I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

Originally posted by m0r1arty
reply to post by Essence

 

You are welcome!

Remember to keep a rational head on and you'll find there are things really worth looking into - if only to discover what mundane things can sometimes appear as wonderful anomalies.

-m0r

Ah I'm half and half when it comes to believing/being skeptic. I know that deep down I don't know a thing so I just try to stay open minded. Cheers again though.

I understand where you are coming from. I will post my comment from another thread. This about sums it up in my books. We are learning and learning takes time.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by trueblue
reply to post by Blazer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Yes it seems alot of the old crew dropped off the site changed when facebook and the new layout come into the picture and people that reply with out thinking or researching with their 'me too' & 'I agree' and one liners,
it upset's me to see the quality of this site decline over the years.
I miss the old ATS and its crew,
p.s this is the first time I have been bothered to log on to reply to someone in months."

This is the reply from me Lie Junkie

"I believe it is up to the old timers to show the new people the way. I was recently u2u'd by someone informing me on what I can do to better my ATS experience for others. All I have been seeing lately is a bunch of hostile remarks to new people who do not know the ropes. So please if you see something from someone you did not like, be kind and show them the way. Nothing will ever get accomplished from self centered hateful remarks from people that think their sh-- don't stink. I appreciate all of the tips I get. ATS is a public site the last time I checked. I am shure the owners love the traffic, more people= more money.

So please if someone does something out of the norm or not congruent to what you think ATS should be, then politely inform them. This in the end will make progress as to what "YOU" think the site should be."


I know this is off topic on the UFO vidoes and pictures. But this is the reason for all the madness.

I'm confused. Some people in this thread are mad that others are creating disinformation yet say in the same post they have real information about UFOS. So why don't they post it? Why should I go out and search for UFOS when other people have and have said evidence?Why don't they just post it here or send it to the news media?


Real hard proof of UFOS or Aliens in this universe is probably worth millions if not billions of dollars. if you had real proof of aliens or UFOS you would be on every news station , talk show , radio show and blog in the world.

I mean Coast To Coast AM and Ancient Aliens have people on all the time who have people who JUST HAVE IDEAS about aliens and UFOS and they don't have any real proof to back up claims. So of course if you had real undeniable proof you'd be on tv 24 hours a day.So I don't think I have to go look for real hard proof of aliens. If it's out there , it'll come to me.

Originally posted by Reptius
Real hard proof of UFOS or Aliens in this universe is probably worth millions if not billions of dollars. if you had real proof of aliens or UFOS you would be on every news station , talk show , radio show and blog in the world.

Or you might get silenced pretty quickly and just hope you had a chance of living a normal life after the proof had been taken from you? Not saying I think that's the case at all, but there's an equal chance that there's another side to what you're saying.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Most people are not meant to get things, the world needs worker bees, lol.

This thread is exactly how I feel day in and day out.
I have no doubt in my beliefs, and how much I want to believe.

But it makes it so so hard to see what comes and goes on a daily basis here.
In the 21st century there are just so many alternate explantions for what 20 years ago was considered impossible. Its the facts from the past, coinciding with the evidence of today that will eventually lead the believers to the promised land that we so desperately yearn.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Forewarning, I have not read the posts. Just the OPost, and I wanted to reply straight to the OPer before tackling anything else. (Not that I am going to, technically I don't know because I have yet to read them.)

I see many a "I hate believers" thread, which do nothing to add to the forums either BTW; however, this is not one of those! I was worried at first, then when I saw SaturnFX I was saddened. I thought to myself "Self, (cliche fun!) SaturnFX finally hit is "dead thread"!"

(Dead Thread=Thread that is so outlandish it its claims, it causes a mental rantdown in its readers.)

I had mine a long time ago, though it was with Jesus and not the alien subject matter (Unless you think JC is an alien of course)

Anyway, back to the title/topic "I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult."

My personal stepping stone to this type of a block, is to eleminate those "people" (Not in a "bang, bang you're dead" kinda way.) What I do is take their "facts" (just eaiser to have one word **note the "" ) and run them through a wringer. Tying to not be rude whilst doing it, of course.

Which brings us to the real problem this thread is talking about, the war between "believers" and "skeptics" that goes on in these hallowed (heh) boards. One side is constantly lining up behind faulty information, because they "want to believe"; while the other side is gathering because of the sheer lunacy of some of said "faulty information".

When I see a thread that says we know how many aliens are roaming the Earth, I mean in the words of Gob "C'mon!". "We" know no such thing, someone might, be "we" do not. Or the threads the OPer mentions, "blurry lights" etc; again I ask Gob to assist.

This is why I am neither a skeptic nor a believer. Either side is a mass generalization wrapped up in a stereotype. Remove yourself from the groups, and everything on this site becomes easier to believe.

Finally, what I "believe" (heh) in regards to UFO's. They are for sure real! I am really ignorant, and I do not know every object that is able to fly. So therefore, if I see one of those objects I am uninformed on, guess what? It is Unidentified. (Caps for the U in Ufo) Of course that is another can-of-worms, isn't it? Somewhere, sometime, UFO became AFO (Alien Flying an Object). And people, like me, who wish to identify the object with "common" means before "magic" means are considered "bad and meanies".

Ahh, just another day at ATS. Now if you will excuse me, I am waiting for a reply from god in another thread. (The irony does not escape me, but it escapes many.)

reply to post by SaturnFX


"You People" HeHe....

I want to believe...why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense...so much so that your chasing strong skeptics away and making the subject become less of an investigation and more of a really dumb religion.

To answer your question, most people who have ever experienced anything real, are not going to report it here. The well has been well poisoned with fools' data, in my opinion.

Why? The "pseudo-debunkers" and trolls are allowed to insult and berate at will. If there is not a certified photo or Notarized affidavit attached to your post, you will be shot to he!!, and come out feeling like "why did I throw my pearls before the swine?"

True experiencers are not going to post here unless things change. In my opinion.

edit to add: I am forgetting to mention the many excellent researchers who reside here, and don't mean to include them in my "poisoning the well" rant....hope that's clear...

You complain about ATS not providing the truth you require, yet you still seemed to spend 6000+ posts hunting for it. That's an awful lot of energy and time wasted going round and round in circles chasing your tail.

I would strongly suggest finding some other hobby to pass your time rather than sitting behind a computer typing up post-after-post on a message board. That's some 6400 posts.. and none of them have been productive. Extend that to the entire ATS populace and where does this leave us? That's right, the entire membership are forever chasing their own tail. And that's exactly where TPTB like the position of the alternative media to remain.

This isn't a personal remark by the way, it's an indictment on every one of us on here, myself included. We won't find 'the truth' on here, we simply have to find it in ourselves, in our own minds, whatever makes sense to us. There certainly won't be a mass media announcement or confirmation of ET life, that's for sure.

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
To answer your question, most people who have ever experienced anything real, are not going to report it here.

This sounds like an opinion to me, I posted my experience.

I have seen many folks post their experieneces. Or are you calling me a liar and them? Do you know what I saw? Can you tell me what it was?

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
The well has been well poisoned with fools' data, in my opinion.

Heh, hypocricy right here. You just poisoned the well regarding data, AND you appealed to ridicule. Should you not follow your own advice? Or do you think the well should be posioned by "fools data"?

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
Why? The "pseudo-debunkers" and trolls are allowed to insult and berate at will.

I have seem some pretty smarmy responses from BOTH sides of this fence. Of course it is alot harder to see ones own faults, I know!

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
If there is not a certified photo or Notarized affidavit attached to your post, you will be shot to he!!, and come out feeling like "why did I throw my pearls before the swine?"

Strawman now?

So you took our "posioning the well" and rasied us an "appeal to emotion" and "strawman".

If two wrongs don't make a right, then three most certainly does not. Like I said, somewhere along the lines UFO became AFO, and if you try to identify the object without an alien involved. You are a meanie.

There is a battle going on with UFO's, and it isn't in space. It is right here, on the planet Earth. In the minds of people that dislike eachothers opinions...Annnnyway

Didn't expect this many responses to come so quickly...musta made the active topics list.

Originally posted by zorgon
You would also be surprised at how many high level people, including many that are in the intel business, hang out on ATS and they are not here to bust people

Once you ferret them out (not hard if you pay attention to some posts and read between the lines) you will be amazed at the info you get (No you can't have a list

)

I have chatted with a few people in U2U's about stuff. They claim some impressive background and ask for confidentiality. I respect that (I am probably more paranoid about my identity leaking out than they are anyhow for reasons I don't go into. heh).
I also keep in mind that this is the internet and people lie about who they are. I will listen of course, I will check what they say, but I never take anyone's word for anything..and even if they are who they say they are, whats to say they aren't causing disinformation.
You, Zorgon, have a pretty good following here (myself included admittedly), and so you would be a great target to feed misinformation to confuse the masses without even knowing your promoting a deeper illusion.

Just saying, always question. I don't need to go on about that though..

You have to learn to seek truth using your sub conscious 'gut feeling' to separate the truth from the BS. Once you do that you will be immune to the trolls and skepto-bunkers

Oh, I have a fine tuned BS detector (thanks to ATS), however the detector doesn't go off all the time, and in those cases, well...thats why I am still interested in the subject I guess.

I suspect I know the truth, I want to believe, therefore I am seeking out the absolute truth of the subject, which I reckon will back up my desire. I also admit that my desire on what truth is may not in fact be the actual truth..I will accept that also (however, it seems highly illogical to me that ETs either aren't or haven't ever visited the blue ball here for reasons I won't list).

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Some people aren't "believers"- they KNOW ET's exist. Abudctees would say with 100% certainty that ET's exist and are doing hybridization programs.

ok, this is a good example of my frustration.

I know...KNOW that "ghosts" exist. I do not claim to know what a ghost is..its a general term where nothing else fits. I know this because of some profound experiences which I keep a open mind on. I admit it is not evidence for everyone, I admit that people probably shouldn't even believe me because they were not there (it would annoy me if someone just hands down believed me..it would make me see them as less than skeptical and would probably believe anything anyone said).

However, I do relay my experiences as clearly as I can remember, and hopefully will increase the knowledge base just a little bit to those whom have not experienced what I have.

the UFO community, those whom have personal up front experience, demand they know exactly what happened, no room for compromise, and anyone whom becomes even a little skeptical of their claims are debunking idiots whom are trying to dismiss and be disinfo agents or whatever shortcut to thinking they claim.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by bekod
one and one =2

Well... when you say 1 'and' 1 it could make 11

and 1 + 1 can make 10, all depends on the frame of reference. That is a big problem with information. It is rarely clear and to the point and open to interpretation

1 and 1 also makes 3 (binary)
-0011

nevermind

reply to post by adigregorio


I am saying that since I have been visiting this site, I have seen some people who have posted their experiences beaten up pretty well.

I have seen many folks post their experieneces. Or are you calling me a liar and them? Do you know what I saw? Can you tell me what it was?

No I am not calling you a liar, and since I don't know you, I don't know what you saw. Please don't ask an internet stranger to know what you personally have been through. I will look at your prior post(s) out of interest and respect that you posted them.

I was speaking in generic terms that I have seen "experiencer" posters beaten up by trolls and "other types" enough to justify what I said: That no wonder people who are for real don't come forward more often. To answer the OP, not to attack you.

Maybe you misunderstood, hope this clarifies.

edit to add: I am certain that many have posted truthfully about experiences, have told the truth, some beaten up, some not, but overall the trolls rule IMO....

Originally posted by RiotComing
I would strongly suggest finding some other hobby to pass your time rather than sitting behind a computer typing up post-after-post on a message board. That's some 6400 posts.. and none of them have been productive.

Bah, plenty have been productive, some have been flat out fun, and some have been about as productive as naming blades of grass.

I spend probably more time in philosophy threads intentionally (can't go wrong with philosophy), or yacking about some political nonsense just to fine tune my wit.

Truth...well, I imagine the absolute truth has been posted here on ATS somewhere...the objective, matter of fact truth that will one day be seen as absolute and clear....I am just trying to wade through the pile of crap that is covering it..and hopeing I will know it when I see it.

6400 posts...man, I was thinking I did more...I guess I am a bit lazy.

I think threadbaroning is a legit hobby. my posts may still be kicking around somewhere in 1000 years from now...a stamp collection would probably end up melted away. Posterity and whatnot.

Originally posted by adigregorio
SaturnFX finally hit is "dead thread"!"

(Dead Thread=Thread that is so outlandish it its claims, it causes a mental rantdown in its readers.)

Aww hell, I have made many dead threads then...I would say 1/3 of my threads fall into that catagory. I never pretended to be sane...just clever in my insanity

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by adigregorio

 

I am saying that since I have been visiting this site, I have seen some people who have posted their experiences beaten up pretty well.

I haven't seen much of that. I have seen people claim extraordinary things without making any logical sense and become very defensive when a bit of skepticism is introduced.

There was a thread here a few days back. started with a guy saying he talks to aliens and has messages. He also claimed he had photographic proof of the aliens, and the interior of their ship.
He posted a few pictures of some googled amish people and left for awhile.

People went nuts at us skeptics for not believing the amish pictures were aliens. You could feel the resentment building from the "believers". they were asking the ops for more info as to what they want, how we can better our planet, etc...

the ops came back and posted a picture of the room in the craft.
immediately the skeptics attacked this proof because it was identified as a cabin on a ship..identical picture. The skeptics simply shrugged after exposing this guy.
the believers went into nuclear meltdown defending this idiot as a truthsayer whom is being persecuted.

the guy came back and told everyone to F off, he admitted it was a hoax and he was angry because some thread of his got deleted

the guy got banned of course, and the believers basically disappeared...the thread was closed and killed.

Tell me, should the skeptics have simply remained quiet while this guy became some sort of ET communicator god to ATS unchallenged...posting pictures he grabs from google for proof and ultimately try to humiliate anyone whom is even slightly interested in the truth?

I never beat up people for accounts of what happened to them, so long as they do not push they know the absolute truth.
If they claim something extraordinary that I should believe in, then they should present some proof. If they just want to discuss an account, I will softball some questions that may or may not be important.

Basically, the more they try to push what they say as the truth, the more I want to believe them, and therefore the more I want to see evidence to their claims.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I really do want to believe. I want to find evidence that simply is out of this world (literally) and conclude that extraterrestrials are indeed visiting (or visited) earth.

I came to ATS because I was very interested in the subject, and after watching a long video by John Lear being interviewed by project camelot, I found my way here (they badmouthed ATS...and figured if they were debunking this guys claims while remaining open about ETs in general, thats where I need to go).

So, you come here, you get excited whenever you see a ET thread..maybe this will finally be it, the smoking gun..the thing that will make me go from skeptical but hopeful to full fledged believer, tin foil hat wearing crystal swinging plejarian calling UFOnaut.

Yet daily and weekly, we get just misunderstood lights in the sky discussions, contrails called ETs, dodgy websites channeling lightships that never show up, booksellers trying to suggest they know something groundbreaking and smashing which never pans out to anything more than conjecture and hypotheticals taken as fact.

I have discovered far more from discoverys "ancient aliens" series than most stuff on ATS. Why is there such trouble bringing quality evidence forward..why is there such a religion of ETs verses a actual investigation on this board?

I want to believe...why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense...so much so that your chasing strong skeptics away and making the subject become less of an investigation and more of a really dumb religion.

And how do we change it..how do we get it back on the right track?

why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense.

Because 93.67% of all humans are still brain washed on the notion that there are still flying saucers, there lost, the shows are lost, and its been embedded in there brains for over 60 years, 60 some years after they turned Kenneth Arnold flying triangle to a SAUCER.

THAT’S THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

My first encounter with a triangle space ship happened on the 18th of November 2007 but before I start, if theres any man made struture as big as the great pyramid then please show conclusive evidence.the triangle spaceship is the same EXACT HEIGHT AND LENGHT AS THE GREAT PYRAMID.And any other triangle is inappropriate in the over active mind.

On this night my life changed as at 3:00 am in the morning, going to the trash something happened that has never happened in my life…(SILENCE) THE WHOLE SURROUNDING AREA GOT SILENT AS IF A SILENT BOMB WAS DROPPED.

When this happened my brain got fizzled for I guess it startled my brain because it wasn’t plausible for something like this to happen.. I guess?

When this happened my brain got fizzled for I guess it startled my brain because it wasn’t plausible for something like this to happen.. I guess?

So I say to my self, maybe this is what they call the calm before the storm..OM MY GOSH A TORNADO IS ABOUT TO TOUCHDOWN IN WASHINGTON DC..

25 to 46 seconds I looked in that one direction because first, I think I was having a panic attack and second because I was trying to understand why in the hell could I hear a conversation between 2 people 3 blocks away so clearly and when the car passed some 2 blocks away I could hear the sound of the keys hitting against the steering wheel ,I thought I was really losing my mind for my heart was not only skipping but my heart started beating very slow…

As I calmed my self down thinking about my family and what to do, I was about to run in the house but I had to keep calm for this wasn’t something that Washington really prepares for.
[First light /first engine]
So I take 2 steps going back south ,and what do I see.. loll a blimp. Why a blimp? Because it was to low to be a plane.. simple as that.

Wow a blimp in dc this is amazing ! I have never in my life ever seen a blimp in Washington Dc ,this is so incredible so I take a deep breath and start laughing to my self .. Why? (Because of the way that the light came out the clouds, the sound of the blimp in the clouds) . I thought right there that’s what made the ground go silent as we all have witnessed a plane coming out the clouds with sound reduction in the air the way it did but to be honest, I think I was just trying to find any rational excuse to tell my self at this point.
[The body]
What in the hell is that ? ,omg, what in the hell, that’s not a blimp, it’s a air plane about to crash in the city.. Why ? because now it was to big to be a blimp and only airplanes at that altitude are basically about to crash ..oh hell no and just as I dial 91

Back 2 lights/back 2 engines

As the 2 back lights came out the clouds forming the formation onto the first light over the football field in length in yards 130 to a 160 yards ,take a 20 yards imperfection in me calculating of how it hovered /flew directly over the schools football field. As the silence was that of nothing even imagined.
it didn’t really amaze me about the length it was the width and the underneath part that really was a shocker to me.

I watched this triangle as I walked down the street in some form of jogging under it for 5 blocks as I got tired.

My true belief in all this is going to disturb the ufo community.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no way possible for any one to no this information unless they have actually and 100 and 50% witnessed ,a real life 100% something triangle driven by something. Period.


But here we go, lets go down memory lane about life, lets go back in time 1 year before Kenneth Arnolds story, a time in which 96% of the USA population believed in angels more then some aliens or flying saucers.

but then Kenneth Arnolds story popped out of the blue.

TO BE HONEST, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER SAID THIS OR SHARED THIS WITH YOU HUMANS.
HE WAS ALSO MAY HAVE BEEN THE FIRST HUMAN TO SEE A TRIANGLE FROM THE TOP SIDE.

What happened that day, set in motion what we call a 'massive big bang in the frequencies of the mind, it was 'inputted' in the wave of the frequencies so fast, that the brains standards of allot of humans are so stuck on saucers, that the brain cannot JUMP into the right sequence to fully understand what they are seeing, in other words ,if you have 100 ufo sights with 1000 members on each and 98% of them are still looking after saucers, the wave frequencies will truth and visions and 'LUCK'..... AND LUCK, goes straight out the door for there are allot of doors that open when you no one truth.

If you have a chance or if you have looked at 'UFO HUNTERS' they failed horribly because, he looked for saucers and he always looked up.

i wrote him on a the hc one time, I asked him, and i quote.

Just wanted to ask you a question bill,im writing a story its a fable for the kids.
[ IN CODE TRYING TO RESPECT HIM AND HIS PERSONNEL ISSUE ON THIS SUBJECT LOL
that’s why i put fable ,kids, story.

So bill, what do you think crashed in Roswell, it will be nice if i had your honest opinion and you’ve pretty much read allot of what i have said on the chi.

bill said, a TRIANGLE SPACE CRAFT.

in fact bill it wasn’t, but just his belief on flying saucers was just not there.

UNTIL YOUR BRAIN GETS JUMPED STARTED ON WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON, EVERY ONE WILL BE LOST....PERIOD !

reply to post by Immortalgemini527

After my encounter I found out a lot of things in my opinion.

1. By looking at the side of the triangle from the angle I was in and it was many, a lot of people that say that they witnessed a tube shape UFO was only looking at either the left or the right side of a flying triangle space ship from a certain angle.

2. I found out first hand that those 3 lights are not lights but 3 separate engines, engines that can be turned off and on separately at will.
[U turn the left engine on and turn the right engine off u can make one of the hardest left turns imaginable vice versa] I believe this is the reason for there highly scientific control power they have as far as flying and the maneuvers they do.

3. Now I realized why it was such a quest to build the pyramids I think the Egyptians was trying to build exactly what they saw that day, a flying pyramid/triangle.
================================================================================

And 4. I honestly think in my opinion that flying saucers never existed.. why?

Because looking at that triangle it broke ALLLLLL barriers to what people have been seeing every since..
The first big cover up in the HISTORY OF UFOLOGY .
THE FLYING TRIANGLE
The very first flying triangle was reported by a man named Kenneth Arnold but the government quickly stepped in and called the Triangle> “flying saucers” and for over 60 some years , ALL WITNESSES in the world have only and will ever see the triangle as the only ufo in the worlds air space.

1 engine turned on = omg I saw a flying saucer
2 engines turned on=omg I saw 2 saucers flying with each other or probes
3 engines turned on = omg I just saw a triangle space ship
1 engine turned on and turns off = omg the saucer was flying then it dissapereared
2 engines turned on and turns off= omg the saucers was flying and then they just disappeared.
3 engines turned on and turned off = the triangle was there then it went into hyper speed and disappeared.

2 triangles 6 engines ,some engines are off and some are on= omg I just saw multiple saucers flying and some was disappearing and some were appearing.
==================================================================================
Summary: The modern phenomena of UFOs and “flying saucers” began in Washington state on June 24, 1947, when Kenneth Arnold spotted nine mysterious, high-speed objects “flying like a saucer would” along the crest of the Cascade Range near Mount Rainier. His report made international headlines and triggered hundreds of similar accounts of “flying saucers” locally and across the nation.
They were flat and rather heel-shaped, very shiny, and they moved erratically, like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water." You can see Arnold's drawing of what he saw here. Arnold estimated their size at about two-thirds that of a DC-4, and he calculated their speed at over 1500 mph by timing their travel between two mountain peaks of known distance.

like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water.
like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water.
like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water.

They took the word saucer and disrespected and disregarded what he actually described and what he also drew,that day to me was the first big cover up in the history of ufoology.

In my opinoin the triangle has and will always be the only ufo in the world.
please look up kenneth arnold and determine your self..by the way roswell happened 2 weeks after the arnold incident.

Thanks, still working up the courage to tell my story...