Humans are naturally plant-eaters

Few things scream out me in this debate 1) the appendix isn't some useless organ! It is a very important part of our immune system. 2) Soy isn't healthy. If soy was so healthy why don't they consume tons of it in the cultural areas where the plant is from? And why did "peasants" in time long pass only consume it during famine periods? Why do most wild animals stay away from the plant? Ohh right, it has an estrogen based compound(so soy eaters might as well be taking estrogen pills like mtf people) and is CARCINOGENIC! Of course soy could be really healthy if it was properly processed to remove the estrogen based compounds and the carcinogenic compounds or whatever. But the Soy industry would lose too much money.

Oh, and for the "no meat till tools", chimps and other monkeys have been found to use ultra primitive spears(mostly females to make up for being weaker so they can be effective).

That said, I can live without red meat. In fact I feel healthier without eating it(most red meat takes forever to digest, only time it might be useful is if you aren't sure when your next meal will be). But living without fish and poultry, no way. Can't do it, suffice to say my body won't allow for it and I have no interest in going feral.

I wonder though if that whole "diet by blood type" comes into play with stuff like this. To start off this ill fated survey O+ here, omnivore.

P.S




Save a cow, eat a vegetarian!
jking!

I believe tat moderation is the key. Our familyeats like that. Mostly fruit,vegetables, and nuts, we'll have a small serving of meat added two or three times a week. Moderation and lowers the grocery bill.
fyi- my sister in law is vegan. She can't seem told get pregnant. They can't findany reason for it. She'll tried Ivf and it failed.they now have to go see a specielist who willingly work on her and her husband diet and add a meat once or twice a week. If this works i'll have my answer.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by Byteman

Humans require vitamin B12 for proper brain functioning. The only natural place that Humans can get it is meat or dairy. How can an Herbivore species require something it can only get from animal sources?

Where do you get your information from??? Cereals, Oils, Nuts, the list continues. And you only need to replenish it about every 30 years. You are grasping at straws.

I can't believe people are still wasting their time with you, especially when you spout out baloney sauce like this? Don't you realize people here fact check? That means every time you spout baloney sauce like this that you must have gathered from here say, you make yourself look sillier and sillier.

And once again, I can't believe I'm posting here again, I just thought I'd check to see if you actually came to your senses and quit with the silliness.

But here's my last link on this thread, not for you because you don't read, but for those people that might just think your silliness about B-12 is true.

ods.od.nih.gov...

I'd better tell that family member of mind who has to regularly inject b12 that her doctor's nuts and she's probably o.d.ing on it! THAT'S A JOKE. (not the injecting b12 part) See I can be silly too.

reply to post by kalamatas


Lets clear up B12 once and for all since you pinpoint that one particular subject you have a problem with.

#1: B12 comes from the ground - NOT ANIMALS!

The reason B12 is in meats is because animals eat grass (grown on the ground) where the vitamin transfers to the animal. Growing our own vegetables in our gardens at home provides us with more than enough of the vitamin. In fact, home grown veggies are PACKED FULL of B12! The reason store boughten vegis aren't is because of the intense cleaning.

#2: Our bodies can store B12 for YEARS!

Source

#3: It is VERY easy to get our B12!

Some foods with B12:
Nutritional Yeast
Miso
Seaweed
Eggs
Cheese
All kinds of dairy!

Vegans can get their B12 through supplements or fortified foods, then again, I'm not vegan nor am I defending it. It is easy to get B12 no-matter what your diet is.

So why do you keep bringing up B12? It's obviously not a problem. Once again, I've been vegetarian for 7+ years and I feel the best I ever have. (as expected).

Inuit consume a diet of foods that are fished, hunted, and gathered locally. This may include walrus, Ringed Seal, Bearded Seal, beluga whale, caribou, polar bear, muskoxen, birds (including their eggs) and fish. While it is not possible to cultivate plants for food in the Arctic the Inuit have traditionally gathered those that are naturally available. Grasses, tubers, roots, stems, berries, fireweed and seaweed (kuanniq or edible seaweed) were collected and preserved depending on the season and the location.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] According to Edmund Searles in his article "Food and the Making of Modern Inuit Identities," they consume this type of diet because a mostly meat diet is "effective in keeping the body warm, making the body strong, keeping the body fit, and even making that body healthy

inuit diet

so the inuit ate both animal and vegtable, but without the animal he would not have been able to make clothing to keep warm.
try making a warm coat out of grass

point being made is that humans needed to be hunters and gatherers to be able to survive, not one or the other, so to say we are naturally plant eaters may be right in fertile plains, but less correct in harsher enviroments.

reply to post by The_Zomar


That is not a cogent response to what I said.
You are just responding with nonsense now.

BTW, I notice you failed to address the vast majority of my post again.

Why do you keep cutting out about 95%+ and only address one little part?

Just so you don't have the "i don't know how" excuse. You just hit the "reply to" button there next to the "quote" button, and then copy+paste the link it provides into your response post.

LMAO

Here I'll link the post you are nonsensically responding to, so people can see just how much of it you are avoiding.

reply to post by Byteman


BTW, you still have yet to answer my question at the top of page 24. This post....

reply to post by Byteman


Is Red meat a type of meat or not?

reply to post by Vandalour


Wow what a horrible idea. Meat is and will be a quite essential food item you would eventually want in the end days. After shtf you wont see meat that much, if any at all! And hamburger? Sorry but McDonalds is OUT OF BUSINESS in this world. Humans are naturally creatures of opportunity and will dine on whatever they can. Tribes would always often have groups of hunter gathers, and hunters. And would travel the land at different times depending on what food supplies were in season. People like you with no real knowledge or expertise in any related field just would not survive. Use your time gaining knowledge, getting prepared, and practicing the kills YOU WILL NEED!!!

Originally posted by Vandalour

Our so-called "canine teeth" are "canine" in name only. Other plant-eaters (like gorillas, horses, and hippos) have "canines", and chimps, who are almost exclusively vegan, have massive canines compared to ours.

Is that a joke? Chimps hunt and kill monkeys in packs.


Canine teeth are used for tearing flesh. You have canine teeth. So, you're supposed to be using them to tear flesh. Go nuts talking about the morality of eating meat but don't make up nonsense about chimps not eating meat. Also, chimps use sticks as tools to get to ants for eating. I'm pretty sure that ants are made out of meat.



Your ancestors survived an ice age eating mammoth burgers. The fact that you most likely exist solely because your ancestors had meat available and ate it makes you somewhat of a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by Kailassa

 

That diet only worked because the Human body stores up B12.
That is what prevented health problems caused by lack of meat or dairy intake.
If you stuck with it, you would have eventually run out of B12 and then problems would have started.

Some people seem to make B12 in the gut, or at least they host bacteria which do.
I suspect avoiding all chemicals, added sweetening and processed foods makes this more likely, by making the gut more friendly to the bacteria which ideally live there.
But these days that's no longer possible, and I'd never recommend anyone rely on that.

Anyone going vegan should go on B12 supplements just to be safe, or have lots of fermented foods.

Btw, a lack of B12 can cause confusion and memory problems, which make a person less able to get help at that stage, - and can make a person obsessive.

It's possible this is why chimps eat termites, and monkeys tend to eat baby monkeys now and then, despite being mostly vegan. Perhaps they get a craving for meat when they need more B12.

reply to post by The_Zomar


Wrong.

1)Herbivores get B12 from naturally occurring bacteria in their Rumens or Cecum, not the ground.
The amount of nutrients in this or that vegetable doesn't prove that B12 comes from the ground.

2) That source isn't even a medical resource, it's a pro-veggie site. This medically neutral, PEER REVIEWED site I'm linking to says 3-5 years of B12 storage...not a decade. And this assumes optimal health, no genetic defects, etc.

Vitamin B12 Deficiency

3) 3 of 6 of these foods COME FROM ANIMALS LIKE I HAVE SAID ALL ALONG

2 of 6 are UNNATURAL PROCESSED FOODS and processed crap leads to health problems.

1 of 6 (seaweed) will actually make B12 deficiency worse, and this is your fellow veggie-warriors saying this.

I normally wouldn't do this, but if your intent on depriving yourself of meat. You can at least get your information from a credible sight, and not just some random wahoo hippie blog that says "meat is evilz LULZ" "eat seaweed for B12 LULZ"

Proof that eating seaweed will make you MORE B12 deficient from a PRO VEGAN sight.

Whatever sight you are getting your information from is dangerous, and it's bad nutritional advice will eventually get someone hurt.

No, B12 isn't easy to get no matter what diet your are. It is easy to get as a Carnivore, Omnivore, or lacto-ovo vegetarians. Non-lacto/ovo vegetarians are out of luck, as are true vegans.

Again, your sources are dangerous and will get someone hurt.

You do NOT have 10 years of B12 storage.

We keep bringing up B12, because we can only efficiently get it from eating meat. You seem to be forgetting that this topic is "Humans are naturally plant eaters" that is what we are arguing against. The topic is not, "how veggie warriors get along without eating meat".

In nature Humans get B12 from eating animals and their by-products...period.

That only proves what we have said. You feeling fine is expected if you are getting plenty of B12 from dairy.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

#3: It is VERY easy to get our B12!

Some foods with B12:
Nutritional Yeast
Miso
Seaweed
Eggs
Cheese
All kinds of dairy!

Vegans can get their B12 through supplements or fortified foods, then again, I'm not vegan nor am I defending it. It is easy to get B12 no-matter what your diet is.

So why do you keep bringing up B12? It's obviously not a problem. Once again, I've been vegetarian for 7+ years and I feel the best I ever have. (as expected).

edit on 23-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)

Well, from a nice vegan site.

B12 is generally found in all animal foods (except hoContrary to rumors, there are no reliable, unfortified plant sources of vitamin B12, including tempeh, seaweeds, and organic produce. The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that plant foods do not provide vitamin B12, and fortified foods or supplements are necessary for the optimal health of vegans, and even vegetarians in many cases.ney). Luckily, vitamin B12 is made by bacterial fermentation such that it does not need to be obtained from animal products. Despite this, some vegan advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the nutrients necessary for optimal health," and do not address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an afterthought. And still others emphasize that humans need only small amounts of B12 and that it can be stored in the body for years. While true that, at the time they become vegan, some people have enough B12 stored in their liver to prevent overt B12 deficiency for many years, people often misinterpret this to mean that you only need to consume a tiny amount once every few years. Actually, to build up such stores, it takes years of consuming B12 beyond one's daily needs (unless you are using supplements which can build up stores more quickly). Some people do not have large enough stores of B12 to be relied upon even for short periods.

www.veganhealth.org...

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by Byteman

Humans require vitamin B12 for proper brain functioning. The only natural place that Humans can get it is meat or dairy. How can an Herbivore species require something it can only get from animal sources?

Where do you get your information from??? Cereals, Oils, Nuts, the list continues. And you only need to replenish it about every 30 years. You are grasping at straws.

You obviously know NOTHING about vitamin B12.

Naturally occurring B12 is not found in a single one of the foods you listed, and children and older people need B12 much more frequently than young adults do.

No grains, cereals or nuts contain B12 unless it has been artificially added, as is commonly done with breakfast cereals.

From Wiki:

Recent research indicates that B12 deficiency is far more widespread than formerly believed.
. . .
Against this background, there are reasons to believe that B12 deficiency is present in a far greater proportion of the population than 39% as reported by Tufts University.

In the developing world the deficiency is very widespread, with significant levels of deficiency in Africa, India, and South and Central America. This is due to low intakes of animal products, particularly among the poor.
. . . .
B12 deficiency is even more common in the elderly. This is because B12 absorption decreases greatly in the presence of atrophic gastritis, which is common in the elderly.

B12 deficiency is common among vegetarians and vegans who do not take B12 supplements. In vegans the risk is very high because none of their natural food sources contain B12. One American study found blood levels below normal in 92% of vegans, 64 % of lactovegetarians, 47% of lacto-ovo vegetarians who did not supplement their diet with B12. The study applied the old normal values, so in reality a considerably greater proportion may have been deficient.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/52ad14101315.jpg[/atsimg]
Since parts of my family have since became vegetarian, we usually just stick with an all vegetarian meal like the image above. The funny thing is my father still thinks he's getting his meat fix.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b2e4cc964092.jpg[/atsimg]
Chicken strips about to go into an enchilada! No fear of biting into gristle or bone.

A little off topic, but the motto here is "Deny Ignorance", so I figured I'd enlighten you on what a modern vegetarian's grub looks like.

Since when have turkeys and chickens been vegetables?

I hope you enjoy eating this lovely food, it looks a healthy way to eat, but it is not vegetarian.

A vegetarian diet avoids meat. Chicken meat and turkey meat are meat.

My uncle was a vegetarion for 20 years till the doctor told him he NEEDED to eat meat because he was getting so sick.. now he eats meat and is fine. Its called a food chain for a reason

reply to post by Kailassa


That "food" is fake processed soy that only looks like meat.

Highly processed soy like these, feed cancer.

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by Kailassa

 

That "food" is fake processed soy that only looks like meat.
Highly processed soy like these, feed cancer.

Thanks for the info.I had to google it to double check before I believed you.

To my mind, pretend foods like that are gross.
Either eat meat or don't eat meat, there is no need to eat pretend meat either way.
But then, I've got "taste-tester" taste buds, and to me those fake meats taste foul rather than fowl.

It's like fake sugar. If people want to avoid sugar, why not just have non-sweetened or savoury stuff?

The big problem is not that people eat meat, it's that we don't have enough plant foods, and all our food is contaminated with poisons, and we eat too much unnecessary garbage as snacks. We'd add years to average life expectancy if people simply pruned the worst foods out of their diets and improved the rest a little.

Btw, organic non GMO soybeans are fine for women, it's just men shouldn't eat too much of them. I made home-made tofu, soy milk and soy grits for years, cooking for a family with allergies, and we stayed healthy as could be.

Originally posted by Australiana
I am a vegetarian and proud of it! I get so sick of people knocking me because of their ignorance - I am sorry but true! People knock me because I have a conscience and they can't understand. Glad you posted this topic. If animals were bred in an "old fashioned type" farm and killed quickly I would still eat meat - but unfortunately this is not the case anymore. The thought of animal killing factories make me sick to the very core of me. If everyone saw how their yummy burger or neatly presented raw meat came to be on their supermarket or butchers shelves, I am more than positive there would be a lot more vegetarians.

Peace

Having worked in a abattoir and seen animals killed the "old fashioned farm way" ,it goes like this,
farm
The sheep's throat is cut and a is very much alive till it dies from blood lose , not quick at all

Abattoir
Sheep is electrocuted then it's throat is cut,electrocution does 2 things it kills the sheep and makes the blood thinner allowing it to drain more quickly,
Cows are shot in the head with a bolt gun (kills them) and then electrocuted

Vegans and such seem to think they own the high moral ground and want to preach to meat eaters and use words like Neanderthals to describe us,Vego's like to dish it out but get upset if meat eaters have an opinion on them, You do not like being judged,but are quite happy to judge meat eaters,how hypocritical is that matey,as for the OP ,nice try no cigar for you buddy

If you are going to be wary of the dangers of estrogen in soy, you should also beware the estrogen, among other hormones, in cow's milk. I believe there is a higher concentration in milk than in soy.

another classic example of douhebag new age believing everything they hear. hey 1 in ever 2 people will get cancer so it doesnt really matter anyway eat what you want.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I once saw a documentary that claimed that eating cooked meat had a major role in human advancement. Being able to digest food high in energy quickly allowed us more time and strength to perform more tasks, hence it helped us develop quicker. Im not denying we are naturally plant eaters , but somewhere along the line we discovered the delights of cooked meat and used it to our advantage.

edit on 21-1-2011 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)

I had once reached the same conclusion. It appears humans are creatures that would sacrifice another to sustain itself, instead of growing and gathering nonmeat food humans would rather spend time on things that give pleasure and eat those that do gather food and then eat it through them. This mechanism appears to be prevalent in society, "eat or be eaten". I wonder which animal started it as the first living beings on this planet must have been herbivores.