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What Does "Salvation" Really Mean?

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posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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I see some thinking that salvation is letting go of the ego. If so...then why is it that on the path of salvation...many are seeking rewards for the 'self/I'?

I learned alot through the path of salvation.

I learned much more on the path of offering.

One worries about the self, for the sake of self. The other, worries about the all, for the sake of Spirit.

In your heart and mind...try to walk the path Jesus walked. Learn about the offering of the earthly body in order to live for things of Spirit.

Jesus also said....to pick up your own cross...and then follow him.

Its not about just believing and accepting a free gift. He lit the road for us, showing us our own abilities and what we all must do.

For those that think its a 'free gift'...tell me, what does it mean that we will go on to do better things...that we will move mountains...that we, must pick up our own cross?

Love to all
LV




posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Soke33
Well, I am a mother. My son is in his father's image, even looks just like him...but he is not his father.

God looked and saw it was good, not perfect. I don't believe men were created perfect.

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. -Ezekiel 28.12

That was stated to the king of Tyrus, which is Satan. Man wasn't created full of wisdom.

Man and woman were created and told not to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was the first commandment, and they failed. It went downhill from there.


Are the father and son not one my sister?



8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.





Do pardon my frankness, sir. This is all discussion in love, from my perspective.

With the verses quoted to support that thought, I can only conclude that you believe man was created equal with Christ, God in the flesh.

What about this?

What is man, that Thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that Thou visitest him?
For Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands;
Thou has put all things under his feet… -Psalms 8.4-6




One is perfect because He was begotten. The rest of us are created and under His feet.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. -John 1.14


Man was obviously not created full of grace and truth, or we wouldn't be in this happenstance.

The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou at My right hand,
Until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool." -Psalms 110.1; Matthew 22.44


Not all created are His enemies. He came to save that which was lost (Matthew 18.11 &c).

I humor myself thinking that the energy converted in the lake of fire, and given new life, will be among the animals in the eternity. We earn rank, though we may not have to earn salvation.

If it has offended you that I referred to my son's daddy as his father, I apologize. However, my son and his daddy are two different entities. They are not the same, but a continuation. My son is an extension of his daddy.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Abovo
Salvation is continual existential refinement culminating in conscious submission to the Will of God. Jivanmukta is the term given to it in Hinduism. It is complete and utter disregard for self without resentment.



Beautiful wording!

It is actually very ecclesiastical.

The purity of Creation is what will survive the cleansing fire, in the man who walks under the sun.

The Book of Ecclesiastes is to the man who walks under the sun. The Hebrew name, KOHELETH, is from kahal = to call, assemble, or gather together.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Soke33
Do pardon my frankness, sir. This is all discussion in love, from my perspective.


I understand my sister. Be as frank as you need be. We are only sharing points of view. Mine is no more worthy than yours. It is simply a gift of sharing our minds one with the other.


Originally posted by Soke33
With the verses quoted to support that thought, I can only conclude that you believe man was created equal with Christ, God in the flesh.


Yes and No. I believe Man is created equal with Christ, but I do not believe Christ is God in the flesh, but rather part of God. We all are. God in the flesh is a theology from the paganistic traditions of Rome, namely the cult of Apollo which Rome used Christ to imitate.

Christ never asked to be deified.

Christ is the Son of God, so are we children of God. (Spirit)
Christ is the Son of Man, so are we children of men (flesh)
Christ is my Brother.



41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



Originally posted by Soke33
What about this?

What is man, that Thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that Thou visitest him?
For Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands;
Thou has put all things under his feet… -Psalms 8.4-6


This is a description of God's relationship with Man, all of us.


Originally posted by Soke33
One is perfect because He was begotten. The rest of us are created and under His feet.


I do not recall a scripture where Christ is making this claim. Could you provide it for me?



Originally posted by Soke33
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. -John 1.14


What is the Word? Love. Love was made flesh and Love is the glory begotten of the Father. Christ was the truest representation of Love. He loved Man so much he gave his life for him. Love is the Glory of God. We all have it within us. It hides under all the pain and suffering with have endured in this world.



Originally posted by Soke33
Man was obviously not created full of grace and truth, or we wouldn't be in this happenstance.


There is more truth in the eyes of a newborn than in the mouth of the eldest sage. Love IS the truth.



Originally posted by Soke33
The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou at My right hand,
Until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool." -Psalms 110.1; Matthew 22.44


Is this how Christ taught to treat your enemies? Why would such a passage be attributed to Christ?



Originally posted by Soke33
Not all created are His enemies. He came to save that which was lost (Matthew 18.11 &c).


Who did Christ consider his enemies? What did Christ command be done to his enemies?



Originally posted by Soke33
I humor myself thinking that the energy converted in the lake of fire, and given new life, will be among the animals in the eternity. We earn rank, though we may not have to earn salvation.



8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.




Originally posted by Soke33
If it has offended you that I referred to my son's daddy as his father, I apologize. However, my son and his daddy are two different entities. They are not the same, but a continuation. My son is an extension of his daddy.


There is no need to apologise my sister. I take no offence of anyone. Your son is indeed a continuation. I am the continuation of Adam, just as Christ, just as you. We are not the same, but of the same spirit, the divine breath of God which gives all life.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM



Originally posted by Soke33
With the verses quoted to support that thought, I can only conclude that you believe man was created equal with Christ, God in the flesh.


Yes and No. I believe Man is created equal with Christ, but I do not believe Christ is God in the flesh, but rather part of God.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. -John 1.1

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. -John 1.14


If the Word was God, It is still God, in any form.

Saying, “We give Thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, Which art, and wast, and art to come; because Thou hast taken in Thee Thy great power, and hast reigned…” -Revelation 11.17



Originally posted by IAMIAM
Christ never asked to be deified.

Christ is the Son of God, so are we children of God. (Spirit)
Christ is the Son of Man, so are we children of men (flesh)
Christ is my Brother.



When God stated, “Let Us make man in Our image,” He included Himself. That is Who Christ is, God Himself, and it is emphatic throughout His entire Word.


Originally posted by IAMIAM

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


In quoting these verses in this context, we find ourselves with me asking you a question you asked me earlier in the discussion.


Originally posted by IAMIAM
Are you saying there is something impure in God that must be purified in this life?




Originally posted by Soke33
What about this?

What is man, that Thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that Thou visitest him?
For Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands;
Thou has put all things under his feet… -Psalms 8.4-6



Originally posted by IAMIAM
This is a description of God's relationship with Man, all of us.


That is a description of God’s relationship with mortal man, yes. Christ was not a mortal man. I believe I have shown my belief of that with the above replies; mortal = liable to die. Do you believe that God is liable to die?

“…God is Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” -John 4.24

How does one worship another equal to themselves? He must be exalted. We cannot see ourselves equal with Him and remain humble before all the power and glory that is His.


Originally posted by IAMIAM


Originally posted by Soke33
One is perfect because He was begotten. The rest of us are created and under His feet.


I do not recall a scripture where Christ is making this claim. Could you provide it for me?


I quoted it in in a former response:

The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou at My right hand,
Until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool." -Psalms 110.1; Matthew 22.44


This is a plan of action. (In the original language) YHVH said to Yehoshua, Jesus, to sit at HIS right hand. The Messiah is at HIS right hand.


Originally posted by IAMIAM
Why would such a passage be attributed to Christ?


While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Saying, “What think ye of Christ? whose Son is He?”
They say unto Him, “The Son of David.”
He saith unto them, “How then doth David in spirit call Him Lord, saying,
‘The LORD said unto My Lord, ’Sit Thou on My right hand, till I make Thine enemies Thy footstool?’ ’
If David then call Him Lord, how is He his Son?”
And no man was able to answer Him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask Him any more questions. -Matthew 22.41-46



Originally posted by IAMIAM
He loved Man so much he gave his life for him.


We agree on this. That is because only God in the flesh could be the Lamb without blemish, for sacrifice for the sins of the world.

THE LORD is my strength and song,
And is become my salvation.
The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous:
The right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
The right hand of the LORD is exalted:
The right hand of the LoRD doeth valiantly.
I shall not die, but live… -Psalms 118.14-17



Originally posted by IAMIAM
Love IS the truth.


The Word is God; God is Truth; Truth is Love; God is Love. They all go together.

We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth. -III John 8



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Soke33
 


Thank You Soke 33



Solomon is one of my favorite characters in scripture.



Regards



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Soke33
 


It seems that the only point of contention between us my sister, is whether or not Christ IS God or not. I see it as idolatry to claim such, but that matter is not of such significance to come between us. It is more important to keep the commandments of Christ for that is what leads to the healing the world needs in these troubling times.

So, as to not divert the topic further off course, I will yield the point. It matters not what God is called to me, God is far too great to embody any name, it is the idea, the knowing, love that matters.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by Soke33
 


It seems that the only point of contention between us my sister, is whether or not Christ IS God or not. I see it as idolatry to claim such, but that matter is not of such significance to come between us. It is more important to keep the commandments of Christ for that is what leads to the healing the world needs in these troubling times.

So, as to not divert the topic further off course, I will yield the point. It matters not what God is called to me, God is far too great to embody any name, it is the idea, the knowing, love that matters.

With Love,

Your Brother




I assumed you are Christian. That is my fault, and I apologize.

I believe God is far too great not to have His Name in His world.

I agree we will leave it here.

In Love,
Soke



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Soke33
I assumed you are Christian. That is my fault, and I apologize.

I believe God is far too great not to have His Name in His world.

I agree we will leave it here.

In Love,
Soke


No need to apologise my sister, I do not consider it an insult. I probably should have made it clear in my position to avoid the confusion. It is I who owes you an apology for any perceived deception.

I am not a Christian, just a follower of Christ. He is a teacher to me, and my relationship is more akin to a Brother.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Soke33

Originally posted by cluckerspud
Salvation is short term for me.
Like right now my salvation would be to find more work to pay my rent that just went up.
I generally don't look at it in such a large way as to include my whole life.
I live day to day. And right now, I am financially shot.
HELP ME LORD GEEBUS CHRIST!!!!!
SEND MY LANDLORD A CHECK!!



Gee.

I wonder if He will answer that prayer.


Er, my guess would be no, because cluckerspud got His name wrong... proving himself not to be one of Jesus' established friends...
Vicky



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM
[I am not a Christian, just a follower of Christ. He is a teacher to me, and my relationship is more akin to a Brother.



His prinicples are a great place to look for answers!

We'll keep following, as best we can, brother.




posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by Soke33

Originally posted by cluckerspud
Salvation is short term for me.
Like right now my salvation would be to find more work to pay my rent that just went up.
I generally don't look at it in such a large way as to include my whole life.
I live day to day. And right now, I am financially shot.
HELP ME LORD GEEBUS CHRIST!!!!!
SEND MY LANDLORD A CHECK!!



Gee.

I wonder if He will answer that prayer.


Er, my guess would be no, because cluckerspud got His name wrong... proving himself not to be one of Jesus' established friends...
Vicky



Giving a couple of lines to laugh with you...


Nice to meet you, Vicky.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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God creates each moment perfect, each moment fresh and new and perfect.
Only a human mind can say it is not perfect. What is wrong with right now unless you think about it?
God gave us all this and we have the audacity to say it is not good enough.
See that this is all there is and that desire for more is the root to all unhappiness and suffering.
Salvation is the end of belief in thoughts. Thought gives up and goes quiet. The stillness and peace left behind is what you really are. The noisy chattering mind is constant but what hears the chatter?


edit on 31-1-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
God creates each moment perfect, each moment fresh and new and perfect.
Only a human mind can say it is not perfect. What is wrong with right now unless you think about it?
God gave us all this and we have the audacity to say it is not good enough.
See that this is all there is and that desire for more is the root to all unhappiness and suffering.
Salvation is the end of belief in thoughts. Thought gives up and goes quiet. The stillness and peace left behind is what you really are. The noisy chattering mind is constant but what hears the chatter?


This existence IS Perfect my friend. However, we have made it imperfect by our judgements of one another and our choice to sit still while others suffer. What are YOU doing to help those who do not see it as perfect? Telling them to just ignore their suffering is cold and hateful. We are here to enjoy this world and end each others suffering.

Feed a child by thinking it my friend. Replace the loved one taken by war by thinking it. Give liberty to the imprisoned by thinking it. Do these things, then I will know your thoughts are pure. If they do not lead to love which leads to action to help others end their suffering, then I know your doctrines are not for me.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


There is something to be learned from a rainstorm, when meeting with a sudden shower. You try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. By doing such things as passing under the eves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you will still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to all things. -Hagakure



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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Disobedience to God is our sin. Because of disobedience of Adam and Eve to God they died. This sin went over from parents to children. It is to be saved from death as to live eternaly and to be forgiven for your sins.
edit on 2011/2/1 by etherical waterwave because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 



Some say salvation comes only through "believing on The Lord Jesus Christ".
But what does this mean exactly?


From a biblical standpoint "salvation" is spoken of in three tenses, past, present, and future. One who is born again can legitimately say "I have been saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved." It's called the 3 P's of salvation.

1. I have been saved from the PENALTY of sin by the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary.
2. I am being saved on a daily basis from the POWER of sin in my life by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit and the regeneration of my mind by the Word of God.
3. I will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin in my body when I am given a resurrected one.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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The story of Adam and Eve is about when our consciousness changed. Before we were like the animals, not aware of ourselves. Imagine that animals can think, but humans can think about their thinking, so can judge the thoughts in a dualistic way, good/bad, right/wrong, etc. Therefore, before Adam and Eve there was really no sin, the word sin did not exist. The word sin is a concept, before the word, there could be no sin. This is why they no longer lived in paradise, yet they still lived in the garden of Eden. We still live in the garden of Eden. However, because we have the audacity to judge Gods beautiful creation, we no longer live in paradise.
We are all searching for the paradise lost, it is here always



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


There existed sin before Adam and Eve committed it. You're forgetting Lucifer and 1/3 of the stars of heaven fell between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Before the word there was nothing. No animal can sin, because animals do not have the words to speak so they can not say 'i am bad'. Only humans can do this, because we have language, words and thought.
The media, the television put on programs to program the mind, which is a great system for control. The organized religions tell us we are sinners and it is believed. Jesus and Buddha's message was that you are perfect and whole right now. Christ is not the surname of Jesus. Christ is christ Consciousness. It's all about consciousness. The message Jesus tried to deliver, but the ptb took over the message , it got lost and manipulated along the way. Then used to make us feel unworthy. Unworthy, scared and easy to control.
edit on 1-2-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



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