Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?

reply to post by GeminiSky


No, you don't have to provide any data. Although doing so will make your uphill battle a tad bit easier, but you are more than welcome to do things the hard way.

By the same token you shouldn't become upset when you attempt to present your casual observation as an undeniable fact and then are called on it.

Look at it this way, reality is a strictly black or white issue. (No pun intended.) It's our perceptions of reality that are the shades of gray. In other words, our perceptions are not necessarily an accurate portrayal of the reality of any given situation.

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

No, you don't have to provide any data. Although doing so will make your uphill battle a tad bit easier, but you are more than welcome to do things the hard way.

Again filled with assumptions, I dont feel im fighting any battle, especially an uphill one. None of this is hard for me, therefore nothing is being done the "hard way" This is simply your own assumption.

By the same token you shouldn't become upset when you attempt to present your casual observation as an undeniable fact and then are called on it.

Again an assumption, I stated that my observations were factual to ME. You haven't "called" me on anything, you simply provided dated statistical charts, which again I do not acknowledge as being the least bit accurate and representative of whats happening in the real world. I am not upset, therefore this is another assumption.

Look at it this way, reality is a strictly black or white issue. (No pun intended.) It's our perceptions of reality that are the shades of gray. In other words, our perceptions are not necessarily an accurate portrayal of the reality of any given situation.

This is exactly what I think of your "perceptions" on the reality of my OP. Please apply this to your own responses and assumptions.

Regards,
GeminiSky

Your question to me...is not racist. I'm Puerto Rican and I was explaining this to my son the other day! My reason for my conversation with him was to explain why the Government and Gov jobs are such an easy target for Republicans. Not on the surface, but underneath. In the skin of people like John Boehner, crawling around. And totally agree with you. I don't know why. My guess is that if it's in an urban area...I don't even know where I was going with that. I just can't plain explain it! I know this, I know where I'm going to apply for my next job! Ha Ha!!
Seriously...I see exactly what you see. I'm quite disturbed by it to tell you the truth. I mean let's be honest, if these places ran smoothly and efficiently, we wouldn't be discussing this. But you go to the DMV and get treated like # by some chic with Mike Tyson's attitude, you wonder what the # went on during the interview, for her to get that job. We may not be the same race or have the same goals, but I know the truth when I see it...and you sir, have told the truth!

Ten years ago, a black govt employee stole money that I was repaying a govt loan with to pay a man to go to jail on a coc aine trafficking charge he had. I went through all their "procedures". I was called to the side so many times and told that they had to have so many black people in that position and he was their black person for that position. I don't have a problem with a black person ion that position, I have a problem with THAT black person in that position. The mess was covered up all the way to the office of inspector general. Funny thing is that the drug task force knew all about it. It took me ten years and a congressman, but all I could do was get him moved out of that office. He now has a good 2 hour drive to and from work every day. I do get to smile a little about that. But the biggest thing is that he has cost me about $2M and put me in a financial position that I can never recover from. It's wrong of them to back a crook like him.

reply to post by maria_stardust


You will have to pardon me .I think your views on this topic are slanted.You demand statistics.The op clearly stated at the very beginning of this thread that it was based upon his opinion of things he personally observed locally with his own eyes.His own eyes being the operative phrase here.Now just how exactly do old national numbers fit in here.You also made an unsupported assumption that the state numbers would be the same.Really, the state is the same as the nation.You and other posters seem to either be unable to understand that phrase or are dilberately trying to derail this thread by taking it off topic.What part of opinion based on observation are you having difficulty understanding .There are no statistics avalible to either support this or deny it so take it in the spirit it was presented .Not to mention the fact that statistics can be made to prove anything or disprove the same.When I took statistical math in college the professor came in the first day and the first thing he said was you can use statistics to say anything you want.Then he proceded to manipulate some statical numbers in different ways to disprove what he had proven by using the numbers in a slightly different way.So just how valid do you really think statistics are.

Originally posted by MikeNitro94
Your question to me...is not racist. I'm Puerto Rican and I was explaining this to my son the other day! My reason for my conversation with him was to explain why the Government and Gov jobs are such an easy target for Republicans. Not on the surface, but underneath. In the skin of people like John Boehner, crawling around. And totally agree with you. I don't know why. My guess is that if it's in an urban area...I don't even know where I was going with that. I just can't plain explain it! I know this, I know where I'm going to apply for my next job! Ha Ha!!
Seriously...I see exactly what you see. I'm quite disturbed by it to tell you the truth. I mean let's be honest, if these places ran smoothly and efficiently, we wouldn't be discussing this. But you go to the DMV and get treated like # by some chic with Mike Tyson's attitude, you wonder what the **** went on during the interview, for her to get that job. We may not be the same race or have the same goals, but I know the truth when I see it...and you sir, have told the truth!

Ah yes, I agree the fact that these institutions do not run smoothly, and the way we are treated there contributes to me being more aware of these hiring practices. You being a minority AND agreeing with my observations shows that this issue transcends race, and affects ALL OF US!

Kind Regards,
GeminiSky

reply to post by GeminiSky

Again I could not care less about skin color or race. What I do care about is equality. Not just for the minorities but the majority as well. After all thats what Equality means right? ALL men created equal?

All men may be created equal but that doesn't mean they will be treated equal.

After following your posts throughout this thread, I am curious to how you think we could bring about this equality. Do you have suggestions or are we just going to keep talking about whether it is fair or unfair?

I'm not sure what kind of responses you are expecting when you say you see 80% of government jobs in your area going to minorities and then want to know if it is coincidence or something bigger while also stating that you THINK the applicants for these jobs are equally "minority and non-minority" (which I'm assuming when you say non-minority you mean white). Then you getting upset because people who, like me, don't know how to respond to your question based on personal observation? How do expect someone to discuss a possible conspiracy with you when they have no facts to support your claims? Are you just looking for people to say they have seen the same? Do you want someone to give you some type of answer that will ease your mind or prove your point?

Then, trying to help you answer your question, someone posted statistics about the demographics in government jobs and you dismissed them and basically said they very well could have been doctored. So it seems to me that you believe there is a conspiracy going on to hire mostly "minorities" in government jobs, but you ask everyone to give YOU the answer as to why this might be. Then, most people don't see any kind of conspiracy and state that they have nothing to go on other than your observations and point to the statistics that contradict what you are saying and you just want to push that there is a conspiracy.

I have an idea, why don't YOU tell US why you think the governments are hiring mostly minorities instead of bashing people who don't give you the answer you are looking for?

I also want to ask what the demographics are like where you live and in your surrounding area. Is it predominantly white, "minority", or is it an equal mix? I can tell you that where I live, there are few minorities working government jobs because there are few minorities where I live.

Originally posted by lonegurkha
reply to post by maria_stardust

 

You will have to pardon me .I think your views on this topic are slanted.You demand statistics.The op clearly stated at the very beginning of this thread that it was based upon his opinion of things he personally observed with his own eyes.His own eyes being the operative phrase here.You and other posters seem to either be unable to understand that phrase or are dilberately trying to derail this thread by taking it off topic.What part of opinion based on observation are you having difficulty understanding .There are no statistics avalible to either support this or deny it so take it in the spirit it was presented .Not to mention the fact that statistics can be made to prove anything or disprove the same.When I took statistical math in college the professor came in the first day and the first thing he said was you can use statistics to say anything you want.Then he proceded to manipulate some statical numbers in different ways to disprove what he had proven by using the numbers in a slightly different way.So just how valid do you really think statistics are.

You know what? Im starting to think that important parts of my OP are being intentionally overlooked and ignored at this point.

Im not sure how many times I will have to explain that these statistics are not a valid argument. Seeing how asking for facts about a personal observation, and asking for factual proof does NOT apply to my OP.

It is because this does not apply to my OP, any further posts using this argument will be viewed as off-topic attempts to derail this thread and will not be met with a response

--GS

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

Again I could not care less about skin color or race. What I do care about is equality. Not just for the minorities but the majority as well. After all thats what Equality means right? ALL men created equal?

All men may be created equal but that doesn't mean they will be treated equal.

After following your posts throughout this thread, I am curious to how you think we could bring about this equality. Do you have suggestions or are we just going to keep talking about whether it is fair or unfair?

I would try to put some sort of rigid and strict system of blind selection of candidates for jobs. I would set up interviews where the race of a person has no bearing, I would do away with the racial check boxes on job applications. Of course this may not be realistic, but it would be a start...

--GS

reply to post by lonegurkha


Your response goes to show the pointlessness of this thread. What are we supposed to discuss here if we are to limit it to the OP's observations? If we disagree, we get called out on not knowing any better because we don't live there. If we agree, then we are only agreeing on what we are being told with no facts to back it up. So what the heck are we supposed to be discussing?

The OP says he sees too many minorities holding government jobs and wants everyone to take his word and start making assumptions based on nothing about a conspiracy that we can't even tell is really happening. Not to mention, by constantly bringing up that this is limited to the OPs location and dismissing national statistics that show that, if what the OP says is true, it is not a widespread issue, and, therefore, there is not really much to discuss unless we are all to be worried that the OPs government agencies have an agenda that they aim to spread across the nation. If that's the case, then I suppose we'd have something to discuss.

reply to post by GeminiSky


How do u tell the difference? Usually the stuck up rich people is that what u mean at the gov offices...yessum?

reply to post by nunya13


Look around friend, no one here is limited to MY observations. If you take the time to read the responses, you would see that others have observed pretty much the same thing in different parts of the country and even the world...

I am not bashing anyone, and am not upset about anything, again a reply that is filled with gross assumptions.

If you feel this thread is pointless, you are welcome to browse around ATS and find something that vibes with you, because as you will see, not everyone here shares your opinion on my OP.

Yeh that is the case.

--GS

I don't consider the OP a rascist just because he asks "the question" as a WASP.

Think of it. In a time that the real unemployment rate is 22%-25%, wouldn't you expect that those who are at the state unemployment office to look around and question why most everyone employed there is a minority.

Fact is, if the rate continues at that level, I would expect some violence could be expressed from the increasingly frustrated long-term unemployed. In my state of Indiana TPTB recently said they were placing armed guards in each unemployment office around the state. See article:
theeconomiccollapseblog.com...

The reason for the minority situation in government jobs is that many WASPs did not seek employment,, prefering the private sector, in the past. Now with many WASPs unemployed and desperate some may feel this is unfair and strike out out of frustration and fear.

Here, in California, the only place I see minorities working in are; 1)The fields (Which I HIGHLY doubt ANY Caucasian would want to work in.) 2) Small stores (99cent store, gas stations, liquor stores) 3) Sometimes, when I get lucky a bank.
Sorry, but I don't see it. I wouldn't call you racist for wondering why. It's just a question.

reply to post by romanmel


WASP? Are you serious? I am neither unemployed nor a white anglo saxon protestant, why would you label me as such?

If you read this thread you would see that because of my mix of genes, I could be considered a minority as well.

Again I have a job (not the greatest) and I am NO wasp.

Please take the time to read the OP and understand who you post about before making such ignorant assumptions.

--GS

Originally posted by Honor93
many would differ this opinion, self included.

In other words, you and other ignore the facts of the system, favoring a fantasy version of what you think it's about, and then pretend that because this fact-free delusion is your opinion, that it must be treated equally to a statement of actual fact?

Yeah, good luck with htat.

from a minority who has been there (story from 2009) ... www.americanthinker.com...

Thanks for linking me to another person who's opinion is startlingly free of facts. In fact all he does is go around shouting "It's a quota system!" and then arguing against that, without ever once actually proving the original premise that it is, in fact, a quota system.

In other words, you have backed yourself up with another fact-lacking op-ed piece that is wholly based on a straw man argument. Nice going. Do you actually enjoy being lied to?

Would you like me to point out that it's an op-ed that is written by a white guy who starts out with a rather stereotypical "Some of my best friends are _____, but..."? Or that it's posted to a site with a very clear political bias? Nah, I think I'll just leave it at pointing out that you're using uninformed opinion to defend your uninformed opinion.

reply to post by GeminiSky

Same disclaimer as in the beginning of your OP. You are focusing on federal and state positions, and mainly your experience is with personal observatoin of state positions (like the DMV) and post office (fed). I have experience in federal circuits and the military (AF). People of all races are hired by the FEDERAL government. It's based on merit. Once you serve in the military (and a lot of minorities go to war for our country), you gain a bonus status of 5% just for having served your country. This can go up to 30% if you got disabled during your service. This allows former military a slight to moderate bonus for consideration for state/federal jobs. And rightfully so, for this person has directly served the defense of his/her country and has (or could easily have been ordered to) put his/her VERY LIFE on the line. A lot of hires for state/fed jobs take into account your past, your criminal record and your service to country.

The military is a place where people of all races and both genders learn to WORK TOGETHER like a football team in the game of national defense. After being in the military for a while, most people learn to put race issues aside and see people for what they are: people, Americans. Many of these patriots retire or leave the military... and transition into state/federal service. So, you're going to see a higher number of minorites since the military employs a higher number of minorities than the average company.

In the "good old days" of America, it was a world dominated by white males. Many things have changed since then and, of course, a lot of people are going to be upset by that. In the end, if you'd like a better chance at a state/fed job, then I'd recommend joining the military for at least 4 years and then apply for a state/fed job AFTER you leave service. At least you'll have training, experience and at least a 5% greater chance of getting such a job. But, really, if you want security, good pay and benefits, stay in the military. It's a good career.

reply to post by GeminiSky


Interesting fact; you don't have to check any of the boxes for race. Or you can check all of them. Those boxes don't affect your employment at all, and if you find out that they do, you can take it to court. After all, there's absolutely no way anyone can tell you "No, you're not a pacific islander!" - they sure as hell don't know if your grandma was from Tahiti, and it's not their business to ask. Rather, those little checkboxes are used for purely statistical reasons.

reply to post by GeminiSky


Your thread is titled "Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?" When people try to say different and back it up with FACT, you dismiss them, call them "sheeple", "dis-info", "blind", "conditioned" and act as there is an onslaught against you to get you riled. No. All that is happening is people are frustrated with the fact that you asked all of ATS a question and when you don't get the answer you want, you demean and dismiss. On top of that, you dismiss the facts that are meant to show evidence against your question and insist that we answer your question based on your observation and the observations of those who have seen the same and not even take into consideration those who have seen otherwise and FACTS that prove otherwise. Then you claim those facts are tampered with. Don't you see something wrong with asking people to only pay attention to the "facts" you agree with?

You're the one who asked the question and seem to ever-so-sightly upset when someone disagrees and calls you out on trying to lead a one-sided discussion while ignoring evidence that contradicts your question. Would you expect anything less from ATS?