he was not the greatest president ever. But if we as Americans could only look back a couple of years before that we would find where the problem began. Under complete Democratic control the government enforced regulation and growth of the public sector. This drove out private businesses which truly make money. The public sector and government for that matter merely circulate through taxes the revenue that is created by the private sector. This is what Obama calls the distribution of wealth.

Now onto Obama and the current democratic party. They are becoming increasingly radical which is making this country a very scary place to live in. But I do not by any account say that these ideals are that of Barack Obama. He is indebted to the democratic party which is in turn indebted to the public unions for their votes and money. Can you not see the inevitable corruption that is taking place here? And what is this generally leading towards? What are their goals? Why does Obama continue to do nothing about the economy? A cut of 100 billion over ten years is just 10 billion a year on a federal budget that is roughly >2 trillion a year. That should be a slap in the face to all Americans! This is making your lives hell and making you drift steadily into poverty as these economic stimulations they impose continually leads to inflation and while these fat democratic politicians and public union officials sit and collect your money! Seriously America?! STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES NOT THESE CORRUPT OFFICIALS THAT HAVE MADE YOU THEIR PUPPIES! Create motivation in your own lives and work to achieve these goals! Remove them from power.

Furthermore, why would democratic politicians all the sudden be so comfortable with the current state of things? Maybe because their plans are finally unfolding? Well this is a scary thought and I will tell you why:

Does anyone remember learning about the French Revolution or the Soviet Union? Do the names Robespierre Napolean and Stalin ring a bell to anyone? Well here is some background info. Witnessing the American Revolution, the French people who were repressed by their government overthrew it and instituted a democracy. The problem is America did not have a Democracy! In a Democracy it is far to easy for the development of mob control by radical groups. These mobs influence the masses to only believe their ideas by ELIMINATING the opposition. In France the Guillotine was invented to execute those who opposed the radical movement. France became hell on earth as people ratted out their neighbors and random people on the street because the movment instilled utter confusion and paranoia about who would be executed next. No one knew whose word would bring them to the sacrificial alter. Eventually even Robespierre who was the voice behind the movement was executed for not being radical enough. Now these circumstances led to an unraveling of society and paved the way for a dictator such as Napolean to come to power. And he did. And this hell spread to the whole of Europe. And so this is how the path follows democracy --> increasing radical movement --> Social Democracy --> increasing radical movement --> An almost communism --> mob rule --> Dictatorship. And all the while the people believe that they had a democracy. Keep in mind this happened over 15 short years...

As for the Soviet Union, the radical movement was imposed under marxist ideals by Lenin. Lenin wasn't evil though he truly believed in equality for everybody and so he was too trusting and so were the whole of the people who followed him. Increasing radical movement much like that in France takes place and Lenin must go into hiding. After Lenin a few things happen and Stalin takes power in the background. Stalin massacres more of his own people than Hitler did but it isn't viewed as Genocide because it is not a specific group. About 20 million. These people were first only aristocrats then he just seemed to terminate any group that he felt could be a threat including the people living in extreme poverty.

How does all of this relate to now you may ask?
We have a democratic party that is instilling the belief that the republicans are fascists and trying to repress them. While not only completely untrue, NO ONE CLASS in America is oppressed, we all have the ability to work hard and prosper although at some times futures seem grim. But ALL of the people ARE repressed by the substantially growing government which is the direct result of democratic ideals. They have done this by teaching the children and constantly telling us that we live in a Democracy while developing their power in the shadows. Its called word association and it has been used as warfare against the general public for years. Its psychological manipulation democracy-->democratic. People feel more comfortable with things that they think they know especially other people they feel like they know. The Dems have also for a long while been increasing the welfare budget and basically paying women already on welfare to have babies the and thus creating a mass of people utterly dependent on them who without a doubt will vote for them. Other methods that they use are idol manipulation through Hollywood. The constant scare tactics that republicans are fascists and trying to steal the people's rights. Hmm unfortunately it has been the republicans who have been trying to protect those rights while the democrats vote them away with every new law. TAKE THE PATRIOT ACT FOR INSTANCE WHICH WAS PUT IN AS A TEMPORARY ARTICLE DURING THE BUSH ADMIN. THE REPUBLICANS VOTED LAST WEEK TO REMOVE IT BUT THE DEMOCRATS WILL NOT LET IT HAPPEN! The liberal media constantly attacks every single republican in existence, and whenever a conservative is on a live one, they are immediately attacked and treated like the devil. And still they push for political correctness whenever they do anything sketchy which is pretty much everyday. This kind of unprofessionalism would never be attributed to FOX. People will say Glenn Beck but all he does is tell people to go research themselves. Idiots... Does everyone seriously not see any of these patterns? Do the Dems truly not see the corruption in this party they are married to? Do you ever ask why the democratic party would constantly tell you that we are going to spend are way out of debt which is obviously nonsensical? Because they are trying to inflate the value of the dollar to the point where the people all make the same amount of money including the people that are on welfare and do not make a living. this will take all of the power out of the hands of the people and create an entire nation of people who are dependent on their democratic government. MOST IMPORTANTLY: this will keep the people who are currently in power, along with their families, in power forever



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by palg1
 


You are right on the money. Im not that much for the Unions...more for equality and pay standards with some benefits. But I think its a changing world, and we're about to see it happen in our lifetimes. And I too see the governments point...and agree with them that they cant go on like it is now. Nevermind how and why not...and who is or isnt to blame....
Thanks!



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Fangula
 


Myself as well....Local #1583. We've had it good for a long while...but its not looking good anymore. Gone are those days (and understandably so-they couldnt last forever) that we counted on before. Im lucky Ive got my 401k...and its not backed by my employer. It mine and rolled over. But the younger guys are gonna get screwed.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Also, I know this may be a little off topic, but Stalin, hitler, Robespierre, napoleon, Nero, and Caesar are all of of the people that have been dubbed possible Antichrists. And no I am not a very religious person but I do believe that the bible is a very good source for teaching people about life and society.

So we know from history the times in which these people have came into power. These are times in which their respective nations have become extremely radical. So what happens now when the entire world is becoming extremely radical? What path are we creating here? We are giving the propective true antichrist a means for world domination. Lack of morality in all of society is also breeding not only a perfect mindset for him but a perfect mindset for the plethora of people who will follow him. Maybe it's nothing and that would be great if we could all live in a world where everyone was equal. This is truly what everyone wants. But what if it doesn't happen like this? We have to look at the other possibilities that may be there. And this certainly is one. If anyone truly watched Glenn beck you would know that this is what he means by what he says. He does not want the world to be this way. Just like no one else does. But we need to be enlightened. We need to question the powers in the world with doubt until they can prove us wrong. They have not yet. So do your research yourself and analyze what you have learned and compare it to what's happened time and time again throughout history. Then tell me if you think that the people who have been saying these things are crazy about worrying about it? What's at stake? Everything we hold dear. The true American dream. Be smart America.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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Stand up and fight to protect your rights before we are too drained to stand up and fight at all.

The banksters and the money powers have been trying to head this off by causing this big fake economic breakdown.

It's time to make it obvious we never did need them,tell em' not to let the door hit em' in the ass on their way out.....



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by WeRpeons

We can get that for less than minimum wage. That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan-- that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET'S SEE....

That's $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute -- there's something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher's salary (nation-wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!


Using your logic, I make approx. the same annual wage I deal with 20 to 30 infant like adults every day and educate them continuously on their responsibilities and in the rules of my trade. If I were to base my wage the way you state (per client served) then I should be quintupling my salary. If we did that my sections annual salary budget would be blown in a month. You cannot base the salary of a single service (the teaching to a classroom) on the amount of attendees to that class. I've heard your argument before, it is only ever used by the teacher's union and it does not make sense.(hic)

edit on 3-3-2011 by palg1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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Oh Yeah!!! It’s about time, many of our best and brightest were seeking careers in public service. What a waste right! What’s the real difference in a teacher with a 4 year teaching degree vs. one who has 10+ years of unrelated degrees? The later was making 100k+ and that’s just unacceptable! Maybe now all those highly educated individuals will stop wasting their talent in the public service arena!

NOBAMA!! Fox Rules!!! Walker 2012!!! WooHoo!!





 
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