Humans are naturally plant-eaters

Originally posted by FunktheNWO
I'm a vegan and I've never felt better in my life.
It becomes obvious to you when you haven't had anything from another living being in your system for a long period of time, that meat really isn't good for you.
It's hard to describe but it kind of feels like your soul is pure (not to sound like a preachy bible f--king maniac) but it's the best way I can think to say it. Also bowel movements have never been easier

Out of curiosity what is your blood type?

Originally posted by PoorFool

I expected more from members of a site that is dedicated to conspiracies. I really hope you are not a doctor, but I wouldn't be surprised.

AMEN!

Thanks for posting the Big Fat Lies video, and I would ask everyone posting on this thread to go back and watch it.

Over and over again you hear people repeating the mainstream claim that eating meat products high in saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease, when the scientific data to support that claim has always been utterly flimsy at best. Heaps of data exist showing something very different -- a diet high in saturated fat and low in carbohydrates promotes weight loss, and decreases cholesterol and trigylceride levels, all three the main indicators of heart disease risk.

In fact, a very recent Israeli study pitting a mainstream low-fat/high-carb diet vs. a high-fat /low-carb diet showed the high-fat/low-carb dieters lost more weight than the low-fat dieters, and had their cholesterol levels drop more as well. Again, those are both key risk factors in heart disease, so the proof is really in the scientific pudding, if you're only willing to open your mind and seek out the data.

www.nejm.org...

And the this study is by no means alone. These findings are common.

It's not fat that makes people fat. It's carbs and sugar -- not just processed ones either. Contrary to popular belief, an apple is not good for you -- it's terrible for you. Most fruit is. They're almost all fructose, a particularly troublesome form of sugar, which causes your insulin levels to spike rapidly. And since we're bringing historical context into the discussion, and talking about evolution, I might point out that our ancient ancestors 500,000 years ago had very little access to fruit, and when they did, it was for 3 months out of the year. If our bodies evolved to eat something regularly, do you think it was the fruit that was sparse and only grew 3 months out of the year, or the thousands of animals running around everywhere, 24/7/365?

(BTW, an aside -- Any school-child knows that the fruit most frequently-eaten by our ancient ancestors were berries -- this is why berries are also relatively low on the glycemic index (ie, out of all fruits, they affect our insulin levels the least). They're the best for us.)

Another point to bring up is that vegetables as we know them are for the most part a modern invention, at least evolutionarily speaking. If agriculture is 10,000 years old, and almost all of the modern vegetables we eat are products of selective breeding, what vegetables did our ancestors eat 500,000 years ago? Not many, actually. They mostly ate seeds, nuts, berries, and some roots. It's this kind of common sense thinking that has fueled the interest in the Paleolithic Diet rage.

If you're interested in reading more about why almost everything you've ever heard about diet is completely wrong, I recommend Gary Taubes' new book "Why We Get Fat". It's absolutely one of the most important books I've read.

www.amazon.com...

To go along with your evolution thing our large brains evolved from the easily digestible protein in cooked meat cause at some point a distant ancestor found that if you cooked it it stayed good longer and killed the bacteria. It also taste better but that is cause your body knows it is better for you cooked so your brain and taste buds do you a favor and make it taste better.

Since we are social animals and it was better a stigma came on eating raw meat except for necessity. After 1000s of years our body's got so used to cooked meat we evolved to not work as hard in the digestive system. That is also why our teeth shrank. It is easier to chew cooked meat.

Originally posted by Pseudonaut
Over and over again you hear people repeating the mainstream claim that eating meat products high in saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease, when the scientific data to support that claim has always been utterly flimsy at best. Heaps of data exist showing something very different -- a diet high in saturated fat and low in carbohydrates promotes weight loss, and decreases cholesterol and trigylceride levels, all three the main indicators of heart disease

Explain to me how the mainstream media benefits from lying about meat causing heart disease.


As they say, follow the money and in this case the only people making money from meat are the meat industries themselves and the pharmaceuticals you will eventually use (if not already) trying to fix your body that went to hell after eating way too much meat.

The meat industries will say all kinds of BS and fund all kinds of biased studies in order to keep their grasp on consumers.

The facts however show a proper vegetarian diet is always more healthy than any diets that involve meat.

It has been conclusively proven through extensive worldwide studies by independent, highly respected international health advisory boards that a vegetarian diet is significantly healthier than one which includes meat and animal products. This is true for all ages, infant to adult, and includes pregnant and lactating women.

Studies have found a direct statistical correlation between decreased meat intake and increased health benefits. The chances of developing chronic diseases including high blood pressure, diabetes, coronary heart disease, obesity, kidney failure, osteoporosis and cancer, is markedly decreased among vegetarians and vegans by as much as forty percent.. Along with this favorable news, chances for longevity might increase by some twenty percent.

Some notable organizations and studies that have did the tests and found that vegetarianism is the healthier way to go:
British Medical Association (BMA)
"the China study" (looked at 6,500 participants over the course of several years)
World Health Organization (WHO)
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM)
The Oxford study
American Dietetic Association (ADA)

Oh, and my most favorite part:

Owing to these benefits, health insurance companies commonly offer discount rates to vegetarians and vegans.

You really think health insurance companies would do this if it wasn't conclusively proven hundreds of times?

You meat fanatics need to wake up and smell the coffee. Your support of meat is baseless and borderline psychotic. Stop being so damn delusional and JUST ADMIT IT. Just admit you follow a diet that isn't as healthy.


Source

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Explain to me how the mainstream media benefits from lying about meat causing heart disease.

Sure. I never said that anyone was lying about it -- far from it. It's not a conspiracy in that sense. The proponents actually believe what they're saying. In fact, that's the problem. They believe it so fully, that it's become so established that to merely suggest something opposite (something, btw, that was common held belief among medical professionals 80 years ago...), ie, fat doesn't make you fat, is practically commit career suicide. It's sometimes referred to as a "cascade". So many people repeat something, that everyone just figures it must be true -- even the people who are supposed to actually KNOW this stuff (ie, the doctors and medical professionals we supposedly trust to tell us how to stay healthy).

But, you did say follow the money, so I would say this: Even though every major medical foundation in the whole world promotes a low-fat diet to stay healthy (which I am saying actually increases risk of heart disease), in time, when the scientific studies against such a diet become too numerous and blatant to ignore, they will have no choice but to reverse course. But there's another player here -- the US Agriculture Dept, which is responsible for the Foot Pyramid that we all know so well... You know, the one with grains, breads and cereals as its base? Well, the agriculture lobby in this country is massive, so I can definitely image them fighting tooth and nail against a reversal of the pyramid...

Like I said in my previous post, try giving this YouTube video a watch. They cover some of this ground. And Check out Taubes' "Why We Get Fat", if your'e truly curious. He explains it better than I ever could.

The facts however show a proper vegetarian diet is always more healthy than any diets that involve meat.

I'd be very interested to see some scientific data that backs that up. Could you post some links? I'll dig around, too. It seems unlikely to me, if eating less carbs decreases blood lipid levels, as the data I posted indicates, but as has already been pointed out in the thread, there's many ways one can be a vegetarian. But if you take meat-based protein out of a diet, you have to fill replace it with something -- and that something is usually... more carbs.

I have no interest in being a vegetarian, so my post was more geared towards showing that excessive carbs are the real heart-disease culprit, not meats high in saturated fats. I should probably post those thoughts as a separate thread, though...

Originally posted by The_Zomar

It has been conclusively proven through extensive worldwide studies by independent, highly respected international health advisory boards that a vegetarian diet is significantly healthier than one which includes meat and animal products. This is true for all ages, infant to adult, and includes pregnant and lactating women.

Studies have found a direct statistical correlation between decreased meat intake and increased health benefits. The chances of developing chronic diseases including high blood pressure, diabetes, coronary heart disease, obesity, kidney failure, osteoporosis and cancer, is markedly decreased among vegetarians and vegans by as much as forty percent.. Along with this favorable news, chances for longevity might increase by some twenty percent.

Some notable organizations and studies that have did the tests and found that vegetarianism is the healthier way to go:
British Medical Association (BMA)
"the China study" (looked at 6,500 participants over the course of several years)

World Health Organization (WHO)
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM)
The Oxford study
American Dietetic Association (ADA)

Oh, and my most favorite part:

Owing to these benefits, health insurance companies commonly offer discount rates to vegetarians and vegans.

You really think health insurance companies would do this if it wasn't conclusively proven hundreds of times?

You meat fanatics need to wake up and smell the coffee. Your support of meat is baseless and borderline psychotic. Stop being so damn delusional and JUST ADMIT IT. Just admit you follow a diet that isn't as healthy.


Source

You know it's really ignorant of you to sit there and call people delusional and tell them to admit it when many of the people here have presented scientific fact to the contrary (of which you still haven't looked at). It's one thing to change a persons mind from the quality of meat they eat (i.e. how it's raised) to all out telling them it's going to cause them ill health when, ONCE AGAIN, science can prove otherwise.

I understand your moral and ethical dilemma and your personal reasoning for not eating meat. But you keep touting the facts of veg being healthier, when that is not the truth.

One thing that keeps being ignored is the facts that not all meat is the same, and not all diets containing meat are the same.

If your interest is just to ignore the opposing facts and spout your beliefs to those that won't fact check, then you are deceiving people as you are not coming from a fully educated standpoint.

I respect your choice but not your lack of respect for opposing truths.

thread full of contradictions

Originally posted by kalamatas
You know it's really ignorant of you to sit there and call people delusional and tell them to admit it when many of the people here have presented scientific fact to the contrary (of which you still haven't looked at).

I guess I didn't explain it fully. I called them delusional because I have several times posted evidence of which they have ignored and then say theres no scientific data even when I rub it in their face.

I have read the links provided to me and usually are off topic (for instance fat doesn't cause fat. I never claimed that it did.) or non-credible.

You can't find a reliable study that conclusively proves that meat does not cause heart disease or cancer because it has been proven multiple times that it has...

The data I posted, however, comes from the most credible, well funded, and diverse sources available on the subjects.

I'm going to sleep tonight, I'll respond to the rest tomorrow.

I watched the video. It's sickening and sad. I am an animal lover and based on the video these animals were terrified and knew what was going on. No living creature deserves this treatment.

Originally posted by locster
Not this again. Gorillas and hippo's eat meat. Humans were designed to eat almost everything they could get their hands on. So no, not naturally plant eaters only.

You said designed.......


But according to the bible Adam and Eve where friends with the animals.....what changed?

I was raised bible but the more i look the more i question.

reply to post by Vandalour


if we aren't meant to eat animals then why are they made of meat!!

seriously though i agree with the op. also man was permitted to eat meat after the great flood apparentley

Originally posted by PoorFool
reply to post by Vandalour

 

Then why aren't carnivorous animals dying from cancer?

Does meat have something against humans in particular?

reply to post by The_Zomar

 

If I had some grass-fed liver at home, I would. No sweat, I've done it before, with a little salt on top.

edit on 22-1-2011 by PoorFool because: (no reason given)

Feed meat to a cow and it will probably get cancer, Humans are not designed to eat the quantity of meat that many are now consuming.

Originally posted by nightrun
People are addicted to meat, they don't know any better. Only when they actually try new diets that they open up to these concepts. Vegetarianism is abit of a joke because it still partakes in eating fish flesh and eggs.

I challenge anyone to try a 30day raw fruit and veg diet and then come back and preach about ancestors and things that don't matter. So people made the same mistakes in the past, what does that prove?

There are so many myths and misinfo out there because the profit industry want you eating meat, they want you unhealthy, they want you in hospitals and popping pills. They want you to stay asleep, they want you productive, they want you to die younger. You need to wake up and try alternate ways of living.

You think cows need to eat meat to get big? Hmm so we need to eat cows because...

I went on a raw fruit and vege diet for 3 months. - not to prove it would be a healthy alternative, but to prove it wouldn't. "Obviously" there was not enough protein in that diet to keep healthy, and no B12.
I was surprised to find that I felt great on it. The first week was hard because I craved juicy steaks, but I didn't lose any strength and I gained endurance.

Btw, the diet was very strict. All the raw fruits and raw veges I wanted, and absolutely nothing else except water.
I only stopped because it was inconvenient to have such a fussy diet.

By the way, if your "vegetarian" diet inclused fish, you are a pescetarian.
If it includes eggs and milk, you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian.

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by LUXUS
All meat eaters are predators, and therefore are born with natural weapons to help catch their pray i.e. Speed, camouflage, sharp claws, sharp teeth, bone crushing jaws....which of these do you think you have?, most humans can lose a tooth from biting into a toffee apple, predators we are not!

Our natural weapon is our brain; we can plan ahead and outsmart our prey.

Originally posted by LUXUS
Humans do eat meat but do you think humans would eat raw meat i.e. before humans discovered fire did they ever eat meat, I think not!

Chimpanzees don't cook meat, why would we until we discovered how to use fire?

Originally posted by LUXUS
Saliva analysis has shown that humans have the saliva characteristics of a plant eater, not a meat eater.

Our digestive system breaks down different foods at different points. Our saliva helps begin the breakdown of starch and fat. Further on in the digestive system we have enzymes to breakdown proteins.

Originally posted by LUXUS
The truth is that humans are not designed to eat meat and therefore a diet which is excessive in meat will result in health problems.

Humans have actually damaged themselves by eating meat because our ability to extract protein from plant matter in now seriously impaired.

We don't have the digestive track of a pure herbivore. We're omnivores, plain and simple.

Originally posted by LUXUS
Yes I know men feel very masculine eating a big lump of meat but the truth is if you get a man, strip his clothes off and throw him into a jungle you will see just how pathetic the human body is in comparison to all other animals on this rock....which is why I have also come to the conclusion that there is something about humans that is not quite natural.

Except we can invent tools and clothing to overcome our environment. This is why humans have succeeded.

The physical body of the human was already fully developed by the time they started making weapons to hunt. If you are saying our lack of natural hunting weapons is because we used tools to hunt then how do you explain how humans survived before they started using such things.

For the bulk of human evolution, humans were mostly plant eaters.

This IS important to understand because to be healthy you must eat what you were designed to eat. The correct/natural diet of a human is largely plant matter.

I believe once humans started eating meat it damaged their digestive system. I am not saying that humans should now not eat meat because the damage is done. Humans now have to eat meat to get protein because we are no longer able to extract it from plant matter efficiently. This damage took place around the time humans discovered fire.

It follows that the Atkins diet is the most disgusting and unhealthy diet ever invented!

Originally posted by codrutoctavian
I have been a vegetarian for 3 months. In the beginning I felt better. I have probably detoxified my body bit, but after 3 months my sexual appetite went to zero. This was a no-no for me. I suppose, I was not eating all that is needed in a vegan/raw vegan diet in order to compensate the lack of meat. It is very difficult to keep a complete vegan/raw vegan in my opinion. It's too complex.
I guess meat just makes life easier.

The most important thing to check is your B12 levels. The cheapest way is to get vitamin B12 tablets, prefeably sublingual, and dissolve three under you tongue. If that's the problem, you should be starting to feel better the next day.

Next, make sure your diet is healthy, high enough in protein, not too high in carbs. Some people on vegetarian diets substitute sugary foods or bread for meat, and that's a sure road to disaster.

Sexual appetite is partially dependant on zinc, which is plentiful in pumpkin seeds, oysters, nuts and beef.

A good vegetarian diet is great, but it's better not to be too strict if you are not able to carefully meet all your needs as a complete vegetarian.

I still have not find the answer to question if man is a vegan or an omnivore.

We are vegetarian animals with a tendancy to crave, and sometimes need, meat.
We're onmivores.
We're carnivores.

It all depends which group of humans we're talking about.

The great thing is that, food wise, we are very adaptable. So most people can stay healthy and well nourished as vegetarians or as omnivores.
The ability to stay healthy on an Innuit diet may be a genetic adaptation.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by Sly1one

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by Sly1one

 

The strong overtake the weak. The strongest protect the weak.

This isn't and cannot be true otherwise we would be # slapping every tiger that ever went after its prey...and we don't...because we understand the nature of their relationship, predator and prey...to protect one you harm the other. The only truly natural thing to do is leave it be...

The strong overtake the weak...period.

edit on 22-1-2011 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-1-2011 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)

We wouldn't do that, it would just be plain stupid. It would result in killing off a species of animals to protect another; which would be fruitless. Some of the responsible part humanity protects the weak by preserving the species and protecting them from extinction. According to your logic we should kill off those surviving animals of an endangered species because they are "weak".

Come off of it. You must have had your ass kicked way too many times in highschool and now you feel the need to present yourself as powerful and masculine. The smarter ones see through your rouse, and sees how pitiful you are.

edit on 22-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)

Lol, you don't appear to read well, I said it is best to "stay out of it" as in we wouldn't just go milling off killing species because they are dying off or going extinct. So don't educate me on my logic I know it well, it is however apparently too much for you to comprehend so you continue to misunderstand it as you have previously.

I'm not going to follow you down some path of childish pas of, "this is what must have happened to you" because I could just as easily say by your avatar you as a scrawny emo-kid who hangs around too many well-to do coffee shops on your laptop because you have little to no friends...see I can' play the game too, it is dumb so seriously stop derailing the discussion in that direction because you cannot defend your points with ration or logic. I have refrained from insults because I know better, you apparently don't.

moving on. I would have been more inclined to agree with or consider the "humans being plant eaters" argument IF it wasn't presented as a matter of fact. If it was presented as a hypothetical or opinion I would have gone into a discussion considering and entertaining the idea because I am open minded, HOWEVER because many on here including yourself are touting claims to factual evidence as if it is undeniable proof, I had to act on my better rational as those claims are absolutely 100% unjustified.

I have presented my perspective and points throughout this thread and really don't have much more to say on the issue. I have found your method of logic to be flawed because its primarily based on emotions and passion for animals and your desire to be their "ultimate protector". I'm sorry you have taken on such a heavy task/responsibility as I guarantee you will fail to protect anything...

Even if you sway human kind to vegan lifestyles, "Thumper" and "Bambie" will most likely still be consumed as food.

Its one thing to say: "Hey I don't agree with eating meat and here is why..." and its a completely other thing to say: "Humans are plant eaters and this is a FACT"...

Originally posted by LUXUS
The physical body of the human was already fully developed by the time they started making weapons to hunt. If you are saying our lack of natural hunting weapons is because we used tools to hunt then how do you explain how humans survived before they started using such things.

For the bulk of human evolution, humans were mostly plant eaters.

And you draw this conclusion, how? Also, you have shot yourself in the foot..

"Humans were mostly plant eaters.."

Mostly, huh? What about the rest?

The argument in this thread is not that humans don't eat plants, but rather Humans are omnivores, which means we eat both. You have proven the premise of this thread as erroneous in your argument.

Originally posted by LUXUS
This IS important to understand because to be healthy you must eat what you were designed to eat. The correct/natural diet of a human is largely plant matter.

Supplemented with meat. What's your point? The base argument in this thread is whether Humans are "naturally herbivores", which we are most definately not.

Originally posted by LUXUS
I believe once humans started eating meat it damaged their digestive system. I am not saying that humans should now not eat meat because the damage is done. Humans now have to eat meat to get protein because we are no longer able to extract it from plant matter efficiently. This damage took place around the time humans discovered fire.

HAHAHA! So eating meat, somehow, changed our base genetics so we can no longer get protein from plants? Please describe the process in which this happened. Just because you believe something, that doesn't make it so!

But, we can get protein from plants, you just have to eat a whole shed load of them! Even Cows have to eat a tons of grass, in fact all herbivores must spend most of their time eating as the nutritonal value of plant matter is pretty poor, requiring them to constantly eat.

Originally posted by Davo163

I do admire you courageous efforts to minimise the harm to animals, but I would recommend anyone considering becoming a vegetarian to consult with a dietician for the first year of their diet to ensure they are obtaining as much nutrition from their food as possible and supplementing everything else that is missing. Iron, B12, A, E, D and K2 are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

No, you're mistaken with this list.

B12 - yoghurt, vegemite, fermented tofu, brie, sourdough bread and lemon grass, as well as animal products.

A - carotene is high in red and orange vegetables, and easily converted in the body in the presence of lipids to vitamin A.

E - high in nuts and whole grains.

D - sunlight, oily fish or cod-liver oil.

K2 - high in soy product.
However K2 is merely one form of vitamin K, and is not essential to the diet. Vitamin K is some form is, but this is easily supplied by eating grean leafy vegetables.