Why do Minorities get most Govt and State Jobs?

Originally posted by Haza32
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

Dont call me racist but, i find it funny how they move to OUR country, they bring their culture to our city streets whilst we give them, a house, a car, benefits for living and when their ready they will move on to get a job which is rightly deserved by a non- minority, we even build churches for them!

BUT!.. when we go to their country, if we tried bringing our way of life into the community, we'd most likely get shot.

go figure, guess this is the world we live in.

That's an interesting post. I notice you are in Australia - to make those comments I'm guessing you are an Aborigine and you are commenting on ALL non indiginous people who move/have moved to Australia? You're not are you, or at least your avatar suggests not.

I'm beginning to notice a common thread here, the op says minority,that means women, hispanic races,Various white races,Arab races,asian races etc.including black.But the racists here only see the word black when they reply.Apparently to them blacks are the only minority.This couldn't be more racist.
The other thing I have noticed is people have no idea of what they have read here.They just want to rant about what ever their particular obsession is whether it be statistics or attacking the op just cause he has the guts to ask a sticky question.Or to rant on and on about blacks.If you don't understand what the post is about either ask for an explaination or go elsewhere to something you can understand.Don't derail the thread cause you don't get it.

reply to post by lonegurkha


The only derailing of the thread that is occurring is from members who complain about other members not agreeing with the OP.

What you are complaining about is not derailment -- it's discussing the issue. The OP asked a pertinent question and it has been discussed in ways that are not necessarily to his liking.

reply to post by lonegurkha


Agreed. Some people see the word minority, yet they instantly think they read "black people are lazy".

Some people see racism in everything and they don't understand that they're creating it or making it worse.
We cannot overcome racism unless we address certain issues head on. Pretending that they don't exist only heightens people's nerves until something like the OP causes them to boil over. In reality, all he did was ask why he sees more minorities in state and Gov. jobs. Personally, I believe him. If he meant blacks exclusively, he would have said "black people".

It's easy to answer this opinion.

There are a couple different reasons why govt positions may be filled by minorities:

1. Area demographics of course.
2. Not as many minorities preach about the horrors of govt socialism and theft. So while many caucasians look down upon govt employment, blacks have no such problem.
3. Govt jobs have always (since I was a child) been regarded as good avenues of employment.

One major thing you should take into account however, is, the people you see at the counter and maybe their immediate supervisor is black...but all of the upper management is white. Why is this you ask? Because this country has changed a little, the discrimination and racism is much more covert now. No company wants to be regarded as being racist and having to deal with the attention that will come with that title.

Always peep behind the curtains to see the real picture. This reminds me of my service in the Army. I remember thinking how such a great organization the Army was and how fair they were. I mean, I saw how many 1st Sergeants and Sergeant Majors were black so I figured the Army gave everyone a fair shot. As I got wiser I figured the catch there...Being a Sergeant Major doesn't mean # in the grand scheme! So yeah a black guy can earn that rank, what about becoming commissioned as a officer though!

See this is where America has moved too. The outcry has become too loud to just publicly spit in the face of blacks and other minorities. So the attitude is, "Let them have the little entry level, maybe up to team leader position, because in the grand scheme it means nothing."

reply to post by Southern Guardian

hmmmm, observation < fact??? since when?
the entire industry of science is based on empirical evidence ... do you know what that is???
Observation ... guess that's good enough to equate to a fact for the whole industry ... why are you having difficulty with the concept?
seems you'd be a bit too dependent on statistics, which are frequently less than representative of the subject being evaluated.

hmmmm, to those who claim 'minorities' don't reach upper level govt positions ... i offer Obama, Pelosi, Rangel, Sherrod, Rubio, Menendez, Inouye, Boxer, Murkowski, Snowe, Chu, Hurono, Matsui and many others ... ALL of whom ARE minorities, in this country.

Now, would you ppl please take your circle-jerk arguments elsewhere? Reality is what it is ... just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't change it.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Always peep behind the curtains to see the real picture. This reminds me of my service in the Army. I remember thinking how such a great organization the Army was and how fair they were. I mean, I saw how many 1st Sergeants and Sergeant Majors were black so I figured the Army gave everyone a fair shot. As I got wiser I figured the catch there...Being a Sergeant Major doesn't mean # in the grand scheme! So yeah a black guy can earn that rank, what about becoming commissioned as a officer though!

Woooah, there hero. Your personal experiences in the Army don't define the reality of experience in the Army. Maybe what you saw was accurate; then again, it does sound like you're a bit slanted in one direction. There are plenty of E7s-E9s of *all* races (and genders) in our military (Army, Navy, AF, Marines, Coast Guard, all of 'em). There are certainly tons of "white" senior NCOs and petty officers, too. Mirroring that, the statements are true for officers as well.

Maybe your Army experience was a few decades ago? In the here-and-now, especially in joint commands (commands that have people of all branches working there, usually HQs) a person gets a wide cross-section of race and gender. It's like Star Trek's Federation. Really, no kidding. There are people of all races and genders working, there are disabled people, there are trans-gender folks, there are government civilians and government contractors ---of all colors, shapes, sizes, ethnic and religious backgrounds, etc.

America is strong because of diverse nature, unlike most every other country in the world. The strongest alloys are comprised of layers of materials with *DIFFERENT* qualities, like a master-forged samurai sword. Too hard, too brittle, a sword breaks. To soft, to flexible, it is not sharp. The BEST swords have both intertwined and interwoven together... like Americans.

Before we get too wrapped-up with "African" Americans, "Native" Americans, "Irish" Americans, "Mexican" Americans, "Italian" Americans, "Asian" Americans, "Scandanavian" Americans... et. al. ad infinitum ad naseum, let's realize that we are AMERICANS. PERIOD. FIRST.

IMHO.

LAST THOUGHT: Just go out there and do your PERSONAL BEST, and don't worry about what Bob at the DMV is doing. Aspire to your own goal. Improve yourself in every way possible. Become that CHIVALROUS person and reach for your stars. Whether or not you get there doesn't matter, for the effort yields rewards of its own.

reply to post by GhostLancer

and since when does the term "minority" auto-translate into ethnicity??????

Before we get too wrapped-up with "African" Americans, "Native" Americans, "Irish" Americans, "Mexican" Americans, "Italian" Americans, "Asian" Americans, "Scandanavian" Americans... et. al. ad infinitum ad naseum, let's realize that we are AMERICANS. PERIOD. FIRST

comprehension sure is a challenge 'round here.
edit ~~ ps: am off to the DMV, which i haven't been in for 2yrs ... will gladly post any 'changes' noted.
last time i was there, 1person Could have been non-minority ... then again, he could have been a minority, he didn't wait on me and i didn't inquire.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

and since when does the term "minority" auto-translate into ethnicity??????

Before we get too wrapped-up with "African" Americans, "Native" Americans, "Irish" Americans, "Mexican" Americans, "Italian" Americans, "Asian" Americans, "Scandanavian" Americans... et. al. ad infinitum ad naseum, let's realize that we are AMERICANS. PERIOD. FIRST

comprehension sure is a challenge 'round here.

It was merely an observation that people are getting wrapped-up in our differences and creating roadblocks instead of embracing our differences. Comprehension sure is a challenge 'round here for you seem to have missed the big picture and instead chose to insult. Perhaps try reading that post as a whole and perceiving and comprehending the gist of it instead of trying to find a way to nitpick. Have fun at the DMV. Cheers.

i would like to point out, there are three dmv's that i have been to in my area (chicagoland) and not one of them have i noticed the majority of employees being minorities. so from my "observation" dmv's are majority white. do you realize how stupid that sounded? by the way, the white employees were just as rude as the employees the op described.

Originally posted by lonegurkha

The other thing I have noticed is people have no idea of what they have read here.They just want to rant about what ever their particular obsession is whether it be statistics or attacking the op just cause he has the guts to ask a sticky question.Or to rant on and on about blacks.If you don't understand what the post is about either ask for an explaination or go elsewhere to something you can understand.Don't derail the thread cause you don't get it.

What are we not getting then? Please tell us. This is not a sticky question. The facts show otherwise and immediately get dismissed.

The thing I have noticed is that the OP asked a SPECIFIC question that is completely biased in and of itself. When people have pointed out that there is no evidence that minorities get the most Govt and state jobs with FACT, they are shot down as "not understanding", "dis-info", "blind", and "conditioned."

The OP is asking a question and wants us to use only HIS observations and those that agree with his (never mind the ones, like mine, that don't) when answering the biased question. If any of us have a different experience and point out that this is not a wide spread issue by providing OUR observation and even FACTS to back it up, we are then told to get lost basically. The guidelines on ATS demand that you substantiate your observations with fact as much as possible. What does the OP do? States that his observations ARE fact!! How can that be? Is this a new standard on ATS? Since the OP couldn't provide facts to back up his CLAIM others did it for him and when they showed the quite the opposite is true, the facts were dismissed as being tampered with furthering a conspiratorial view to which I have clue what the conspiracy is.

You can't ask a question that such as "Why do minorities get most Govt and State jobs" which leaves no room for a differing opinion. So, basically, the OP is set in his idea that there is something going on which leads minorities to have most of the government jobs and won't accept any view that thinks differently.

Then we all get told to go elsewhere if we don't want to join the discussion under the guidelines that the OP laid out, which is either you agree or you don't and if you don't, shut up and get gone. A lot of us are getting frustrated with this kind of attitude on ATS. If you want to post a thread on ATS, you have to be willing to hold a debate and discuss the different sides, not shoot down anyone who has a differing opinion.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


That has been my exact "observation" too. But it doesn't matter. The OP only wants to know why minorities get all the jobs regardless of the fact that it doesn't seem to be a true statement as has been substantiated with observation AND fact.

There's apparently some kind of conspiracy going on and most of don't even know what it is.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Always peep behind the curtains to see the real picture. This reminds me of my service in the Army. I remember thinking how such a great organization the Army was and how fair they were. I mean, I saw how many 1st Sergeants and Sergeant Majors were black so I figured the Army gave everyone a fair shot. As I got wiser I figured the catch there...Being a Sergeant Major doesn't mean # in the grand scheme! So yeah a black guy can earn that rank, what about becoming commissioned as a officer though!

Woooah, there hero. Your personal experiences in the Army don't define the reality of experience in the Army. Maybe what you saw was accurate; then again, it does sound like you're a bit slanted in one direction. There are plenty of E7s-E9s of *all* races (and genders) in our military (Army, Navy, AF, Marines, Coast Guard, all of 'em). There are certainly tons of "white" senior NCOs and petty officers, too. Mirroring that, the statements are true for officers as well.

Actually, I think what the guy was trying to say is something we all have noticed. I served 24 years on active duty in the Army in the Infantry and MI and SF as up to the rank of E7 then as an MI and SF officer to 04.

I noticed the same thing. Blacks seem to be overrepresented in the ranks of the Senior NCOs E7 and above but under represented in the Senior Officer ranks O6 and above.

This representation both in relation to the number of blacks in the Army of all ranks and grades and in relation to their representation in the population at large in the country.

This document seems to back up that claim: Military Leadership Diversity Commission

Specifically looking at page 9 in the presentation you can see that the red line representing black officers trails off at the rank of O6 and then goes back up a bit at O10. Likely the upswing at O10 is because there are so few General Officers at that grade even a change of one or two makes a big difference.

Also. Looking at page 13 regarding enlisted ranks you can see the two things that jump out at me:

1) Is the huge incline of black representation at the pay grade E8 and E9.

2) Is the sharp and definite decline in white representation after the same.

Seems to me that these stats back up my own observation that especially at the rank of Sergeant Major there is a statistical annomoly of some kind.

reply to post by GhostLancer

It was merely an observation that people are getting wrapped-up in our differences and creating roadblocks instead of embracing our differences. Comprehension sure is a challenge 'round here for you seem to have missed the big picture and instead chose to insult. Perhaps try reading that post as a whole and perceiving and comprehending the gist of it instead of trying to find a way to nitpick. Have fun at the DMV. Cheers.

pardon my saying so but i believe it is you who has missed the BIG picture.
Focusing on irrelevant optics does nothing to enhance the topic, does nothing to encourage less of it and overall ... it is a Complete distraction from the point the OP made.

while your observation regarding others may be on target, you are presuming the worst.
This thread has nothing to do with embracing our differences - this derail attempt fails

As for your pvs post, i almost gave you a star until i read the part we're discussing.
i did read it, ALL of it.
and actually, after your edit, again i almost gave you a star (it was probably the best part of it) ... but, i was curious as to your response here. sorry, no stars for you.
_______________________________________

Today's visit to the DMV, as promised ...
well now, i'm quite happy to share that was 1000 times easier than expected.
No kudos to the gubt but the process at the DMV has most certainly improved.

Before i get into the details, it should be known that our county is in the process of
combining offices ... DMV moving to and sharing duties with the local Tax Collector.
The TC office is under construction yet the efficiency was much more than anticipated.
kudos to the staff.
No big project on my part, just renewing vehicle tags (i forgot to mail'em)

so, for a process that took a minimum of 1.5-2 hours, last visit (1.25hrs waiting) ... this trip was complete in less than 30 minutes, sweet.
Thank You Keisha. (not that she'll ever see this, but) Thank You.

ok, on to the viewing of the premises ... ie: my observations
27 service stations (6 empty - reasonable for lunch hr), 1 receptionist, 1 security guard, 3 mgt floating
of the employees visible ... a Large majority were women = minority
*** 2 males in building - security guard (who appears hispanic so i'm guessing, minority)
- Cust Svc employee in wheelchair = minority
all other visible employees were women ... of those women, 2 were dark skinned, -0- were otherwise ethnically identifiable.

i will say the other employees were some form of caucasion but i won't even got out on a limb to identify them further. (even 'out on a limb' would be pure speculation on my part and it doesn't matter anyway cause they are ALL minorities, of one definition or another)

what too many ppl seem to be assuming here is that minority = ethnicity and that is Not wholly true. yes, many ethnic groups are considered minorities but not every minority is based on ethnicity.

when you can see the obvious (minus color), the OPs statement seems to be right on, at least in my neck of the woods. SW Florida.
the toll collectors i've encountered have usually been male or female veterans (color irrelevant, vets are a classified minority)
last visit to the courthouse, from security to cashiers ... most could be considered minorities.

and, given the obvious, the OPs question is quite relevant to our 'federal budget dollars' (tax dollars - you know, OUR money) which are providing unnecessary incentives for such establishments to focus on employing minorities.
Once you understand how the purse strings apply, it makes much more sense to contemplate the effect of this gubt maneuver.
Why not pull on the public's heart strings a little?? it's worked before.

could you imagine?? the orders come down to UNemploy all these women (with babies don't ya know)
hmmm, that's your (if you're a US citizen) tax dollars at work, instead of you.

edit ~~ on a side note to the OP -- good job taking the high road and bringing this topic up for discussion. it is glossed over far tooooo frequently.

curious question ... given Our observations and the direct connection to the Fed budget, are you aware ... many (and i do mean many) of these 'employees' also qualify for Fed assistance in one form or another? in other words, they work and collect (legally) ... how's your income these days? (2nd is rhetorical question - no answer required)

reply to post by Honor93


Nice. Thanks for the honest reporting. Although as someone pointed out, it would be interesting to take a look at the upper level employees and see how it shakes out once you move up a couple levels.

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by GeminiSky
and this response is exactly why more than the OP was 'taken aback' by your opening comment.

Why would you be taken aback by a response pointing out the difference between perception and reality.

You have repeatedly stated that you believe your casual observations are proof that ethnic minorities hold most Federal and State jobs.

This, couldn't be farther from the truth.
YOU assume he 'meant' ethnic minorities, he said NO such thing. -- FAIL
Seldom does reality match or even resemble statistics, yet you seem to rely on the most manipulated, BS bunch of baloney offered to the public, today. (deny ignorance?)

your Mod status indicates to others that you have an 'open-mind', at the very least ... although, your commentary wouldn't confirm that presumption.
Now, if you'd be so kind or cooperative, please point out in the OPs opening statement where he said, inferred or assumed 'ethnic' minorities were the issue?

First off,

before anyone starts screaming racist, I'd like everyone to understand that I have nothing against any nationality, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc....

This is simply a thread detailing my observations living here in the NE United States.

We all know that some of the most stable jobs in America, are state and govt jobs. For the most part they are recession proof, offer great benefits, and are basically a job that once you get into, you are there for life, and after retirement you receive a great pension.

Simply put, it seems to me that minorities here are awarded state and govt jobs far more often that the average Caucasian.

It seems that every DMV center I go to, at least 80% of the employees are of a minority class. Every toll booth I go to, is at least 80% operated by minorities. Every post office? same thing.

Every social security office? Same thing. Almost every govt agency office that I have visited, is almost exclusively made up of employees who are of a minority class.

Now Im pretty sure that there is an equal amount of minority and non-minority applicants, in fact I would say that more non-minority class people apply for these jobs.

I have heard personal stories from acquaintances that they were turned down at a govt job, only to be replaced by a minority class employee.

My simple question is why? Where does this imbalance occur in the hiring process? Is there really an equal opportunity chance of getting hired for a state or govt job if you are say a Caucasian, and not part of a minority?

Again, my intention is not to imply that minorities are any less qualified than the rest of the population, I am simply pointing out the imbalance I see in almost every govt agency office, center, or other location.

Anyone who wants to argue otherwise, just go and stop by a DMV, SS office, Welfare office, ETC... and what you will see is that its made up of over 80% minority employees.

My simple question: Is this all just a big coincidence, or is it intentional?

Rely to post by TheWalkingFox
hmmmmm, 'think' you say? does 1/2 a century of involvement count as more than 'thinking'?
ignore the system?? -- was just a participant, today ...you?

statistics of any kind hold no water with me, try a real fact or reality ... either might sway your opinion.
of which 'facts' do you refer?
proof? definition isn't good enough for you? participating in the system isn't good enough for you? ditching the system for better isn't good enough for you? what are you, a government agent?

nah, i don't enjoy being lied to but i certainly have learned to wade through the bullshiz rather cleanly.
you can attack the reference piece until the cows come home ... it doesn't change the reality seen by many, reported by few and ignored by most.

i have a question for anyone who thinks they know. Who is NOT a minority?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Rather, those little checkboxes are used for purely statistical reasons.

Exactly ... and just where do you think the info is generated to create these supposed 'factual' statistics you seem to think are so representative??

so, in reality, you apparently believe that because 'most' ppl 'must' be checking the boxes correctly, the stats reflect that, right??? not even in a parallel universe.

so, what if the stats you rely on are based on false information??? then what?

Originally posted by Honor93
Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

You have repeatedly stated that you believe your casual observations are proof that ethnic minorities hold most Federal and State jobs.

This, couldn't be farther from the truth.
YOU assume he 'meant' ethnic minorities, he said NO such thing. -- FAIL
Seldom does reality match or even resemble statistics, yet you seem to rely on the most manipulated, BS bunch of baloney offered to the public, today. (deny ignorance?)

your Mod status indicates to others that you have an 'open-mind', at the very least ... although, your commentary wouldn't confirm that presumption.
Now, if you'd be so kind or cooperative, please point out in the OPs opening statement where he said, inferred or assumed 'ethnic' minorities were the issue?

First off,

before anyone starts screaming racist, I'd like everyone to understand that I have nothing against any nationality, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc....

Hi there,

Your response was to another poster, but please take a look at what you have said in context of the OP please, you have me confused. If you believe the OP was not referring to ethnic minorities, then which 'minorities' do you believe he was referring to and if they were not of an ethnic nature how would he be able to say 80% fell into such a bracket? As apart from gender I'm not sure how such an assessment could be made, so not sure what you are trying to say.

I won't drop to your level in the tone of your response, but you have made a very confusing statement - let me state from your post, you are saying when the OP said 'minorities' he wasn't referring to 'ethnic minorities'. This doesn't actually map to further comments made by the OP in his thread, but no matter... what 'minorities' do you think are being referred to?

Only asking out of interest.

reply to post by maria_stardust


You are one of the problems here.You want to quote useless statistics.The numbers you wanted to quote earlier in this thread were 5 to 7 years out of date.I also addressed statistics earlier in this thread.Try reading the minority people who added to this thread and agreed with the op.They work in those very jobs.All you have done here is be a disruptive force and demonstrate a lack of understanding of what the op stated in the beginning.