Humans are naturally plant-eaters

reply to post by The_Zomar


You said "meat"...period.

reply to post by The_Zomar

You can't find a reliable study that conclusively proves that meat does not cause heart disease or cancer because it has been proven multiple times that it has...

Is Red meat a type of meat or not?

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by kalamatas
You know it's really ignorant of you to sit there and call people delusional and tell them to admit it when many of the people here have presented scientific fact to the contrary (of which you still haven't looked at).

I guess I didn't explain it fully. I called them delusional because I have several times posted evidence of which they have ignored and then say theres no scientific data even when I rub it in their face.

I have read the links provided to me and usually are off topic (for instance fat doesn't cause fat. I never claimed that it did.) or non-credible.

You can't find a reliable study that conclusively proves that meat does not cause heart disease or cancer because it has been proven multiple times that it has...

The data I posted, however, comes from the most credible, well funded, and diverse sources available on the subjects.

I'm going to sleep tonight, I'll respond to the rest tomorrow.

No link between saturated fat and heart disease.

www.ajcn.org...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

China study debunked.

rawfoodsos.com...

Benefits of cholesterol.

www.cholesterol-and-health.com...

I've posted these before, you're keep ignoring them.

For #'s sake, eat what you want, I don't care, I respect your choice, but stop bitching about meat. It's natural and healthy, period.

I can't believe this thread is still going. *facepalm*

Originally posted by The_Zomar

And it took me 5 seconds reading through your article, which proved yourself to be wrong.

"A new study from the Harvard School of Public Health suggests that the heart risk long associated with red meat comes mostly from processed varieties such as bacon, sausage, hot dogs and cold cuts—and not from steak, hamburgers and other non-processed cuts."

RED MEAT
RED MEAT
RED MEAT

Please show me where I said RED MEAT caused heart disease!

The article shows in fact heart disease does occur from meat.

Thanks for more information supporting my argument.

You guys are practically tripping over yourselves to prove my points.

edit on 23-1-2011 by The_Zomar because: (no reason given)

You seriously lack reading comprehension. Let me highlight this for you.

"A new study from the Harvard School of Public Health suggests that the heart risk long associated with red meat comes mostly from processed varieties such as bacon, sausage, hot dogs and cold cuts—and not from steak, hamburgers and other non-processed cuts."

NOBODY here is arguing for processed meat. Stop changing the subject. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by The_Zomar


Your personal taste in food doesn't dictate the natural diet of Humans.
I personally like unseasoned Steak, Chicken, and fish.

The first (and last) time I bit into a Tomato I vomited. By your logic, Humans must be Carnivores or omnivores since I vomited on the taste of Tomato. (no I'm not allergic or anything, I just think they taste terrible)

You haven't conclusively proven anything, you just listed a bunch of organizations that say vegetarianism is better and left it at that. You didn't prove much of anything except that you can make or copy a list of organizations that claim Vegetarianism is healthier. Why not summarize for us how they proved this? Can you cite the studies they did, or can you only cite the name of the organization itself?

Since we're animals, then we must only consider natural sources of food to indicate our natural state. Humans REQUIRE vitamin B12, and Humans can only get it from meat or dairy. If you don't have access to dairy, you know, like the vast majority of Human history, then that only leaves meat.

By your "we're animals" logic, our natural state is to intake vitamin B12 from meat. By your own logic, we are carnivores or omnivores, not herbivores.

You are practically tripping over yourself to prove my points.

Originally posted by Byteman

Humans require vitamin B12 for proper brain functioning. The only natural place that Humans can get it is meat or dairy. How can an Herbivore species require something it can only get from animal sources?

Where do you get your information from??? Cereals, Oils, Nuts, the list continues. And you only need to replenish it about every 30 years. You are grasping at straws.

Vegetarians live longer, and health insurance gives us large discounts. You really think an insurance company would give handouts if it wasn't proven?

Oh, and I don't like tomatoes either.

One more:

I don't know why (or how) some of you even think a vegetarian diet consists of twigs and leafs? Maybe it was back in the 60's the last time you cared to look?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d98bd36ff584.jpg[/atsimg]
One delicious burger please.. hold the heartburn!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/52ad14101315.jpg[/atsimg]
Since parts of my family have since became vegetarian, we usually just stick with an all vegetarian meal like the image above. The funny thing is my father still thinks he's getting his meat fix.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b2e4cc964092.jpg[/atsimg]
Chicken strips about to go into an enchilada! No fear of biting into gristle or bone.

A little off topic, but the motto here is "Deny Ignorance", so I figured I'd enlighten you on what a modern vegetarian's grub looks like.


Your "China study debunked" is a blogger. I can create a blog and put whatever I want on there but it won't be fact checked.

I personally don't care if it heathier, or if we were or were not designed to eat meat, or if it will make me fatter or thinner..... I think it's just morally wrong to kill an animal just to enjoy eating it. I know there are no shortage of people that will argue this, but I never preach to anyone. However since we are on the subject....

Originally posted by The_Zomar

A little off topic, but the motto here is "Deny Ignorance", so I figured I'd enlighten you on what a modern vegetarian's grub looks like.

I can tell you're not from 'round here boy.

The only thing you are denying here is your own ignorance.

You call extremely processed, unnatural, fake "meat" real food? Enjoy your soylent green.

You're wasting your money on this trend, it's nothing but a marketing ploy. Good for you, but no one cares.

And unless you come up with some real evidence for your position, and actually read what we've presented you, this thread is over.

Neither I or anyone will should go any further arguing with a stubborn child like yourself.

I'm done.

Originally posted by TheDebunkMachine
Lol'd hard at apes are vegan, and only meat products they eat are termites, one of the dumbest things i have ever read. Orangutans eat meat, you can even see on a tv show called "orangutan island", one orangutan learns to catch fish and the rest start to eat fish. And chimpanzees, holy crap do not get me started on chimpanzees, they are some of the most ruthless efficient hunters in the wild, they organize troops of chimps and go out and slaughter and eat animals like the colobus monkey, they have even been found to make and use crude spears to hunt. Gorillas are the only great apes that are herbivores.

Here let me Visualize this for ATS for what your explaining

Animal Planet
Fooled by Nature: Chimp Hunting Packs(video)
animal.discovery.com...
On Animal Planet's, "Fooled by Nature," although chimps are primarily vegetarian they hunt in packs to capture their unsuspecting prey, the red colubus monkey.

Then again we have that Hunting Instinct in us Humans !
and Ironically the closest relative we have is the Chimp ...


ok has anyone look at Indigenous People life Styles that are still in the Primitive Status in present day
arnt they more Meat Eaters then Plant Eaters ! There Mostly Hunters then Farmers !

reply to post by The_Zomar


First of all, why didn't you link the post you are quoting...so people can see how much you are taking my statements out of context, and how much of that post you are ignoring since you can't disprove the rest.

Why hide the rest of my post and fail to address it?

Here it is....
reply to post by Byteman


Why don't you address what I said about the Appendix in this post?
Or the fact that I was speaking from a viewpoint of Humans natural state?
How many nuts, fruits and vegetables grow in the winter?

Cereals and Oils (i notice you fail to say what kind) are REFINED FORTIFIED foods (unnatural), and whether or not nuts (as if they were all identical, and again you fail to say what kind) contain enough B12 to sustain a Human has not been settled.

BTW, it's 3-5 years...not 30. And this fact doesn't disprove your incorrect ideas about the Human diet. It only reinforces that Humans need something that in nature they can only get from Meats...dairy is a relatively recent addition to the diet and takes unnatural technology to use effectively. Nuts couldn't do for us, what cooking meat did. They simply don't have enough nutrients or energy to foster the modern brain and again...you haven't proven they have enough B12 to sustain the modern mind. Meat is the only sensible (and proven) answer to our B12 needs.

You say I'm grasping at straws, I say you are dodging questions, and ignoring things you aren't capable of addressing.

reply to post by The_Zomar


That only proves that an insurance company "thinks" that vegetarians are a lower risk.

reply to post by The_Zomar


No thanks, processed foods lead to health problems.
Most of that is processed Soy, and processed Soy feeds cancer.

Here is one of your veggie-tale sites that specifically say to only eat simple Soy foods.

Some random pro-veg site.

Do Soy foods cause Cancer?

BTW, people who get heartburn have digestive problems (commonly caused by sugar, salt and caffeine. btw, two of these come from plants). That has nothing to do with eating meat or vegetables. Getting heartburn from Onions (a vegetable) is common.

If your eating that processed junk, the only thing getting a fix is cancer.

Chicken flavor Cancer food strips to feed some cancer? No thanks. I'll risk biting gristle any day, gristle is tasty especially if it's been BBQ'd.

I know several people who claim to be vegetarians. The funny thing is never never eat any vegetables. I sweat the only eat potato chips and junk food. I used to be a nutritionist in a hospital and my favorite thing to hear was "I am a vegetarian, but I do eat fish". The human digestive system is built to digest and utilize both meat and plants. For example, if we were to truely be herbivores we would have stomachs similar to cows where food goes to digest very slowly, which is true for most herbivores.


However, one can argue in both directions as to are we really omnivores, herbivores, or carnivores. Here are a couple of websites with articles pushing for veganism and omnivorism.

VegSource
Omnivore
Omnivore 2

reply to post by Hr2burn


Then do what the Buddhists do.

Only eat meat that you did not see killed, and was not killed on your behalf.

Original mammal sample before modified ate what its body needed to manage to coexist with nature. Modern human or modified mammal for extensive work needed more energy. Plant diet provided weak work day. More energy needed for better workers so ingesting of flesh fixed prob. New worker work longer harded from more energetic diet. From flesh consumption.. Dna upgraded....

"Short answer; being vegan just makes you better than most people"

Originally posted by leelo
I know several people who claim to be vegetarians. The funny thing is never never eat any vegetables. I sweat the only eat potato chips and junk food. I used to be a nutritionist in a hospital and my favorite thing to hear was "I am a vegetarian, but I do eat fish".

The human digestive system is built to digest and utilize both meat and plants. For example, if we were to truely be herbivores we would have stomachs similar to cows where food goes to digest very slowly, which is true for most herbivores.


However, one can argue in both directions as to are we really omnivores, herbivores, or carnivores. Here are a couple of websites with articles pushing for veganism and omnivorism.

VegSource
Omnivore
Omnivore 2

Yeah, fake vegetarians.

I often encounter those who say they are vegetarian but then they feast on candy that contains gelatin (derived from the collagen inside animals' skin and bones) or baked goods that contain beef tallow. (Tallow is a rendered form of beef or mutton fat) I read any and all foods I eat and I know all the "hidden terms" Nor do I use shampoos or other products that contains such substances, and I only use products labled "Not tested on animals." I'm not vegan, just compassionate.

About our digestive system; herbivores are indeed meant to process foods at a much slower rate. humans have a very long intestine as I'm sure you know, while carnivorous animals usually have a shorter intestine.

Originally posted by Byteman

That only proves that an insurance company "thinks" that vegetarians are a lower risk.

Thats not how the world works I'm afraid.

I love asparagus, broccoli, carrots, celery,and all other vegies,.......
with all kinds of meat,. yummy

This argument is very old and retarded. Tired of hearing it and so is everyone else except for veges. Some of the animals you mentioned as being herbivores do actually eat meat and whatever else they can process. We're no different.

Not to mention there are just as many arguments in the opposite direction that also make sense.

And last but not least, seeing is believing... Most of the veges I've met are NOT healthy. They don't look healthy, and they are weak. They are also forced to spend much more of their time eating to get the same nutrients. Why do you think plant eaters (animals) spend most of their waking time in life eating hundreds of pounds of food each week, or in a single day? They have to or else they would starve and die.

Humans don't have time for that in this modern day even if it was healthy. Modern humans aren't the same as our ancestors either. Over time the body will evolve to meet certain demands, and one of those demands in the past has been eating meat.

Vegan/vegetarianism is, for the most part, an elitist, Western diet for the wealthy and privileged.

Humans are OMNIVORES, which means they can process may different kinds of foods.

Feel free to eat what you want. But don't pretend your diet is 'better' than someone else's unless you grow, gather, hunt ALL your own food.