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Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

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posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by undo
 




Yeah I believe the CoE has Bishops and Arhcbishops... I may be wrong?

Dunno.... a Bishop is a Bishop to me.... a guy with a funny hat




posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





Both sources in and out of the bible document leaders witnessing things that makes them believe. Ranging from Roman governors to many others.


So please name them and provide source material for your claim, your spending your time making claims but are not providing supporting evidence.

And as I asked earlier please explain what makes them experts in miracles how did they acquire this expertise and given the alleged volume of experts what is unique about a miracle that would imply that the practitioner is a god ?

Again in relation to Sai Baba there is ample supporting evidence.

Your standards, your reasoning. your logic, your attributes I'm only working with your tools of the trade.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 





Dunno.... a Bishop is a Bishop to me.... a guy with a funny hat

And the taste for young male flesh, not unlike jesus. oops there I go generalizing again



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by undo
 




Yeah I believe the CoE has Bishops and Arhcbishops... I may be wrong?

Dunno.... a Bishop is a Bishop to me.... a guy with a funny hat


ah k, well most protestant churches avoid the regalia, primarily because its 1) too expensive 2) a poor use of money 3) attached at the hip to the vatican's public image, and 4) is mostly reminscent of the regalia of the ancient mystery religions from babylon. (fish head miter, that kinda thing). but there's also 100s of different types of protestant religions and very few catholic variations by comparison. most protestant churches are dirt poor, except the big ones on tv.


edit on 21-1-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Just did a little bit of looking around on google. He never came from a virgin birth (guess I was wrong), however:


According to North Korean historical literature, Kim Jong Il was born in a log cabin inside a secret base on Korea’s most sacred mountain, Mt. Paekdu. At the moment of his birth, a bright star lit up the sky, the seasons spontaneously changed from winter to spring, and rainbows appeared. This contradicts way less interesting Western accounts of his birth, which state the dictator was born in a guerilla camp in Russia, while his father was on the run from the Japanese.


Top 10 Crazy Facts About Kim Jong Il
edit on 21/1/2011 by Griffo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


The Syriac Orthodox Church is one of the oldest churches in the world, passing in and out of contact with the rest of the world. They are one of the most isolated peoples in church history, and were were the people were first called Christians. They're religious sect goes back to when Acts was written in 200 AD. And by then they were already an established people. This leaves roughly 100 years between the first generation who witnessed Christ and Acts getting written down. They provided sources to the details of Acts. The fact that they exist is a source. Their church wrote down their own ideas of Christ and their own witnesses to Christ who founded their church lived and taught, They had the benefit of Greek and Roman security. IE, they were not a bunch of orally spoken desert people. They were an established city with writing. Although most of that writing is lost, we know that they had not any serious differences to the Roman church or others. They predate the gnostic break off groups.

The fact that they have never changed, refusing to go along with the rest of Christianity as it got corrupted in Rome, is proof enough that they and their critics wrote the truth. As even when the rest of the world died, they did not.

How does that prove walking on water or any of that? They were the witnesses of that. They continued to live and go about their buisness even as the rest of the Romans collapsed and desperation corrupted the church.

This is proof that those things were witnessed. Otherwise, their church would never exist.
edit on 21-1-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth
 


Actually you are far extremefying it.

Religion, but its own nature, seeks to spread and be said a loud in the public and in the classroom. Now if you think that's being shoved down your children's throats, then you've basically failed as a parent, because what you are really saying is "I don't want to have to teach my kids what is right and wrong".

Suck it up dude. Not everyone is the same. And many are proud to say who they are, and invite in happy hands those around them to their ways. If you can't handle it, then maybe you ought to rethink what you are confident in or not.

Fear of another's religion is nothing more and nothing less than lack of faith in your own.


I need no mythology to teach my children right from wrong, I need no fairy tales to show them how to be a good humane person, who is caring and just.

I prefer not to tell my children that they are damned for just being human, I need not teach my children of the hate and division found in religions.

Teaching your kids right and wrong has NOTHING to do with religion and its sad that you would use something like religion to govern your child instead of teaching them personal responsibility and love.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth
 


Actually you are far extremefying it.

Religion, but its own nature, seeks to spread and be said a loud in the public and in the classroom. Now if you think that's being shoved down your children's throats, then you've basically failed as a parent, because what you are really saying is "I don't want to have to teach my kids what is right and wrong".

Suck it up dude. Not everyone is the same. And many are proud to say who they are, and invite in happy hands those around them to their ways. If you can't handle it, then maybe you ought to rethink what you are confident in or not.

Fear of another's religion is nothing more and nothing less than lack of faith in your own.

I have nothing but love and faith in the Great Spirit.

I only fear the ignorant masses that blindly follow a preacher or book that teaches fear and division in place of love and unity.

Its not my fault that the religious masses are willingfuly ignorant and worse, they hide behind a beautiful teaching and murder the beutiful human spirit with control and fear.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth
 


What about their children's children's children? Most certainly you do not. There's tons of examples of good people. but what happens when people forget why they are being good, or the reasons for it? The Dark ages is a great example. We had to re-learn hos to be good. And without the people's ability to read, only the very rare literate person could actually do good. And they were even fewer, whom did good. and almost always it was a religious person.

History teaches that without a comparison, people forget what good and evil are. And regions were made to justify why people were being good. Can you show me an example in history where people justified good just for the sake of it, and that carried on for more than a few generations? lets say maybe 3-5?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


You should give this a read, this explains why someone's testimony should not be granted as true just because they said so.


They did not witness the events themselves but at very best got it from direct eyewitnesses, and that’s only if Mark got his information directly from Peter. So at best it’s second hand testimony. Then consider that the first Gospel, Mark, was written about 30 years after Jesus died. So at best we’re talking second hand testimony recorded from an eyewitness 30 years after the event happened. Memories are not trustworthy.


An Analogy



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Griffo
 


That was the gospel writers. The gospels existed before they were written down. And in those cases, it was from a direct witness. And they spread out very far. A couple fell off the band wagon and began telling obviously biased stories. They were never admitted into the written because everyone else was telling the same and they were not. Not 1 witness.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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I can't stand religion, anyone who has the ability to think for themselves knows it's nothing more than a population control mechanism based on bulls*** & as for that book it was written by human hand.

"Believe or you go to hell"... Yeah good one



I am Love, I Love my Life & my place in Heaven is on earth thanks!

Edit: Strange how in literature they always refer to their God as the 'Father' when we know all life comes about through the female lol Of course in a male orientated society it makes perfect sense

edit on 21-1-2011 by L.J.C because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by L.J.C
 


Unless they make it with technology. in which case children can come from two males, two females, a tumor, or anything really.

Also religion can be used to control populations. But it also has been used to de-control populations. ANything can be used for good or evil.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





They're religious sect goes back to when Acts was written in 200 AD. And by then they were already an established people. This leaves roughly 100 years between the first generation who witnessed Christ and Acts getting written down.



Dude you are really scraping the barrel 100 years After an alleged event was "Alleged" to be witnessed , if this is an acceptable method of proving that not only did this particular jesus (and we haven't even toughed on the others yet) exist but the aforementioned attributes make him the creator of all that there is was or will ever be: Then your reasoning again not only makes Say Baba god but also the likes of Mithras etc. Hearsay is hearsay my friend .


Again you have still failed to show how Sathya Sai Baba is not god when he clearly demonstrates the specification required by xtians.

Born of a virgin
Preaching peace
Healing the sick
Performing miracles
( alleged) Eye witness testimony written down at a later date

Wrongly accused by the wicked

Sai Baba meets all the criteria for being a god as jesus did (the one in the gopsels that is) how can over 16 million( and growing exponentially) people be wrong ?



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





The gospels existed before they were written down.


So it is claimed by the man who wrote that,

Mr freeze is a very real man because the writers of DC comics discussed him before Bataman spoke to him.

And they teach this stuff to children !!!



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


Again, no. because like I said. His message is already changing by his followers. Clearly nothing divine is moving if in just one generation people are already splitting. In Christianity, very few split off. And it took generations.

To use a quote from the bible, things made by men don't last. Things made by God do. And I think the clear distinction is there.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


Mr Freeze is a clear work of fiction by around 30 writers. Jesus was a clear work of fact witnessed by thousands and known by many.



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





Can you show me an example in history where people justified good just for the sake of it, and that carried on for more than a few generations? lets say maybe 3-5?


All of my family are atheists from my great great grandparents down the majority had worked in medicine and health care in some way a large proportion taking the Hippocratic oath.
So that disproves your source of morality nonsense for a start.

Name me one moral action an atheist could not do that a theist could ?

We both know the answer so again, that disproves your nonsense



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


The Christian "Church" didn't exist at all until several decades after the death of their messiah, and there was plenty o split-age and dissension in the ranks. In fact, there was little uniformity of belief until 325 AD, at Nicea, and that uniformity was won at a price: Whole portions of "belief" concerning the emerging religion were thrown out in favor of others, leaving entire groups of what were ostensibly "Christians" --apostate.

This entire argument is beyond goofy. It's the religious equivalent of two nerds arguing over which Lady Superhero has the best punch.
edit on 21-1-2011 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


Again. There's plenty of good people around you whom take their idea of good from religion. My question was can you find one society cut off from religion that was stable and did not decay?



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