Chinese Nukes Aimed at US Cities

Originally posted by spidergooch
This thread is one of the ugliest I have read!

You can't deny that the Chinese are being arrogant here. American Mad Man is just defending slanderous remarks from the people who would rather see us ( The United States) destoyed.

We happen to live in a country that is far better and stronger than theirs.

It's not they hate us for being strong.

They hate themselves for being weak!

Originally posted by Intelearthling
You can't deny that the Chinese are being arrogant here. American Mad Man is just defending slanderous remarks from the people who would rather see us ( The United States) destoyed.

We happen to live in a country that is far better and stronger than theirs.

It's not they hate us for being strong.

They hate themselves for being weak!

And you hate yourself for being so HIGH-laree-oos-lee comedic!

"They hate themselves for being weak! I have self-esteem!" The funniest thing I've ever read!

Spider is right. This is the kind of stuff a 2nd-grade counselor would teach the kids to say!

I say we give you all firearms and RPGs and have a 24-hour deathmatch

The reference to ugly had nothing to do with the Chinese arrogance, or really anything to do with the topic at hand. I was referring to the use of terms like "Idiot", "Un-American" to name a few.

Regardless of how you slice it, one atmoic weapon hitting US soil is too much, and having an military of 2 million, (The US) as opposed to a manpower pool of 200 million, (available Chinese trained troops) cannot be a comforting thought regardless of our technological dominance.

Thus, I would not want to be the grunt that had to face down several hundred to one Chinese from my fighting position. But that's just me.

The Spider

Originally posted by spidergooch
This thread is one of the ugliest I have read!

Since when is talking about hypothetical situations (a war with China), and reviewing history un-American?

I served in the 2d Ranger Battalion. I had the honor of serving with some really great and brave patriots. I also know plenty of great and brave patriots who never served.

I would like to think that we could disagree agreeably. So AMM couldn't serve. SO WHAT! He has the same right to discuss, think and disagree as any other member of a free society.

Or should we start to determine who has the right to discuss issues in a forum. Perhaps only veteran's should vote? How about veterans who served their country but not in wartime. Is there service any less valid?

I know, let's only allow veteran's with the correct MOS to vote. Only veterans from combat arms units with the right job can vote. Wouldn't want the guy in the arms room, or the motor pool to get mixed up with us American's with the real combat experience. Give me a break!

I agree. It is a terrible thing, war and combat. It is horrible for the grunt, no matter what advantage you may have, your friend lying dead in your arms is horrible. But we would be ignorant to not explore the possibility of future conflicts, especially since those in power, regardless of the party, will make those, and impose those decisions upon those who serve, and those who wait at home for them.

Sorry for the run on here,
I was a little frustrated by the tone of the conversation.

The Spider

Thanks - and that was exactly my point. Discussion of war does not make one warhungry, an idiot, or un-American, as a few here would have everyone believe. The fact is that a lot of people hate when Americans actually say they would win (in anything, not just war) and thus aply terms like ignorant and arrogant on them.

Well, I apologize if I hurt anyones feelings by saying that the US could prevent China from invading Taiwon, but thats my opinion. And it isn't simply an opinion I arived at just because I am American - it came from a solid foundation in fact - such as the fact that China does not have the ability to move all of her forces to taiwan, andd the fact that the US has Air and Sea superiority over China.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I say we give you all firearms and RPGs and have a 24-hour deathmatch

Now that wouldn't be fair - I am a much better shot then any of these chinese folk

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Now that wouldn't be fair - I am a much better shot then any of these chinese folk

Hmm... that's debatable.

Originally posted by spidergooch
This thread is one of the ugliest I have read!
I served in the 2d Ranger Battalion. I had the honor of serving with some really great and brave patriots. I also know plenty of great and brave patriots who never served.

Thanks for offering your opinion on this thread.

The core questions needed to be answered in this thread are:

1. In case of Taiwan seeking Independence, the war of Taiwan strait is started. Do you think US should intervene by attacking PLA and supporting Taiwan forces?

2. What is your guess on the outcome of US intervention in Taiwan strait, like what will be outcome, what's the cost of US lifes, etc.

Since you are a veteran, you understand what war means to all parties involved, especially between two giants like US and China.

I greatly appreciate your opinion on above two questions.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Now that wouldn't be fair - I am a much better shot then any of these chinese folk

Sure, even though you are a lame duck.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Now that wouldn't be fair - I am a much better shot then any of these chinese folk

Sure, even though you are a lame duck.

In case you dodn't get it - that was a joke.

But yeah - I'd say i am probably a better shot then you or any of your commrads. I have been shooting since I could pick up a gun, have shot in (and won) quite a few contests, own several different guns myself (AR-15, Ruger Mini-14, Browning High Power 9mm and 40 cal, Sig 9mm among others). So i'd put my money on myself.

And as for being a "lame duck" - first off this has ZERO to do with shooting, second I am in very good shape. I just can't make hard cuts anymore with my knee (had to say goodby to football and basketball unfortunately).

So how about you Zcheng? Do you shoot? Are you allowed to shoot if you are not in the military (genuin question, not trying to start a flame war)?

Originally posted by American Mad Man
So how about you Zcheng? Do you shoot? Are you allowed to shoot if you are not in the military (genuin question, not trying to start a flame war)?

I have only shoot 6 bullets during the exercise before entering the University in China. So I guess you will win, if we stand still. In battlefield, it will be a little different, since I can move a little quicker.

I know your confidence in US millitary. You also have to understand that there will be no winner in case US intervene in Taiwan Strait.

I welcome you to visit China anytime. US and China should be friends, not enemies.

Originally posted by zcheng
I have only shoot 6 bullets during the exercise before entering the University in China. So I guess you will win, if we stand still. In battlefield, it will be a little different, since I can move a little quicker.

You got me there - if my knee went out I'd be an easy target

I know your confidence in US millitary. You also have to understand that there will be no winner in case US intervene in Taiwan Strait.

Well, I think it would be a very bloody war - and from this prospective I agree - especially if it went nuclear. If it didn't though, I believe the US could prevent China from taking and holding Taiwan - albiet at a large cost to human life on both sides.

I welcome you to visit China anytime. US and China should be friends, not enemies.

I actually almost went there this summer on buisness, but it did not work out. I have heard wonderfull things about China though. As far as us being firends, I completely agree

My opinions about a war does not mean that I wish to see one.

[edit on 11-9-2004 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Intelearthling
You can't deny that the Chinese are being arrogant here. American Mad Man is just defending slanderous remarks from the people who would rather see us ( The United States) destoyed.

We happen to live in a country that is far better and stronger than theirs.

It's not they hate us for being strong.

They hate themselves for being weak!

And you hate yourself for being so HIGH-laree-oos-lee comedic!

"They hate themselves for being weak! I have self-esteem!" The funniest thing I've ever read!

Spider is right. This is the kind of stuff a 2nd-grade counselor would teach the kids to say!

I say we give you all firearms and RPGs and have a 24-hour deathmatch

It's my assumption that you're the one who's H-I-I-I-I-G-G-H-H.

Are you the psychotic enemy, lurking inthe midsts of middle America, waiting to thrust your venemous beliefs on unsuspecting people who have a weak mindset or just plain sarcastic?

Firearms and RPGs? What is this, the twentieth century? You want to fight a war ineffectively my friend. Try swinging on over to the twenty-first century where we'll do it right. With arm wrestling!

1. In case of Taiwan seeking Independence, the war of Taiwan strait is started. Do you think US should intervene by attacking PLA and supporting Taiwan forces?

2. What is your guess on the outcome of US intervention in Taiwan strait, like what will be outcome, what's the cost of US lifes, etc.

Since you are a veteran, you understand what war means to all parties involved, especially between two giants like US and China.

I greatly appreciate your opinion on above two questions.

I do believe that the United States is obligated to support Taiwan. I think US military action could only be in response to an actual invasion of Taiwan. I could see PLA imposing an embargo or blockade to first test the US resolve. US action would then be tested in measure.

2. Unless the conflict could be contained regionally, which would be difficult, I believe the losses would be staggering at both the tactical and strategic level. If the PLA was not in a position to deal a swift victory against the Island, a nuclear strike against the US fleet might take place, followed by escalating levels of nuclear exchanges. If would cause catastrophic civilian casualties reardless of the victor.

The Spider

Originally posted by spidergooch
I do believe that the United States is obligated to support Taiwan. I think US military action could only be in response to an actual invasion of Taiwan. I could see PLA imposing an embargo or blockade to first test the US resolve. US action would then be tested in measure.

2. Unless the conflict could be contained regionally, which would be difficult, I believe the losses would be staggering at both the tactical and strategic level. If the PLA was not in a position to deal a swift victory against the Island, a nuclear strike against the US fleet might take place, followed by escalating levels of nuclear exchanges. If would cause catastrophic civilian casualties reardless of the victor.

The Spider

A sad prospect ahead indeed. There is no way for China to accept Taiwan Indepdence. US intervention will escalate to become the war between US and China, with devastating consequences to both nations. China has been preparing for such intervention at least for the past decade. I hope it can be avoided, but if US do intervene, China will fight till the end.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by spidergooch
I do believe that the United States is obligated to support Taiwan. I think US military action could only be in response to an actual invasion of Taiwan. I could see PLA imposing an embargo or blockade to first test the US resolve. US action would then be tested in measure.

2. Unless the conflict could be contained regionally, which would be difficult, I believe the losses would be staggering at both the tactical and strategic level. If the PLA was not in a position to deal a swift victory against the Island, a nuclear strike against the US fleet might take place, followed by escalating levels of nuclear exchanges. If would cause catastrophic civilian casualties reardless of the victor.

The Spider

A sad prospect ahead indeed. There is no way for China to accept Taiwan Indepdence. US intervention will escalate to become the war between US and China, with devastating consequences to both nations. China has been preparing for such intervention at least for the past decade. I hope it can be avoided, but if US do intervene, China will fight till the end.

Why can't China accept Taiwan's independence? Is the Chinese government that overbearing?

What's the latest on the nuclear device detonated by North Korea earlier today?

I'm not here to fuss or ridicule.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Why can't China accept Taiwan's independence? Is the Chinese government that overbearing?

What's the latest on the nuclear device detonated by North Korea earlier today?

I'm not here to fuss or ridicule.

Why can not the North accept the South Independence? Is the Federal government that overbearing? I'm not here to fuss or ridicule.

I do not know that detonation.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
What's the latest on the nuclear device detonated by North Korea earlier today?

I'm not here to fuss or ridicule.

It is US nuke strike against NK, similar to the one exploded in the train station.

Since the blast is near Missile base according to CNN, I believe this is preemptive tactical nuke strike against North Korea with symbolism of 9/11.

If it were nuke test of NK, would not anyone test it in a remote region? At least not so close to Chinese border?

I will wait and see how NK respond.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Intelearthling
What's the latest on the nuclear device detonated by North Korea earlier today?

I'm not here to fuss or ridicule.

It is US nuke strike against NK, similar to the one exploded in the train station.

Since the blast is near Missile base according to CNN, I believe this is preemptive tactical nuke strike against North Korea with symbolism of 9/11.

If it were nuke test of NK, would not anyone test it in a remote region? At least not so close to Chinese border?

I will wait and see how NK respond.

Zcheng - buddy - you really need to wake up and stop blaming the US for everything. If we wanted to nuke someone, we wouldn't miss our target (in this case a missle base in your theory). The US can put a nuclear missle through the uprights of a football cross bar - no joke. This was no nuclear strike on the US's part.

As for why they tested it close to China - you forget, the US has said it would like China to handle this situation, since it is "in your neck of the woods" and you are the local power. China isn't very happy that the North has nukes, just like the US. You see, they pose as much a danger to China as to the United States.

You want to be friends with the US - well this is a great time to start. There is a clear unstable nuclear power on your doorstep that presents a mutual threat to both the US and China.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
You want to be friends with the US - well this is a great time to start. There is a clear unstable nuclear power on your doorstep that presents a mutual threat to both the US and China.

Do you think if China prevented NK from getting nukes, US will not mess in Taiwan strait? China want to be friends of US, but US is regarding China as the enemy.

Originally posted by zcheng
Do you think if China prevented NK from getting nukes, US will not mess in Taiwan strait? China want to be friends of US, but US is regarding China as the enemy.

To be honest, no. NK is as much your problem as it is ours. We want you to take care of Kim for the WORLDS good - not just ours or yours but south Koreas, Japans, Australias, Europes ect. As far as Taiwan goes, the only way the US would not get involved is if it was peacefull. If Taiwan wanted to be it's own nation, the US would support that. If China really wants Taiwan, they need to do it PEACEFULLY, or else they will find a tougher kid on the block protecting Taiwan.

I would like to say that the US does not view China as an Enemy, but more as a competitor.

That being said, I am using this quote to demonstrate the situation - "is the enemy of your enemy, your friend? or your enemy?" In this case we have a mutual threat - NK. Now, we could use are combined power to resolve the situation, or we could work against each other. The US would prefer that China takes care of this situation, as it is your "sphere of influence" so to speak, and would go a long way towards showing China has a powrfull place in world politics.