Chinese Nukes Aimed at US Cities

Originally posted by goldenboy
Idiot. your mirror was probably made in China.

Is this you, zcheng under an assumed username? If it's not, then there's another one like you out there! Oh, yeah. My mirror is made in Taiwan, not China.

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by goldenboy
Again, I wish to reiterate that a war with China is a no win war for either USA or China, and certainly the world. We should try to promote peaceful co-existence. The Chinese are not a warring country. Their culture is relatively a peaceful one. In the early 1400s, China was the most advanced sea faring nation on earth. Their largest ships were almost the size of aircraft carriers today, completely dwarfing spanish ships. They travelled extensively around the world, some believe they discovered Australia, and the Americas, and Chinese seafaring maps were used by the west later to discover America. But the Chinese did not go to loot, and steal. They went to learn, and trade peacefully. Why do Americans fear Chinese? we shouldn't fear them. We should recognize they are a competitor yes, but not necessarily an enemy.

A man of Wisdom indeed.

Let's promote understanding between US and Chinese people!

Originally posted by goldenboy
Again, I wish to reiterate that a war with China is a no win war for either USA or China, and certainly the world. We should try to promote peaceful co-existence. The Chinese are not a warring country. Their culture is relatively a peaceful one. In the early 1400s, China was the most advanced sea faring nation on earth. Their largest ships were almost the size of aircraft carriers today, completely dwarfing spanish ships. They travelled extensively around the world, some believe they discovered Australia, and the Americas, and Chinese seafaring maps were used by the west later to discover America. But the Chinese did not go to loot, and steal. They went to learn, and trade peacefully. Why do Americans fear Chinese? we shouldn't fear them. We should recognize they are a competitor yes, but not necessarily an enemy.

The Chinese people may not be a warring people, but the communists are, and under communist rule, the peoplpe will do what the communist government says or else face imprisonment or death! I'm sorry, but under a communist rule, you can't protest or negotiate with government .

originally posted by zcheng
A man of Wisdom indeed.

I threw a cigarette butt down a few minutes ago with a helluva lot more wisdom!

Let's promote understanding between US and Chinese people!

I will never understand how people can allow themselves to be subjugated like the Chinese people allows themselves to be!

NEVER!

You want a war? Go to war with your own government! We did with ours (which was an oppressive British rule at the time), 228 years ago, and won!

There is just absolutely no way in hell you can tell me that you're happy over there!

Oh, I forgot. Your government will tell you what to say.

My bad.



[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I'm sorry, but under a communist rule, you can't protest or negotiate with government .

Of course, Bush heeded the massive protest before the Iraq war. You are the representative of the negotiation?

I will never understand how people can allow themselves to be subjugated like the Chinese people allows themselves to be!

Of course, you will never understand with your brain, the size of an ant.

Originally posted by zcheng
Of course, you will never understand with your brain, the size of an ant.

You so funny zcheng You go be comedy? No?

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by zcheng
Of course, you will never understand with your brain, the size of an ant.

You so funny zcheng

You go be comedy? No?

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Have yourself amused.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
You don't know what you're talking about and you still don't know what victory means. Let's say I get beat up real bad because I didn't give the guy 20 bucks. I may get beat up real bad, but as long as I don't give up the money, I've won. Do you understand now?

Again, WHEN DID I EVER MENTION VICTORY? Do you have reading problems? I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT VICTORY IN 'NAM. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. What I said was that the US was clearly the superior force, and had we been allowed to invade, we would have (agin, had we been allowed to) won.

"Dominating" the enemy means nothing if you eventually don't get what you want. The other guy might be the crap outta me, but it does him no good if I never give him the $20, or he finds out I never had $20 bucks. So he basically loses, because he wasted his time for nothing and is possibly on the verge of getting his @$$ kicked himself, arrested, or even killed.

Yes, I understand your contention man, but you are talking about something completely differently then I am. I am speaking of the superiority of the US military in vietnam. NOT THE OUTCOME. I then said that because of this, IF we had been allowed to go on the offensive, we would have taken the north, and thus probably won the war. Do you get it yet?

Your entire response shows you have no idea what victory is. To you, victory is kicking the other guy's @$$. Maybe to an extent, but using my example from earlier, the guy who beats me up wasn't trying to beat me up, he was triyng to get $20! If I just gave him the $20, he probably wouldn't have beat me up and he wins. Why? Because he got what he wanted! If he beats me up but never gets the $20, he's basically lost, because he wasted all his energy and didn't get what he wanted!

See above.

And I read what you wrote. Sorry, but a lot of stuff was in reference to your statement about the Korean War, which was wrong. America nor China got anything they wanted. That's why they call it a stalemate.

It was not a stalemate. The US led UN army drove the invaders out of South Korea. That was the objective. Hence, it was a victory. I suppose if you had wanted to take China or the North as well, then you could call it a stalemate, but the objective, much like GW 1, was to drive an invader out of an allies territory.

That's why you're the one who needs to learn history, not the rest of us.

Maybe going to war is good for you. Sometiems you have to fight a war to learn victory is not ensured by simply kicking somebody's @$$.

If you think that the korean war was a stalemate, you need to go back to college. If you haven't been yet then I will forgive your ignorance.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
If you think that the korean war was a stalemate, you need to go back to college. If you haven't been yet then I will forgive your ignorance.

It took a lot of courage of you to say that at least.

Originally posted by goldenboy
What makes you think China is incapable of sending probes to outer space? The same technology that launches a satellite is also used to launch probes. It's also the same technology that is used in ICBMs. And believe me, China is planning a trip to the Moon.

Again, please do not assume what I mean. I never said they were incapable. Never once. I said that untill they do that, among other things, they will be behind the US. Just because you may be able to do something does not mean you have achieved it.

USA might've done this 40 years ago, but that in no way diminishes China's achievements. Japan who is one of the most technologically advanced nations on earth has had problems after problems with their space program. Their H2 rocket malfunctions, blows up, or their satellite fails to get into orbit. Same for European Union. Lately, USA has had some difficulty with their space program. Ironically, its the Chinese that have consistently launched satellite after satellite successfully. The same technology that launches satellites is the same that launches nuclear warheads. Remember that.

Jesus, come on man - the first thing I said was that sending a man to space was a great accomplishment. Stop trying to make it out like I am belittleing China. I just say it how it is. Untill you guys send a man to the moon and send probes to other planets, it is premature to compare your space prowess with ours.

As far as satellites, the US has hundreds of them up their - that hasn't been the problem we have had. The most recent problem was a probe collecting samples from the sun. Has any other country even attempted that? No. Thus, there is some trial and error in revolutionary technology.

As for the Vietnam war, you can make all the excuses you want. USA lost that war. They were the aggressor, invading a country that did not threaten them and posed no danger. These aggressors had superior technology, yet they lost to a primitive country that refused to lose. Never discount the will of a nation.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! THE US WAS THE AGGRESSOR? ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF HISTORY????? THE US WAS NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO ATTACK THE NORTH!!!!! HOW COULD WE HAVE BEEN THE AGROSSORS????????

Please, do not even continue the discussion on Vietnam untill you have a clue about what you speak. DENY IGNORANCE!

Some here make outrageously arrogant claims to USA hegemony. They brag about it's technology and might, and are so pro-war that these morons blindly want to instigate a war all over the war as though it is a game, and forget that real war is bloody. I would like to see people like American Mad Man sign up for the next war so that they can learn the lessons of war, which is, don't go to war unless you have to.

I have never been pro war for the sake of war. That is exactly the reason why ChiComs getting their panties bunched up over Taiwan pisses me off. You speak of avoiding war, yet you are all for taking Taiwan by force. Are you so threatened by Taiwan that you must attack her if she wishes to be her own nation? I think not. So why don't you stop talking like you have to attack Taiwan and invade her if she won't submit to China.

The Vietnam war should've taught USA the lessons that war should never be a tool for politics. It's sad that despite tens of thousands of dead American soliders, politics, and ignorant Americans are bloodthirsty for more war.

If you are so opposed that war should not be used for political gain, then you should condem the north for attacking the south. You also seem to support the Chinese and Russian support of the Korean war. In short, you are a hypocrit. But then again you are so blindly ignorant that you believe the US attacked the North in Vietnam.

Again, I wish to reiterate that a war with China is a no win war for either USA or China, and certainly the world. We should try to promote peaceful co-existence. The Chinese are not a warring country. Their culture is relatively a peaceful one.

Then don't threaten Taiwan. Period. If you are so opposed to war, then fight against it. If you believe a China/US war would be bad, then speak out against hostility towards Taiwan, because I can assure you the US will come to defend her.

In the early 1400s, China was the most advanced sea faring nation on earth. Their largest ships were almost the size of aircraft carriers today, completely dwarfing spanish ships. They travelled extensively around the world, some believe they discovered Australia, and the Americas, and Chinese seafaring maps were used by the west later to discover America. But the Chinese did not go to loot, and steal. They went to learn, and trade peacefully.

Uhhh - what does this have to do with anything we are talking about?

Why do Americans fear Chinese? we shouldn't fear them. We should recognize they are a competitor yes, but not necessarily an enemy.

Fear is not the right word. We recognize their plans to invade a friend of ours, and thus call you out on it. If Taiwan were to peacefully return to China - hey, no problems - but if you were to invade, we would repell this act of agression.

But on the fact that we should live together in harmony, I completely agree

EDIT: Quote problems

[edit on 9-9-2004 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Maybe if the US tried to invade China, you may have a point, but anywhere else China would get its ass kicked. The Chinese have actually been down sizing their army, probably to redce targets

Do you realize the stupidity of the comment you just wrote? "Anywhere else?" What else can China fight in? It is not an offensive force, therefore, invasion, etc. is out of the question. Which leaves only one thing, defense. So OBVIOUSLY, China will fight only in the case of being invaded. Goodness, actually learn about the doctrine of their military before acting all "we can kick your ass!" about it.

China has a defensive policy ? Pull your head out of your A$$. Is that why China invaded Tibet, is that why they went to war with India in 1962 and stole their land ? is that why they tried to invade North Vietnam in 1978 and got such a bloody nose they had to retreat ?

Why do you think China is desperately trying to build up their blu water navy and increase the range of their air force ?

America would never want to invade China, there is no benefit. Why would the US want the responsibility of looking after a billion screaming chinese ?
So in any forseeable conflict with China the US would kick their A$$.

You obviously don't know what your talking about do you ? You make me laugh. Keep posting please, make a bigger fool of yourself.

So what you're saying is America's space program was also for false pride? It's symbiosis here. If one nation putting a man into space was for false pride, then us putting Alan Shepherd into space for the first time was for false pride too. Maybe even the Apollo missions. And that last sentence was funny!

Do you ever run out of stupid things to say?

America's program was a pioneering effort and the benefits to science are obvious. The Chinese space program is yet another attempt by them to be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
American Mad Man?

You look like you been holding the fort down by yourself (apologies to anyone else who's been defending America here, I'll need to read all the postings)? These people have lost their minds. Hell, we'll take'em all on! Great job you got going on here, though.

SO BRING IT ON, YOU ANTI-AMERICAN COMMIE LOVERS!

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

LOL - yeah, I can't get enough of these guys - especially the ChiComs. One just said that the US was the agressor in Vietnam. In a different thread Zcheng even said that the US was using biological weapons against China, and thats why they have SARS

Originally posted by mad scientist
China has a defensive policy ? Pull your head out of your A$$. Is that why China invaded Tibet, is that why they went to war with India in 1962 and stole their land ? is that why they tried to invade North Vietnam in 1978 and got such a bloody nose they had to retreat ?

Your ignorance is absolutely astonishing.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by mad scientist
China has a defensive policy ? Pull your head out of your A$$. Is that why China invaded Tibet, is that why they went to war with India in 1962 and stole their land ? is that why they tried to invade North Vietnam in 1978 and got such a bloody nose they had to retreat ?

Your ignorance is absolutely astonishing.

My ignorance ? Do you deny any of this ? If you do I would like to know why because these arfe all established facts. Stop being a coward and respond with facts

Originally posted by mad scientist
My ignorance ? Do you deny any of this ? If you do I would like to know why because these arfe all established facts. Stop being a coward and respond with facts

Please find the documents that support your claims, esp with regards of conflict with India and Vietnam, when and why China retreated.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by mad scientist
My ignorance ? Do you deny any of this ? If you do I would like to know why because these arfe all established facts. Stop being a coward and respond with facts

Please find the documents that support your claims, esp with regards of conflict with India and Vietnam, when and why China retreated.

Forty years ago, the Indian nation was convulsed by fear and eventual humiliation as its army was vanquished by the Chinese People's Liberation Army in a bitter and cold battle in the Northeast.
TODAY
Get out of the shadow
Dr Wang Hongwei

Forty years later, India has repaired its relationship with the Chinese to some extent, but those wounds have not been forgotten.

Excuses have been thrown up for the military debacle. India was ill prepared; it believed in non-violence; it trusted the Chinese and in 'Hindi-Chini bhai bhai'. Fingers have been pointed, most famously at then prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru, defence minister Krishna Menon, and Lieutenant General B N Kaul, who was in charge of the army on India's eastern frontier.

After the war, India claimed that China was occupying about 33,000 square kilometres of its territory in the Aksai Chin region of Ladakh. China claimed that India was occupying 90,000 square kilometres; Beijing claims the entire state of Arunachal Pradesh as its territory.

www.rediff.com...

Twenty-five years ago this week, China invaded Vietnam. The invasion came after months of tension between the two communist neighbors. The Chinese attack was prompted by Vietnam's decision to invade Cambodia and remove the Chinese-backed Khmer Rouge. The 1979 border war between China and Vietnam was over quickly, with the Chinese retreating after heavy losses.
www.npr.org...

Try and BS yourself out of this one

Originally posted by mad scientist
Forty years ago, the Indian nation was convulsed by fear and eventual humiliation as its army was vanquished by the Chinese People's Liberation Army in a bitter and cold battle in the Northeast.

Excuses have been thrown up for the military debacle. India was ill prepared; it believed in non-violence; it trusted the Chinese and in 'Hindi-Chini bhai bhai'. Fingers have been pointed, most famously at then prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru, defence minister Krishna Menon, and Lieutenant General B N Kaul, who was in charge of the army on India's eastern frontier.

Do you seriously mean China was defeated in China-India Conflict in 1962? If you do mean so, find other documents please.

Twenty-five years ago this week, China invaded Vietnam. The invasion came after months of tension between the two communist neighbors. The Chinese attack was prompted by Vietnam's decision to invade Cambodia and remove the Chinese-backed Khmer Rouge. The 1979 border war between China and Vietnam was over quickly, with the Chinese retreating after heavy losses.
www.npr.org...

Even from your material, we can see China achieved the goal.
Now please look at the following description of the conflict from:
globalsecurity.org...

China's twenty-nine-day incursion into Vietnam in February 1979 was a response to what China considered to be a collection of provocative actions and policies on Hanoi's part. These included Vietnamese intimacy with the Soviet Union, mistreatment of ethnic Chinese living in Vietnam, hegemonistic "imperial dreams" in Southeast Asia, and spurning of Beijing's attempt to repatriate Chinese residents of Vietnam to China.

In February 1979 China attacked along virtually the entire Sino-Vietnamese border in a brief, limited campaign that involved ground forces only. The Chinese attack came at dawn on the morning of 17 February 1979, and employed infantry, armor, and artillery. Air power was not employed then or at any time during the war. Within a day, the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) had advanced some eight kilometers into Vietnam along a broad front. It then slowed and nearly stalled because of heavy Vietnamese resistance and difficulties within the Chinese supply system. On February 21, the advance resumed against Cao Bang in the far north and against the all-important regional hub of Lang Son. Chinese troops entered Cao Bang on February 27, but the city was not secured completely until March 2. Lang Son fell two days later. On March 5, the Chinese, saying Vietnam had been sufficiently chastised, announced that the campaign was over. Beijing declared its "lesson" finished and the PLA withdrawal was completed on March 16.

As a matter of fact, China could have advanced to Hanoi if wanted. There was no obstacle before PLA of taking Hanoi. But PLA retreated. The goal of the conflict was not about occupation of Vietnam, but punishment. The goal was achieved and PLA retreated.





[edit on 9-9-2004 by zcheng]

Intelearthling,

Gotta agree. This is by far one of the best threads ever!

We got stupidity-supremo on this thread. We got quite a team here!

Intelearthling - Quick-mouthed, always has something to say he assumes is funny!

zcheng - Is always trying to keep up with Intelearthling in the stupid comments department!

American Mad Man - Best ignorance on the thread! A true slugger! And thinks he's general manager of ATS! And wants to go to war!

Mad Scientist - Truly lives up to his name! Get's angry very easily!


I've enjoyed watching this. I look forward to it every day!

And American Mad Man. Forgive my ignorance? What ignorance?

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Intelearthling
American Mad Man?

You look like you been holding the fort down by yourself (apologies to anyone else who's been defending America here, I'll need to read all the postings)? These people have lost their minds. Hell, we'll take'em all on! Great job you got going on here, though.

SO BRING IT ON, YOU ANTI-AMERICAN COMMIE LOVERS!

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

LOL - yeah, I can't get enough of these guys - especially the ChiComs. One just said that the US was the agressor in Vietnam. In a different thread Zcheng even said that the US was using biological weapons against China, and thats why they have SARS

Yeah man, every time I get on this thread, I bust a gut laughing so hard! This thread would make a blockbuster comedy!

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Yeah man, every time I get on this thread, I bust a gut laughing so hard! This thread would make a blockbuster comedy!

[edit on 9/9/04 by Intelearthling]

And you, zcheng, AMM, and MS would be the stars!

What an awesome cast!

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by mad scientist
My ignorance ? Do you deny any of this ? If you do I would like to know why because these arfe all established facts. Stop being a coward and respond with facts

Please find the documents that support your claims, esp with regards of conflict with India and Vietnam, when and why China retreated.

Hey, the only reason you can't find them is because,your commie government suppresses this knowledge with thier censorship, and you will keep on believing anything they tell you, because if you start aasking questions, BAM, off to prison you go.

How pitiful of a life you've got to living.