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Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


Perhaps you who are all knowing could enlighten us as to what facts you presented that prove anything about this thread perhaps you in your infinite wisdom refer to the out of date statistical baloney that was spewed earlier in this thread.Everything you have contributed to this thread has been to derail it.Every time you reply it is to demonstrate that you didn't understand what the op wrote at the beginning.So find something else to whine about.you grow tiresome.




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 



off topic.


Im just curious.... why did you choose a large red crescent circling the earth as your avatar?



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by noctos
 


Just liked the look.Thought it might make folks wonder about me.Guess it worked LOL

Notice that only N. and S America are there wierd huh.
edit on 2/17/2011 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 


Yeah I just read an article about a solar flare hitting the atmosphere on monday night and it kinda reminded me of "the knowing" movie. Also kinda looks like an islamic symbol.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by noctos
 


Yeah that's what I thought to I'm not moslem though.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by lonegurkha
reply to post by maria_stardust
 


You are one of the problems here.You want to quote useless statistics.The numbers you wanted to quote earlier in this thread were 5 to 7 years out of date.I also addressed statistics earlier in this thread.Try reading the minority people who added to this thread and agreed with the op.They work in those very jobs.All you have done here is be a disruptive force and demonstrate a lack of understanding of what the op stated in the beginning.


Yes folks, here again, we have someone other than ME, noticing the attempted disruption in this thread by this particular poster. Again her posts are filled with assumptions, its like she conveniently cherry picks things to latch on to out of my thread, and COMPLETELY OVERLOOKS other parts, including my responses.

maria_stardust, PLEASE read my posts and all other responses on this thread before making false assumptions, and attempting to "decide what I must be thinking" for me.

I have my own mind, and can make my own statements in regards to my thoughts and intentions.

I would like you to understand that the more you try to directly or indirectly derail this thread, the more everyone can see your true nature and intentions. I saw right thru you the minute you told me to "keep chanting my mantra"

...and YES I would assume that because you are a "super" moderator on ATS, that you would be more open minded and able to debate things in a more civil manner than the average poster, however your posts here seem to indicate otherwise.

Also I'm just curious, do you moderate in the "general conspiracy's" forum? Do you moderate in any specific forums?

If you wish to be taken seriously, then REPLY TO THE QUESTIONS that myself and others have asked you, instead of conveniently ignoring them and latching on to easier points as you continue to "try" to explain away my PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS.

EDIT: The above request goes out to not only the poster mentioned, but also others here seem to have the same ill intentions to disrupt healthy discussion on this thread. (you know who you are)

Thanks,
--GeminiSky

edit on 17-2-2011 by GeminiSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 

thank you and this evaluation you suggest, i agree needs to be done.
However, in the reality of this thread, it would be my suggestion to the OP... to have included a phrase similar to: govt jobs that directly interact with the public at large (or something similar) ... because that would be more reflective of his point, imho.

No one is disputing or discussing stats ... this thread wasn't intended to (as the OP states repeatedly) ... and i don't doubt there exists an imbalance in more places than one but that isn't his point nor should it be diverted in such a way.

I believe the biggest 'conspiracy' here is the perception of whom is classified 'minority' but moreso What is the purpose? IF we are equal, then we are equal ... i like the OPs idea of blind interviews, removing any ethnic/gender references, promotions based solely on merit, eliminating all unions, reducing govt, reducing red tape, encouraging self-esteem and market competition. 2/3 of all govt agencies are truly unnecessary and simply serve as a funnel for ill gotten gains.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:58 PM
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Reply to post by something wicked
 


Hi there,
Your response was to another poster, but please take a look at what you have said in context of the OP please, you have me confused. If you believe the OP was not referring to ethnic minorities, then which 'minorities' do you believe he was referring to and if they were not of an ethnic nature how would he be able to say 80% fell into such a bracket? As apart from gender I'm not sure how such an assessment could be made, so not sure what you are trying to say.
hello there and thank you for your almost civil response

The easiest answer is the simple one ... most are confused as to whom is classified a minority today, not 50yrs ago.
As stated earlier, most ppl are confusing what is merely a coincidence.
All minorities are Not based on ethnicity ... it is only a coincidence that many minorities are of a different ethnicity than caucasion.

Example: 1 room 20 ppl ... 10 female, 10 male (color irrelevant) .. based on visual observations, i am positive of the following --> minimum 10 = minority (women) ... 2 men are disabled = minority ... 2 men are clearly seniors/elderly = minority ... the other 4 are completely questionable at first glance unless they are 'other' than caucasion. does this help you understand my point? based on the above, by simple observation (and knowing the rules) we have a room with at least an 80% minority populus.


The OP never suggested ethnicity in the opening statement, it was just randomly perceived in error. The term 'minority' has become as offensive as racial slurs were before they became illegal to utter.

The remainder of this mish-mash isn't deserving a response.
However, to answer your question, yes, exactly ... who are you or anyone else to put words (especially that one - ethnic) where it doesn't exist? minorities = all in the example above and others ... seems you should learn about which you speak, as should many others.

only answering out of understanding and willingness to share.
if we are equal, why should we be classified as minorities in anything?
edit to add ~~ by the way, i am also classified, minority ... regardless of my skin color or
ethnicity
oooops, forgot the question ... so, as a minority, what am i?? a WASP
, disabled, senior, female, vet, ethnically challenged
or other?

edit on 17-2-2011 by Honor93 because: add text[/editbyo]
edit on 17-2-2011 by Honor93 because: add question
extra DIV



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 


It's interesting to see how a small clique of posters in this thread are heavily intent in making this about me and my status as a super moderator, rather than about the question you posed yourself. I'm not the one derailing this thread, nor has that ever been my intent.

It became rather apparent you didn't care for my stance that the federal statistics presented early on proved your assumption to be false. You then had the audacity to inquire about my ethnicity, as if that had anything at all to do with the issue or my response. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Talk about a poor attempt of deflection.

Be that as it may, I have just as much right as any other member to participate in any thread as a matter of intelligent discourse. You may not like what I have to say, and that's perfectly alright. You are entitled to your opinion just as much as the next person -- including me.

Let's take a brief look at this thread thus far:

You posed the question - "Why do minorities get most government and state jobs?" based upon your personal observations at the DMV.


Originally posted by GeminiSky
Simply put, it seems to me that minorities here are awarded state and govt jobs far more often that the average Caucasian.


As has been stated numerous times throughout this thread by other posters who don't necessarily agree with your stance -- the statistics don't validate your claim. In other words, your perception, observation, whatever-you-want-to-call-it doesn't match the reality. It's as simple as that.

You refuse to accept the facts as they are because they don't fit your personal perception. You have claimed your perception as fact, which it is not.

Others have shared similar anecdotal experiences to yours which gives the illusion that there is merit to your claim. Again, these are based on each individual's personal perception -- not necessarily the overall reality of the situation.

As far as this thread goes, all you want to hear is how your stance is right on target. These posts you are more than willing to accept because they fit your view. The moment anyone else tries to explore why your premise is false (doesn't match concrete facts) or offer an explanation as to why there is the perception of more minorities than Caucasians holding federal and state jobs (the workforce is a reflection of local demographics) you brush them off as naysayers, blind, sheeple, disinfo agents and any other number of categorical insults.

You have tried numerous times to reign in this thread to your wishes that your observations be accepted as fact, while denying actual proof/statistics/facts/truths as so...


Originally posted by GeminiSky
Im not sure how many times I will have to explain that these statistics are not a valid argument.


Well, that doesn't leave much leeway for thorough and balanced discussion.


Originally posted by GeminiSky
If you wish to be taken seriously, then REPLY TO THE QUESTIONS that myself and others have asked you, instead of conveniently ignoring them and latching on to easier points as you continue to "try" to explain away my PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS.


You act as if I've never even addressed the original issue. I assure you, I have. But, hey, if you want me to repeat myself again, that's fine too.

Again, your question: "Why do minorities get most government and state jobs?"

My response: They don't. You're "PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS" are not supported by the actual facts. Personal observations are not necessarily an accurate reflection of reality.

Another member raised the issue of what constitutes a minority in this thread based on the opening post:


Originally posted by Honor93
This, couldn't be farther from the truth.
YOU assume he 'meant' ethnic minorities, he said NO such thing. -- FAIL


In actuality, that is precisely what was implied in the opening post:


Originally posted by GeminiSky
Simply put, it seems to me that minorities here are awarded state and govt jobs far more often that the average Caucasian.


Race was explicitly stated in regards to minorities vs. "the average Caucasian." Not the average male Caucasian. The attempt to bolster the claim that there are more minorities holding federal and state jobs than "the average Caucasian" by the inclusion of women and the disabled is amusingly disingenuous as Caucasians can easily fit within these two categories. Nice try, though.


So... we've covered the following:

  • My status as a Super Mod. Check.
  • Why do minorities get most government and state jobs? (They don't.) Check.
  • The whole ethnic minority vs. "the average Caucasian" bit. Check.


As far as I can tell that pretty much covers it. If there's anything further you wish to discuss, please let me know.
edit on 2/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


Wow, just wow. You did it again. Cherry picking.

We have established the following:

1. You blindly believe any govt printed statistical data as FACT, and are NOT WILLING to accept that the actual reality of the situation COULD be different, and in fact may be opposing the statistics, as witnessed by mine and many others personal observations.

2. You again dont answer all questions you have been asked. You simply cherry pick the ones you feel will make your argument and answer those. Lets see, out of all the questions ive asked, you chose one (1)

3. You say that if I don't believe the statistics, then it leaves no room for balanced discussion. Well I say since my thread was NOT based on statistics, the correct thing to do for you to discuss this with me would be to make your OWN OBSERVATIONS and come back here to debate my OBSERVATIONS like many other posters here have done.

Please just answer me one question: Do you believe all government printed statistical data to be COLD HARD FACTS that REPRESENT THE ACTUAL REALITY of our surroundings?

Because if you don't believe ALL of the govt data, then your argument based on these dated statistics is flawed.

On the other hand if you choose to blindly believe govt issued public data as cold hard facts, then I will accept that sad fact, and in the spirit of keeping the peace, I will not attempt to argue with you any further.

(as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but ya cant make her drink)

--Kind Regards
GeminiSky



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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Reply to post by maria_stardust
 


It became rather apparent you didn't care for my stance that the federal statistics presented early on proved your assumption to be false.
the stats to which you refer are seriously out of date (5 & 7yrs respectively) ... they have -0- relevance to this discussion (as your commentary thus far)

you have provided -0-, zip, no facts of any kind, let alone any current statistics that reflect the OPs stance regarding govt jobs and those who interact with the public.

You have offered your Opinion based on seriously out-dated information, lack of understanding, and an unwillingness to admit your own misleading commentary.
Which, by the way, only serves to prove you have no intention of discussing the point of this thread.


Be that as it may, I have just as much right as any other member to participate in any thread as a matter of intelligent discourse.
while this is not only true but welcome on every thread, why are you keeping us all waiting for that "intelligent discourse" you mentioned?


You posed the question - "Why do minorities get most government and state jobs?" based upon your personal observations at the DMV.
with this, i would suspect you are experiencing a language or comprehension barrier.
The question: "why do minorities get most government and state jobs" is a valid and complete thought ... without any reference to 'ethnicity'.
Then, the OP reveals his personal experience as valid reason to pose the question.
are you clearer now?

At no time did he declare that his experience was a National Standard (hence, stats). At no time did he infer or state that ethnicity had any role in this discussion, yet you keep harping on it.

And, rather concede to your confusion and gain some knowledge and/or clarification, you prefer to beat a dead horse ... interesting.

For the last time (hopefully), the OP never claimed his experience is/was or reflects any national standard ... just his locale and he is curious about those elsewhere ... why is this a problem for you?


You refuse to accept the facts as they are because they don't fit your personal perception. You have claimed your perception as fact, which it is not.
and your perception that severely out-dated statistics have any relevance is becoming factually humorous.


Others have shared similar anecdotal experiences to yours which gives the illusion that there is merit to your claim. Again, these are based on each individual's personal perception -- not necessarily the overall reality of the situation.
so, if you haven't experienced any similar situation, how do you qualify your opinion (based on out-dated nonsense)? personally, at this point, it do believe it resembles rubbish.


Again, your question: "Why do minorities get most government and state jobs?"

My response: They don't. You're "PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS" are not supported by the actual facts. Personal observations are not necessarily an accurate reflection of reality.


Simply put, it seems to me that minorities here are awarded state and govt jobs far more often that the average Caucasian.


Race was explicitly stated in regards to minorities vs. "the average Caucasian."
WRONG

Not the average male Caucasian
WRONG again ... many 'average male Caucasians' are classified minority. do you need a list?
It is clear you have no clue what constitutes a 'minority' classification of a person.
when you learn what that is, perhaps we'll move on to some intelligent discourse.

oh and one more question you're avoiding answering ... asked earlier ... who (which persons specifically) are NOT classified as minority? when you can properly answer this question, you will begin to understand the point of this thread.
one more ... other than caucasion, name any ethnicity that is Not classified as minority.
good luck with that one, no stats or google search will support your hypothesis.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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it sounds like you guys just want us to fold and admit that the op is right. not gonna happen. if the ops observations were correct and its true that the majority of state workers are minorities so what? so some minorities have some decent paying jobs and you cant accept it. if they arent working they are called lazy, when they are working you cry unfair. there is a majority of minorities working at the mcdonalds by my house whats the point??? there is a majority of whites in politics! the majority of billionaires are white. we can play this game all night.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 
i cannot believe you make this ridiculous claim

Race was explicitly stated in regards to minorities vs. "the average Caucasian." Not the average male Caucasian.
Therein lies your confusion ... the ONLY 'average Caucasian' who is not a minority is male.
contrary to your opinion, ALL of the following caucasians are classified as a minority ... (whether you agree or not)
C/women
C/elders regardless of gender or age
C/veterans regardless of gender or age
C/disabled regardless of gender or age
C/criminals also regardless of age or gender
i believe there are others but at the moment, i believe i've made my point.
All of the above are likely to be ready, willing and able employees.
All of the above who apply WILL be considered before and above any 'average caucasian'(male).
which happens to be the crux of the OPs opening communique.

once you have a better understanding of what a minority is (in the US) then you'll know why the phrase "average Caucasian" can ONLY mean caucasian male.
your severe misunderstanding of what you promote translates to propaganda.
Please be above such.

So, we've covered the following:
deny ignorance
edumacate or at least try
be respectful of others
clarify misconceptions
deny ignorance ... check, check and double check



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 





I agree the fact that these institutions do not run smoothly, and the way we are treated there contributes to me being more aware of these hiring practices. You being a minority AND agreeing with my observations shows that this issue transcends race, and affects ALL OF US!


Why do you feel these institutions don't run smoothly?

As for being treated badly, do you think many of us feel this way because of our inherited opinion that those employees work for us? Out of all of your observations, what percentage of the times have you been treated badly?

How knowledgeable are you in the hiring practices?

One final question. I see Honor93 is defining what you mean by minority. Care to give your definition of what you mean minorities? Maybe I missed it if you already have.

Sorry for the questions. Just trying to understand how your observations equate to a problem just because you saw more minorities.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
it sounds like you guys just want us to fold and admit that the op is right. not gonna happen. if the ops observations were correct and its true that the majority of state workers are minorities so what? so some minorities have some decent paying jobs and you cant accept it. if they arent working they are called lazy, when they are working you cry unfair. there is a majority of minorities working at the mcdonalds by my house whats the point??? there is a majority of whites in politics! the majority of billionaires are white. we can play this game all night.
speaking for myself only here, it would be nice if y'all would quit arguing nonsense and offer some of your own 'observations' ... you know, like the topic suggests.

no one is indicating if the OP is right or wrong, it isn't that kind of thread.
so what? are u serious? the first step in fixing a problem is identifying it or is that news to you?

you are sooooo lost in the propaganda that you just can't see the obvious, can you?
IF we are equal, what is the purpose of minority classification?

what difference does a color make? whites in politics you say? well, so are africans, bahamians, hispanics, puerto ricans, irish, german, japanese, muslim and many others ... what's your point?

what do white billionaires have to do with this topic?
and besides, there are plenty of other colors too, what does either add to the conversation? ... or ... are you just slinging mud from deep inside that sinking quicksand you've stumbled upon?



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by GeminiSky
 


You claim that I haven't answered questions raised or have addressed the issue as stated in your opening post. That is false. You are more than welcome to present a list of questions and I will be more than happy to answer them. Knock yourself out.



1. You blindly believe any govt printed statistical data as FACT, and are NOT WILLING to accept that the actual reality of the situation COULD be different, and in fact may be opposing the statistics, as witnessed by mine and many others personal observations.


Sure, anything COULD be different. For example, I "could" be a pan dimensional being from another galaxy. Or, the New World Order "could" be governed by a bunch of Reptilians who based their decisions over demitasse cups of espresso and rousing games of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Or, that even that the Matrix "could" exist.

But then again, COULD and IS are two completely different things. It would be folly to suggest otherwise.

You do realize though that the proverbial "COULD" door swings both ways. You are NOT WILLING to consider that statistics provided "COULD" be an accurate representation of reality.

I've no doubt that you observed more minorities at the DMV during your visit. That was what you saw and therefore your personal perception. However, your personal perception (COULD) is not necessarily an accurate depiction of reality (IS). That has been the point I've stressed all along.



2. You again dont answer all questions you have been asked. You simply cherry pick the ones you feel will make your argument and answer those. Lets see, out of all the questions ive asked, you chose one (1)


Again, provide a list of questions. If they pertain to the issue, and not my mod status or ethnicity, I'd be more than happy to answer them.



3. You say that if I don't believe the statistics, then it leaves no room for balanced discussion. Well I say since my thread was NOT based on statistics, the correct thing to do for you to discuss this with me would be to make your OWN OBSERVATIONS and come back here to debate my OBSERVATIONS like many other posters here have done.


You posed a question based on your personal observations. Federal employment statistics from 2006 (hardly ancient history by any stretch of the imagination) were presented by another member in an honest and sincere attempt to answer your question: "Why do minorities get most government and state jobs?"

You may not have presented statistical facts, but another person has done so. If you want to ignore the statistical evidence provided, that's your prerogative. But you cannot seriously expect to create an atmosphere of intelligent, frank and open discussion by narrowing the scope of the conversation to only personal observations.

That is a ridiculous notion for the simple reason that as civilians we are only limited to what we can observe from the limited view of the front office, as opposed to having full access to an entire government or state department which more than likely consists of multiple offices spread across several floors, and perhaps, buildings. In other words our personal observations would not be an accurate representation of reality. Seriously, what would be the point of such a futile endeavor?

So, NO, your attempt to stifle open discussion by demanding that the CORRECT thing to do would be to compare personal observation to personal observation is without a doubt wrong.



Please just answer me one question: Do you believe all government printed statistical data to be COLD HARD FACTS that REPRESENT THE ACTUAL REALITY of our surroundings?


I believe the 2006 federal employment statistics presented in this thread to be an accurate representation of the actual workforce. Nice try at a loaded overall blanket statement.




(as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but ya cant make her drink)


How mature. I hope that little dig makes you feel better. You do realize that your continued insults (sheeple, disinfo agents, blind, etc.) are just a poor reflection upon your character?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
it sounds like you guys just want us to fold and admit that the op is right. not gonna happen. if the ops observations were correct and its true that the majority of state workers are minorities so what? so some minorities have some decent paying jobs and you cant accept it. if they arent working they are called lazy, when they are working you cry unfair. there is a majority of minorities working at the mcdonalds by my house whats the point??? there is a majority of whites in politics! the majority of billionaires are white. we can play this game all night.


Why do you insist on demonstrating that you don't have a clue of what is being spoken of in this thread.There are already a couple of ignorant people here trying to derail this thread.There are more to minorities than racial minorities.What about veterans,women,disabled people,the elderly.as you say we can go on all night.The op never said any of what you accused him of saying.That's not at all what he said you need to comprehend what you read better. Either that or you never read this thread in the first place because you are demonstrating one or the other of those two things.You are making unfounded assumptions based on what information only you know because your statements don't fit the facts of what has been said here.There are as many minorities in politics as whites.The majority of billionaires in the world are chinese.These questions were addressed within the last three pages so you clearly haven't read them.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 
following this nonsense, i bid you all farewell
--> 6yr old stats (statistical data is from 2005 or earlier) COULD be interchanged with 10-20-30-40 or 50yrs ago just as easily. the statistics presented (as fallible as they are) are Not a current reflection of any current conditions.

and while the OPs perception Could be a more realistic view of today's conditions, the stats mentioned could Not even come close. that anyone would even consider such i find childish at best.

your repeated attempts to stifle any discussion based on invalid, out-dated, bullshiz is becoming a comic line i only wish George Carlin was here to share.



I believe the 2006 federal employment statistics presented in this thread to be an accurate representation of the actual workforce.
wow, out of touch isn't a big enough description to give this absurd, imaginary interpretation of today's reality ... let's see, US unemployment (05) - 5% (source: money.cnn.com...) ... [golly gee, it was almost equal that of the 1950s - source: en.wikipedia.org...:Us_unemployment_rates_1950_2005.png ...

today (ie: current) - unemployment is teetering around 10% but somehow you find the two years comparable?
simply amazing.

it shouldn't be out of line for me to surmise that since you keep avoiding my questions, you do not desire any valid discussion within the context of the subject matter. cheers
edit on 18-2-2011 by Honor93 because: to correct addressee



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 01:10 AM
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So I only read pages 1, 9, and 11.... this is my impression so far.

1. Why does it seem minorities get a lot of state and federal jobs like post office, dmv and other lower level public service jobs?
2. People point and scream "racist!"
3. Quote unrelated govt statistics., waahh but almost everyone who works for nasa is white, and educated! so it must be okay for the dmv to favor hiring minorities over a perfectly qualified white male.

3. Durr let us define minority!

4. A "super mod" that no one seems to like shows up, reads less posts than I did and starts trying to set people straight.

Does this sum up the current status of this thread? Or should I go back and read more?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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The OP pointed-out his perception that "minorities" seem to have an uncomfortably large percentage of government/state jobs, based on his limited encounters with such organizations as the DMV, Post Office and Social Security Office, etc.

What about many OTHER avenues of employment, excluding the military (since we've already covered that). Let's look at the service industry. Would you say that "minorities" are the *majoriy* there? How many McDonald's, Wendy's, Hardees, BK's, Arby's and Taco Bells (plus others) are manned by "minorities?"

How many cabs have you gotten into that are driven by white males? How many 7-11s are manned by "whites?" How many luggage checkers at the airport are whites?

In the end, the direction of YOUR PERSONAL JOURNEY IN THIS LIFE is determined by YOU. A person going around and blaming other races and ethnicities and cultures for his/her private demise is foolish. YOU are in charge of your own destiny. YOU are empowered to better YOURself. YOU control these most important factors in YOUR life...

To try to BLAME others for your own shortfallings is simply lazy. Take control. Set higher standards. Embrace a higher power of your choosing.

Souls have no particular color. We all bleed red.

We are not humans having a spiritual experience. We are SPIRITS having a HUMAN experience.

IMHO



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