What Does "Salvation" Really Mean?

Originally posted by cluckerspud

Originally posted by Soke33


Gee.

I wonder if He will answer that prayer.

Pretty fuggin cool if he did. I'd convert.

I truly am sorry you are having a rough time.

I suggest that you ask Him privately, using His real Name.

I will say a prayer for you.

Originally posted by Soke33
Another gentleman with a big heart on this site...how refreshing!

I am happy to oblige my sister!

Originally posted by Soke33
No, that is not what I am stating at all. The spirit was breathed into man, "and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2.7)

The living souls of men corrupt their own spirit.

I think I am closer to understanding, but I am still lost on how Man corrupts his own spirit from your point of view. Here is my thoughts on the matter.

Man is born perfect. He is a spark of this divine being. The spark that animates the flesh is good.

What corrupts that spark is what happens to it after birth. It mimics what it receives. If it is born into a life of pain and misery, then it lashes out and seeks to harm its own flesh or those around it. It does the evil it has learned to do.

Which is why you cannot battle evil with evil, but must confront it with goodness, love.

Would you agree?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Can I ask what makes you believe that man is born perfect?

No verse rings a bell.

Originally posted by Soke33
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Can I ask what makes you believe that man is born perfect?

No verse rings a bell.

My apologies sister.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Soke33
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Can I ask what makes you believe that man is born perfect?

No verse rings a bell.

My apologies sister.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

With Love,

Your Brother

Well, I am a mother. My son is in his father's image, even looks just like him...but he is not his father.

God looked and saw it was good, not perfect. I don't believe men were created perfect.

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. -Ezekiel 28.12

That was stated to the king of Tyrus, which is Satan. Man wasn't created full of wisdom.

Man and woman were created and told not to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was the first commandment, and they failed. It went downhill from there.

Originally posted by Soke33
Well, I am a mother. My son is in his father's image, even looks just like him...but he is not his father.

God looked and saw it was good, not perfect. I don't believe men were created perfect.

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. -Ezekiel 28.12

That was stated to the king of Tyrus, which is Satan. Man wasn't created full of wisdom.

Man and woman were created and told not to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was the first commandment, and they failed. It went downhill from there.

Are the father and son not one my sister?

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

I know the difference between being perfect and acting perfect. Please do not mistake me for arrogant or a wild boaster.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


LOL! Read my original post again... I don't think you're getting it. Try to think outside your box IAMIAM. Read the words as they are without looking for some deeper/hidden meaning. There is no subtext or room for interpretation, so please, don't create that which doesn't exist.

Cheers!

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

LOL! Read my original post again... I don't think you're getting it. Try to think outside your box IAMIAM. Read the words as they are without looking for some deeper/hidden meaning. There is no subtext or room for interpretation, so please, don't create that which doesn't exist.

Cheers!

IRM

I have re-read your post my friend, yet the meaning seems to remain the same.

Salvation is the lever.. the dangling carrot that controls the thoughts and actions of those who accept without question... or fear to question. It's the post life insurance policy that allows the church to empty the pockets of the fearful living. I don't expect those suffering from spiritual Stockholm Syndrome to agree with me. Why would they right! The beauty of brainwashing is that the victim is not cognitive of such, thus everything seems perfectly normal to them, and they will fight tooth and nail to protect the very system that has enslaved their minds.

To you salvation is a lever, a dangled carrot by which the church fleeces its congregation.

I do not agree with you on the meaning of salvation. I do not belong to a church. However, if that is what the word means to you, I would prefer to know what word means to you to heal one another through love and kindness. If that word causes such an offence, then I would not want to mistakenly use it in future conversations with you. That was the meaning behind my post.

Am I still missing something? If I am, I will need some clarification as we seem to have our meanings lost in translation.



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Am I still missing something? If I am, I will need some clarification as we seem to have our meanings lost in translation.

Who is this 'I' that may be missing something?

What exactly is 'I' ?

Originally posted by dominicus
Who is this 'I' that may be missing something?

What exactly is 'I' ?

I is not you, we, nor us. I is me unless it is you using I, then I is no longer me.



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by cluckerspud


Is there's anyone reading this with lots of money, please PM this person in need and there it is, one convert for the Lord.

Salvation is continual existential refinement culminating in conscious submission to the Will of God. Jivanmukta is the term given to it in Hinduism. It is complete and utter disregard for self without resentment. This usually takes many lifetimes to accomplish but all progress made is cumulative. This consciousness is symbolically depicted in Job 33:16-20.

It's hell getting there and few are they who not only find it but are able to maintain it.



Peace

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are


It's simple.

The more at peace you are with yourself and the world around you, the more favored you are by God.

That is a fact, and it is technically all that matters.

Let the peace of the Lord be with you.

Religion has only been mankind's primitive attempt to explain how we are all connected to "the source." I feel we were taught certain actions are considered sin only because those sinful actions can disrupt peace within the community.

Mankind has been around alot longer then the Bible, and mankind will still be around when this organized religion is over. Religion will again evolve into something more meaningful and profound, just like it did when it evolved into the current religions. Alot of people have a very hard time grasping the idea that this never-ending universe is far more complex then their personal ego's, and that religions are nothing more then man attempting to understand it.

Instead of holding onto your ego for dear life, just let go and accept that we’re apart of something that our primitive minds can never truly understand.

Letting go of ego is complete meaning of "Salvation."

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

 

It's simple.

The more at peace you are with yourself and the world around you, the more favored you are by God.

That is a fact, and it is technically all that matters.

Let the peace of the Lord be with you.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

 

It's simple.

The more at peace you are with yourself and the world around you, the more favored you are by God.

That is a fact, and it is technically all that matters.

Let the peace of the Lord be with you.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.

I did not say righteous, I said favored.

There is a difference.

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

 

It's simple.

The more at peace you are with yourself and the world around you, the more favored you are by God.

That is a fact, and it is technically all that matters.

Let the peace of the Lord be with you.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.

I did not say righteous, I said favored.

There is a difference.

Thank God!

Originally posted by IAMIAM

To you salvation is a lever, a dangled carrot by which the church fleeces its congregation.

I do not agree with you on the meaning of salvation. I do not belong to a church. However, if that is what the word means to you, I would prefer to know what word means to you to heal one another through love and kindness. If that word causes such an offence, then I would not want to mistakenly use it in future conversations with you. That was the meaning behind my post.

I guess the easiest way to avert confusion is to say that in my opinion salvation does not exist any more than the leprechauns gold at the end of the rainbow. The word is hollow. There is nothing to be saved for. I do believe we are judged at the end of our lives for who we were, but not by some deity/higher power. It comes from our family, partners and peers. Those whose lives we have touched. Only once something is completed can we know what it is...

We leave our legacies, good or bad, right or wrong, in the land of the living. Do I want the world be a better place when I die than when I was born? Yes!

My actions in life are dictated by what I can and can't live with. I am a person of conscience. That means that I try to always do the right thing by other people. I help others wherever I can and never shy at the opportunity to do so... yet I do not have a religious bone in my body.

One does not need the threat of eternal damnation or the promise of salvation to do good. Either you're that type of person, or you're not. We are defined by nature, nurture and being the best we can be. The fact that I do not require a pay-off at the end of my life for doing good deeds probably makes me more spiritual than most religious people. Especially the 3 religious haters that foe'd me since my first post in this thread for having an independent standpoint. You know who you are and it speaks volumes.

I believe that you do not belong to a church because to me, you don't appear to have a hateful bone in your body and your posting is always consistent with your core beliefs. For that you should be commended.

I'm not totally sure why you feel we need to 'heal' each other. To me, that suggests that we are all 'sick' or defective by default. Love is something that either comes naturally or not. It is not a word or a platitude, nor can it be forced. If it were, it would be disingenuous. Enter religion yet again! Do it... or else!

Our world and the people who live in it are far to varied to acheive conformity or consensus. Therefore I live, and let live. However I will always defend myself against those who seek to do otherwise. A once religious friend of mine told me that when he went door knocking to spread the good word, he never felt like he was saving them; he felt like he was saving himself. I will close my post with that little nugget.

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I'm not totally sure why you feel we need to 'heal' each other. To me, that suggests that we are all 'sick' or defective by default. Love is something that either comes naturally or not. It is not a word or a platitude, nor can it be forced. If it were, it would be disingenuous. Enter religion yet again! Do it... or else!

My friend,

Thank you for providing clarity as to your meaning. I understand your position much better and I will try to provide equal clarity to you as to mine. Do people need to be saved? Absolutely!

I have had the pleasure of knowing people from all walks of life. I have associated, known, and loved the high and the low and there is one thing that serves as the dividing line between them all. This divide is judgement.

Mankind has created this false system of judgement whereby some are found worthy enough to live a life of heaven and others are condemned to a life of hell. What separates the two is whether or not they conform to the expectations of the system. Those that conform rise to the top and live a life of bliss, those who do not are tread under foot and thrust into a world of torment and pain. Both ends of the spectrum commit attrocities against each other. Those at the top subjugate those at the bottom, and those at the bottom rebel against even their own flesh in search of liberty and justice. Neither the high nor the low are seeing this world without the blinders of their station. Neither can see each other for who they are, perfect beings equal before God.

It is this system of iniquity that is the source of our troubles in this world. It is the wounds caused by this system which salvation is to heal Mankind from.

How do we as a species feel about ourselves? Do we see ourselves as perfect beings? We have been mislead to think otherwise. Christ came to teach that we are perfect and should treat each other as such. His teachings were usurped by those in power and corrupted to become another system of Judgement. Even those who follow in his name cannot see the truth of his teachings that they ARE perfect! They are ashamed! They are ashamed and judgmental of what GOD has created. Who is Man to judge God's work? What arrogance, what foolishness.

So, do I see a need for salvation? Absolutely! Mankind must be saved from his erroneous judgements. It is causing great pain to my Brothers and Sisters. You may have escaped the cycle and ignore the judgements of man. I am pleased for you my friend, but others are not so fortunate. Others are suffering under burdens they should not bear. Salvation is for them!

Salvation is seeing everyone as perfect, loving them as if they are perfect, and teaching them by example to love others as if they are perfect, and it is very necessary in this day and age. Failure to do so will result in us judging each other to our own destruction.

With Love,

Your Brother

Perennial Philosophy and Christianity

"Traditionally, Christianity has been considered hostile towards the concept of perennial philosophy. To most Christians, their religion is the one true faith and is either exclusive or inclusive. That’s is to say that either, anyone who is not of the Christian faith is denied salvation, or, those who are ignorant to Christianity will still be able to obtain salvation if they embrace the Christian faith. However, perennial philosophy asserts that Christianity is only one of many religions, all of which are true faiths, and that non-Christians can achieve salvation without Christianity. This assertion has appeared to most Christians as heretical and contrary to their faith. However, the purpose of religion is to provide salvation to as many people as possible. People can only take their faith seriously and without question if they are assured that their religion is the best, if not only, way to attain salvation and reach God.

Therefore these claims are not surprising, as providing salvation takes precedence over interfaith dialogue within Christianity as well as the religions of the world. However, considering that all religions originate from the universal truth, evidence of this underlying truth can be found in the most essential principles and doctrine of each religion. The most essential principle of Christianity is the concept of Christ. Christians who oppose perennial philosophy and believe Christianity to be the one true faith often quote Christ to support their position, often quoting John 14:6 “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me”[12] This is interpreted as proclaiming that anyone who has not accepted Christianity will be denied access to God and salvation. However, according to the Nicene Creed, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, and, “of one being with the Father.” In accordance with this most essential Christian doctrine, it is impossible to refute that there is only one Son of God, or that this son is responsible for the salvation of humanity, or even that Jesus of Nazareth was that son.

However, there is no Biblical or dogmatic foundation to support the belief that the Son of God has limited his responsibility for the salvation of humanity to his incarnate presence as Jesus of Nazareth. As stated in John 1:14, the Son of God, “became flesh and dwelt among us.”[13] Even during his time on Earth, the Son of God was not limited to, or restricted by his body. Therefore the concept of the Son of God, as an eternal source of salvation, can be found throughout the world religions. James S. Cutsinger writes, “Though truly incarnate as Jesus Christ in Christianity, he is salvifically operative in and through non-Christian religions as well. In some he is present in an equally personal way, as in Krishna and the other Hindu avatars, in whom he was also ‘made man’, while in others he appears in an impersonal way, as in the Qur’an of Islam, where he made himself book.” [14] St. Augustine said: "That which we today call Christian religion also existed among the ancients, and has not been absent amongst humankind from the time of its origin up to the time that Christ became flesh; true religion, which had already existed, began then to be called Christian"."