To All Skeptics/Critical Thinkers

Originally posted by CrazyMonkey
This is only addressed to those who are skeptical or generally critical thinkers. I put one question to you

Which case in the history of Ufology baffles or impresses you and makes you believe it warrants further investigation ?

There are many. I would like to share my own ideas on what ones I think proves study is needed on the subject, but my third issue of the ATS comic is all about that. So forgive me for just leaving it at-

There are many events worth serious consideration.

MM

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Originally posted by CrazyMonkey
This is only addressed to those who are skeptical or generally critical thinkers. I put one question to you

Which case in the history of Ufology baffles or impresses you and makes you believe it warrants further investigation ?

There are many. I would like to share my own ideas one what ones I think proves study is needed on the subject, but my third issue of the ATS comic is all about that. So forgive me for just leaving it at-

There are many events worth serious consideration.

MM

I had a brief look at ATS comics and I like the art style, I will definitely check it out some time.

Originally posted by CrazyMonkey

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
I like the thread but for me and I suspect many many others, the one we would love to see investigated more are the very one's WE have seen with our own eyes. There can be no more wanting of knowing what it was as the things we see.

I dip into both camps, I'm sceptical of EVERY post / video, you simply have to be these days but once I've seen what I want to see and heard other people break it down more I will then sway towards a state of semi belief depending on the information and factual data seen.

I know what I saw, I don't know how it did what it did, my wife knows what she saw, we both would so desperately love to know either way what it was and that for me is my most important case. I've gone over it day in day out trying to make sense of what it was, looking at every secret craft as much as posssible to see what they can do and to this day I've seen nothing man made that could do what this thing did.

If I had to pick a historical one the like most the Battle over LA just begs to be solved, it offers very credible evidence of something that's not ours over a city.

I think the important things to note are,

Did you see a solid object clearly or was it a light? If it was a light have you checked the various possibly explanations?

What was the behaviour of the object and light?

Was there any details or any unique properties you can describe regarding the light or object?

Was their any other circumstances which need to be considered? Date coinciding with any festival or events? etc..

Location?

Theres probably better questions, but I guess those are some to start with.

Sorry, bit late, had some issues here...

Nope was not a light, it was what has now become classic triangle.

The object was enormous, I've said before that you could have held up an open national news paper at arms length trying to blot the object out and you would have still seen pretty much all the edges beyond the paper.

It was solid, I know this as London has a light haze and I could not see it through this thing, it blotted out the sky..

This craft did nothing amazing, it just seemed to fly incredibly slowly towards central London from where I then lived in Walthamstow E17 3JD. The problem with the speed was that it was too slow to maintain any height as a normal craft, both my wife and I could not see how it stayed up as apart from the road noise there was no discernible aircraft noise of any kind and as we were on the flight path to Heathrow it seemed very odd.

The look was of a dark matt object with rounded sides but it didn't seem to look like it was very tall but from its position (initially above us and then moving away) it was impossible to see on top of it. It wasn't lit up with windows, the only lights we saw were one bright white / slight yellow in each corner underneath and a bright red right in the middle of the underside, none flashed, they just seemed like lights. There were no other lights above the underside unlike normal craft with red green combinations.

The craft seemed very low, I'd say it seemed similar to the sort of height Police helicopters hover when searching for people. We can't be sure, the size of the craft sort of caused it to be complicated to guesstimate.

As for events, no it was a cold clear sky, no known social events, was just an ordinary week day. Even it it had been on something like Fireworks night I'd have been very impressed, make that awestruck if I was to consider this some sort of model / blimp, it simply had none of that look and the size and free roaming nature would have made this a hell of a dangerous blimp.

But that's not what it was, this was a solid structure, whose it was I have no idea but THIS was there, we both watched it as it slowly glided beyond our visual ability to follow it.

And No, no drink, no drugs (we don't do that mugs game)..Just two people who saw something that still stuns us to this day..

I can think of a few, the three that come to mind most quickly is the chase over Iran, lights over the capital and the battle of LA. There are of course others, the stuff over the China airport last year is also interesting, never heard what that was.

Despite my criticism of the UFO encounters on ATS boards I do actually believe in UFO’s, it’s just that I also happen to think that UFO cases are not always necessarily from extraterrestrial origin. I often think that UFOlogists get confused between an “unidentified flying object” and something that may be extraterrestrial.

On ATS I think that almost all UFO accounts are lies or have a more plausible earthly explanation. The problem is that so many people are not prepared to believe the earthly explanation. I always think people on ATS are more interested in the spectacular rather than the truth, that is why the UFO forums are full of people claiming to have been contracted, abducted, seen crop circles, are the star child, have a message from the aliens, rant about reptilians and so on. All this stuff is total BS, it’s a real shame because it means that genuine stories like some of the ones being discussed in this thread get ignored because everyone is too busy talking to the new guy claiming to have a secret truth form the aliens.

This is the first UFO thread I have found in months on ATS that I like because it’s not some idiot ranting about how he has been anally probed by a gray. We need more threads on ATS discussing these UFO encounters and not the testimony of Joe the conspiracy nut from Texas.

S&F

reply to post by CrazyMonkey


it was a local radio show host who thought that this story could be important and was the only one who was not going to make fun of the family or change their story, i cannot remember his name

reply to post by kevinunknown


I don't think all those interested in UFO's automatically equate them to being alien in origin, i most definitely believe in UFO's...and when i say that i mean objects that are seemingly intelligently controlled that surpass our 'current' understanding of physics in terms of acceleration, maneuverability etc but i do not believe they are 'aliens'. In saying that i have no doubt that alien life exists in the universe simply due to the sheer size of it, but while the size of the universe works in favour of alien life existing, along with intelligent life even if extremely rare...that same positive works completely against them ever finding earth, never mind in the extremely small time frame humans have inhabited it.

Originally posted by CrazyMonkey

Any house is built on solid foundations, make sure you have solid evidence of some sort and not just here say. That is why I prefer documented mass sightings followed up with a proper investigation. Its still not 100% surefire, but at least theres some form of foundation.

Interesting analogy, well for myself unfortunately I do not have any direct experience with UFO sightings or Aliens so I cannot validate it directly other than through what you stated.

As for paranormal phenomena I do have direct experience with that, and for myself personally that counts as solid evidence, it's also the reason why i'm open to looking at UFO phenomena, and claims that ET's have psi ability as well (telepathy).

I think one of the modern UFO/alien/nwo conspiracy is Denver international air port. All the research I have conducted Is both facinating and disturbing. Any theories and input is most welcome

Helgas

Although interesting and entertaining, I think investigating old UFO sightings will get us nowhere - too many lies, rumors and speculation. I am mainly interested in recurring phenomenon like the Hessdalen lights.

Hessdalen.org

Totally disagree "he who does not remember history is bound to live through it again"

I think looking at the past can always help us in the future, if nothing else we should learn from our mistakes, not that we always do.

Helgas

Originally posted by Helgas2011
Totally disagree "he who does not remember history is bound to live through it again"

I think looking at the past can always help us in the future, if nothing else we should learn from our mistakes, not that we always do.

Helgas

I think UFOlogy is as much a joke today as it ever was, zero progress has been made by examining the old cases.

You can learn something from every case otherwise what's the point investigating them in the first place. A lot of recent documented cases have some degree of colleration with older ones which helps put overall theories together, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway no comments about Denver? Come on people!.

Helgas

Originally posted by Shikamaru
reply to post by CrazyMonkey

 

I consider myself a critical thinker, so I would have to go with the "Battle of Los Angeles" in 1942. Too many people reported that they saw something. And as slow as that object was moving, to be not shot down by all that AA fire, is a miracle in itself.

My second would have to be the infamous footage of the Pheonix, Arizona sighting of the huge triangular formation of lights over the city being taped from the hillside, in 1997. Here's some video footage for ya.

That's it.

edit on 9-2-2011 by Shikamaru because: added better video

What people saw was the continuing reflection off of the flak when being illuminated by search lights. Something you have to understand is how Anti Aircraft munitions during that time worked. Most AA was via flak guns, which when their shells exploded, would exploded launching packed in metal shrapnel everywhere. At night it would be possible for light to reflect off these pieces, and if there was enough flak in the air at any given location, it could even generate a radar return.

So all it took is one gunnery station to think they saw something, start firing flak and the chain reaction began.

war nerves strike.


You have to understand also the national climate: Pearl Harbor had been bombed, and during the course of the war the Japanese would also shell coastal cities here in the US. We had a foreign enemy able to attack our mainland, which had the entire nation in a state of nervousness.

Think about how we were post 9-11. People were scared, paranoid. Every suspicious package, every plane that even so much as veered off course a little, became national headlines as potential terrorist incidents. Terror terror terror! Its all we heard. if someone so much as even blinked the wrong way, we got scared.
Hence was borne the patriot act, and a new national paranoia of all things middle eastern. When you grasp that, you can understand how such an error could happen.

reply to post by NavalFC


Also, in addition, the phoenix lights were 100 percent shown to be flares, when the video was over-layed with the daytime video of the same, showing each light blinking out as it went behind the mountain

Originally posted by NavalFC
reply to post by NavalFC

 

Also, in addition, the phoenix lights were 100 percent shown to be flares, when the video was over-layed with the daytime video of the same, showing each light blinking out as it went behind the mountain

The second set of lights were 100 percent shown to be flares but the first set of lights were inconclusive.

Apparently they may of been light aircraft flying in formation, but other people seem so convinced that the night sky was blocked out by a far larger object.

This is one you all may of heard of before, a Costa Rican government mapping plane accidently catches something on the camera, pictures come from an offical source.

forgetomori.com...
www.karinya.com...

Originally posted by cripmeister
Although interesting and entertaining, I think investigating old UFO sightings will get us nowhere - too many lies, rumors and speculation. I am mainly interested in recurring phenomenon like the Hessdalen lights.

Hessdalen.org

I find this fascinating, but needs a lot of more research and probably explains a good percentage of possible sightings. But the behaviour of this phenomena is truly strange not say its intelligent just odd

www.hessdalen.org...


"3.7 Laser
We used the laser, and pointed it towards a flashing light, in two different cases, totally 9 times. 8 of these times, there was a reaction.
In the first case, there was a regular flashing light, slowly moving towards north, on Sunday 12 February at 7.35 pm. The flashing had been regular all the time we had seen the light. The light moved slowly. From the first time we saw it in the south, until it disappeared in the north, it took about 15 minutes. When this light was in the northern part of Finns†h›gda, we pointed the laser towards it for the first time. At once, it changed the flashing sequence: From a regular flashing light, it became a regular double-flashing light: Flash.Flash.......Flash.Flash.......Flash.Flash....... After about 10 seconds, we put the laser down, at once it became a regular single-flashing light again: Flash......Flash......Flash...... After about 10 seconds we repeated this again. It was repeated totally 4 times before it went out of sight. All the times, we got this double-flashing, when the laser was pointing at it.

The second case, the same type of light came from the north and moved towards south. It was the same day, Sunday 12 February at 8.41 pm. When the light was in the west, we pointed the laser towards it. The same thing happened now; it changed to a double-flashing light when the laser pointed towards it. This time we did it 5 times. Only the last of these times did we not get any double-flashing. But 4 of these 5 times, we got it.

The test was done like this: Kurt Persson used binoculars looking at the light. He told what he was seeing all the time; he said: "flash...flash...flash...". I (Erling Strand) used the laser. He could not see where I was pointing with the laser. When I raised the laser, pointing at the light, he said: "flash.flash.....flash.flash.....flash.flash.....". May Britt Pellving was a witness to what we were doing. There were also other persons out at that moment, but they were concentrating on their work. "

Things get even stranger

"Monday 20 February at 6.12 pm: Red light
Maybe the most "unexplainable" happening was the red light on the ground. It happened on Monday 20 February. Leif Havik was alone in the caravan. He was dressing. Åge Moe (a farmer from Hessdalen) and Edvin Kværnes (also from Hessdalen), had just arrived. They waited outside the caravan. Moe at the north side, beside the door into the caravan, and Kv'rnes at the south side. They should all go into Øyungneset, to see the lights from that place. Just when Leif went out of the caravan, a red light moved around his feet and disappeared. The duration was a few seconds. Moe said: "Look at the reflection". That was the only explanation he could figure out aat that time. Leif saw at once that it was the same type of light as from our laser. The laser we had used was at that time in Oslo.

To check if it really was the same type of light, as from our laser, we brought the laser back on 25 February. Moe had never seen a laser before. We brought him to the caravan. It was about the same time of day when we did this checking. When I put the light onto the snow, just beside our feet, Moe said: "That's exactly what I saw! But it was a little bit weaker". Then I put the light on the floor in the caravan, and he said: "It was a little bit stronger than that".

What could make such a light on the snow. It was very strong. What could it be? All the lights in the caravan had been switched off before this happened. There were no lights outside. It could not have been light from the houses. The nearest house is about 500 meters away, and it is below a hill. The nearest house you can see is 2 km away, in the south. The light showed up on the northern side of the caravan. All the houses you can see is on the southern side. And if any of the inhabitants should have a laser (very doubtful), probably the only place that person could have been, was in an airplane with no engine and with no lights. - We have not found any explanation on this light, and I don't believe we will either. In the discussion, Leif said: "If I only had put my hand above it, then I could have found out where it came from. But I didn't think of that when I saw it". A second after the light had been "switched off", they looked up in the air, but nothing was seen. It was cloudy, but just over the caravan, there was a little opening in the clouds, and there did they see the stars. "

I would love to see what is causing these lights to form and act in the unusual ways they do.

i am just beggining to learn about chemistry, biology, physics, quantam physics, and so on...the more you get into this stuff its really hard to believe that life cannont exist on other planets....the universe is massive and we are constantly re evaluating how we understand it ...Recent dsicoveries such as possible habitable planets and arsenic based life forms are two that stick out...but if you are reffering to ufos iw ould say battle of L.A and archeological claims

reply to post by cripmeister


Pretty much, the "believers" like the old cases because we cannot research them much anymore (the witnesses are dead, the pictures are old and grainy) thus allowing them to fill in the spaces with invented and fantasy information.