Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

reply to post by Blaine91555
If you have the same beliefs as the OP, then I can safely say that you don't know what truth is. You condemn those who might think that there may be some truth to the Zeitgeist films, yet your whole belief system is a myth. Yes, I called your religion a myth because that's what it is...a myth. Unless you have proof otherwise don't bother with a rebuttal because I don't take kindly to being preached at.

reply to post by kallisti36


I liked the first Zeitgeist movie, aside from any inaccuracy issue, it's a great talking point and eye-opener for a lot of people.

That having said, I don't think you can call it too badly on the dis-info point. The basics are there, about sun-worshipping cults etc... different religions are always going to be dressed up differently and have cosmetic differences between crucifixion and death and rebirth.

I didn't like Addendum, was all a bit hippy-fied for me. I haven't seen the third one yet.

I am a fan of the Zeitgeist series. All of the information in the movies may not be totally correct but still very thought provoking. I think that provoking the masses to start to think and "wake up" is the point. The part of the series that focuses on the federal reserve to me is the most intriguing.

Starting a new "world" as in the Venus project is entertaining and also sad since the only way that we as a people can start over and change our corrosive ways is to wipe the slate clean. That is scary since we would have to loose everything before we can start over and change for a possible better life.

Money is still power and after the Zeitgeist series I can't decide if i want to figure out how to become one of those with everything or one of those who will help change.

reply to post by tinfoilman

Could you please provide a few sources on that? From my understanding the word messiah is from a Hebrew word that has its origins in Judaism. It's a Hebrew word for a religious redeemer of Judaism/Islam who has been anointed by oil or by God to redeem the religion.

Actually, I think you will find that Messiah is derived from the EGYPTIAN word MESSEH which means crocodile. (Messiah being the annointed one) The pharaohs having been annointed with crocodile fat. Like most of the OT plagiarised from Egyptian belief systems.

There are some who believe King Tut's daddy, Akhenaten, was Moses. He was certainly the progenitor (get it...genesis) of the one god belief system....and the time line fits. Maybe even Akhenaten had hebrew blood since the hebrews certainly were NOT the slaves of Egypt as depicted in the OT....the Nubians were. The hebrews married into the royal line.

Amen sorry Amun...sorry RA.

Etymology is where it's at.

Originally posted by Kman7100
Hi, I'm an atheist, this is my first post on ATS, so please tear it to shreads

With that out of the way, I just wanted to make one point. Joseph Campbell suggested in his research that there is a purpose to religion and myths, and that the decline of these stories is actually causing people to become even more heartless.

I disagree.

Personally, I think once people realize the majesty of the universe itself, and the fact that we are are starstuff, that there will be a revolution of consciousness. Until this happens, however, we won't ever see true peace. Actually, even if it does happen, that doesn't mean there will be peace, but I can dream.

As far as Atheist philosophers go, I probably have the most respect for Carl Sagan, because he moves away from Atheism's nihilist roots with his optimistic "stardust" philosophy.

I believe that we will never have peace unless everyone embraces a pure objective morality such as what is defined in "The Sermon on the Mount". If my Christian brethren hadn't been ignorant of the commands of the New Covenant, there would have been no Crusades, no gay-bashing, no lynching, or any of the other terrible crimes "Christians" have committed. However, I think as long as there is human error, there will be no peace and no total acceptance of objective morality. This is why Christians look forward to the second coming.

Still, we remain off topic.

Welcome to ATS by the way.

reply to post by Blaine91555


The irony of your post about people "hating" on religion while religion has been doing the same to other religions and scientists for centuries is amusing. Most people don't hate on religions, they just don't understand how people could believe such nonsense.

"I'm going to create man and woman with original sin, then I'm going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself. To save you from the sin I originally condemned you to."

reply to post by kallisti36


We humans and our consciousness are incredible in our own right. We ARE creators. We use transference to deny responsibility for our own action/inaction. It was God's plan we say....not our fault, not our doing.

We are stardust...from possibly our own star, the sun. Were the ancients so wrong to worship the sun? Some believe our soul is contained in our SOLAR plexes. I like that thought. It's all belief tho' isn't it....not fact.

Originally posted by budaruskie
Jesus may have been real, but there is no proof, period. That is why proof in Christianity has been suplanted by faith. Live and let live my friend, believe what you want to believe.

Tell that to the apostles and martyrs of the Church. They seemed to be under the impression that Jesus was more real than you or I, because they knew Him, and saw Him with their eyes. It is a matter of historical fact that Jesus the Christ humbled Himself to show us the Way, which is to follow Him, and to suffer and be crucified for us. Jesus is the Visible Image of the Invisible God, the Word Made Flesh, and the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Our faith in Him is not a faith of historical veracity, but that is part of it, as even people who saw Him didn't recognize Him, and they didn't have faith either: Jesus is the Incarnate God and His life, death and ressurection are an everlasting picture for us of His Power, Grace, Mercy, Love, and Glory!

Originally posted by mrphilosophias

Originally posted by budaruskie
Jesus may have been real, but there is no proof, period. That is why proof in Christianity has been suplanted by faith. Live and let live my friend, believe what you want to believe.

Tell that to the apostles and martyrs of the Church. They seemed to be under the impression that Jesus was more real than you or I, because they knew Him, and saw Him with their eyes. It is a matter of historical fact that Jesus the Christ humbled Himself to show us the Way, which is to follow Him, and to suffer and be crucified for us. Jesus is the Visible Image of the Invisible God, the Word Made Flesh, and the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Our faith in Him is not a faith of historical veracity, but that is part of it, as even people who saw Him didn't recognize Him, and they didn't have faith either: Jesus is the Incarnate God and His life, death and ressurection are an everlasting picture for us of His Power, Grace, Mercy, Love, and Glory!

PROVE IT!

LMAO!

The original poster rants about Zeitgeist but, his best evidence against it are videos by a Christian extremist who calls himself Keith "Truth" and goes around name-calling everyone who proves him wrong a "theosophist" when he clearly doesn't even know what it is. Keith and his Xian extremist buddies like Chris White and many others would prefer that we all go back to the DARK AGES. Keith has no qualifications, formal training or credentials of any kind whatsoever. Apparently, neither does kallisti36 when he claims "I couldn't possibly do a better job than this guy."

Keith and his videos have been addressed here

Keith "Truth" is a useful idiot
www.freethoughtnation.com...

Many other criticisms have also been addressed
www.freethoughtnation.com...

If you want to watch videos that actually provide and discuss the facts and evidence that actually exists then watch these videos but, the anti-Zeitgeist p1 and anti-Acharya S fanatics must be prepared to have their asses handed to them in a very major way - www.freethoughtnation.com...

The fact is that Zeitgeist part 1 on religion is far more accurate than many are aware or willing to admit. The problem I see is that people aren't understanding what is actually being said and are jumping to pre-conceived conclusions &/or knee-jerk reactions. The info is backed up with highly respected and credentialed scholarship whether you like it or not - as demonstrated in the New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook.

A major disconnect rests in the fact that so many anti-Zeitgeisters have no other language skills and are unable to read the primary sources in their original languages. Well, Acharya S specializes in several languages and especially the ancient biblical languages. So, when I hear people whine about the virgin births or Dec 25th birthdate and they use Wikipedia as their source they are unaware that Wiki cannot be trusted on many controversial issues due to the fact that Wiki is often written and edited by loads of Christians who will do anything to shore up their faith at all costs.

I have seen biblical scholars and professional historians thoroughly embarrass themselves in their anti-Zeitgeist rants as well. Here is just one perfect example but, there are many.

Dr. Chris Forbes on Zeitgeist part 1
www.freethoughtnation.com...

Or here's atheist, Tim Callahan who embarrasses himself too

Skeptic Magazine Critique of Zeitgeist Part 1
www.freethoughtnation.com...

For further reading:

The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)
www.stellarhousepublishing.com...

Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence
freethoughtnation.com...

Astrotheology of the Ancients
stellarhousepublishing.com...

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ
www.stellarhousepublishing.com...

The Gospels: A 2nd Century Composition
stellarhousepublishing.com...

"I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock"

"I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations."

- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar - review of Acharya's book "Christ in Egypt"
www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com...

"Your scholarship is relentless! The research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration."

- Dr. Kenneth L. Feder, Professor of Archaeology
www.freethoughtnation.com...

ZEITGEIST, Part 1 (Religion) Debunked? Acharya Responds
www.youtube.com...



The Mythicist Position - video (read the links in the info box)
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

If you have the same beliefs as the OP, then I can safely say that you don't know what truth is. You condemn those who might think that there may be some truth to the Zeitgeist films, yet your whole belief system is a myth.

Regardless of its basis, and whether it is factual or not (the whole "Jesus being God" part,) there are facts associated with Christianity, as there are with other religions. Your movie makes claims which are not factual. For example:

Zeitgeist - Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki

Reality - Krishna was the eighth child of Vasudeva and Devaki

Now, how was Krishna born of a virgin if he was the eighth child of a couple? Seven other virgin births?

Zeitgeist - Horus was crucified, buried for 3 days, and thus, resurrected

Reality - In the myth, Horus never even died, he became one with Ra

How was he crucified, and then resurrected, if he never died?

You are certainly welcome to say that you don't believe Christianity, but there is nothing in logic or reason that says someone who does is incapable of discerning between fact and fiction.

God is consciousness. The universes' and ours. I'd love for us all to start singing from the same hymn sheet....bu that might get boring.

Vive la difference

Originally posted by mrphilosophias

Originally posted by budaruskie
Jesus may have been real, but there is no proof, period. That is why proof in Christianity has been suplanted by faith. Live and let live my friend, believe what you want to believe.

Tell that to the apostles and martyrs of the Church. They seemed to be under the impression that Jesus was more real than you or I, because they knew Him, and saw Him with their eyes. It is a matter of historical fact that Jesus the Christ humbled Himself to show us the Way, which is to follow Him, and to suffer and be crucified for us. Jesus is the Visible Image of the Invisible God, the Word Made Flesh, and the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Our faith in Him is not a faith of historical veracity, but that is part of it, as even people who saw Him didn't recognize Him, and they didn't have faith either: Jesus is the Incarnate God and His life, death and ressurection are an everlasting picture for us of His Power, Grace, Mercy, Love, and Glory!

Yeah tell that to all those innocent men, women & children who did not believe in Jesus and were persecuted as a result. You'd think the Son of God and God himself actually would have foreseen the hate and evil that would be committed in their names for the centuries to follow??? hmmmmm....

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

If you have the same beliefs as the OP, then I can safely say that you don't know what truth is. You condemn those who might think that there may be some truth to the Zeitgeist films, yet your whole belief system is a myth. Yes, I called your religion a myth because that's what it is...a myth. Unless you have proof otherwise don't bother with a rebuttal because I don't take kindly to being preached at.

You need to read my post more carefully perhaps? My comments were directed at those who blindly swallow information that is clearly not true due their hatred. It's also about how hate blinds people to truth. It is not intended as an argument about Religion, nor do my beliefs have any relevancy to that.

Once hatred of anything takes over a persons minds, truth literally no longer matters. In this case Zeitgeist presents factual falsehoods and those who blindly follow it can not be enticed to believe otherwise, even when presented with real facts. Referring of course to the historical accuracy, or in this case inaccuracy of the beliefs presented in Zeitgeist.

Me, I would be deeply offended and drop a thing like this like a hot potato if I discovered it was full of things that could be demonstrated to be untrue. The reason I refer to Zeitgeist as a Religion in fact is because it's believers are acting in blind faith, which is obvious when they won't even discuss the accuracy of the fabricated history presented. For these people it could be more accurately described as a Cult I suppose.

The true motives of Zeitgeist are obvious. At first it may have been thought to be true due to getting information from other dishonest sources, but the fact it continues after many of the facts have been proven false, defines Zeitgeist. Standing behind falsehoods by blinding yourself to facts screams to me that the root of this is pure hate.

Thank you by the way for going off topic and attacking me without even knowing what my Faith is. It proves my whole point. Hate is now in control of the logic side of your brain and you can't even have a conversation about the historical inaccuracies contained in Zeitgeist. Instead of proving the facts presented in Zeitgeist to be true, you choose to attack me without even knowing me. I'd say that you, just like a fish on the line, have been lured in with a fake minnow (anything that support your hate) and now your so hooked, you can't have a real conversation.

If it's any consolation, the OP is also acting on raw emotion, but the falsehoods pointed out in the video's he posted are well sourced unlike Zeitgeist, when it comes to history.

Attacking the object of your hate, apparently anyone who is religious in any way, will not alter the fact that Zeitgeist is full of historical inaccuracies. You can't attack that as by now you know it's true, so you lash out and attack individuals for posting their thoughts.

Originally posted by Kman7100
Hi, I'm an atheist, this is my first post on ATS, so please tear it to shreads

With that out of the way, I just wanted to make one point. Joseph Campbell suggested in his research that there is a purpose to religion and myths, and that the decline of these stories is actually causing people to become even more heartless.

I disagree.

Personally, I think once people realize the majesty of the universe itself, and the fact that we are are starstuff, that there will be a revolution of consciousness. Until this happens, however, we won't ever see true peace. Actually, even if it does happen, that doesn't mean there will be peace, but I can dream.

you understand that something so extraordinarily complex, intricate, efficacious, efficient, inter-connected all comes from 'starstuff', and some how you are still an atheist? Have you been reading that liar Richard Dawkins? check out my response to scientific nihilism: The God Solution.

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

If you have the same beliefs as the OP, then I can safely say that you don't know what truth is. You condemn those who might think that there may be some truth to the Zeitgeist films, yet your whole belief system is a myth. Yes, I called your religion a myth because that's what it is...a myth. Unless you have proof otherwise don't bother with a rebuttal because I don't take kindly to being preached at.

sure what would you like to talk about?

reply to post by kcfusion


I'm trained in hypnosis....in order to be hypnotised you MUST have 'faith' in the hypnotist. 'Do you have faith my child?' 'Yes whoever.' 'Then stand and walk' 'Oh - you can't. You mustn't have had enough faith. Not my fault.'

reply to post by GoldenKnight


There is absolutely nothing new in those videos. They are rehashes of everything that Acharya S, Freke and Gandy, etc have already claimed. These arguments are from within the insular Zeitgeist movement and try and assert the credibility of their sources, by sourcing other people in the Zeitgeist movement. The guy who made the video in my OP goes to NEUTRAL EXPERTS. Acharya S, Freke and Gandy, and Zeitgeist use forgeries and outright lies to push their philosophy and debase other people's religions.

Why don't you fly hustlers who believe in zeitgeist go ahead and collect the numerous online prizes available for bringing an original source text to verify one of its many patently false claims.

Presenting acharya s as an authority on anything, while mocking those who made videos debunking zeitgest by studying original text is hilarious. She cribbed a book from the 1800s, while doing no research on her own, and not surprisingly it is all wrong.

yeah sun = son... not in hebrew, or latin, or egyptian.

a solar manifestation of "christ dying on the cross." Sure, the romans pioneered crucifixion, yet the christians copied it from an earlier text..

the beat goes on.. most gods mentioned weren't born of virgins, didn't have 12 disciples, etc, etc, etc - sorry, acting butthurt doesn't change that. I've seen several prominent atheists back away from this stuff like it was garbage, which pretty much reinforces (the fact that it is largely lies) the fact that it is in fact garbage.

I don't need to be a 4 star chef to tell my food tastes like sh*t... lol

reply to post by dickyavalon



This thread is not actually about disproving Zeitgeist as the title misleadingly claims. It's about attempting to prove christianity. The claims of christianity are more ludicrous than anything zeitgeist could ever come up with. Remember that in the west Pauline christianity prevails....and Paul/Saul never met or even heard Jesus speak. In fact, those who did, his actual apostles, and his brother, James, had NOTHING to do with Paul - as Paul's claims became more and more ridiculous.