It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The teachings of Christ are logically, intelligently, undeniably the Truth. Test it!

page: 10
27
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 11:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by ripcontrol
Well I have a simple line of thought for the OP...

I can prove Jesus was sinner...

can you disprove that he was not a sinner


You are correct, that was a simple line of thought.

With Love,

Your Brother




posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 12:53 AM
link   
reply to post by ripcontrol
 

Hi Ripcontrol,


I can prove Jesus was sinner...

How so?


can you disprove that he was not a sinner

What is your definition of sinner or sin?

Love & Best Wishes!



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 01:14 AM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 

Hi IAMIAM,


I appreciate that you are enjoying the discussion my friend,

Haven't read the entire discussion just yet but getting around to it.


but I cannot take credit for work that belongs to Christ.

It's clear that you're humble and not seeking credit for any of Christ's teachings.


The words here are his, and the work represented are his.

Christ himself would not take credit for the Good word of truth and that which was shared IS the same Light truth eternally shared and understood by those who've eternally seen. Truth is never anyone's to claim, own or keep but is given freely to all as the Sun gives it's Light unto the world freely and unconditionally without judgment or prejudice.


With Love,

Your Brother

Always with Love Eternally,

Best Wishes!



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 03:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by naeem11111
 



Jesus didn't die for us, he brought his own destruction, thats what happens when you are challenging Rome and creating your little "plot." No one asked him to die for us and if the five kings weren't present he would have reacted differently at his cruxifiction.


He died for 'challenging Rome'?? That's interesting, Pontious Pilate didn't find any fault with Jesus.


Actually, he challenged the Sadducees and Pharisees. Here's a really good quote for you: "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 03:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IAMIAM
 



I do not believe Jesus performed any miracles, but that the miracles were nothing more than his teachings in action. The tales may have been exaggerated a little but they all have a perfectly reasonable explanation if you learn what Christ taught.


Absurd a hostile source, the Talmud, likewise records Jesus's miracles as well but attributes them to Him being a crafty "magician" rather than the Son of God.


Where you there? Did you see the miracles?

Whether he performed miracles or not his message was true. Furthermore, stage magicians have already replicated the "Miracles" of Christ, yet NO ONE has replicated his message, that we are all Children of God. That was his greatest miracle.

With Love,

Your Brother


Oh yes, Brother, you are right. Very few people discern his mission here of teaching us that we are all Children of God. He is the example for us to follow, saying "my Father" "The Father in me" "I go unto my Father" etc. but still people dont get it. Even they say it in prayer, "Our Father who art in heaven", but instead say Jesus is God, and deny the Christ flame in themselves and all of us. Jesus explicitly stated his relationship to God, as that of the Son, and somehow the message got twisted to hes the ony one and is God. God the Father (Creator Brahma), God the Son(the Preserver Visnu), God the Holy Spirit( the Destroyer of evil Shiva)
Peace



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 12:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by naeem11111
 


It what you say were true then why didn't Pilate find any fault with Jesus?



Jesus, the so called "son of God," refused to answer Pontius Pilate when the Roman governor asked him directly whether or not he was the king of Isreal.


At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and the teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67 “If you are the Messiah,” they said, “tell us.” Jesus answered, “If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68 and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.” 70 They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You say that I am.” 71 Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips.”


Why not just give them a direct answer, rather he is trying to avoid answering the question.

-Naeem



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 01:06 PM
link   
reply to post by naeem11111
 


Pilate was not present at the Jewish council that tried Jesus. This happened before Christ was presented to Pilate. There is however, a record of the trial before Pilate himself:

"Then said Pilate to the chief priests and [to] the people, I find no fault in this man."

If what you claim is true, that Jesus "was a threat to Rome", then why does Pilate state the exact opposite at Jesus's trial?


edit on 22-2-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 01:40 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Jesus of Nazareth did not give out a direct answer when asked if he is King of Isreal, he cunningly avoids answering it. The Emperor appoints Kings not people themselves, therefore he was commiting treason.
edit on 22/2/2011 by naeem11111 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 01:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by naeem11111
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Jesus of Nazareth does not give out a direct answer when asked if he is King of Isreal, he cunningly avoids answering it. The Emperor appoints Kings not people themselves, therefore he was commiting treason.


Moot point. You stated Jesus was killed because He was a threat to Rome. However, the Roman authority present at His trial states that he found "no fault" with Jesus.

How was Jesus simultaneously a threat to Rome and not a threat to Rome? Your assumption violates the Law of Non-Contradiction, therefore it is false.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 02:13 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


The trial of Jesus was brief. He had led an armed revolt against Rome and had called himself the King of the Jews. Pilate ordered his crucifixion, along with all the other rebels who had been captured.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 02:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by naeem11111
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


The trial of Jesus was brief. He had led an armed revolt against Rome and had called himself the King of the Jews. Pilate ordered his crucifixion, along with all the other rebels who had been captured.


Jesus never lead an armed revolt against Rome, that's a lie. Secondly, Jesus never called Himself the "King of the Jews". The two instances this phrase is used in the gospels is when the magi ask King Herod "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him". And the second instance is when Pilate asks Jesus "Are you the king of the Jews?", and Jesus doesn't affirm He is, He states "You have said so".

There is no claim made by Jesus that He is the "King of the Jews", that also is a lie. Jesus didn't lead an armed revolt against Rome, and Jesus did NOT claim He was the "King of the Jews", both statements you've made are incorrect.

Jesus was not killed because He was a "threat to Rome." Jesus was reluctantly put to death by Pilate at the demand of the High Priest because Jesus made the claim to be God in the flesh, blasphemy to the Jews. In the text itself we can plainly read that Pilate found "no fault" with Jesus.

It was a murder.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 02:45 PM
link   

8When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid; 9And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. 10Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. 12And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.


Where Christ rebelled against Rome was in teaching people to be their own King, to give what Caesar gave them back and take care of themselves.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 03:40 PM
link   


reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
And the second instance is when Pilate asks Jesus "Are you the king of the Jews?", and Jesus doesn't affirm He is, He states "You have said so".

Why was he then trying to avoid answering the question, its a simple "yes I the king of the Jews" or " no, I am not the King of the Jews," and this wasn't the first time he did this.



There is no claim made by Jesus that He is the "King of the Jews", that also is a lie.


"And on the next day, a great multitude that was come to the festival day, when they had heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, "Hosanna, blessed be the king of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord, peace in heaven and glory on high."



"And Jesus found a young ass and sat upon it, as it is written: Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold thy King cometh, sitting on an ass' colt."




Jesus didn't lead an armed revolt against Rome, and Jesus did NOT claim He was the "King of the Jews", both statements you've made are incorrect.


"Do you see that we prevail nothing? Behold, the whole world is goes after him."



"And they found not what to do to him, for all the people were very attentive to hear him."


When the rebellion was occuring a few skirmishes took place including Simon.

Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it, and struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And the name of the servant was Malchus."




It was a murder.


It was a man called Jesus of Nazareth, who tried to create his own little plot, which failed in the end.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 03:41 PM
link   
It is true, what Yeshua said, Pilate had no power over him unless given from above.

Now you need to put your thinking caps on, but this really depends on the eyes of light, and what a person who like me, has gone through, with regards to family abductions and things from childhood. And then higher ups monitoring and curtailing activities.

The negative forces offworld and in this world, have no power over positive love filled people. The dark has no power over the light and may not harm someone unless it is something that was pre-arranged that they need to go through for their ultimate progression or for others.

But we have to be very careful, also, there is a law of consequence, and this doesn't mean that jumping off a cliff, gravity isn't going to work, that we should throw pearls before the swine, or basically flaunt the rules around us without strong inner direction because martyrs do happen. So its about working for awarness and waking people up, and seeking direction. Its always about seeking direction and to overcome all the flaws and blindness, our own cup that is full so to speak, and humbly, asking for healing.

Now this can go into the sacrifice of his life that he gave, that traditionally is to free us, to remove our sins, or this is how the traditional church's see this. That he is the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

However, they put an innocent man, someone pure with love, to death. The negatives think they own this planet, that its there real estate. They are like demigods running this winterland, higher hellzone type school.

But this school was never meant to be like that. It is a highly interactive holographic, simulated reality school, where the law of consequence or affinity, draws to us, what our state of being, mind, allows. We're giving permissions.

So naturally, if everyone was more like Jesus, we would have the forces of Good in the cosmos and from the Heavenly realms beyond the veil, helping and assisting us, and this world be an eden state.

When they broke the law of consequence and put an innocent man to death, if they had ever imagined they had any ownership rights or contracts (you know the devil traditionally shows up with a legal contract and wants you to sign on the dotted line) over this planet or to the souls here who are less than perfect and fall into the traps here, (who by the way our bloodlines have sold off, sold out humanity to the negative entities they channel stargate in and have everything coded to saturn "ie will you give your heart to Jesus, meaning ot the Sun, but not our sun, no it means the dark star or statan, so forth and so on....." everything is twisted ot saturn/satan. They have the gnostic Logos/demigods, and surprise surprise, so do companies, trading your vote of yes for spending the dolllar to their Logo. Wars, starvaton...the list never ends....)well the contracts were broken forever when they did act out of the unverisal law, they have no ownership. The slaves need to wake up to love, for they are free.

That is another thing a person can see looking into it, in any case, it was about freeing us, and conquering all the illusions here, including death itself, and though the legalistic things were nonsense, it was like an Adult overseeing a bully trying to tell a kindergarden student that he signed the contract so he owes up, and the Teacher/Adult knows very much differently, but instead enters the game to free the minds of everyone here.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 03:59 PM
link   
reply to post by naeem11111
 


So other people called Jesus the King of the Jews? But that's not what you said, you said Jesus claimed to be the King of the Jews. Jesus never made that statement. You also said Jesus "led" an armed revolt, that's not true either. So what if Peter uses his sword, Jesus tells him to put his sword "away".

Both of your statements are complete fabrications. But that's all smoke and mirrors, you originally said Jesus was killed because He was a "threat to Rome". This is demonstratively false because Pilate declares that he found "no fault" with Jesus.

Everything you've asserted has been false so far.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 04:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by naeem11111
It was a man called Jesus of Nazareth, who tried to create his own little plot, which failed in the end.


What do you know of the end my friend? Have you the divine right to set the mark where by God himself counts time? No, you have no concept of the end. Christ's death was not the end of the plot, it was the beginning.

Watch.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:10 PM
link   
Yeshua demonstrated unconditional love and to a degree that it activates recognition in many hearts, drawing us to the Truth and profound teachings, there is no greater lesson of unconditional love, but also the way of the mystic, as in Matthew 13, where he says plainly that the world has choked out with its many affairs, concerns, stresses, like weeds, the good seed in many and that we are blind and cannot hear the truth. But adds, to turn within and pray for healing, and then it would be done.

Many of us recognize this is the best example of how to live our lives given in this world, and the way to pass the tests, it wouldn't even matter who he was, but rather how he lived.

Yet so often people attack the messenger and ignore the message. Its the teachings that matter the most here. Because so great love is demonstrated by his message that it would hardly matter, but that we feel the Love and Good, we feel the Spirit of Peace and Love which is the Spirit of Christ, in the accounts of his life in his words and his examples/teachings.

Surely its better to talk about the message, not nitpick on the messenger?
edit on 22-2-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:19 AM
link   


Originally posted by NOTurTypical reply to post by naeem11111
 
So other people called Jesus the King of the Jews? But that's not what you said, you said Jesus claimed to be the King of the Jews. Jesus never made that statement. You also said Jesus "led" an armed revolt, that's not true either. So what if Peter uses his sword, Jesus tells him to put his sword "away".


Why did the people call him the king of the Jews if he isnt one?
Regarding the revolt;

"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Why is he telling those who have no weapons to get one by selling their clothes? (must be an important job if you have to sell your clothes)



Both of your statements are complete fabrications. But that's all smoke and mirrors, you originally said Jesus was killed because He was a "threat to Rome". This is demonstratively false because Pilate declares that he found "no fault" with Jesus.


Yet, he was still killed, even though persuaded in the end it was HIS decision. Which was the right choice when Jesus dies within a short span compared to the average of 2/3 days for a normal person. Why did he die so quickly at his cruxifiction? (something fishy was going on and Pilate was aware of this hence the spearing)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:45 AM
link   


Originally posted by IAMIAM Originally posted by naeem11111 What do you know of the end my friend?

My friend, first of all, only in this 'prison' does time 'exist.' Outside their is no beginning or ending just a loop, the symbol for infinity.


Have you the divine right to set the mark where by God himself counts time?

As mentioned above, there is no time, hence no counting time.


Christ's death was not the end of the plot, it was the beginning.

It was 'game over' for Jesus of Nazareth on his cruxifiction day, but if the five Kings were not present he would have reacted differently.


Watch.

So has humanity for the past 2000 years and I am still waiting.

-Naeem



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 01:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by naeem11111

Why did the people call him the king of the Jews if he isnt one?


That's not what you claimed. You claimed Jesus said He was the King of the Jews. Jesus didn't say that.


Regarding the revolt;

"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Why is he telling those who have no weapons to get one by selling their clothes? (must be an important job if you have to sell your clothes)


Not clothes, "garment", big difference. Secondly, telling his disciples to be prepared for a very dangerous journey with a sword/knife to protect themselves isn't leading an armed revolt. That's absurd. If a father tells his daughter to keep a taser in her purse or to buy a gun for her nightstand is he telling her to wage armed conflict with the government by default?

Jesus was merely telling them to provide protection for themselves on their journey, not to attack any authority figures.



Yet, he was still killed, even though persuaded in the end it was HIS decision.


No, it was Jesus's decision to die, Pilate had nothing to do with His decision to die. That's the entire reason Christ came to Earth, to die.

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18


Which was the right choice when Jesus dies within a short span compared to the average of 2/3 days for a normal person. Why did he die so quickly at his cruxifiction? (something fishy was going on and Pilate was aware of this hence the spearing)


See above. Christ had finished His mission, He gave up His "ghost"/spirit. There was nothing left to be accomplished hanging on the cross for a couple more days.



new topics

top topics



 
27
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join