Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

reply to post by racasan


Jesus = jewish zombie? lol

I was dead as a doornail and the doctors (and prayer) brought me back to life. Does that make me a zombie?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by racasan

 

Jesus = jewish zombie? lol

I was dead as a doornail and the doctors (and prayer) brought me back to life. Does that make me a zombie?

edit on 21-2-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

Only if you want to suck the working brains out of people and have them fall for lies that religions petal for dominance, gain and empire.

Other than that not a zombie.

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth


i disagree that religion sucks the brains out of people. i think the human tendency to do things the easy way, results in lack of knowledge. let someone else tell us what it says. that kinda thing. which is what is happening with zeitgeist. people are letting the catholic church tell them what the bible says, even then based on traditions not in the bible at all. lol

religion (philosophy) has inspired all manner of higher level learning.

reply to post by undo


The most likely explanation for christianity is that some sun cult, formed somewhere in the roman empire was joined to the Jewish religion and bolted together with that dopy original sin story

Maybe the Roman Empire (the N.W.O of that time) decided to create an all encompassing state religion and then impose it on everybody, maybe they where trying to achieve some kind of social cohesion because the empire was crumbling

It’s certain the Roman Empire morphed in to the Roman Catholic Church

Catholic means all-embracing and that’s what the roman catholic church did they included what other religions they could, built churches on older religious sites and made local gods in to saints
And any older religions Roman Catholic Church couldn’t force into its self it brutally repressed and literally demonised

After some time the popes became as bad as any roman emperor and some people protested against this and formed an off shot religion and after some more time these Protestants even convinced themselves that they never had anything to do with the Catholic Church

reply to post by racasan


i think the original sin was procreation,
so don't expect me to call it dopey

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by adjensen

 

I think that fact that Jesus alleged birth date coincides with a change of astronomical age

But no one in the Church (certainly not in the early Church) thought that he was born on 25 December, so that's not indicative of anything.

Christmas is a festival that celebrates the coming of the Messiah, it's not supposed to be his birthday party. It occurs when it does for a pretty obvious reason -- when you tell people to stop doing something, they're a lot more likely to do so if you give them something else to do.

One of the major struggles with the early Gentile church was getting them to give up some of the practices that were common, but not particularly revered. Remember, this was at a time when the majority of the Church was Jewish and took great offense at some of the practices of the former pagans, like eating meat sacrificed to idols (not really nefarious -- it was common to say a prayer or put a little meat on a grate in deference to the gods, and if you had a family of mixed faith, are you going to yell at Mom for cutting off a piece of steak for Zeus?) Though Paul makes a point of saying that it's really not all that important, he also makes a point of saying "don't do it, because it causes problems for believers who do think it's important."

So you've got these events that people are told they can no longer go to, in spite of their friends and family bugging them about it. What to do? Well, let's just have our own event, and you can go to that instead. Thus, the "replacement" of a pagan festival associated with the Solstice with a Christian one. Very sensible, to be honest.

i suggest finding the decemeber 25th birthday of jesus in the bible, cause i'm pretty sure it would be
suggested by the text, if it was true. i'd be more inclined to think he was the son of cleopatra (a real historical figure) who said she was isis, than to believe he was born on december 25th and a solar deity.

best way to find out if he was born on that date is to do a comparative analysis of the jewish calendar and his life. if you can use the biblical text to prove december 25th, then you got my attention, but if you can't (which i'm guessing you can't), then perhaps thinking the catholic church got the december 25th date from the text (which is where the story of jesus is) is wrong afterall.

Originally posted by racasan
Maybe the Roman Empire (the N.W.O of that time) decided to create an all encompassing state religion and then impose it on everybody, maybe they where trying to achieve some kind of social cohesion because the empire was crumbling

Actually, clear historical evidence indicates that the Roman Empire vacillated between tolerating and persecuting the Christian church for the first three hundreds years or so. Remember the whole "throwing Christians to the lions" bit? They certainly weren't behind the whole thing.

Oh, and the Romans already had an "all encompassing state religion". Not going along with it was what the Christians were being thrown to the lions for. The Jews had a special dispensation that allowed them to not worship the Emperor or state gods, but the Christians were granted no such favour.

Catholic means all-embracing and that’s what the roman catholic church did they included what other religions they could, built churches on older religious sites and made local gods in to saints

Actually, "Catholic" means universal, as in the orthodox church. Though I am a Methodist, I believe in a catholic church, though I'm not really onboard with the Roman Catholic church (or the Eastern Orthodox Catholic church -- you forget about those guys?)

After some time the popes became as bad as any roman emperor and some people protested against this and formed an off shot religion and after some more time these Protestants even convinced themselves that they never had anything to do with the Catholic Church

You kind of drift off there at the end, but the Protestant Reformation wasn't really against the Pope at the time, or even Papal decrees. It was a protest against some of the actions of the Catholic church, absolutely, but if you go back and look at Martin Luther, as well as the Reformed theology which shortly followed him, it's really a radically different theological view that was emerging, not simply objections with certain practices.

reply to post by GoldenKnight

Those quotes seem to be mostly from sycophants and many of them aren't as scholarly as you, and Acharya S, would like to make-believe it seem.

...ellipsis often means 'I left some shizzle out that I don't want you to see.' For example: One of the blurbs you listed and edited to suit your twistations (Yeah, I said 'twistations" because sometimes you just have to make up a new word when dealing with some folk ) is from a review at Amazon dotcom heheh.

Here's the whole blurb from Jonathan Burnham with the part right before your ellipsis bolded by me:

First, some background on me so you know where I'm coming from. I am an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) since 1994. I have pastored 3 Presbyterian Churches in 3 different states: Missouri, Tennessee and Texas. I am currently pastor of a Presbyterian Church in Houston, Texas. I have a B.A, M.A, M.Div., and D.Min. degrees from Presbyterian related universities and seminaries. My seminary studies included required aptitude in the Hebrew and Greek languages.

While I do not agree with every conclusion or suggestion the author makes in this book, I have found her scholarship, research, knowledge of the original languages, and creative linkages to be breathtaking and highly stimulating. Her chapter in this book on the Alexandrian origins of Christianity is worth the price of the book alone. Yet that is only a small portion of what she covers in this massive yet easily readable tome.

After reading this book and pondering the ideas therein, I must say my faith in Christ is stronger than it was before and more nuanced and vibrant. For that gift, as well as the knowledge so freely shared, I am grateful to the author. I highly recommend this book for all Christian ministers and laypersons. It may challenge your faith in a good way and you may come out on the other end with a deeper and more supple faith and a better understanding of the issues and delights of what it means to be a follower of Jesus. That has certainly been my personal experience.

In a word, this is one of the most interesting books I have read in the past 10 years. Make it a point to get your hands on a copy as soon as you can. It is more than worth every penny you pay for it. If you read it with an open mind and heart, you will not be disappointed, of that I am sure.
www.amazon.com...

Don't get me wrong; I certainly wouldn't vouch for him as a scholar even after reading his real, and now in proper context, Amazon book review. Please note also his expertise as evidenced by his statement, "My seminary studies included required aptitude in the Hebrew and Greek languages." "Required aptitude" in Hebrew and Greek languages if'n you didn't catch that.

Quit calling folk here dishonest and go look in the mirror. The cold hard truth is that Acharya has not only proven herself to be deceptive & unworthy of the term 'scholar,' but she is NOT taken seriously by the majority of her peers.

reply to post by GoldenKnight

"Acharya S deserves to be recognized as a leading researcher and an expert in the field of comparative mythology, on a par with James Frazer or Robert Graves—indeed, superior to those forerunners in the frankness of her conclusions and the volume of her evidence."
—Barbara Walker, The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets and Man Made God

The following is from wiki about yet another 'expert' on your list of Acharya S supporters as was quoted above:

Barbara G. Walker (born July 2, 1930, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) is a U.S. author and feminist. She is an influential knitting expert and the author of several classic encyclopedic knitting references. Other topics she has written about are religion, cultural anthropology, spirituality, and mythology from the viewpoint of Pre-Indo-European neolithic matriarchies...

Feminism
In The Skeptical Feminist: Discovering the Virgin, Mother, and Crone, she writes about her belief that there is no deity. However, she believes that people, and women in particular, can use the image of the Goddess in their day-to-day lives.

She often uses the imagery of the Mother Goddess to discuss neolithic matriarchies. Her book Woman's Rituals: A Sourcebook is an attempt to show how she puts her "meditation techniques" into practice, and is meant as a guide for other women to do the same thing.
en.wikipedia.org...

My ellipsis skipped over her uncontested expertise on "Knitting," I'm not trying to conceal anything.

Edit to add: Ugh...I found more of your sources and blurbs to be book reviews from Amazon dotcom. I can list them if need be, but it's getting tiring.

reply to post by kallisti36

If you base your dispute on history instead of faith, why not prove just one myth of the bible? Prove that Joseph and Mary really had to travel to Bethlehem for a census because of their ancestors 1000 years earlier. No Roman Emperor would require any such silliness. An obvious lie to fabricate a myth that would correlate with scripture.

A Day in the Life of a Zeitgeist Car Salesman…

Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Welcome to the Zeitgeist Car Centre sir!
Mr Consumer: Hi there, my old car just clonked out on me. Now I am looking for a new car!
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Well, we can certainly accommodate you here my good man! What sort of car are you looking for?
Mr Consumer: Well, I am interested in purchasing a 4WD actually. For you see, me and my family spend a lot of time travelling the countryside, and need something that can handle the ‘rugged terrain’.
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: A 4WD!!! My good man, how dare you blaspheme in the Zeitgeist Car Centre! We only sell Toyota Prius’ here. If you want a car from here, you are going to have to adjust your lifestyle accordingly! The Prius works! It does what is required of it. It will get you from A to B; (most of the time) – inaudible. I deride your ‘rugged terrain’!
Mr Consumer: Ah, I see. Sorry for insulting your sensibilities, how selfish of me.
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: That is OK, this is a voluntary car centre, you are free to leave whenever you like.
Mr Consumer: Fair enough, but why did those men and women dressed entirely in white place those 100kg locks on the gates after I walked in?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Fear not my good man! Those locks are there for your own safety! They are designed to protect you from the evil corporations that are determined to pick at your poor, feeble, defenceless brain. You are safe in this place though, you can trust everyone in this place.
Mr Consumer: Great, it’s good to know there are people in this world whose first priority is to pursue my happiness; out there, everyone is just so selfish!
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: No problem, we have overcome all our individual problems here you see, so now we are in a superior position to overcome yours for you, and the rest of the world’s for that matter!
Mr Consumer: Great, so getting back to the car, does the Prius come in red?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: No, they only come in dark grey; all cars are equal in the Zeitgeist Car Centre.
Mr Consumer: Really, well choice is overrated isn’t it – I might end up making a decision I regret, and then where would we all be? So what does the Prius run on – unleaded, premium, batteries, vegetable oil?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Ha Ha Ha! You foolish relic of a man! The Prius doesn’t run on any of those things!
Mr Consumer: Well what does it run on then?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: It runs on your own sense of self-satisfaction about driving the Prius, my good man!
Mr Consumer: I see. I have to commute a fair distance to get to work, so I spend a lot of time on the freeways. How does the Prius handle at 100km/h?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Oh no, I must tell you sir, all these cars are required to drive at precisely 50 km/h.
Mr Consumer: Really? But what if I think I need to drive a little faster? I mean, driving a little faster isn’t all peaches and cream you know; it comes with more risk, stress and less free time. Indeed, I have had a small accident or two driving at this speed, all while I watched my friends and neighbours enjoy the safety of driving at only 50km/h.
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Then you are a selfish, ego-driven megalomaniac who does not deserve the benefit of this fine car! Didn’t you hear me? All cars are equal in this place! If one car is capable of driving faster, then that car should be re-worked to make it drive at the same speed as the rest of the cars! It is only fair to the weakest car that we remould the strongest car in its image!
Mr Consumer: Ok, Ok. Yes you’re right; I was being selfish wasn’t I. But what if I want to drive a little slower than 50 km/h sometimes?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Ah, you see my good man; you won’t want to drive any slower! You will want to drive at precisely 50km/h; at all times, and under all circumstances.
Mr Consumer: I don’t get it, what will be my incentive for driving at precisely 50km/h?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Incentive? What is that then? Einstein didn’t need any ‘incentive’ to construct his theory of relativity! Therefore, it makes perfect sense that you, Mr Joe Six-Pack, would need no incentive to drive at precisely 50 km/h; at all times, and under all circumstances!
Mr Consumer: Ah, I see. Ok then, I’m sold! Can I take it for a test drive?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Most certainly not sir! Why you would need to do that, we are telling you how well it will work for you! That is all you need to know!
Mr Consumer: Well alright then, can I at least start the car to make sure the engine is OK? Where are the keys to the ignition?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: This fine car has neither keys nor an ignition. You just think to yourself, START! and low behold, the car will turn itself on!
Mr Consumer: Wow! That is amazing! How did you design a car which could do that?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: It was easy! We just extracted the global abundance from the stratified elements of a singular disposition and strategically analysed centrally planned access super codes then organically made scarcity obsolete with stratospheric 28th century universal super technology!
Mr Consumer: Wow, that is a real mouthful (of adjectives)! I’ll tell you what, my friend is an automotive engineer, would you mind giving me the formula’s and equations you used to build this magical car; he would be very interested to see them. Of course, he will not be able to use your ingenious invention to his advantage, as they have these ridiculous things called anti-trust laws out there.
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Ah, again, you’re reading into things too much! I just told you how we did it in simple, concise terms! No one needs to know ridiculous details like that; that is just your capitalist disposition getting the better of you!
Mr Consumer: Ok then, I’ll take your word for it. This car looks different to most cars though, what is it made of?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: This car is made entirely of gold and platinum sir! It is built to last for 1,000,000 years!
Mr Consumer: Really! I don’t think I will be able to afford such a fine car! How much does it cost?
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: Cost!!! Don’t you realise where you are?!?!?! Nothing costs anything here!
Mr Consumer: C’mon, that is pretty hard to believe. It must have taken a lot of time and energy to build a car like this. I mean, a lot of resources; natural, human and otherwise, must been involved in making such a fine car.
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: There was, but those once finite resources have magically become abundant and what’s more, in this place, machines and people toil day and night to provide you with the best car feasibly possible, all for no reward other than your happiness!
Mr Consumer: All right, I’ll take it!!!!

20 years later….

Mr Consumer: Excuse me my good man, but this car you ‘gave’ me projected itself off a steep cliff and onto some very sharp rocks! What’s more, after it had done this, it really took on a life of its own! It grew arms and legs and pinned me down for 20 odd years, during which I had to live off some moss that had accumulated on the very sharp rocks over the previous 100-150 years. I demand a refund!
Mr Zeitgeist Car Salesman: I am sorry sir, but the Zeitgeist Car Centre went out of business some 19.99 years ago. It turned out our business model was, how shall I put it? - ‘imperfect.’ Yes - that’s the word I was looking for. But don’t worry, someday in the near future, when the computers are more sophisticated and you ‘people’ aren’t all so stupid and selfish, this fine idea of ours will work! For you see, we are always here with you my good man, lurking in the shadows, waiting to pounce when you are at your weakest! What a good friend we are to you - weak, defenceless man! How did you get by without our ‘help’ for so very, very long? But you must excuse me now! I have to leapfrog over these 200 million corpses and find my way back home to collect my thoughts and start re-organizing society for you again!

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by undo

 

The most likely explanation for christianity is that some sun cult, formed somewhere in the roman empire was joined to the Jewish religion and bolted together with that dopy original sin story

Maybe the Roman Empire (the N.W.O of that time) decided to create an all encompassing state religion and then impose it on everybody, maybe they where trying to achieve some kind of social cohesion because the empire was crumbling

It’s certain the Roman Empire morphed in to the Roman Catholic Church

Catholic means all-embracing and that’s what the roman catholic church did they included what other religions they could, built churches on older religious sites and made local gods in to saints
And any older religions Roman Catholic Church couldn’t force into its self it brutally repressed and literally demonised

After some time the popes became as bad as any roman emperor and some people protested against this and formed an off shot religion and after some more time these Protestants even convinced themselves that they never had anything to do with the Catholic Church

Thank you, I have evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about. The gospels were written in Greek and Hebrew and show inclusive knowledge of Jerusalem and Jewish customs that Gentile Romans would have been totally ignorant of. Not to mention that Rome persecuted and brutally murdered Christians until the fourth century.

The main body of the Church and believers were located on the East of the meditterranean until Christianity was made the state religion of Rome. You also seem to be totally ignorant of Eastern Christianity and the schism of that from the Roman Church when the Patriarch of Rome claimed to be the Vicar of God on earth, thereby making him autocrat of the Church. The Orthodox were never involved in the Crusades or the Inquisition and have numerous doctrines that differ from Rome, such as the concept of hell. Then there are the autonomous Oriental Orthodox churches, Ethiopian Orthodox, Coptic, and Syrian Churches that have been separate from the influence of Rome and Greece since their inception.

This is why I am an Orthodox Christian (more or less; I shy away from Iconography), because you are right about one thing, Western Christianity has been poisoned by Roman Catholic doctrine as much as the Protestants try to escape it.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


you said, prove just one myth of the BIBLE.
i love this kinda thing.

geologists from oxford university discovered the black sea flood was the flood of the epic of gilgamesh, the atrahasis epic, and the bible. and that it wasn't global. *which, btw, is also indicated in the biblical texts. the word "All" and any other word that lead people to believe all the animals were taken on the ark, and all the earth was under water, was not in the original hebrew, and i can prove that too.

i can prove chapter 12 of revelation is about the precession of the equinoxes (one layer of the data is about astronomy, one layer is about politics, one about religion. the astronomy layer is to indicate time frame, what better clock for large spans of time than the precession of the equinoxes?)

i can prove that nimrod was a real fella, who was also known as narmer (pharaoh of egypt, who founded the egyptian dynasties at abydos), and enmerkar of akkad. (see the akkadian text, enmerkar and the lord of arrata). after death, he was called osiris. his wife was isis, who was the akkadian inana, biblical astoreth,

i can prove the israelites really were in egypt, and were known as the habiru (hebrew)/ hyskos shepherd kings. they were stone masons/temple builders. they became pharaohs for a brief time, with their capital being at Avaris, grew unpopular, were enslaved, and eventually "chased" out of egypt by Moses' adopted brother, Pharaoh Ahmose.

(so far, i'm listing scientists, astronomy, and historical figures known to have existed. )

jesus refers to himself in revelation as the Alpha and the Omega, which is the rod and staff or crook and flail, symbols of rulership of Egypt, held by the pharaohs. He said this because he was most likely the last pharaoh of Egypt, born to the egyptian cleopatra and julius caesar. this would've made him the emperor of the known roman world, the pharaoh of egypt, and due to his lineage from king david, he would've been the true leader of israel in at least 2 different ways. but because julius was murdered, he had to be shuffled away and his identity hidden, because he was next in line for the throne of the roman empire and the throne of egypt (and egypt was about to be invaded by the same rome that had killed julius) etc etc. there's videos on this topic if you're interested.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Thread title: Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

This thread was raised by a butthurt religion fan. That's the issue here, to easily refute his "refutation"

Not to discuss whether black holes are mystical or linked to the bible.

But Im not the OP...and I am pointing out that zeitgeist stretched many ideas that have no real foundation....and Im not religious....so why do you suppose I am feeling the need to point out lies in zeitgeist?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Edit...wrong thread...ooops

Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. "


Zeitgeist has too many poison pills and misdirection to be trusted. Typical New Ager Propaganda

Originally posted by euro944t
Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. "


Zeitgeist has too many poison pills and misdirection to be trusted. Typical New Ager Propaganda

This can be a serious discussion on the facts or non facts zeitgeist and it does not help to try to have such a conversation if we are gong to 'warn' people with qoutes from the bible like 'dont you dare deny him'....or else.

Come one people.

We can point out lack of evidence and also evidence, for some of the things claimed by zeitgeist. But to 'warn' those not following your own 'faith' is really unneeded.This is why a thread like this would work better if a non religious person started it.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by racasan

 

Jesus = jewish zombie? lol

I was dead as a doornail and the doctors (and prayer) brought me back to life. Does that make me a zombie?

edit on 21-2-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

There are SO many smart ass comments I could make but I'll try not to so I don't upset moderators...

According to the scriptures -- Jesus was REALLY DEAD. Not, like, his heartbeat stopped for a minute and someone zapped it back to beating -- but stinking, rotting dead and put in a cave. Technically, a Zombie is the dead walking again. The only difference from a zombie and jesus, is better PR and he's after your heart, not your brain.

And, as far as what passes for "modern" medicine -- they are a few technologies away from being slightly more reliable than a good bowl of chicken soup. Medicine, really isn't as reliable as it pretends to be, and a doctor cannot always be sure why someone makes it and another does it. Prayer MIGHT have helped you come back to life -- or it MIGHT have been some of the medical help you got.

Regardless, I think that subscribing Miracles to God, is nice for the survivors -- but it's also hubris. Does the prayer of a starving Ethiopian mean less to the All Mighty than someone in a hospital in the USA with many more resources at his disposal? Does the person who "miraculously" survived the plane crash have more merit in the Universe than the other 244 passengers who did not?

Prayer may be good for you. But I don't think it tips the scales in the scheme of things.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by racasan

 

Jesus = jewish zombie? lol

I was dead as a doornail and the doctors (and prayer) brought me back to life. Does that make me a zombie?

edit on 21-2-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

There are SO many smart ass comments I could make but I'll try not to so I don't upset moderators...

According to the scriptures -- Jesus was REALLY DEAD. Not, like, his heartbeat stopped for a minute and someone zapped it back to beating -- but stinking, rotting dead and put in a cave. Technically, a Zombie is the dead walking again. The only difference from a zombie and jesus, is better PR and he's after your heart, not your brain.

And, as far as what passes for "modern" medicine -- they are a few technologies away from being slightly more reliable than a good bowl of chicken soup. Medicine, really isn't as reliable as it pretends to be, and a doctor cannot always be sure why someone makes it and another does it. Prayer MIGHT have helped you come back to life -- or it MIGHT have been some of the medical help you got.

Regardless, I think that subscribing Miracles to God, is nice for the survivors -- but it's also hubris. Does the prayer of a starving Ethiopian mean less to the All Mighty than someone in a hospital in the USA with many more resources at his disposal? Does the person who "miraculously" survived the plane crash have more merit in the Universe than the other 244 passengers who did not?

Prayer may be good for you. But I don't think it tips the scales in the scheme of things.