I am a middle school building permanent substitute teacher. I am also a retired nurse. I have the opportunity to teach in many classrooms for grades 5 through 8.

While in past years the behavior of the students has been challenging, this current school year has presented challenges the likes of which none of my co-workers have ever experienced. Never before have I been faced with such disrespect, insubordination, and immature behavior. These students are defiant and they don't seem to care and almost seem proud of their behavior. Their behavior almost serves as the focus of the classroom on some days. It is constant discipline issues. This leaves lost time for teaching. It is disruptive and unfair to those students who want to learn. There are days when I leave school totally exhausted just from the amount of discipline it takes to get through a day. These behaviors range anywhere from constant talking, to getting up out of their seats to talk to another student without permission, throwing things across the room; tipping desks, talking out of turn, laughing, yelling, arguing, throwing temper tantrums, name calling, to hitting another student. Some of this behavior is labeled ADHD.

There is protocol to follow for misbehavior. They are given verbal warnings. Sometimes the teachers change student seating to break up the "talkers". The teacher may send an offending student to sit in the hall for a "time out". After two or three verbal warnings, the student can be "written up" and sent to the vice principal. What follows is anywhere from a few hours in ISS (in school suspension), to OSS (out of school suspension), depending the severity of the offense. The vice principal makes phone calls to the parent (s) or guardian of the student to discuss the behavior and it's consequences. Unfortunately, many parents either don't care, or blame the teacher as "picking" on a particular student. If a school is cited for too many suspensions", they are penalized by the school corporation, and worst case scenario, the vice principal could be terminated.

On any given day, the same students can be found sitting in the ISS room. They are repeat offenders. After so many OSS, the student can be brought up for expulsion, only to return the next semester of school. Again, too many suspensions or expulsions, and the school is penalized.

I fear that soon, teachers will just walk out of the classrooms; and maybe this is what needs to happen. One particular teacher, in her 30's, is trying desperately to find different ways to manage these students behaviors. We have "lunch detention" which means that for less offensive behaviors, but still disruptive, the students are held during the first 20 minutes of their lunch, then they have 10 minutes to eat. The teacher also suspends her lunch time to oversee the lunch detention. Lately, there have been so many students on lunch detention that the hallway is filled on both sides. They are given a slip to be signed by their parent(s) that has to be returned the following day, or they receive another detention. Some do return the slips, most don't. There have been no parental complaints about lunch detention. But again, it is usually the same students every day.

Just yesterday, two young ladies thought it cute to do cartwheels down the hallway. A teacher gave a verbal warning. Both girls looked directly at the teacher, and did another cartwheel. This was captured on video. The girls were "written up". This behavior took place during a "passing period" which means that the entire grade was in the hallway, making this behavior very dangerous. When written up, the girls thought it was "stupid" and were also laughing about it, stating "are you serious?" This is just an example of the oppositional defiance that we see everyday. There have been incidents where students have punched teachers. Those students were expelled.

The students will argue and yell back at the teacher. A student will call the teacher a "name" and the only consequence is a "talk" with the vice principal, maybe 2 hours in ISS. It has reached the point where many of these students enjoy going to ISS and will purposefully act out to get placed there. Obviously this endangers their education.

If this year is a preview to what is coming in the near future, I suspect we will see more and more teachers leaving the profession. We are exhausted and running out of options.

As far as I remember, here in Romania there is a law that fines the parents of the students that skip classes or misbehave. They are fined from 500RON ($161) to 5000RON ($1.612) or community service (for those unable to pay the fine). I haven't heard anything of it from the moment it was implemented (or if it was implemented at all).

I do agree that children nowadays are getting more and more "cool", as they call themselves, most probably because of their parents I believe (not all are to blame, sometimes even with the parent's full support and education it is hard to control a kid).

Edit to add: I also side with the teachers on this one, as they have a hard time keeping the kids under control. Not to mention the parents that think that their offsprings are being picked on because the teacher doesn't like them or that he/she doesn't see how "special" their kid is.

I have watched 'Dr. Phil' shows where the parents did not know what to do with their aggressive violent ans out-of-control teen(s). But what clearly struck me, was that on all these show situations, the parents, BOTH of them, were TERRIFIED to stand up for themselves, they were quivering jello. When I was a little kid 1959-to-1970, every kid was TERRIFIED of grownups. If your parents did not beat you until your skin broke, with a belt, the school teacher would beat you with a wooden paddle, until your skin, or the paddle broke. However, such measures are too extreme, and I know now, that those situations were abuse. But we said "yes sir" and "yes mam" and stayed quiet in church. The current circumstance today is an awfull one. A kid could go get a lawyer and put his parent in jail for abuse. if he is locked in his room with no supper. Like that old Marilyn Monroe movie saying goes, "Somethings got to give..."

When I was in middle school, I was in the same situation as a student. I was a pretty good student, but not perfect. My parents didn't have the money for private school, so I went to the public middle school. My motivation quickly diminished as soon I found myself dragged down to the level apathy of my classmates. I was changed for the worse, and I can thank the system for that.

I can't really describe my feelings here without violating the T&C. But stronger feeling than what I'm conveying here do exist.

It's nothing new.

I left school 16 years ago and the behaviour of my fellow classmates at that time was so terrible that I ended up hardly ever going for the last two years due to the sheer terror of the Lord of the flies type behaviour that occurred on a daily basis.

Some of the things I remember happening when I did attend were.
Making a maths teacher sob in class because the pupils kept teasing her about her recently deceased husband.
Dog excrement being smeared on blackboards
Several pregnancies ( no not caused by me before anyone asks)
The art teacher going crazy and punching one of the pupils square on the jaw after kicking his own art room door down
Regular drug use
One girl bringing a very large sex toy into class and placing it proudly on her desk

As you can imagine it was not a place you wanted to be in if you wanted to learn anything so I just walked out and ended up getting home schooled and passing all of my exams with higher marks then 99% of the school

As a side note I'm pretty sure a lot of the social phobia I experienced later in life came from those experiences

I've been observing these changes over the past 30 years.

It's not just poor parenting to blame. It's what the entire culture has been reduced to over time, especially once children became targets for advertising. From there on Media has usurped the family and just about any concept of Respect that had existed.

Each of us played our part by not standing up and speaking loudly on how we don't want our kids brainwashed with the ever-increasing graphic violence, sexual themes, the rise of "Image" as what a person is, the push toward children owning technology they don't need, and the all encompassing empowerment over their parents.

During this time we gave them adult rights and expected them to handle it when they are kids. We sexualized our daughters and taught our sons to be soldiers.. and when they asked us for more we gave it to them without asking anything in return. We allowed them to fall into an Instant Gratification world of experience.

We did that because many of us went without in our childhood, so we over-compensate with our kids. And, we don't want our kids to be "Sad"... the very thing they have all learned to use against their parents.

Over those years the young kids grew to be less efficient parents and more self-centered, their kids copied and took it to another level.. and so their kids are the troublesome ones we see today in the 9 to 19 age-group.

It can't be blamed on any one thing, it is a lot of things over a long period of time that has brought us to this Experience.

This is exactly why our public school system (i.e., student grades) is so poor. The students lack discipline and generally speaking, parents just don't seem to care. The teachers and administrators are handcuffed in many respects as to disciplinary action. So what you are left with is an unruly class that isn't there to learn; rather, they are there to socialize. I feel for the teachers. I also feel for the hand full of students that are there to learn but can't because class is constantly disrupted.

I can't help but think that perhaps school should be voluntary, rather than mandatory and it should be easier to expel unruly kids from class. That way, the kids that really want to learn can do so without distraction. Furthermore, I would like to see laws implemented that prohibit those under 18 from obtaining jobs unless they are enrolled in school or have obtained their GED. When the student rosters start getting thin, then maybe parents will wake up, take some responsibility for their children, discipline their children and get the children back on track.

my 2-cents

Middle school was brutaly bad when I was there, though, 1972-to-1974. You were afraid of the popular kids, they were scary formidable thugs. One time, I was in a classroom, and this girl turned around to me, and handed me a 'dime bag' of pot, and told me to pass it to the girl in back of me. I was too afraid not to. I stayed quiet and stayed invisible. Otherwise, I would recieve what happened to a girl I watched. She was being beaten-down outside across the street from the school. By about 6 girls. But a grownup came out of her house and grabbed the girl in. Thank God.

It really depends on WHERE the teacher teaches. I live in mid Missouri in a relatively small town. I'm a junior in high school, and yes, I do see a lot of disrespect coming from the children and although I can't specifically comment on your situation because i'm not there but three possibilities come to mind.

1. Your a teacher with a bad reputation so the kids are more unruly with you.
2. Subs always get picked on, it's not right or fair but they do so maybe thats what your experiencing.
3. The kids are just punks and truly are bad kids.

Maybe a combination of those three, I don't know.


Also, although I see a lot of attacks on students and kids in general in this thread, (none of which I disagree with) i feel the teachers are also somewhat responsible. I'm a strong believer in public school reform on a national level. One of the things I would reform is teachers, They're many good teachers here in the U.S., just like there are many good students, but like students there are many bad ones too! So I think teachers are partly to blame for our public schools being so #ty.


Either way sorry for your predicament and I hope you solve it!
S&F

My wife is a teacher in a large city and is constantly frustrated by the total disrespect of the students as well. And, yes, a large part of the time the parents would rather blame the school than their "little angel".

The truth is; it is not ADD, LDHD, or whatever.. it is usually and simply LAW. Lack of Ass Whuppens.

Of course, as a parent, I know it is not as easy as it seems. There is no question in my house who runs the place, my 3.5 year old daughter... We constantly have to battle the influences of classmates (even in day care) and what is seen on the television. If you have kids, you know that many children's shows have smart ass kids, who know it all, and the adults are buffoons. Even in the cartoons, all the characters are low lifes and jack asses.

So what do you do? completely shelter the kids? Home school? Beat the "spark" out of them?

Basically, we try the middle road. Try to manage other influences. We don't beat them senseless, but we don't completely spare the "rod" either.

Too bad we don't educate the parents, first...

It's a huge problem nationwide and I'm scared to see what this country will look like 5, 10 or 20 years from now.

I've thought long and hard about this for a few years, since my own child became school-aged. I don't pretend to have any answers and certainly none of the possible answers is easy.

What I did conclude is that there is a lack of values and ethics in our educational system. We are so crazy about separating Church and State that we have inadvertently labeled all values and ethics as religious or judgmental in some fashion.

Parents see basic rules of behavior being applied to their out of control children and feel judged in some way. So they set about expunging all rules of conduct that in any way have a moral foundation. We have to decide which types of behavior and conduct are conducive to learning and which aren't and apply the rules strictly.

Additionally, we educate to the lowest common denominator. As the OP mentioned, a large chunk of educational time is spent managing the problem students and not inspiring the dedicated ones.

We don't want anyone to feel "bad" or "left behind" so we make exceptions, grade on a curve and mediate trouble instead of taking a hard-line. The result, no one learns anything.

We would not accept such crappy results from a professional sports team, corporate sales results or our President without making sweeping changes so why are we willing to accept failure for our children? Is it because, as a nation, we really just want a tax-funded babysitting service to give us a break from our shameful parenting? I think so.