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I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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I really do want to believe. I want to find evidence that simply is out of this world (literally) and conclude that extraterrestrials are indeed visiting (or visited) earth.

I came to ATS because I was very interested in the subject, and after watching a long video by John Lear being interviewed by project camelot, I found my way here (they badmouthed ATS...and figured if they were debunking this guys claims while remaining open about ETs in general, thats where I need to go).

So, you come here, you get excited whenever you see a ET thread..maybe this will finally be it, the smoking gun..the thing that will make me go from skeptical but hopeful to full fledged believer, tin foil hat wearing crystal swinging plejarian calling UFOnaut.

Yet daily and weekly, we get just misunderstood lights in the sky discussions, contrails called ETs, dodgy websites channeling lightships that never show up, booksellers trying to suggest they know something groundbreaking and smashing which never pans out to anything more than conjecture and hypotheticals taken as fact.

I have discovered far more from discoverys "ancient aliens" series than most stuff on ATS. Why is there such trouble bringing quality evidence forward..why is there such a religion of ETs verses a actual investigation on this board?

I want to believe...why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense...so much so that your chasing strong skeptics away and making the subject become less of an investigation and more of a really dumb religion.

And how do we change it..how do we get it back on the right track?




posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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One mans satellite is another mans spaceship, the subject matter is subjective, therefore is open to interpretation.
We just have to put up with the dross, hopefully oneday the truth will emerge. I have been following ufology for 30 years. Still no real proof, but taking part in the hunt is still Interesting.
What you need to remember is that there is still a chance that there are no ufo's. There is loads of circumstantial evidence, blurry pics, some are obviously fake. Eye witness testimony, etc. Untill then day comes of REAL proof
everything remains subjective.
I for one will still be looking for the smoking gun.

Live long and prosper
edit on 21-1-2011 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2011 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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From what I've seen on here and other sites.....

If you have great information and evidence you'll present it. Otherwise, like some ppl do on here, they get rolled by hoaxers trying to have fun.

Anyone in this area of subject should understand and be intelligent enough to know what to say and what not to say and those that are skeptics and believers usually know how to spot a hoaxer.

Think about what you would do if you had evidence........ probably the same as most honest good people. So when people want to give information w/o credential or proof....... it's kinda obvious to assume hoax.


The search for the truth in this subject is no different than the search ppl do in religion etc..... it's a life long one. And even if ET's did show up tomorrow, they're not gonna answer all the question we will still have answers for.
edit on 21-1-2011 by 11PB11 because: added



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


This is a problem that the UFO community has been dealing with for decades.

Some hold the belief that the circus was created by design to do exactly what it does; discredit the subject and discourage further investigation.

Personally, I think our species has enough fruit loops floating in the bowl to account for it all and then some.

So, yes. The challenge is to wade through the lunatic fringes, sift the disinformation, the video jockey hoaxes, the adolescent Photoshop jobs and then dodge all the desperate housewives and lonesome cowboys who follow the parade in search of romantic rescue or a trip to Orion from ET.

If you want some good, straightforward reading on the subject, I highly recommend the book,
'UFOs - Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record' by Leslie Kean.


edit on 21-1-2011 by redoubt because: Structural edit



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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I loved this thread. I am headed to the library today. Before the disinformation began.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Your ideas of.. somehow finding or waiting for the smoking gun is vary immature and unrealistic.

People get excited about the aliens and ufo subject with the expectation that it means the end of the world as we know it. The reality is right now.. you are here.. your expressing interest in a change in the status of your world and reality.. yet somehow the judgement call is.. Until theres a video of some unintentional sighting anyone with common sense cant explain away your dejected because its not enough to defy your conventions.

You aren't the center of the galaxy. neither is this subject. So why would it unveil itself to you personally?

Simple answer. it wont. Until you make a personal decision to get to the bottom of it yourself till that time other people should not be a factor in you view of personal subjects.




ATS.. Is a television show.. of popular opinion. People trying to interact on a personal level with too many above or below them in experience and learned knowledge.

ATS is an internet mob. A heard of sheep bawing. Dont look here for ufos. Read peoples accounts. sure. see the vids? sure. Participate in discussion in the subject? this place is no longer the place to do that. because its become the world of opinion. and there is nothing special left here.

inb4: Then why post, boy that was depressing, why dont you... (insert noun/verb) this or that, star and flag.

Its an opinion. difficulty and differences implied and expected. response not contracted.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 

I hear you!
These are the reasons why nobody can be believed. Im sure there is real stuff out there but because there is so much faked its hard to believe anyone when they do post something that may be presumed legit.

How do I create UFO Hoax?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by JohnieG
reply to post by SaturnFX
 

I hear you!
These are the reasons why nobody can be believed. Im sure there is real stuff out there but because there is so much faked its hard to believe anyone when they do post something that may be presumed legit.

How do I create UFO Hoax?


Amazing, isn't it.
The hoaxing being mainstream. I am wondering if other such things should go into mainstream hoaxing for a laugh and to corrupt science.

We take great joy in creating disinformation.

My theory on hoaxers...they dated someone whom said they love them, only to find out it was a lie and they were using them..so, this is a subconscious punch back at the world for the deception they had to endure.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Couldn’t agree more!

I don’t really want to believe, rather I want the truth and I believe the truth is either that we are not alone in the universe or have indeed been visited at some point in the past by ET. The problem is on ATS there are literally hundreds of not thousands of people making a series of really dumb claims founded in their religion of conspiracy rather than actual facts. This makes it very hard to believe, and unfortunately its not just on the UFO forum its everywhere, and when we point this out, we’re part of the evil NWO plot to suppress the truth. The real truth is that people on ATS are not interested in the truth, they are interested in the spectacular yet fictitious “conspiracy theories” that ultimately mean nothing and have no basis in fact.

Good thread S&F for you sir.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
My theory on hoaxers...they dated someone whom said they love them, only to find out it was a lie and they were using them..so, this is a subconscious punch back at the world for the deception they had to endure.


I love the fact you gave them a backstory. I might adopt that myself to make it easier tolerating them.

I read your thread 57 secs after it was posted Saturn....and I can't think of anything to say and so have watched the responses come in and can only offer the fallacy of hope.

It's my observation that you are dealing with absolute, utter, no compromising on totality, genuine idiots when talking to some believers.

Those who accept it can be the case that there is alien crafts visiting Earth aren't those I'm labelling here. Because they can accept the fact that it might be something else too. Being open to all possibilities is the very definition of scepticism.

No, it's the ones that know these are alien crafts. Knowing without proof is as stupid as seeing without eyes or hearing without ears. Sure things can be inferred on a different level when you are missing a sense - but the actual act of sensing without the input for that sense is not possible.

The fruitloops that make wild claims which will never have supporting evidence only justifies my intolerance of them to a degree of absolute hatred. Religion had a purpose. It may have required blind acceptance and had more than a few punishments, be it social or even legal at some points, but it established trade routes, standards and common cultural norms.

Believing in one person's version of what UFOs are does nothing for society. There is no development at the end of the process. It's just a simple game of pretend that will end with the believer being out of pocket and potentially mentally unsound. It's a game with no winners.

Whilst myself and probably many others are genuinely intrigued by the notion of unidentified flying objects and work towards figuring them out - we're not doing it to help the helpless. We, as a species, have learned much about our universe and every god of the unknown has become academia and common enough knowledge.

If and when we know what UFOs are, or have been, then it won't be believers writing the books. It will be scientists and people making conclusions based on observations - verifiable by their peers or anyone with access to the research.

So while Billy-Bob and Mary-Sue can heehaw it up with a six pack and a camera and extol abuse at anyone who questions their claims - we will win in the end. And our children will laugh and make parodies of these idiots as we do now about those who thought that 4 elements made up existence, that witches floated or that the world was flat.

Use it as entertainment is my advise, and have fun at their expense.

-m0r



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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the most compelling evidence I think is not a grainy ufo tape but the fact that throughout history there have been stories of disc shaped objects popping up in caves, paintings, rumors, and literature. Just consider the fact that the pyramids in Egypt, the Aztec temples in Mexico, stonehenge in england, all have something to do with astronomy and the way the stars and planets line up, oftentimes with extreme precision. Combine this with the fact that most of these alien stories involve reptiles, and the reptile theme is echoed in different cultures such as satan the snake in christianity, the reptile gods in maya and other traditions, the chinese dragons, etc. I think these stories are more intriguing then someone trying to capture a ufo on their cell phone.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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so you want to believe, then believe, do not take what you see in print as fact or proof that there is no such thing as ET's or UFO's, for one day they will come and all will be put in to his or her place and i for one will say told you so!
so where is the proof? this is the $64,000 or in today's market $1,000,000.00 question. do i have proof no wish i did, but then would that be enough? if ET was here and i think he/she is, only DNA can prove this and then would that be made public? space ship well that too could be said not real unless you could go for a ride in it, then there is them that would say Gov made. so do not lose hope keep looking for one day they just might say hi were here.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Some people will never believe no matter how much you try to convinve them, until the are confronted with the reality of aliens/UFO's on their own terms. With the overwhelming amount of 'evidence" on the net available for you to learn from, it is you who chooses not to accept the truth.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 



I want to believe...why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense...so much so that your chasing strong skeptics away and making the subject become less of an investigation and more of a really dumb religion.

I think the flux of new members, many who are new to the game of ufology, have not been exposed to the scrutiny that ats can provide. They see a utube vid, get excited and come here with a one liner. This does kind of cloud the waters but it seems to be an inevitable part of the speculation process these days.
I think last years record sales and popularity of chinese lanterns injected a lot of fluff to the field too. I personally think C Lanterns is what made Phage want to take a break, but that's just my opinion.

So, today I ran across a vid that renewed my investigative hope and I am considering doing a thread on it.



peace,
spec
edit on 21-1-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
And how do we change it..how do we get it back on the right track?


We don't. There is a concerted effort to keep it going down the new track. Old good reports are disappearing (Karl 12 did a thread on the missing files). I see the dates Jan to June 2008 on many leads I search as being the dates that files were removed from the internet (Way back machine) Several times I run into 'blocked by robot" or "access denied" messages on the archive search so it is impossible to pull up an old copy.

For every good story out there , you will find 10 people who jump on it and twist it around, and another hundred that add onto that... 2012 stuff is a prime example on how it's gone out of control.

You want answers? Talk directly to the people involved. Edgar Mitchell is talking... pick up the phone and chat with him. ( no I won't post his number
) Unless you do the legwork, follow the leads yourself, knock on doors, file FOIA requests etc... you will NEVER get close to any truth.

You mention John got you into this... well same here. When I started at ATS earnestly in Oct 2006, I ran into John's stuff and though most of it was really way out there. But unlike most people who just called it BS and started the attacks, I took some time to follow the clues he left. In a few short months I managed to get independent confirmations on a lot of what he was saying.

Since then, and as a result of my posting here and my website, I have been contacted by many people 'on the inside' These people are not in the circuit, they are not writing books or on UFO speaking tours. They give me clues to follow, keywords to search for and sometime direct links to info that IS in public domain, but you wouldn't find it if you didn't know it was there, where to look and WHAT to look for.

You would be surprised at how many in high places will talk if you are serious. However bear in mind that these people have something at stake and will talk to you once they are sure they can trust you. In other words, sometimes what they tell you is in confidence, and you must follow the lead without dragging their name into it.

Trust me it SUCKS sometimes to know something but you can't tell it because you can't drop names


You would also be surprised at how many high level people, including many that are in the intel business, hang out on ATS and they are not here to bust people
Once you ferret them out (not hard if you pay attention to some posts and read between the lines) you will be amazed at the info you get (No you can't have a list
)

You have to learn to seek truth using your sub conscious 'gut feeling' to separate the truth from the BS. Once you do that you will be immune to the trolls and skepto-bunkers



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by filosophia
 
that is still not enough for the die hard non believers, look at the flood in the bible, then look at the earths terrain and tell me there was no world flood, yes i believe in that too, what gets me is the proof is there and people say no not so??? one and one =2 it also make 3,4,5, and6 and in some cases 8. and with today's know how it only takes one. think this through be fore you reply. and come tomorrow 20 years if that, one from none. we already have one from one.
Some with in the circle have come forward but are soon but down shut up or called nut jobs, why ?? to discredit them.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by whyamIhere
I loved this thread. I am headed to the library today. Before the disinformation began.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yes that is a great one...

Take my word for it... pay attention to this fellow



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Some people aren't "believers"- they KNOW ET's exist. Abudctees would say with 100% certainty that ET's exist and are doing hybridization programs. Some think its the government, just because they have ET technology, and they may be true too, but ET's are also doing abductions to perpetuate their kind.

I have friends that were abudctees and have hybrid babies. They even met their babies. Sounds outrageous, I know- its hard to BELIEVE, oh well. But, some of us KNOW its real. We dont need belief because we've experienced it first hand. Dreams are different then abductions.. And abductees come back with needle marks, implants, and cool stories!!

The reason why we get no good video or photo footage is because they come from another dimension.s. They come from outside our perceived reality and from a higher vibration (outside our spectrum of light- thats how they can travel so fast- they are outside the speed of light). When my friend was abducted she said everything was real blurry when she was in the spaceship- its because these beings are of another dimension/ higher vibration.

Quantum physics, string theory, super string theory, many worlds theory, are all beginning to understand more of our reality. I guess you could say ET's come from a higher vibrational string (outside our spectrum of light) and when they come in to our reality its just perceived as bright lights because the reality they come from is beyond our light spectrum, so its very bright.

A fact is people have claimed to be abducted and come back with marks and implants.

Who's doing the abducting and implanting?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by bekod
one and one =2


Well... when you say 1 'and' 1 it could make 11
and 1 + 1 can make 10, all depends on the frame of reference. That is a big problem with information. It is rarely clear and to the point and open to interpretation



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
I personally think C Lanterns is what made Phage want to take a break, but that's just my opinion.


You could very well be correct. However consider how some very polite and well mannered sceptics were treated (ie. Banned) in this thread and you'll see a different potential reason for Phage to depart.

I think it's possible that he took his user generated content elsewhere to make money for others who appreciated intelligent responses to wild claims.

-m0r







 
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