Middle School Student Behavior

Well, as a middle school student myself, I think i can shed a bit of light on the behavior of my peers. The biggest factor that will keep students in line is mutual respect between the pupil and the educator.The principal of my old school had a fiery temper and an intimidating presence, but from my experience, I can tell you that the student body doesn't respond well to this sort of attitude. It will only breed defiance and insubordination. On the other hand, if an educator doesnt assert their authority firmly enough, they will be trampled by the students and there will be anarchy in the classroom. The most successful teachers, and authority figures in general, learn to walk the line between the two archetypes. Most of the behavior that teachers resent comes from teenagers being teenagers, its just the mischeivous angst of adolescence, and not genuinely malicious. I would consider only about 1% of the student body to be actual social deviants, the majority of troublemakers are just kids that havn't been conditioned to respect authority.

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
...
Teachers don't do it for the money. If we were in it for the money, we would have never went to college for an education degree. We do it, because we believed, at one point, that we were making a difference in the world. Now, I'm not so sure.
...
-truthseeker

edit on 15-1-2011 by truthseeker1984 because: (no reason given)

Teachers in my district could have done no better, and certainly a lot worse, if they had earned a more difficult degree in college. They wouldn't be making $75 - 100,000 per year, wouldn't have 3 months off, pension, union protection, etc. They are not good enough to make 100,000 in the private sector these days, and education is the easiest degree there is!

Hi,

My wife and I raised our two children pretty much the same. We have a daughter that is 26 and a son that is 23. Our daughter sailed through school without any problems(other than problems with a troubled boyfriend that we had to get a protection order against), but our son was a completely different story. Our son started getting into trouble early on with serious infractions of the law. He broke into a neighbor's house(with two other kids) when he was around nine or ten years old just to play with that kid's toys. Not long after this, he took a baseball bat and beat another kid's bike until it was broken beyond repair. The problems just seemed to never end and still haven't.

We live in an "upper middle class" area and have fought with many parents here because they don't believe "their little Andy could act like that and it must be our son's fault". I have seen it in their eyes as we walked into the principal's office together because our kids created a problem that needed to be dealt with severely. Some of the other parents have said outright that our son is the problem. I don't know what happened. I know my son causes a lot of trouble. We tried everything we could think of to help him and then asked for help, suggestions or anything else from anybody that would listen.

We took him to a few different counselors and they said our family is "fine and normal" and they didn't see what the problem was. I'd pull out my list of behaviors I thought were a problem and, from the look on their faces, I knew they weren't going to take it as serious as I did. I called the school counselors and they didn't see any huge problems. I wanted to rip my hair out. I asked that they review my son's history with acting out and then contact me. After waiting for word from these coundelors and not hearing anything, I'd show up at the school to discuss their findings only to be told, "He seems to be doing better now.". Yes, he can act well for a number of days or weeks, but I was asking these professionals to look at his over-all behavior and all I got were long stares and pats on the back for trying to do everything I could.

We disciplined our kids. We never had to deal with much trouble from our daughter. I found I was coming home from work and almost nightly there was some incident I would have to "deal" with that our son caused. It got to the point where I dreaded coming home.

I spanked my kids when they were naughty until I caught myself doing it out of anger. My son was about six or seven when I caught myself spanking him out of anger and not just to correct the bad behavior. I stopped spanking then and there. I never hurt my kids physically from the spankings, but I saw my own father in me when I would spank out of anger and that was the end of it. We still disciplined with groundings, taking away priviliges and handing out chores(trying to keep them too busy to cause any trouble). I'd call the police on my own child hoping to scare him into good behavior. None of that worked, and at times, I longed for the spanking days.

Time has moved on, now, but our son has not. He is in prison serving a seven year sentence on armed robbery. He got into drugs(imagine that), dropped out of school, moved in with his maternal grandmother and decided he could get away with anything. I tried everything I could to keep him from moving in with his grandmother. I asked her not to allow it, I called the police and they said he was of age and I couldn't do anything about it. I spoke to the maternal side of his family and asked that they kick him out(since all the aunts and uncles on that side owned the house he was staying at) and they didn't have the courage to stand up to him. Then, when things started getting bad at that house, the aunts and uncles were all calling us, telling us to do something. I was flabbergasted. This boy, my son, had now broken up a close knit family. They don't have reunions as often as they used to and you can feel the tension when they do get together.

Edit: [Yes, I talked over and over and over with my son about his behavior. He always acted like he understood and things would change. They never did.]

Could I have done things differently? Was there something I left out? Did I miss something that could have helped? This breaks my spirit.

I think the whole education system needs a big overhaul. What worked 10-15 years ago will not work today simply because of how fast we get our information. Who wants to read a book when you can read a quick article online. Schools should adapt to the changing times or risk losing the students.

Classrooms need to get students involved in fun activities and not just boring crap. You can try to drill the boring crap at them all day but they will have a hard time learning because it would feel like a chore, no one likes chores.

There needs to be some sort of technological adaption or you will have a harder time teaching these students to learn. Remember, we are in an age of computers and fast information.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
...
What I did conclude is that there is a lack of values and ethics in our educational system. We are so crazy about separating Church and State that we have inadvertently labeled all values and ethics as religious or judgmental in some fashion.

Parents see basic rules of behavior being applied to their out of control children ...

Or, in the absence of higher inspired moral systems, the schools apply systems based on psychoanalysis and other voodoo handwaving, infecting the student and making him or her difficult for even the parents to deal with.

...Additionally, we educate to the lowest common denominator. As the OP mentioned, a large chunk of educational time is spent managing the problem students and not inspiring the dedicated ones. ...

Yes, in fact we take advantage of the better students, making them waste their time and adapt to the conditions created by slow students. In a nearby district, the administration just got rid of accelerated science in middle school, where kids would take the normal science course but a year early if they were ready for it. Cost very little to implement, kept the bright kids engaged. In its place they want to have "learning communities" for science, no doubt that means the smart kids will have to explain things to the slow ones, and they'll have to hire special facilitators etc. to implement all this. It will cost a lot more. The parents didn't like it. The school board didn't like it. The administration is going ahead anyway. The administration acts like kings, and they're a bunch of mediocrities who happened to get into educational adminstration, get mail-order PhD's and learn how to be implacable jerks to anyone who asks serious questions of them.

Fire the whole lot of them and start over. Get rid of all their evil-infested methodology and let kids be kids, let those who want to learn move ahead. The system has grown far too unnatural and needs to be cleaned out vigorously, by those without "education" backgrounds.

Originally posted by SolidPhantom
... Our son started getting into trouble early on with serious infractions of the law. He broke into a neighbor's house(with two other kids) when he was around nine or ten years old just to play with that kid's toys. Not long after this, he took a baseball bat and beat another kid's bike until it was broken beyond repair. The problems just seemed to never end and still haven't.
...

Those don't sound terribly serious to me at that age. Kids I knew did that and worse around that age and were able to moderate their behavior as the stakes rose later on. I'm a parent myself and I surely don't have any suggestions, other than that your son is his own man, and that it's not too late for him. The conviction record may hurt him in trying to adapt in our competitive society, but if he can find something he does well and leverage that, he'll have a good way to get along.

Originally posted by WraithXV
I gave up hope for the Education system in 8th grade after I was exiled from class, and shunned by fellow students and even future teachers because I spoke up during the 9/11 incident about how I thought the attack looked like a 'controlled demolition'. My classmates looked at me like I was the Devil.

Your system is rigged and needs to be dismantled.

+1
The system is infested with such a level of political correctness that it has grown very dark. It was dark when I was a kid too, and I felt one of my best "school" skills was the ability to sort effortlessly the real information from the phony nonsense and remember both so I could repeat them back on tests, while not being swayed in my personal integrity.

I still had to unlearn a lot of habits when I got to engineering school, where political correctness is not needed and has no value, only the truth and knowing the material. But at least I was able to swim through the public system. I grieve for those with much to contribute who were hurt because they lacked a certain political instinct for self-preservation. And it's gotten much worse now, more insidious, the administrations are far more aggressive and, well, evil.

Originally posted by oniongrass
Those don't sound terribly serious to me at that age. Kids I knew did that and worse around that age and were able to moderate their behavior as the stakes rose later on.

Oniongrass,

This is almost the same reply I would get from "professional counselors" when discussing my son's behavior. I say they were extremely serious things and everybody around me said, "Bah! He's just being a boy!". My "boy" is sitting in prison and I wonder what they would make of it all now. Would that someone had taken me serious and given me some direction have changed things? I hope you never have to deal with the frustration we went through of just trying to get help if your child or children are in the same position. Seeing as I can now look back and say, "There was/is a problem.", I'd say just those few incidents I posted should require a person to rethink how terribly serious things were out of hand. Your post was kind of a slap in the face after I explained your reply was what everybody gave me when things could have been changed. When a family is screaming out for help and they get only silence nothing good can come of it.

Your reply has made me a bit angry so I'll stop with what I've written.

reply to post by aero56


To be honest?

Beat Down.

No other way. Old days it worked. Humans don't evolve in half a century.

I think what disturbs me the most about this, is that I'm not surprised at all.
The problem is that these kids think they are entitled. This new generation of parents constantly tell their children how special they are, and they interpret misbehavior as if it were artistic expression. I'll admit, I can understand the philosophy of building up your child's self esteem, but not to the point where they think any behavior they participate in should be praised.
If anything, these kids need a reality-check. They need to know they are not as special as they think. Of course I'm not advocating tearing these kids down: but some kids need exactly that. They need to develop a little bit of humility.

Of course my comment isn't providing any new insights, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

reply to post by xFloggingMaryx


I was a troubled kid sometimes, and it got very bad in High School. I had a few "reality Checks" in school but honestly, I learned it make myself better. And I get anger feelings looking back at myself.

However I'd call myself an exception. And to be honest, I really do believe some sort of minor physical violence is the only way to get through some people's minds. Most parents do do that, and as a result, the PC schools, they feel they can let loose. It's their freedom. However, they should learn that there is no freedom for the anarchist. Freedom is a right based on your giving other's freedoms.

Of course, if it was up to me, you wouldn't have classes. You'd have 1-5 student in a room with a teacher, learning or getting kicked out. And when there's only 5 or so people in a room, it's much brutal. That's your pack.

Originally posted by SolidPhantom

Originally posted by oniongrass
Those don't sound terribly serious to me at that age. Kids I knew did that and worse around that age and were able to moderate their behavior as the stakes rose later on.

________________________________________
Oniongrass,

This is almost the same reply I would get from "professional counselors" when discussing my son's behavior. I say they were extremely serious things and everybody around me said, "Bah! He's just being a boy!". My "boy" is sitting in prison and I wonder what they would make of it all now. Would that someone had taken me serious and given me some direction have changed things? I hope you never have to deal with the frustration we went through of just trying to get help if your child or children are in the same position. Seeing as I can now look back and say, "There was/is a problem.", I'd say just those few incidents I posted should require a person to rethink how terribly serious things were out of hand. Your post was kind of a slap in the face after I explained your reply was what everybody gave me when things could have been changed. When a family is screaming out for help and they get only silence nothing good can come of it.

Your reply has made me a bit angry so I'll stop with what I've written.

I'm sorry. If the kids who I knew, who acted up at that age, had been put in the juvenile justice system for it, they might have turned out much worse than they did. So I'm just going by my experience. But as far as I know their parents didn't cry out for help either. If help is asked for, it should be available.

Perhaps they didn't know how to help. To them, apparently things didn't look too serious. You had an intuition perhaps that this case was serious. But then, did they have tools to help? What should they have done? If you don't know, perhaps they didn't either.

You're looking for something you should have done differently. Two comments: (1) you could not redo it now just as if you were doing it then, even though you can perhaps do other things now (no particular ideas, just a general comment there), and (2) you would then have a way to blame yourself. You don't need that. There's probably nothing to blame you for.

He is his own man. What he did, he (not you) did. He's responsible for it, and he can get himself out of the fix he's in now. And I'm sure he can.

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
reply to post by Iamherefornow

 

Don't get me wrong i'm all for discipline if needed, and like I said kids are different so therefore need different parenting styles, but I can assure you i'v never hit my mother or father, I don't throw baby fits, and i'v been spanked twice in my life. So like I said it depends on the kid. But my point is grounding a child and punishing it is one thing, I have no problems with spankings, but beating a child is a whole different story!

I do have a problem with physical punishment. I remember those kids that got the wooden paddle in front of the classroom and I swore, if even one teacher ever touched my child, there would be hell to pay. I believe it's more than one problem, but the public educational system is not compatible with all students. Those that don't mind a rigid and mostly inflexible system and never open their mouths will be fine.

It's a mad world! I think that statement sums it up. I do think it is a parenting issue and the educational system both. I also think that many parents look back and say-I'm going to do it differently than my parents, but they were not taught the patience and skills to do just that, so their children are undisciplined. Sometimes parents can over-discipline too. The boys I see that are constant rule-breakers are the ones with parents that believe in physical punishment and have no patience for child rearing. The stress level is another factor. Many times it's a control issue. I think it's all going to come to a head eventually, because mankind holds the key to Hades.

I

Originally posted by PinkAndBlack
It's not their fault you're an authoritative figurehead in a fascist prison machine that manufactures our youth into perfectly shaped cogs built to replace the old corroding ones once they crumble and wither away.

edit on 15-1-2011 by PinkAndBlack because: lu

This ^^^^^

I think the problem lies in the media and what values it imparts upon our children while us parents are busy putting food on the table. Watch MTV or any other young-person oriented network and you ill quickly see the repeating themes. Being a rebel is "cool". Not taking crap from anybody while in the presence of your "friends" makes you a bad-ass. These kids just don't understand that while to each other they may seem "cool", to the rest of us they just look like spoiled little #s who need to be taught a lesson sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by JosephJohnson

Originally posted by PinkAndBlack
It's not their fault you're an authoritative figurehead in a fascist prison machine that manufactures our youth into perfectly shaped cogs built to replace the old corroding ones once they crumble and wither away.

edit on 15-1-2011 by PinkAndBlack because: lu

This ^^^^^

I think the problem lies in the media and what values it imparts upon our children while us parents are busy putting food on the table. Watch MTV or any other young-person oriented network and you ill quickly see the repeating themes. Being a rebel is "cool". Not taking crap from anybody while in the presence of your "friends" makes you a bad-ass. These kids just don't understand that while to each other they may seem "cool", to the rest of us they just look like spoiled little #s who need to be taught a lesson sooner rather than later.

Thats right sometimes a boot up the ass is the only way to get through to them

Im pretty sure this has been happening for awhile now...when i was in middle school it was just as bad, had people bringing in porno mags instead of text books lol

but were talking about pre teens here...most of those kids are now maturing and becomin a helping hand in society, you cant just act like these kids will be like this there whole lives its called maturing almost everyone goes through it.

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by unityemissions

 

And why is the education geared to the "lowest common denominator"? It's called "No Child Left Behind". One size does not fit all. In order for all students to be given a chance at passing, the standards are set lower. This isn't the fault of the teachers, but our government had a lot to do with this, what was his name?

My apologies, I wasn't trying to come down on all of the teachers, though I do feel that some were really bad at their job. Others were great, but this was the exception from what I observed. I agree, it's the "No Child Left Behind" policy, and the change directors of decades past.

The tension seemed to be high in both the students who didn't fit into the mold, and the teachers who seemed to struggle internally between truly wanting to teach, and being stuck with material that didn't allow them or the child to sprout in one's abilities.

What ticked me off most was that the IQ test clearly showed my aptitude being in the gifted range in several sections, while being in the average or even below average range in a couple others. Because my composite score didn't quite reach the mark, I was stuck in the regular school system instead of going to the gifted school. I begged my parents to send me to a private school, but they couldn't afford it when I was growing up. We should be focusing on what most interests the individual, and allow students to master these sections without having to do that which doesn't truly help them out. That's just my opinion, though.

Is anyone surprised? The generation having kids are the same one that is letting the gtovernment get out of control... I am part of this generation and I see it all the time. It goes the same way with government as with the kids. It starts out with something bad being done and instead of it being corrected, its like well they could be doing worse. The next time it is worse and the parent (and voter) sit back and say well at least they aren't as bad as so and so.

Our generation is spineless... I know a lot of people will jump on and say no I am not and I am sure that is true, but as a whole instead of taking responsibility and correcting things we sit back and say well it could be worse... Or at least they aren't as bad as blah, blah... We are the no action, excuse making generation. The only good thing that I can see coming from this is that maybe the next generation, the one that currently will not stand for what they think is suppression may just be the ones to stand up and save us all.

I know that goes against thinking but it is true. We have all been blind followers for too long. Don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for the teachers, students and administration that is having to deal with this "rebelion" but we can't blame the kids.Genetics haven't changed, at least not enough to explain all of this. Looking at it from a psychological stand point it is amazing!! This is nature vs. nurture playing out before our very eyes.

Kids are starting to think for themselves and question what they are being told. If our generation had done this we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. I am very interested in seeing what happens when these kids get older... Will they continue to question everything or will they eventually be brainwashed into the "it could be worse" mindset of thier parents.

when i was in middle school i was one of a few 'so called ''class terrors''
its called being a kid. I had a problem with authority, especially authority (which in my mind) either abused their authority, did not know how to sensibly excersise it or i just found that a teacher/sup[ply teacher was not worthy to teach. Thing is, i have always been extremely logical. I never (apart from a few times) directly went out of my way to cause disruption (talking doesnt count, that excuse is, in my opinion totalitarianistic, controllive and plain opressive) (unless the talking is DURING the teacher talking, or an exam)

conformity to the state starts in school, and i was pretty lucky that a lot of my class were non-conformists.

PROTIP: disobedience (not disrespect) to authority is a good thing, deal with it.

====
EDIT
====

basically the way it used to go, is i would talk, the teacher would demand that i be quiet, then i would present a flawless logical argument as to why there is no problem with me talking. I never once raise my voice, but eventually the teacher collapses into a raving rant, as their opressive control is taken away from them through truth of words.

the smart teachers understood and recognised me for the type of person i am, and treated me respectfull and i in turn treated them respectfully. I had nio problems in those classes

....

but boy oh boy, you should've been in classes with me when the overly religious, support teacher was in. She was like an old-school, shink she knows it all, religion spouter, opressing nitwit. She would call people ''blasphemers'' for making any referances such as ''bloody hell'' or ''christ'' (work related)

simply, i caused her to have a mental breakdown, just by sitting and logically talking with her, she started running around screaming and flipping tables, while i sat there, coolly.

Truly great teachers inspire and motivate their students. If anything has changed I would wager it is the type of teacher the average student deals with these days. I know good teachers and I know of bad teachers, and their experience of the same group of students is wildly different. Kids are kids.