Middle School Student Behavior

Originally posted by Anttyk47
There's nothing to say to you because you have no leway in conversation, no slack to give. It's what you say goes because its how you see it.

Sorry you feel that way. I would be glad to discuss any portion of my opinion with which you disagree. But, to completely discount my opinion, without basis in fact, is rather immature, don't you think? Or is it simply that no "oldtimer" has anything to say that you want to hear? If so, that would be sad, indeed.

Originally posted by Anttyk47
reply to post by Harlan1111

 

I find it hard to believe so many teachers are on ATS in general :O

I don't really find it that suprising. My best teachers usually were the ones that told us about the things that werent't in the text book. The history teacher that explained that Cherokee Indians began scalpig as an act of revenge against a bounty on their scalps as "rodents." Then I had a teacher that told us about the real requirements to become the president.

A lot of teachers are actually in to learning and looking for all of the information. They collect knowledge in the way many others collect base ball cards or magazines.

It's time to bring back the paddle. Seriously. Parents need to stop treating their kids as their friends, and start parenting again. I gotta say that many American kids are some of the brattiest brats on the planet. I remember when I was a kid and how my parents kept me in check. Of course sometimes my parents took it to extremes, but let me tell you, after each -deserved- beating (discipline) you wouldn't find me making the same mistake twice. I did what my parents told me to do, and had I acted up in a store over toys or anything else, I could be certain that once we got home I'd get it. I was rewarded for good grades, and I was punished for bad grades. If I had anything less than a B or C in anything, I was afraid to come home. I knew I better do all of my homework, because if I didn't and the teacher talked to my parents, I'd get it. Both my parents worked. My dad was barely around most of my life, but when he was, he made sure we were well-behaved. My parents were good parents for the most part. I had a great childhood, but I also knew what line not to cross. It's a fine balance.

I don't suggest that parents start beating their kids every day, but punishment is a VERY good motivator. To threaten a kid with expulsion from the classroom or school..... that's a joke. What kid doesn't want a vacation from school? What kind of punishment is that exactly? If you kick them out on the street during school time, they'll just go act up somewhere else, and some will probably commit minor crimes during their time out of school.

When I was going to school in Europe, teachers were allowed to discipline kids. Nobody wants to get smacked with a ruler, so nobody misbehaves. Teachers weren't tyrannical, but they showed kids they mean business. They didn't have time to mess around.

Here in the U.S. schools are a complete joke. I remember transferring to a school in L.A. county and watching the teacher do NOTHING while 90% of the kids were talking out loud, socializing, and not paying attention. I felt like I was in one of those movies. Had those kids been disciplined from day one, that problem would not have existed. If parents refuse to do the job, teachers should have been able to. Somebody has to do the dirty work.

America, it's time you grow some big ones and start taking control of your brats. I like kids, but I can't stand the brats who run around the restaurant and scream. I can't stand the brats that have to have every toy on the planet, and still cry for more. I can't stand the brats who hit their own parents and call them names while the parents throw their arms up in the air and cry helplessly. I can't stand the brats who talk in class when they should shut up and pay attention. I can't stand the brats who are disrespectful and think they know everything at 16. Come on people, take control!

Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by Anttyk47
There's nothing to say to you because you have no leway in conversation, no slack to give. It's what you say goes because its how you see it.

Sorry you feel that way. I would be glad to discuss any portion of my opinion with which you disagree. But, to completely discount my opinion, without basis in fact, is rather immature, don't you think? Or is it simply that no "oldtimer" has anything to say that you want to hear? If so, that would be sad, indeed.

The best type of steak is one that is massaged. So perhaps i massaged you into a good conversation? :O
I think you're speaking severly one sided and you will continue to stay on a one sided portion. Perhaps talk about how considerate the other persons opinion is.

Honestly you just came off really really strong with your point, so much so that it seems that saying something like. "Hey guy, this is how the world is. Deal with it."
I don't want to come off as a hippie, or as a blinded by pretty colors thinking the world is a bunch of roses, but the world doesn't have to be the way you mentioned.
I mean i think that.

-Sorry for my first comment towards you-

I think that you were born and raised to fit into the world the way it is, it wont change and if it does you adapt. But most like it wont change.

And the person you were talking to or replying to has a

The world can change and since this structure doesnt work, it will change. It doesnt work for me, and i know there are others like me who will help change it for the good.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
America, it's time you grow some big ones and start taking control of your brats. I like kids, but I can't stand the brats who run around the restaurant and scream. I can't stand the brats that have to have every toy on the planet, and still cry for more. I can't stand the brats who hit their own parents and call them names while the parents throw their arms up in the air and cry helplessly. I can't stand the brats who talk in class when they should shut up and pay attention. I can't stand the brats who are disrespectful and think they know everything at 16. Come on people, take control!

Perhaps a paddle won't help this situation, and perhaps a change in the education system/destroying the Media's view on how kids should grow up, will help this. Maybe something as simple as taking a TV out of the house will solve these problems. Not a paddle.

reply to post by WTFover


For one.
There are no flaws in the system i explained.
and graduating 6 months before my peers proves it..
If the students slack, thats their own fault.
if they graduate early thats proof that they worked hard at what they were trying to achieve,

school is different from work
and as such shouldnt even be brought into the story as it is off topic.

what i am saying, is that the public school system right now.
IS FLAWED
there needs to be changes if they expect the students to change.
if you treat students like caged animals, they will act like it.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Parents need to stop treating their kids as their friends, and start parenting again.

Absolutely! That is a key point I left out of my post. Sure, I always wanted my children to come to me with a problem. Not as a friend, but as someone whose opinions, experience and knowledge they respected. And, as someone who would be completely honest with them.

Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Parents need to stop treating their kids as their friends, and start parenting again.

Absolutely! That is a key point I left out of my post. Sure, I always wanted my children to come to me with a problem. Not as a friend, but as someone whose opinions, experience and knowledge they respected. And, as someone who would be completely honest with them.

Well, I respect my friends opinions, experiences, knowledge, and im completely honest with my friends.
and if you dont respect your friends opinions etc... then maybe you might want to start?
if you can't be a friend to your kids and parent simultaneously.
then something needs to change lol.

I have to say this "trend" is alarming. I'm a 39 yr old father of two. My oldest ( just turned 13 in Dec.) Comes to stay with me every summer, and comes down to visit during Christmas break. Last year she was the perfect angel. This year , what had become of her? Totally disrespectful, thought everything was funny, and not serious(her actions).Pretty much all of her friends are the exact same! Just recently, she told her mother that she f'''''''g hated her, and hope she dies!! This past summer while she was here...there were hardly any communications between us because of the constant chatting on the computer, and/or cell phone. Now I know what alot of people are thinking......Kids....It's that age.....NO. Not at 13. I had to put my foot down so many times, that I started feeling bad, because of the short time we get together. But I did it anyway. Because.....I am her FATHER! I love my girls so much. But I am a parent first, and a friend second. I think that is a big problem with youth today. Times are changing again...only this time, I think it's going to be much more worse than the last. And the only ones to blame are the parents.

lol... say Hello to the future of our society... cut the budgets, make the teachers pissed, keep the parents busy so they cant teach their kids proper manners by increasing the work load, and minimizing the pay, scratch raises for this year, strip a few teacher's benefits, they don't need health, only will power, then when they can't take it anymore, when kids are shooting eachother left and right, and girls are at an all time-high for pregnancy while in school, we'll instill...



MARSHALL LAW EDUCATION

Every kid will be trained in the methods of ROTC, and will also partake in a manditory 5 years of service to the country when they graduate, we'll need them for the War on "Anything-Not-American-ism" ... When they get out, we'll print some money from the Fed Reserve, and give them all college education and finally when they graduate... Oh what's that? Another War? DRRAAAAAFFFFTTTT TIMEEEEEE!!!!!

reply to post by oniongrass


A lot of people protested Vietnam out of fear. Many protested because they felt it was an unjust war and that too many Americans were losing their life. The girl with a flower behind her ear that was shot at Kent State didn't have to worry about being drafted in to the infantry. She was a woman and a college student. She had nothing to worry about and gave her life.

As far as civil rights, yes it was mainly a black thing. After the march to Selma though it became a nation wide movement. Thousands of whites from around the country poured in to the south. Whites died side by side with blacks at the hands of the Klan. Most of them were of the younger generation. They saw the problem and fought to change it.

That is how America worked for many many years. Each generation strove to improve on the ideas of freedom and civility. It didn't always work out and it rarely worked out with any true speed. The attempts were made though and we continued to advance slowly but surely.

Not being friends with your children leads them to keep secrets from you. It leads them from keeping thier relationships from you. And it leads them to make poor choices like getting pregnant, doing drugs, ect.

Originally posted by Anttyk47

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
America, it's time you grow some big ones and start taking control of your brats. I like kids, but I can't stand the brats who run around the restaurant and scream. I can't stand the brats that have to have every toy on the planet, and still cry for more. I can't stand the brats who hit their own parents and call them names while the parents throw their arms up in the air and cry helplessly. I can't stand the brats who talk in class when they should shut up and pay attention. I can't stand the brats who are disrespectful and think they know everything at 16. Come on people, take control!

Perhaps a paddle won't help this situation, and perhaps a change in the education system/destroying the Media's view on how kids should grow up, will help this. Maybe something as simple as taking a TV out of the house will solve these problems. Not a paddle.

A paddle won't solve a 16 year old problem, you're right. The paddle should have been brought into the picture when the kid was 3-5 years old. I'm not talking about a blood bath here, but firm enough that the kid wouldn't want to experience it again.

The media does have something to do with it, but it can't be held fully responsible. Hell, I'm not sure if it can be held responsible at all! For example I watch a lot of TV and listen to the radio often, but I still don't hold the same opinions that they do. I'm not the only one. We, human beings, are smart enough to know we have a mind of our own. I'm sure you feel the same way. You don't feel like all your opinions and lifestyle changes come from TV, do you? You must feel like you have independent thought, even if the people on TV go crazy, right? I could be wrong about you, but I know that I personally don't follow every fad the news or some dumb show throws at me. TV = fiction. If most people don't understand that, we're in trouble.

Taking a TV out of the house isn't going to do anything if parents continue to treat their kids as their friends. A spoiled brat will find ways to act up no matter what they're watching or not watching. When I was a kid I watched TV. I didn't watch a ton of it, but every day in the evening I'd watch cartoons, and during summer holidays I loved watching kids programming. I saw my friends getting toys I wanted, and my parents bought me what I wanted if they could afford it and if they felt I deserved them.

Reward and punishment is the only way to go. Life can be very difficult. If you don't teach your kid that getting an education is important and you don't show him/her why it's important, they're not going to give a rat's a$$. When I was a kid I certainly didn't understand why it was so important, but when I became older I realized that my parents were only trying to make my life easier. Kids don't know anything at 1-16 years old. They THINK they know, but they don't really understand. Parents are in place to make them do what is best for them until the kid finally realizes what's best for him/her. Once that kid becomes a young adult, he/she will finally come to understand why education is so important, and they'll continue with it on their own. Eventually they mature enough to know what's best for them without having to rely on authority figures to tell them what's best.

Originally posted by NeoAstra
...and graduating 6 months before my peers proves it..

Actually, it doesn't. Many 'graduate" without the skills necessary for a productive life. And, I'm talking about basic skills such as reading, comprehension, writing. and mathematics, not advanced education.

school is different from work

The skills you should acquire at school are what prepare you for life and that includes work. Among them are social skills, of which respect, self-discipline and responsibility are key.

what i am saying, is that the public school system right now.
IS FLAWED
there needs to be changes if they expect the students to change.

Absolutely in agreement with the need for change. However, coddling students is not positive change. That is what got us to the point in which we are now.

The average US students attend school only 180 days per year and only 6.5 hours per day. That leaves 17.5 hours on school days and over half a year at 24 hours per day for hats, music, talking to friends, cell phones, PSP, etc. I believe 6.5 hours of educational discipline is a long way from "caged animals".

Originally posted by Anttyk47
Not being friends with your children leads them to keep secrets from you. It leads them from keeping thier relationships from you. And it leads them to make poor choices like getting pregnant, doing drugs, ect.

That's bull. You can be kind and understanding with your children, and you can still be a parent without being their friend. My parents were my PARENTS. They were not my friends, but they played with me, read me stories, and did all the good things parents do for their kids. Due to the fact that I was disciplined and told what was expected of me, I didn't go through a teenage pregnancy and I didn't do drugs. If you teach your kids the right things, if you make them feel like they can make the correct decisions for themselves but still make sure they understand what you expect them to do, they'll do the right things. Don't be afraid of discipline, and make sure your children understand they are CHILDREN, not adults, able to make all of their own decisions. It's good to make your kids feel empowered, but there is a definite limit. You can't give your children all the power and freedom to make their own decisions. You're the parent, you need to make the best decisions for them.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by Anttyk47

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
America, it's time you grow some big ones and start taking control of your brats. I like kids, but I can't stand the brats who run around the restaurant and scream. I can't stand the brats that have to have every toy on the planet, and still cry for more. I can't stand the brats who hit their own parents and call them names while the parents throw their arms up in the air and cry helplessly. I can't stand the brats who talk in class when they should shut up and pay attention. I can't stand the brats who are disrespectful and think they know everything at 16. Come on people, take control!

Perhaps a paddle won't help this situation, and perhaps a change in the education system/destroying the Media's view on how kids should grow up, will help this. Maybe something as simple as taking a TV out of the house will solve these problems. Not a paddle.

A paddle won't solve a 16 year old problem, you're right. The paddle should have been brought into the picture when the kid was 3-5 years old. I'm not talking about a blood bath here, but firm enough that the kid wouldn't want to experience it again.

The media does have something to do with it, but it can't be held fully responsible. Hell, I'm not sure if it can be held responsible at all! For example I watch a lot of TV and listen to the radio often, but I still don't hold the same opinions that they do. I'm not the only one. We, human beings, are smart enough to know we have a mind of our own. I'm sure you feel the same way. You don't feel like all your opinions and lifestyle changes come from TV, do you? You must feel like you have independent thought, even if the people on TV go crazy, right? I could be wrong about you, but I know that I personally don't follow every fad the news or some dumb show throws at me. TV = fiction. If most people don't understand that, we're in trouble.

Taking a TV out of the house isn't going to do anything if parents continue to treat their kids as their friends. A spoiled brat will find ways to act up no matter what they're watching or not watching. When I was a kid I watched TV. I didn't watch a ton of it, but every day in the evening I'd watch cartoons, and during summer holidays I loved watching kids programming. I saw my friends getting toys I wanted, and my parents bought me what I wanted if they could afford it and if they felt I deserved them.

Reward and punishment is the only way to go. Life can be very difficult. If you don't teach your kid that getting an education is important and you don't show him/her why it's important, they're not going to give a rat's a$$. When I was a kid I certainly didn't understand why it was so important, but when I became older I realized that my parents were only trying to make my life easier. Kids don't know anything at 1-16 years old. They THINK they know, but they don't really understand. Parents are in place to make them do what is best for them until the kid finally realizes what's best for him/her. Once that kid becomes a young adult, he/she will finally come to understand why education is so important, and they'll continue with it on their own. Eventually they mature enough to know what's best for them without having to rely on authority figures to tell them what's best.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLOL

Paddling at 3-5.
I've worked with 3-5 year olds.
Paddling at that age? Comon that's a joke a lawsuit and bulls-

It's not the parent's fault.
Nor is it the lack of paddling.

Please look at all my replies to post on this topic, you will see my views on the problem.

Couldn't this be the end result of students who have been going through Bush's "No Child Left Behind" education policy? These kids began school when this stuff all started, and now we are seeing the results of a memorize-test system.

Bush, the FAIL that just keeps on giving.

reply to post by NeoAstra


Most teenagers, like I did as a teen, thought "friends" were those who would tell you what you wanted to hear, rather than what you needed to hear.

Originally posted by Anttyk47

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOLOL

Paddling at 3-5.
I've worked with 3-5 year olds.
Paddling at that age? Comon that's a joke a lawsuit and bulls-

It's not the parent's fault.
Nor is it the lack of paddling.

Please look at all my replies to post on this topic, you will see my views on the problem.

This is the kind of attitude that causes kids to act up. Whether it's a paddle, the palm of your hand, or a wooden spoon... all these will do the trick. When I was a kid I certainly didn't enjoy it, but that was the point. I wasn't beaten till I was bloody or bruised, but it hurt enough that I knew not to do it again, whatever it was. If I didn't get disciplined with a wooden spoon, I would get yelled at,... and this too was not pleasant. I didn't want to experience it again, so I didn't do it again. What better way to learn? I guess I could keep sticking my fingers into an electrical outlet, but my mom thought it would be better if I got a beating for it rather than get electrocuted. She could have sat me down and explained to me very nicely and slowly how it was dangerous to do, but at 3 to 5 years of age words don't really mean much, pain does.

A lawsuit for disciplining a kid? It's not the parents fault??? Who's fault is it then???? ROFL!!!
You know, it doesn't matter whether you discipline your kid with a paddle or strict words, as long as you get the job done. If what you do works for you, great. Everyone should do what works.

Discipline worked for me. My sibling was not as fortunate. You see, we moved to the U.S. where discipline is practically forbidden and a parent risks going to jail or having their kids taken away. My sister was only about 8 years old when we arrived in this country, but one of the first things she learned is that parents weren't allowed to discipline kids. You know what she did the next time my dad threatened to discipline her? She stood in front of the window and yelled "I'll call the police!" So... my parents (as angry as they were) literally gave up on discipline with her. They still tried to talk sense into her, but for some reason that just didn't take. She got into all sorts of trouble during her teenage years. She was completely out of control. As a result she is now experiencing a harsh reality as an adult, and trying to rebuild her life to where it should have been if my parents had been allowed to keep her on the straight and narrow path to success. That's what happens when you punish parents for doing the right thing.

reply to post by Uberlime


The schools were designed for the early industrialied era and have not changed much since. They are slow and boring and provide meaningless hoop jumping year in and year out. We need a whole different idea where we don't herd kids together to waste most of their time each day. They kids are dysfunctional. The teachers are dysfunctional. And the administration is dysfunctional. Parents often try not to look at the mess or they get angry.

If the work was focused and consolidated, most kids could finish their school day in a couple of hours. The rest of the time is busy work and nonsense. There is no reason why everything from assignment to lectures and instructions can be put on the internet and accessed by the kids on their own. You should be able to interact with the teacher on appointment or in e-mail or chat.

But then when you talk about reforming the system to make sense and really teach kids and stop warping kids, you will find out the truth. The main purpose of public schools is to serve as baby sitting factories and social/political engineers.