Change your PAST, and you will change your FUTURE!

you took a hard left and lost me, right now i have options. I can visualize you waiting right around the corner,or see you in sunny San Diego at a cool pub. Now the risk of seeing you with my phsyc in San Diego is that I only have gas money for a one way trip. If I see you around the corner then your not there when I get there you might have left the pub in San Diego.....so what I see doesnt change where you are and certainly doesnt change my credit report. My very positive attitude hasnt landed me a job from entry level to executive....finaly I like who I am and where I come from. I know full well I have to deal with the consequences of decisions of my past. I know I have to drive on. So my big $49.99 question is at any point in my paragraph did I loose anybody....haha The Alice in wonderlan story was about a debate and protest of New (quantum) Math....... facts is facts ..living in the now takes a cool head ! not a theory of what might be around the corner. this is only my opinion

reply to post by mikeybiznaz


I dare you to try and look back on your formative moments and readdress them with a new mindset.

reply to post by squandered


Interapersonal Reconstructive Theropy isnt new. Seeing things the way they are and moving on is timeless...Cio

reply to post by mikeybiznaz


Alright mate, you've made your point.

Every time I have a negative feeling, I'm like "where do you come from" and it vanishes. Being able to create a real-time effect by realising past is present gives me confidence and instead of worrying about the future like usual - because of the past, I feel it is as it's supposed to be.. leaving me much more relaxed.

This is tangible to me. It's a reality I chose to buy into.

Originally posted by squandered
reply to post by mikeybiznaz

 

Alright mate, you've made your point.

Every time I have a negative feeling, I'm like "where do you come from" and it vanishes. Being able to create a real-time effect by realising past is present gives me confidence and instead of worrying about the future like usual - because of the past, I feel it is as it's supposed to be.. leaving me much more relaxed.

This is tangible to me. It's a reality I chose to buy into.

What would you do in the event of the death of a loved one. perhaps someone very very close?
What would you do in just the *fear* of the death of someone very close to you?

First off, I have to say that this topic was one of a series of synchronicities that has been "ticklin' my fancy" for the past few days. I am a frequent lurker here and haven't posted very much due to the fact that most often, my questions are already posted by someone else. However, this topic and the theories and factors that would allow this to potentially be true, are for me, coming to a some type of convergence or unification, in my head at least. I will try and give it a shot at bringing some potential light to this amazing possibility, not that there hasn't been some truly amazing, insightful, well versed, and head scratchin' remarks that have already been shared into the ether. One thing that I must say is that I'm doing this off the cuff without a lot of prepping, so I hope that I can maintain a somewhat coherent thought-stream to be digested. I am only a laymen on any of these topics, however, I do feel that I have a unique perspective (don't we ALL) on this topic due to a series of Sober mystical experiences over the past year or so that has TOTALLY changed my whole life for the better, if not also for the infinitely weirder.
I guess I'll start with the "nut" at the center of this: Quantum Physics. Quick summary is that all possibilities and potentials already exist and are intricately intertwined with everything else. Since I believe that ALL is consciousness and we are but sentient observers within this matrix of life, then even though we, at present, cannot "see" our connection to this Consciousness of ONE, does not mean that the connection doesn't exist, or that it does for that matter. But for me, I do not doubt for a second anymore. Anyway, since all possibilities already exist, at the quantum level for hard-core scientists, and at the consciousness level for "strange cats" like myself, then why wouldn't all possibilities of life scenarios or interactions be possible as well in an infinite availability of realities. So what I've taken from this topic is that instead of changing your past, instead you are in effect, opting for a different reality. I really don't think this is really any different than what an individual does when they do "inner" work like reliving a certain event in order to view it from a different perspective and change their previously preconceived idea about said event. Even though someone may not understand that this is what they are doing, for me it makes quantum sense.
So as a person integrates various aspects of their personality, meaning that choosing a positive memory of an event over a perceived negative event, is really just integrating another aspect of yourself that the individual was previously unaware of due to their "belief" that this is the way that they were in their memory of their life story. So maybe what they are actually doing is tapping into the quantum potential of their consciousness and integrating that reality into the one that they are currently sentient in. I'm trying to convey this as best as I can but I keep having my head spin around like the chick in the exorcist, figuratively so to speak.
With that possibility stated, I'm pretty sure that many people reading this will understand what I'm about to say, at least they will on a sub-conscious level, I hope. The new age, mystical, philosophical, old age, and esoteric sciences talk about how the reality we perceive is only a projection of our subconscious and doesn't really exist "out there". I believe that this is true, to a degree, but that by fully integrating all aspects of oneself, staying in the present moment, not believing that ones past is their whole truth, and not believing any ones truth over their own, they become more conscious and are no longer projecting their sub-conscious preprogrammed imaginings onto their reality. This is why practicing mindfulness is so important in esoteric circles, in my opinion. So here is my theory of how that works and hopefully a good example to contemplate as well. I know we've all experienced what it is like to share something or some truth with someone and immediately the "wall" goes up. Even though you may feel that they would be willing to go down that rabbit hole with you, they surprise you by becoming distant, irritated, or may even seem like they didn't even hear you. I feel that that is when your consciousness is interacting with a shadow aspect of that individual, meaning that their sentient consciousness is elsewhere (another reality?) and basically you are interacting only with a sub-conscious aspect of them. Let me digress for a second. I feel that we are like those vibrating strings in string theory or like a bell that has been struck. Initially we are more like a low tone bass with a slow vibration because we are fragmented and not integrated, meaning that there are multiple aspects of myself in other realities and that creates a density that causes us to be asleep (not know who we are) but by integrating those other aspects we are collapsing that other reality of us in order to bring that aspect into our conscious awareness and wake up a little more. The more that happens, the higher the frequency that the individual operates in due to the less density from collapsing the other reality. Ok, back to where I was, hopefully. So if two sentient beings are having these deep conversations and are "grokking" it together, then both people's true consciousness is occupying the same reality. The more people that are fully integrated and conscious (i am not there by the way, yet) and operating in the same reality then their are less realities and the frequency of the earth rises as well due to the less density from having less realities to deal with. I'm going down a tangent that has been working in me for a little time now and I know how nuts it sounds but it's a "model" that I’m continually revising so I’ll end that tangent for now.
So, if you are still with me, I think that the multiple realties possibility would explain why so many people believe their truth as being THE truth. If all possibilities exist then if a conscious person or group of conscious people are occupying a certain reality together and no “un-believers” are there to project their sub-conscious disbelief into whatever it is the individual or group is doing (ie. magik or even watching bigfoot take a poo) then their truth would be whatever they consciously decided it would be. That would also explain why there isn’t any real proof of paranormal activity due to the sub-conscious observer projecting their “2 cents” into the mix.
I think I smell smoke from my brain so I’ll give it a rest for a while. If anyone is interested in anymore of my “damned hippy babble” then please pass the Buddha.

Oh here's the synchronicity that caused me to actually reply.
parallel universe

reply to post by ChaosMagician

I'm not really sure what you're asking?

Celebrate their life and the fact they lived it well.

I had some friends die and it devastated me. I think I should re-live the memory and give my respects. It's important to be at peace with death.

Originally posted by squandered
reply to post by ChaosMagician

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking?

Celebrate their life and the fact they lived it well.

I had some friends die and it devastated me. I think I should re-live the memory and give my respects. It's important to be at peace with death.

What if it was your spouse? what if it was the person you are closest to?

Some people want nothing more than to change the past... and their hands are absolutely tied no matter what they consider and to them, it's torture.

Some people want nothing more than to change the past... and their hands are absolutely tied no matter what they consider and to them, it's torture.

How would you know?
Even purely theoretically, how could you possibly know what other people among the billions on this planet are doing in the privacy of their minds and lives, or what achievements are possible to them?

Those who know - anything about any subject of such depth, I mean, not just about this - don't talk anyway.
There really are areas of human knowledge and experience where talk and action are mutually exclusive.
Words really are much more of a cage than people appear to realize.
As Heidegger said, language is the house of Being. By the same token, it can be, and is, a prison.

So, how do you know?
Think about it, because it IS relevant to this discussion.

reply to post by itsjustaride


Okay. I read all that. It was hard to read because the text was overwhelming me. I think paragraphs would have helped.

I'm fairly sure (ah ha..) that we have separate ideas, but there's a stream of consciousness that we all share.

reply to post by itsjustaride




Thanks for sharing your thoughts, though I agree that more paragraphs would have made your post easier to digest.

I like what you have to say, and I agree with it all according to my own understanding. I especially enjoyed this:

I feel that we are like those vibrating strings in string theory or like a bell that has been struck. Initially we are more like a low tone bass with a slow vibration because we are fragmented and not integrated, meaning that there are multiple aspects of myself in other realities and that creates a density that causes us to be asleep (not know who we are) but by integrating those other aspects we are collapsing that other reality of us in order to bring that aspect into our conscious awareness and wake up a little more.

The "multiple aspects" sounds much like my own idea of the self's awareness as being comparable to a multi-faceted disco ball. It is all the same ball, or the one self, but the perception and viewpoint changes with the spinning of the ball and from which facet we glimpse the reality. The faster the spin, the more that the individual facets of the ball merge into one.

reply to post by squandered


there is no reality in your words....you think you can create a reality that suites you but elaps time and traveled road = reality...one can only drive on from what was real a minute before. Remember the Clock keeps ticking. Reality is relevant to who was there and where they go from there. We can change what has happened after the fact but what did happen did happen and to think you can evolve it creats a paradox. We can be opertunistic with the circumstances, but we dont control elaps time or our future.... the definition of quantim is myth...2+2 is always 4 2x2 in always 4 there is no veriable......you will have better luck with a cliental very young, who hasnt been around the block yet....truly, have a great day

Originally posted by mikeybiznaz
reply to post by squandered

 

there is no reality in your words....you think you can create a reality that suites you but elaps time and traveled road = reality...one can only drive on from what was real a minute before. Remember the Clock keeps ticking. Reality is relevant to who was there and where they go from there. We can change what has happened after the fact but what did happen did happen and to think you can evolve it creats a paradox. We can be opertunistic with the circumstances, but we dont control elaps time or our future.... the definition of quantim is myth...2+2 is always 4 2x2 in always 4 there is no veriable......you will have better luck with a cliental very young, who hasnt been around the block yet....truly, have a great day

edit on 12-2-2011 by mikeybiznaz because: (no reason given)

That was very insulting. You don't understand what I'm talking about and you suggest that I don't understand your point of view which is nuts...

It's takes more depth then you realise to comprehend what this thread is about and I'm thinking outside the square, while you make simplistic assumptions based on a low-hum shared conscious mindset that any fool can understand.

I don't even know where to start. You don't realise that your conception of the past is flawed and inaccurate and that you are the product of this conception which you can change if you want and you should.

You will have to accept that time is not what we make of it, as the learned scientists mentioned in this thread suggest. It goes against common sense, sure, but if you open your mind you may see how the premise is quite normal. It is to me. The more I think about it, the more it seems the matter is already part of a shared consciousness which determines how we live our lives.

There is a compounding factor (talking to anyone else now) where you can go back to a formative moment that has had recurring repercussions and judge it differently. Let's say you are shy as you were ridiculed for having acne when you were a teenager. Let's imagine you re-lived these moments with a new mindset - at first taking away the panic, then not letting it impact your ego, then finding the good things etc. You can do this easily if your mediation practice is okay. You should find yourself less shy - now go back again and come back even less shy and try again, less shy again and so fourth. In this way your new 'waking' mindset enables you to make a new past using the 'new' improvements you've created for yourself.

I'm being as simplistic as I can, but actually I feel that history is present and can be changed on every level. The commonality of this principle today is like how we re-write history. This is why there are so many trolls with small minded ideas inhabiting the internet attempting to sway public thought. They want to control the past through shared consciousness.

Don't fret... but the laws of cause and affect only the truth remains (and I know how contradictory that sounds).

What I find most interesting is that your future is re-written when you change your past. If you will be going back into today, next week to rethink your perspective (of today), it already happened in the future, as it were and your perspective today is thereby is clearer - possibly blissful. If you lose faith you won't be going back and you stagnate. This is a quality people who are positive already have. This is where luck is born.

I would like to see more nay sayer's try to understand the concept rather than accept that our present moment ("moment by moment" which is all we really have) is set in stone.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Ok for those who will, here`s the first question - After reading this, sit back, close your eyes, relax, and think back to your very earliest memory, the very first, where, in the event or occurance of `what happened` you became AWARE, call it your eye-opener. It`s usually something that might have happened when we were maybe three or four (past life memories excluded for the sake of this process) and when it happened, our childlike thought in reaction may be been SOMETHING IS WRONG or SOMETHING`s WRONG WITH ME! The first memory, which produced in us, our first strong and powerful sense of self awareness.

My very first conscious awareness was a profound sense of disappointment and even shock that I was back here in this world. The way my infant mind processed that awareness resulted in a strong feeling of guilt, being convinced that I must be a very bad person.

As I spent the first 30 years of my life grounded solidly in atheism, I had nothing to which to anchor this awaerness, so the guilt had persisted throughout those earlier years.

OK, I'll now read what else you have to say. Just wanted to share this memory as it occured to me.

Thank you for sharing.

Then you must have assigned a meaning to "the world" as fundamentally a very very dangerous place to be! Is that a fair assumption, since arriving here, finding yourself here (again as you say) could be a punishment for somehow being bad, meaning that this world is a bad and nasty place, frought with peril, and it is, to a degree. The point here is that your young mind made a powerful eye-opening distinction, horrified and even guilty, for having been born into this world in the first place. I don't mean to put words in your mouth just feeding back based on what I was hearing you say, and extrapolating from that, a sense of foreboding, and issues of remorse and guilt, all under the threat of, or in the exacting of punishment, for doing SOMETHING wrong - it makes perfect rational sense from the perspective of such a being, for whom is SHOULD NOT BE what it is, and therefore >I< must be to blame at some level for this, this indignity and injustice of having to endure such hardship as this place! The poor little soul (you as a baby).

I would like to draw a distinction here if I could, and that is between what REALLY happened and the meaning extrapolated by a small child.

Now, how might you have responded to this unfortunate circumstance? Might it be possible that one way of being in response, might be timidity, and the preference for known safety, to the risks of the threatening dangers of the world that might await any further forrays into it? Any such being would shrink away from the world as a realm of possibility, and would give that up in a heartbeat to be safe and secure and whole and at peace again, if possible heading right back into the womb from which he emerged.. ?

I would now invite you to look at the whole breadth of your life to date, from that day, to this one, and ask yourself the question - is this how I've reacted to the world all my life, with a certain timidity and hesitancy and with great reluctance, thinking this life somehow a punishment for being bad. I don't know about you, and of course we all experience this in one way or another, but me if that were my predominant outlook, at least that from the perspective of a two year old baby (or maybe even younger in the case of your memory), I wouldn't risk doing ANYTHING, anything at all which might incur punishment, and risk NOTHING for the sake of highly intense life experiences. Meek, isolated, protected, safe and secure would end up being my domain. If I were such a being looking back, I might then start to notice, however painfully it might be to consider, at first, the extent and the magnitude to which this particular POV, in reaction to the reality of LIFE (which is only one possible of many many viewpoints available in this world), may have held me back, and perhaps prevented me from gaining access to a much much wider experience of life, wherein the "risks" of leaving the comfy cozy world of softness and light, might contain imbedded within them, to the contrary from all manner of punishemnt, corresponding REWARDS the likes of which were hiterto otherwise outside the realm of what is generally accessible to me, in accordance with my existing "strong suit", one of practical, extremely grounded, and highly conservative safety, denoted by an isolating lonliness and sorrow that this "safety" invariably creates.

In other words, is it at all possible that such a worldview and paradigm, while saving us perhaps from potential harm in a mean cruel world - has nevertheless resulted in a self-constraining or self-limiting way of being and of life...?

There is of course no judgement here whatsoever or making wrong here at all, let's be straight about that, these are just ideas for consideration, but if it rings true, then the implications are astounding, adn are both sad on the one hand, and, absurdly amuzing on the other, than a tiny infant could have such power to shape the course of the rest of our entire life, while preventing us from being the most fully self expressed and adventurous self possible!

Your "strong suit" in this case, of being pratical, grounded, down to earth, introverted, contemplated, quiet, humble, "meek" can now serve you to the hilt, while at the same time making accessible a new possibility as a created way of being - adventurous, willing to take risks both in life and in self expressed human relations, to be bold where before you were timid and remained silent, to lead where before you were relegated to silently following (perhaps with some resentment), to explore where before you had to remain in safety and comfort, and guilt free but risk free living.

Could this realization, if true, open anything up for a person, in spite of the fact that we're only talking here about the interpretation of a very small and innocent fragile child, who set the whole thing in motion from the get go, driving one very prominent aspect of our life as possibility (or lack thereof)?

When we get present to this - some of us are astonished, and we exclaim "this is absurd", while erupting in laughter, the child recovered and made a valuable resource and ally now!

This is "OmegaPoint Logotherapy", or a part of it anyway.

For more on this (OPLT), feel free to visit page 7 of the Alchemy Thread linked in my sig.

I'm willing to place this model, or methodology out for consideration and mutual grokking, and am here putting it to the test.

Of course your formative event will have spun out in many different directions producing in the process all manner of gifts and talents formed as your strong suit for many reasons and I would just like to see them all gifted back to you in full, you deserve everything, and I'm sure if you're like the rest of us, you've already suffered enough in this dangerous and punishing world, right?

So to run with a new way of being and thinking I would like to suggest a new mantra to replace the babies horror - "the world is what we make of it"

again don't jump on me here this isn't intended as a taking of your inventory or anything like that, just illustrating the logic or the logos of the meaning of story, and how our life story can get started and what it creates as a reaction/response wherein "that which we resit, persists". (Jung).

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by AdAstra

Some people want nothing more than to change the past... and their hands are absolutely tied no matter what they consider and to them, it's torture.

How would you know?
Even purely theoretically, how could you possibly know what other people among the billions on this planet are doing in the privacy of their minds and lives, or what achievements are possible to them?

Those who know - anything about any subject of such depth, I mean, not just about this - don't talk anyway.
There really are areas of human knowledge and experience where talk and action are mutually exclusive.
Words really are much more of a cage than people appear to realize.
As Heidegger said, language is the house of Being. By the same token, it can be, and is, a prison.

So, how do you know?
Think about it, because it IS relevant to this discussion.

edit on 11-2-2011 by AdAstra because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-2-2011 by AdAstra because: (no reason given)

Despite the fact that it should be common knowledge and common sense, I will explain anyway... I'm a person who has experienced tragedy as many people have who would like nothing more than to change the past. What do you mean "How do I know?"

I think you are trying to incite a little debate by trying to argue petty semantics but there is no need because my statement should be obvious to anyone who lives, breathes and has emotions... although some may have forgotten because they may not be experiencing a tragedy such as the loss of a close loved one at the moment.

Of course it will slip the minds of others, but to argue against it like it does not happen... like no one grieves... How can I prove that some grieve so severely that to read this thread they might even become slightly agitated in their grief.

Here's the painfully obvious thing you missed. It's a fact, people grieve and sometimes to the point where they pine themselves away. I don't need to prove it. It's proven. Done. I don't HAVE to think about and yes, it IS relevant which is why I brought it up (sounds like someone is acquainted with my tendency to call out a derailer) Who in the world would even argue about it?
I have grieved long and hard over things I wish I could change and yep... I'm talking. How about that? so it seems the question should be how do YOU know what those people are doing?

Words can be a cage at times, but that point is completely out of place here.

This is not a situation where there is something we are trying to discuss but can't because other factors... or perhaps an example of being in a situation where the only person you have to talk to about has nothing to do with the situation at all and to even try explaining it to them would be just a source of upset. There is no reason to feel that any of these simple words that either of us have said would fit into the description of talking yourself into a cage. You are trying to emulate something else you have heard from another person and trying to put it into effect to see what the result will be and you are not very good at it because you obviously didn't understand what the person was saying to begin with.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


NAM, I am amazed at your indepth exploration of my original conscious thought and how it may have influenced the course of my life.

It could have been even more accurate if I would have had the chance to clairfy the sense of guilt and what it meant to me, but regardless, it was a fine piece of analytic exposition.

My deep sense of guilt did not only have me fearing punishment, (mainly via an anticipated untimely death), but also deserving and needing it. It was a dark and shameful secret I carried within myself, the secret that I was bad and unworthy, except no-one else really knew.

I think my unconscious mind attracted people towards me who would inflict punishment on me, through physical, mental, and emotional abuse. When these obliging perpetrators were absent from my life, I then punished myself, literally.

My earlier years, especially up to age 25 or so, were spent cycling between experiencing unspeakable brutality at the hands of others, and then turning the brutality against myself by numerous suicide attempts.

I have well and truly moved on from those destructive cycles, but I do not yet fully trust my unconscious.

In any case, that initial response to finding myself in this world no doubt had a powerful influence in the way I approached life, and I can't really imagine how it would have transpired without this hidden motivator of guilt.

All the same, I am thankful for every ounce of suffering (and also joy!) that I have had to endure, not because it assuaged the sense of guilt, but because it brought me to a point of surrender.

In one of the grandest epiphanies of my life, I recall with crystal clarity how I exclaimed (within myself) that I would gladly go through such torture a thousand times over if only to experience again this one moment of true Love. (Although there have been times since when I had wished that God would not have taken my words so literally....lol)

reply to post by ChaosMagician



Semantics are "petty"? : )
I rest my case.

If, surprisingly enough to me, not even the transparent, self-explanatory surface of my post - or its tone, which was one of genuine questioning, free of every hint of verbal confrontation or provocation on a purely verbal level - if even that escapes you, it demonstrates what I was saying.
Sadly, it's not I who needs a demonstration of that.

You have no idea of the variety and depth of other people's experience.
Judging by this post - common knowledge? common sense? - it sounds like you may even be thinking that, unless something is reported by CNN or BBC or whatever, it could not possibly have a valid existence.

Not knowing is perfectly alright.
But failing to acknowledge it even to oneself leads nowhere.

Good luck to you.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by itsjustaride

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, though I agree that more paragraphs would have made your post easier to digest.

The "multiple aspects" sounds much like my own idea of the self's awareness as being comparable to a multi-faceted disco ball. It is all the same ball, or the one self, but the perception and viewpoint changes with the spinning of the ball and from which facet we glimpse the reality. The faster the spin, the more that the individual facets of the ball merge into one.

Thanks for the feedback and i completely agree with the paragraph breaks, or lack of. I really thought I posted that more clearly, I tried to go back and edit today but I cannot seem to change my past. Ouch. Puts a damper on this idea. However I have learned my lesson and I will not repeat it. Is there a way to edit for the 3rd time? It's a charm, so they say.

As for your disco ball analogy, it makes me wanna boogie all night. I like the way you think and I actually feel that you have a good way of looking at things.

Everyone else, I understand the eye strain I put out there and will give it my all to write more harmoniously in the future. Also I know that what I wrote diverged from the topic a bit but I got a little carried away since that was the first time that thought stream came out of my head. I haven't yet "consciously" experienced being able to share this kinda stuff with people I'm close to so thanks for letting me purge and tolerating my rant. I hope you ALL have a beautiful Now.

Originally posted by mikeybiznaz
reply to post by squandered

 

Interapersonal Reconstructive Theropy isnt new. Seeing things the way they are and moving on is timeless...Cio

Its not new, Its new to you and you have to put the word Quantum with it to make it mystic its not. This was hot theropy in the '80s and 90's but good for you on taking up the cause.

reply to post by itsjustaride


Please don't be sorry for the text. It was a good read. You succeeded in making it readable for the most hearty. There is good that comes from it.

I think what you wrote is great, but now you want to reform your post, great. Have you ever lost an essay to a glitch only to re-write it even better from the top of your head. Windows used to crash all the time. Anyone over 30 lived through that.. oh what trying times (I jest)

I've come to the conclusion that all that can be known, will become common sense. We only live in the moment. We are slaves to a past that isn't real at all. We overlook the power we have to create the past so we leave a hole which can be tampered with.